December 2006 - NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

list.waikato.ac.nz Has Moved
by Donald Neal 11 Dec '24

11 Dec '24

NZNOG-People, I have just finished migrating all of the mailing lists held at The University of Waikato from one server to another. I don't have any reason to believe that anything's gone wrong, but please bear with me for today if it turns out that something has. - Donald Neal -- Donald Neal | Q: How many Aucklanders does it take to change Systems Programmer/Analyst | a light bulb? The University of Waikato | A: Pass me that candle and I'll tell you. Hamilton, New Zealand | --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

4 3

RE: Sort of OT: are there any "Internet enabled" temperature sens ors/servers for Auckland?
by Greg Clare 18 Aug '21

18 Aug '21

May not be exactly what you are after? However DSE have an Internet weather station at the Albany HQ. http://www.dse.gen.nz/public/webdata/weather.htm Regards Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] > Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2002 2:47 pm > To: NZNOG > Subject: Sort of OT: are there any "Internet enabled" temperature > sensors/servers for Auckland? > > > Measuring the outside temperature, with geographic location given. > > -- > Juha > Take off every sig! > > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog > - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

Charging for IPv6
by Philip D'Ath 24 Aug '08

24 Aug '08

Initially those transit providers and ISPs that do offer IPv6 transit will be able to charge for this service as it will be a premium value add. However I can't see this business model being able to last for more than 6 years (through to 2012), and possibly only three years. After this point in time I expect IPv6 deployment will be standard, and will no longer be a premium service offering - it will be the standard offering, like IPv4 is today. Once IPv4 has become exhausted and you can't actually give a customer an IPv4 address then you definitely wont be able to charge more for IPv6 - otherwise the customer will walk. So do providers start implementing slowly now, and recoup some of their investment while they can, or wait till they are forced to do the upgrades and are not able to recoup any of their "new" investment. Rhetorical question.

23 40

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 31 Dec '07

31 Dec '07

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. Meetings Our next annual conference is to be hosted by the WAND group in Hamilton on February 2nd to 4th, 2005. See http://www.nznog.org/ for more information, including the Call For Presentations. Offers to present are due in by 22nd October, and all presenters should have had their acceptance confirmed by 31st October. Also see http://auckland.thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near Auckland or Wellington. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators, not by most customers. Internet Exchanges See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. See http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the Wellington Internet Exchange. About This Mailing List This list has slightly over 700 addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. You may choose to receive postings as they come in, or just to receive daily "digests". See the bottom of the page http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog/ to change the form in which you receive postings. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by employees of Alcatel NZ Ltd, Citylink and Telecom. None of these organisations, nor any administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/pipermail/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrators remain happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. One way to search the archive is to use google and prefix your search with site:list.waikato.ac.nz . Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins Donald Neal |Palmersdale: Are you in charge here? Technical Specialist |The Doctor: No, but I'm full of Operations Engineering | ideas. Integration & Services Division +----------------------- Alcatel NZ Ltd - Telecom's network operations manager ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 16

Bus/Train to NZNOG
by Joel van Velden 14 Jan '07

14 Jan '07

Hi all The idea was floated at last weeks Curry in Auckland about hiring a bus to travel to NZNOG, as there would possibly be quite a number of people between Auckland and Palmerston North interested in a less stressful and cheaper means of getting there. I have no idea of what numbers would be required at this stage or what the cost would be. Obviously it would be cheaper than flying, but take longer to get there. The other alternative might be to group-book the train, which has tables, not sure about AC power, you can walk around, is apparently newly-refurbished, but probably takes a little longer than a bus, and possibly more expensive. Is anyone is interested? Contacting me off-list would be best. Regards, Joel van Velden

4 3

Re: [nznog] Telstra's Outage
by jdmwoolley＠ihug.co.nz 01 Jan '07

01 Jan '07

Steve Wray wrote: > Redundancy isn't really what I mean; more > forward-thinking. So if a TelstraClear engineer thought about it really hard the truck would have missed the fibre? Personally, I don't think the power of prayer is a valid network protection scheme. Though when I used to work there, it was useful on occassion ;) > From what I've heard out of Telstra people -- and > thats just the faults and 'helpdesk' people, the > attitude seems to be that a 'truck hitting a > pole' is not something that could have been > foreseen and that therefore there was no point in > having a contingency plan to deal with it. > > To me, this just seems wrong-headed. > > My question for Telstra is, was there a plan? How > well did it work out? > If they didn't have a plan or if it didn't work out > well, how are they going to address this in future? > And the answers I've been getting back from Telstra > people are rather disconcerting. A quick talk about how things are done in a Telco may be in order. 1. You need money to do everything. This includes laying fibre, writing plans and taking a toilet break. 2. There are two types of money to be spent - OPEX and CAPEX (OPerational expenditure and CAPital expenditure). 3. OPEX is evil. Accountants see it as a black hole that money is thrown down. It is not an investment. It is paying some guy for something you already own. OPEX is constantly cut. Many things that should be done as OPEX are classed as CAPEX by squinting your eyes and with the aid of smoke and mirrors. 4. CAPEX is ok - it is investing money in something with the expectation of a return at some point in time. Dig a hole, lay a cable, charge people to use it, eventually they've paid you more than it cost you to lay - this is CAPEX. You need a business case to spend CAPEX. This will consist of all likely and unlikely costs and revenues; and consequently a best, worst and expected-case return on investment. If the company thinks this is the best way to spend it's money it will do it. If it thinks it can make a larger profit or the same profit in a shorter time frame elsewhere it will do that. This is The Way It Works(tm) for a Telco and most businesses. If you can write a business case showing that getting 1000 monks in Tibet to pray for the safety of TelstrClear's network will turn a profit then they will do it. If prayer wasn't what you meant by "forward-thinking", and redundancy wasn't it then I'm at a loss. What else could they do? Not lay the fibre there? That location was probably the place that brought the best return on investment to justify the CAPEX. Could there have been a better place to put it - probably. Do companies have the time to second guess every decision made? Or will someone else beat you to the punch if you do that? Sorry for the massive rant, but berating a company, any company, for doing their best to fix a fault caused by some truck driver who was likely high on P at the time just seems like cynical people trying to complain about nothing to me. Sure, if you were one of the people affected it must've really sucked. In the end them's the breaks. On a lighter note, Merry Christmas to everyone - try to shake off the cynicism and anger that accumulated through the year at the beach this summer! Jonathan

5 5

Virus alert
by Lesley Walker 28 Dec '06

28 Dec '06

Looks like there's a new email worm/virus epidemic on the go. We've quarantined over 1100 incoming emails since 2pm, and we normally only get a trickle. ClamAV reports "postcard.exe contains Trojan.Downloader-388", and the subject line is "Happy New Year". Just what we all need. :-( Lesley W (Happy to be running Ubuntu)

3 2

Re: [nznog] Telstra's Outage
by Steve Wray 28 Dec '06

28 Dec '06

(sorry about lack of threading etc, I clipped the text out of the web-based archive) Jonathan wrote: > David Robinson wrote: >> >> "For a start, it takes more than two fibre cuts in the > North Island to >> disrupt us" >> >> And also remember back early in the year when one slip on the Hutt >> motorway took out all services in Wellington. >> >> What is so wrong with Telstra's network that single events can affect >> so many people, when supposable it takes more than two fibre cuts to >> disrupt them? > > This post you've quoted was related to the core network - > i.e. the bits that connect Wellington to Auckland etc. This > is a fault in the access network i.e. the bit that connects > Mary and Bob (or in this case Kandallah) to the core > network. NO operator has full redundancy in the access > network for residential services. What amazes me is that Telstra maintain that a truck hitting a pole was a *completely* unforseeable event and that even in retrospect they could not have been expected to have forseen that *one* *day* a truck would hit a 'single-point-of-failure pole' and that they could not have been expected to have planned for it. I ask you, is that really reasonable? I thought that engineers were the types of folk would look at diagrams of such a network and say: "well this pole is a single point of failure and its right by a road. Sooner or later its going to get hit by something, we'd better plan for that". I don't get the feeling that TC *had* planned for it... though maybe they did and if they hadn't planned for it we'd be disconnected till the new year... Insights anyone? Also, is there anywhere which keeps a log of outages experienced by NZ ISP's, how long they last etc? Thanks

4 4

Connection reliability (was Re: Telstra's Outage)
by Matthew Poole 21 Dec '06

21 Dec '06

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, David Robb wrote: > On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, Simon Allard wrote: > >> You can't expect good uptimes and run your business which requires high >> availability internet on a $39.95 DSL account. > > Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two. > Where Good==Reliable, I assume? Since the relative goodness of broadband products for most consumers is often associated with their fastness and cheapness, with reliability (provided one can actually pass packets, of course) being an unconsidered factor. I do agree with Dean that we know you can't reasonably expect multiple nines of reliability from a residential service, but we, as geeks, have far different expectations from the average consumer. Plus, with NZ's high incidence of home-based businesses, how many users have actually had ANY choice of carrier until quite recently? I can probably get Woosh at home, and we have a Telecom landline. What are my other choices? TCL is still delivering over TCNZ's cable, so that's a non-starter. I could maybe get hooked into Vector's fibre, though I don't think it comes quite far enough down Great South Rd. And I'm in a better position than a lot of residential users, who can't get Woosh and aren't even close to someone's fibre network. When people have no choice, is it any wonder that they expect the earth for nothing? Nobody's telling them about the limitations of the one service they can afford, and nobody's offering them anything with better reliability for a reasonable price - what would one pay for a 2Mbps frame connection that, while unquestionably giving better upstream performance, comes in, at best, at half the downstream speed of a DSL connection? Many, many multiples of $40/month, that's for sure. Total no-brainer. We can sneer at the great unwashed, but the reality is that the marketroids aren't offering anything to fill the gaping void between DSL and frame/ISDN (does anyone even use ISDN for data anymore?). PS: Why pay metric boatloads for something like frame when Telecom won't give you credit if their network fails? Nobody got a cent out of them after the rat and the errant backhoe took out much of the country for several hours, so what's the point in handing them extra? Pardon the pun. -- Matthew Poole "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."

16 20

Re: [nznog] Telstra's Outage
by Simon Allard 20 Dec '06

20 Dec '06

Actually, I think it's the other way around. The reason NZ has 3rd rate broadband, is customers expect the world for free. You can't expect good uptimes and run your business which requires high availability internet on a $39.95 DSL account. I agree with everything Dean said, and I bet I am not the only one. -----Original Message----- From: John @ netTRUST [mailto:john(a)nettrust.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 21 December 2006 11:19 a.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Telstra's Outage > Nothing used to piss me off more than the cable customer who used to > compain (without logging trouble tickets BTW) that thier home business > was losing money because their cable modem was down.... > > You buy a residential service - thats what you get. This type of arrogance from a NOC is why NZ has 3rd rate broadband. ADSL and cable are widely marketed to businesses and indeed business connections usually makes up the lions share of revenuw generated by these services. Let's hopen they keep you, and others with the same opinion, in the back room as far from customers as possible -or- put another way you should be using your l33t skills to substantally improve the reliability rather then having too much time on your hands digging for excuses. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

13 17