April 2003 - NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Netforum 2003
by Roger De Salis 09 Apr '03

09 Apr '03

Gentlefolks, Please find attached a brochure for Netforum 2003. Please note that the extremely strong ISP component will be augmented with additional stuff. The program will likely be moved around a little such that Joe Abley, Ben Martel and Barry Raveendren Greene will be interleaved in such a manner that those specifically interested in the ISP management and design stuff can see it all, rather than having to choose between competing talks. I look forward to meeting you all there... Rgds Roger De Salis -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)fx.net.nz </' FX Networks +64 25 481 452 /) Wellington, New Zealand roger(a)desalis.gen.nz (/ ` DSL - the 56k modem technology of 2004

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 09 Apr '03

09 Apr '03

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. NZNOG held a face to face gathering as part of the UniForum NZ conference in 2002, and is to do the same again from 10-12 July this year. See http://www.uniforum.org.nz/conference 2003/conference.html for details, but note that the NZNOG schedule there is well short of final. NZNOG doesn't hold other national face to face meetings, but see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Auckland Peering Exchange See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. About This Mailing List This list has around 470 addresses subscribed, increasing by around twenty a month at present. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins -- Donald Neal | piano - a musical Technical Specialist | shipping line. Network Delivery | [ Graeme Garden ] Telecom Corp. NZ Ltd | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Bogon update 60/8 and 223/8
by Rob Thomas 08 Apr '03

08 Apr '03

[ Apologies to those who have received this post in other fora. ] IANA has received 223/8 *from* APNIC, and allocated 60/8 *to* APNIC. Thus 223/8 reverts to RESERVED (bogon) status and 60/8 moves to ALLOCATED status. The numerous Team Cymru bogon projects have been updated to reflect the following IANA allocation on April 08, 2003: 60/8 Apr 03 APNIC 223/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved NOTE WELL: This post includes an allocation and a DE-ALLOCATION. Please be sure to adjust your filters accordingly. IANA allocations change over time, so please check regularly to ensure you have the latest filters. The use of the bogon route-server will automate these updates for you and your network (see below). We do announce updates to the bogon projects to the FIRST community, as well as on lists such as NANOG, isp-routing, isp-security, isp-bgp, cisco-nsp, and bogon-announce. We can not stress this point strongly enough - these allocations change. If you do not adjust your filters, you will be unable to access perhaps large portions of the Internet. Worse yet, you may end up blocking access for people who transit through you. Please do not blindly apply any filters or blocks to your network without carefully considering the ramifications of doing so. As a point of reference, the master Bogon Reference Page can be found here: <http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/index.html> A quick summary of the documents and projects that have been updated include the following: HTTP <http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/> The Bogon List The Text Bogon List, Unaggregated The Text Bogon List, Aggregated Secure BIND Template Secure IOS Template (Cisco) Secure BGP Template (Cisco) Secure JUNOS Template (Juniper) Secure JUNOS BGP Template (Juniper) Ingress Prefix Filter Templates, Loose and Strict (Cisco) Ingress Prefix Filter Template, Loose and Strict (Juniper) BGP <http://www.cymru.com/BGP/bogon-rs.html> Bogon route-server[*] RADb <http://www.radb.net/cgi-bin/radb/whois.cgi?obj=fltr-bogons> <http://www.radb.net/cgi-bin/radb/whois.cgi?obj=fltr-unallocated> <http://www.radb.net/cgi-bin/radb/whois.cgi?obj=fltr-martian> fltr-unallocated fltr-martian fltr-bogons DNS <http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/index.html#dns> Bogon (bogons.cymru.com) zone Monitoring <http://www.cymru.com/BGP/> Bogon prefix monitoring [*] All of the bogon peers have received the appropriate BGP prefix updates. Please feel free to contact Team Cymru with any comments, questions, or concerns. Thanks! Rob, for Team Cymru. -- Team Cymru http://www.cymru.com/About/teamcymru.html ASSERT(coffee != empty);

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RE: [nznog] vISP
by Steve Phillips 08 Apr '03

08 Apr '03

Before I start, I believe this to be on topic as it pertains to some that are on this list. While strictly speaking not a 'NOG' issue, using 'marketing' under the guise of 'it cuts down chatter' or 'needless questions' is IMHO not something that should make it onto a list that is here for technical discussion - sure, answer the post, but keep it technical. At 12:20 7/04/2003, Seeby Woodhouse wrote: >My apologies to Steve and others that may hold similar views that my >post was inappropriate. I am sure that "sorry" means "I wont do it again" - so I expect that this will be the case. >My resons for copying the list were: >- There are obviously people subscribed to the list interested in VISP >services that haven't yet heard of us, hence a reply to the person >concerned as well as the list will save future queries. "Orcon does it" - hmm, stopping future enquiries by sending people directly to you as the first stop ? sounds markedly like marketing to me. >- There are a lot of Orcon staff members subscribed to NZNOG, and >multiple people may have replied to this person if they hadn't seen a >post from me. I'm sure you are more than capable of contacting your own staff (BCC works wonders to an all-staff mailing list) and replying to the person enquiring without even touching this list. >I only post very occasionally, and although my post was promoting >Orcon's services, I felt that it was on topic. And it appears that anytime i see you 'post' something it is either defending Orcon after they screwed up or trying to market your company in the wrong forums. >Steve - I feel just as strongly as you about keeping posts relevant in >NZNOG, but if every time someone posts something that a competitor feels >is a 'plug' or of marginal value, they get publically dragged through >the coals for it, then: This was not marginal - it was against the reasons this list was set up. This is a technical list, not a "come buy off me" list. >A) people are going to be afraid to post articles that could be relevant >to NZNOG unless they are totally sure of relevance and ISP neutrality. And possibly this should be the case - the NOG is a group of operators, we post things that are of relevance to everyone, not simply random drivel that we _think_ might interest people. The people that are members of this list and _do_ actually post usually do so in a neutral way - with the occasional dig thrown in as this is a friendly group (as a whole) and we do know each other and their respective trades/affiliations. >B) The number of 'flame' posts critisizing people for their posts will >keep outnumbering the actual posts, which is just a waste of everyone's >time. (this is now the 4th post on this thread, when it could have >stopped at two, as only the first two were relevant) >In future, if you don't like my posts, then email me privately as I will >take your comments on board. This I thought long about - I _was_ going to e-mail you privately, but then no one else would get the benefit of understanding why they just got told off for posting their own random drivel as "but Seeby did it and got away with it x years ago !" And as for the 'flames out numbering the posts' - surely this could be a warning to someone that actually starts to post with a biased opinion on an apparently 'unbiased' list ? And as for taking comments on board' that's cool - since when have you actually _acted_ on these comments ? you used to do this same thing on usenet over and over despite people _publicly_ telling you not to. It appears that you simply don't listen. >Personally - I am happy to receive emails from other NZNOG members that >are of borderline relevance, because it all helps to fit together the >jigsaw of what is happening in the industry, and I want know what is >going on, and who we're up against, If I didn't like the sort of posts >that people are putting up, then I'd unsubscribe. That's great, we are happy that you are happy, however, I am rather unhappy that when i post responses to peoples queries such as this I try my hardest to ensure that I in no way bias the user toward the company I work for, If I really believe that we offer the only service of this nature then I will tend to reply in private or simply post a "please contact me off list" type post - it actually makes me quite angry when someone else puts forward resources that are hijacked by some marketing drone who feels that simply because the resource is there they have some innate right to pollute everyone's mailboxen with their marketing drivel. Now, some constructive criticism to take on board. When replying to this post, you could have mentioned the other ISP's that offer VISP's, you could also have mentioned that many other ISP's would be more than willing to help setup a VISP were they being paid for it (setup costs and consulting possibly) To mention a few ISP's VISP/E3/ICONZ Morenet Ihug Attica Orcon and possibly Paradise There are also a large number of ex ISP staff that know pretty much everything there is to know about setting up an ISP and would be more than willing to offer their services to assist and advise on setups/costs etc and could also be there to offer ongoing support should you require it. (reading archives will show some names up) These all offer differing plans for telehousing/co-location should you wish to own and operate your own servers and could assist in setups, licensing fee's, backboning current infrastructure and some can even lease equipment to you and/or give you virtual space on their own managed systems. They pretty much all have account managers that you can contact for things like this and you would probably find that they will bend over backwards to have you on board. As for reputations - just look about the Internet and ask people that you know that are in the internet business how the various companies conduct themselves - also, don't forget that you are able to ask for 'reference customers' from most organisations that will put you in contact with someone that will tell you what the overall experience has been like. Starting a VISP may seem 'easy' but there should be a lot of work involved before you choose which provider to go with, and don't be scared of doing a little ground work before you make the final decision. <end example> Seeby, you should know better, infact, I _know_ that you know better and just like to push the boundaries of what's acceptable - Someday I sincerely hope it comes back to kick you in the posterior -- Steve.

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RE: [nznog] vISP
by Seeby Woodhouse 07 Apr '03

07 Apr '03

My apologies to Steve and others that may hold similar views that my post was inappropriate. My resons for copying the list were: - There are obviously people subscribed to the list interested in VISP services that haven't yet heard of us, hence a reply to the person concerned as well as the list will save future queries. - There are a lot of Orcon staff members subscribed to NZNOG, and multiple people may have replied to this person if they hadn't seen a post from me. I only post very occasionally, and although my post was promoting Orcon's services, I felt that it was on topic. Steve - I feel just as strongly as you about keeping posts relevant in NZNOG, but if every time someone posts something that a competitor feels is a 'plug' or of marginal value, they get publically dragged through the coals for it, then: A) people are going to be afraid to post articles that could be relevant to NZNOG unless they are totally sure of relevance and ISP neutrality. B) The number of 'flame' posts critisizing people for their posts will keep outnumbering the actual posts, which is just a waste of everyone's time. (this is now the 4th post on this thread, when it could have stopped at two, as only the first two were relevant) In future, if you don't like my posts, then email me privately as I will take your comments on board. Personally - I am happy to receive emails from other NZNOG members that are of borderline relevance, because it all helps to fit together the jigsaw of what is happening in the industry, and I want know what is going on, and who we're up against, If I didn't like the sort of posts that people are putting up, then I'd unsubscribe. Cheers Seeby Woodhouse Orcon Internet Ltd - www.orcon.net.nz Ph +64-9-444-4414 Fax +64-9-444-4444 Mob +64-21-366-666 > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Phillips [mailto:steve(a)focb.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2003 6:57 a.m. > To: NZNOG Mailing List (NZNOG Mailing List) > Subject: RE: [nznog] vISP > > > Was it really necessary to reply to the list like this Seeby ? > > This sort of marketing thing should be kept off list - a simple "yes, > contact me off list for details" would have sufficed. > > (but then you already know this as you have been told > repeatedly about this > sort of thing in various forums over the past two to three > years _at least_) > > I guess this would mean that Orcon doesn't fit at least one > of his criteria > then, an ISP that SPAMs to sell its own services could hardly > be called > "reputable" > > > -- > Steve. > > At 20:07 6/04/2003, Seeby Woodhouse wrote: > >Hi there Neo > > > >I notice that you are a HyperNet user. > >Orcon purchased HyperNet a while ago - so you're already a > customer of > >ours. Currently Orcon is the largest VISP provider / ISP > wholesaler in > >NZ We supply around 40 ISP's in NZ with VISP style services, and a > >couple in Australia. > > > >Talk to us and we can simply add VISP services onto your > existing bill > >:-) > >(pretty much) > > > >The person you need to contact is Patrick Sharp > (patrick(a)orcon.net.nz) > >he's our VISP account manager and he can tell you everything > you need > >to know.. > > > >Cheers > > > >Seeby Woodhouse > >Orcon Internet Ltd - www.orcon.net.nz > >Ph +64-9-444-4414 Fax +64-9-444-4444 Mob +64-21-366-666 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: neo [mailto:neo(a)hyper.net.nz] > > > Sent: Sunday, 6 April 2003 6:58 p.m. > > > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > Subject: [nznog] vISP > > > > > > > > > Does anyone provide reasonable priced vISP type packages? > Providing > > > your an honest entity and capable of providing a quality, if not, > > > standard service. > > > > > > neo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Nznog mailing list > > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Nznog mailing list > >Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > -- > Steve Phillips > Professional Slacker > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version: 3.1 > GIT/CS/CC d- s+:- a- C++++(---)$ UL++++$ UB++++$ US++++$ > UC++++$ P+ L+++$ > E- W-(+) N+$ w$ O V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP++ t+@ 5+++ tv++ b+ G e+>* > h r--- z+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To decode see > http://www.ebb.org/ungeek/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog >

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RE: [nznog] vISP
by Steve Phillips 07 Apr '03

07 Apr '03

Was it really necessary to reply to the list like this Seeby ? This sort of marketing thing should be kept off list - a simple "yes, contact me off list for details" would have sufficed. (but then you already know this as you have been told repeatedly about this sort of thing in various forums over the past two to three years _at least_) I guess this would mean that Orcon doesn't fit at least one of his criteria then, an ISP that SPAMs to sell its own services could hardly be called "reputable" -- Steve. At 20:07 6/04/2003, Seeby Woodhouse wrote: >Hi there Neo > >I notice that you are a HyperNet user. >Orcon purchased HyperNet a while ago - so you're already a customer of >ours. >Currently Orcon is the largest VISP provider / ISP wholesaler in NZ >We supply around 40 ISP's in NZ with VISP style services, and a couple >in Australia. > >Talk to us and we can simply add VISP services onto your existing bill >:-) >(pretty much) > >The person you need to contact is Patrick Sharp (patrick(a)orcon.net.nz) >he's our VISP account manager and he can tell you everything you need to >know.. > >Cheers > >Seeby Woodhouse >Orcon Internet Ltd - www.orcon.net.nz >Ph +64-9-444-4414 Fax +64-9-444-4444 Mob +64-21-366-666 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: neo [mailto:neo(a)hyper.net.nz] > > Sent: Sunday, 6 April 2003 6:58 p.m. > > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Subject: [nznog] vISP > > > > > > Does anyone provide reasonable priced vISP type packages? > > Providing your an honest entity and capable of providing a > > quality, if not, standard service. > > > > neo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > >_______________________________________________ >Nznog mailing list >Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- Steve Phillips Professional Slacker -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT/CS/CC d- s+:- a- C++++(---)$ UL++++$ UB++++$ US++++$ UC++++$ P+ L+++$ E- W-(+) N+$ w$ O V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP++ t+@ 5+++ tv++ b+ G e+>* h r--- z+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ To decode see http://www.ebb.org/ungeek/

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New IANA IPv4 DE-allocations and bogon updates
by Rob Thomas 06 Apr '03

06 Apr '03

[ Apologies to those who have received this post in other fora. ] The numerous Team Cymru bogon projects have been updated to reflect the following IANA DE-allocations on April 05, 2003: 173/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 174/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 175/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 176/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 177/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 178/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 179/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 180/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 181/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 182/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 183/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 184/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 185/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 186/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 187/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 189/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved 190/8 Apr 03 IANA - Reserved Note well: These are IP DE-allocations which increases the number of Bogon networks! Also note that 188/8 is NOT part of the list above. IANA allocations change over time, so please check regularly to ensure you have the latest filters if you are not using the bogon BGP feed(s). We do announce updates to the bogon projects to the FIRST community, as well as on lists such as NANOG, isp-routing, isp-security, isp-bgp, cisco-nsp, and bogon-announce. We can not stress this point strongly enough - these allocations change. If you do not adjust your filters, you will be unable to access perhaps large portions of the Internet. Worse yet, you may end up blocking access for people who transit through you. Please do not blindly apply any filters or blocks to your network without carefully considering the ramifications of doing so. As a point of reference, the master Bogon Reference Page can be found here: http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/index.html A quick summary of the documents and projects that have been updated include the following: HTTP The Bogon List The Text Bogon List, Unaggregated The Text Bogon List, Aggregated Secure BIND Template Secure IOS Template (Cisco) Secure BGP Template (Cisco) Secure JUNOS Template (Juniper) Secure JUNOS BGP Template (Juniper) Ingress Prefix Filter Templates, Loose and Strict (Cisco) Ingress Prefix Filter Template, Loose (Juniper) Ingress Prefix Filter Template, Strict (Juniper) BGP Bogon route-server * RADb fltr-unallocated fltr-martian fltr-bogons DNS Bogon (bogons.cymru.com) zone Monitoring Bogon prefix monitoring * All of the bogon peers have received the appropriate BGP prefix updates. Please feel free to contact Team Cymru with any comments, questions, or concerns. Thanks! Rob, for Team Cymru. [http://www.cymru.com/About/teamcymru.html] -- Rob Thomas http://www.cymru.com ASSERT(coffee != empty);

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vISP
by neo 06 Apr '03

06 Apr '03

Does anyone provide reasonable priced vISP type packages? Providing your an honest entity and capable of providing a quality, if not, standard service. neo

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New IANA IPv4 allocations and bogon updates
by Rob Thomas 04 Apr '03

04 Apr '03

Hi, NZNOG folks. [ Apologies to those who have received this post in other fora. ] The numerous Team Cymru bogon projects have been updated to reflect the following IANA allocation on April 04, 2003: 201/8 Apr 03 LACNIC (whois.lacnic.net) IANA allocations change over time, so please check regularly to ensure you have the latest filters if you are not using the bogon BGP feed(s). We do announce updates to the bogon projects to the FIRST community, as well as on lists such as NANOG, isp-routing, isp-security, isp-bgp, cisco-nsp, and bogon-announce. We can not stress this point strongly enough - these allocations change. If you do not adjust your filters, you will be unable to access perhaps large portions of the Internet. Worse yet, you may end up blocking access for people who transit through you. Please do not blindly apply any filters or blocks to your network without carefully considering the ramifications of doing so. As a point of reference, the master Bogon Reference Page can be found here: http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/index.html A quick summary of the documents and projects that have been updated include the following: HTTP The Bogon List The Text Bogon List, Unaggregated The Text Bogon List, Aggregated Secure BIND Template Secure IOS Template (Cisco) Secure BGP Template (Cisco) Secure JUNOS Template (Juniper) Secure JUNOS BGP Template (Juniper) Ingress Prefix Filter Templates, Loose and Strict (Cisco) Ingress Prefix Filter Template, Loose and Strict (Juniper) BGP Bogon route-server * RADb fltr-unallocated fltr-martian fltr-bogons DNS Bogon (bogons.cymru.com) zone Monitoring Bogon prefix monitoring * All of the bogon peers have received the appropriate BGP prefix updates. Please feel free to contact Team Cymru with any comments, questions, or concerns. Thanks! Rob, for Team Cymru. [http://www.cymru.com/About/teamcymru.html] -- Rob Thomas http://www.cymru.com ASSERT(coffee != empty);

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Fwd: [public-consult] Geek.nz up for submissions
by Robert McDonald 02 Apr '03

02 Apr '03

FYI ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [public-consult] Geek.nz up for submissions Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:25:23 +1200 From: "Gavin Lambert" <gavinl(a)compacsort.com> To: <public-consult(a)internetnz.net.nz> I'm a little surprised there hasn't been an official announcement on this list; or perhaps there has and I just missed it somehow. Anyway, for those like me that hadn't heard before, the proposal for geek.nz has now entered the "Request for Submissions" phase. More details can be found at: http://www.dnc.org.nz/story/30107-30-1.html _______________________________________________ public-consult mailing list public-consult(a)internetnz.net.nz http://listserver.internetnz.net.nz/mailman/listinfo/public-consult ------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------- Robert McDonald NZPages.Net Web Services Ph: 021 1770061 ICQ: 86984875 http://www.nzpages.net

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