- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

CertPatrol - watch your certs
by Dan Langille 08 Jan '04

08 Jan '04

All this talk of SSL certificates and with the recent expired Verisign certificate reminded me of this project I worked on. CertPatrol http://www.certpatrol.com/ keeps monitors your SSL certificates. A group of us created this free service over a year ago but haven't publicized it. Until now... cheers -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/

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Net4u troublemaking and fraud Watch out!
by Michael Hallager 08 Jan '04

08 Jan '04

Watch out people. Sahil and Net4U are now manufacturing totally bogus claims (Including claiming the existance of an invoice, which I have not seen, though if it exists it amounts to fraud) against myself and possibly other former clients. He sent me three B/S claims yesterday, which I refuted all of them so he kept changing his story every time. This guy will stop at nothing to get money in any way possible including lies and threats of Baycorp or the police (I am still waiting for him to lay any allegation) for a claimed but non-existant debt. // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Something interesting
by Barry Murphy 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

I know this was spoken about and many people wondered how it could be done to share multiple internet connections for schools. I just found this to be interesting reading so here's the link... http://www.newswireless.net/articles/030120-locust.html "The impressive part is the ability to combine several broadband feeds. This is an option (it doesn't happen out of the box, but it's built in) - if there are 20 houses in the Mesh, but only four of them have broadband, all users can share all of those lines. It does add to network traffic; there's an estimated 10% increase in wireless load, says Lander. " Barry

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survey on BGP damping
by Beichuan Zhang 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

Hi, We are conducting a survey of BGP damping deployment and would greatly appreciate if you could take a few minutes to answer the following questions. There are a number of interesting results and various recommendations for damping settings. However, we have found only limited information on who does(does not) deploy damping and what parameter settings are selected in practice. If you are willing to participate, please send replies directly to us. We will collect the results (removing any private information regarding specific sites) and post the results to the list. Thanks! --- beichuan (1) Does your AS have BGP route flap damping turned on? * Yes * No (please skip to comments) (2) What damping parameters do you use? * Cisco Default * Juniper Default * RIPE recommendation * Customized (3) On which links do you enable damping? * To customers only * To providers * To peers * All the above (4) Comments Please tell us more such as: What kind of network are you managing (any specific names will be removed in the published study)? Why (why not) do you enable damping? If you enable damping, why did you choose your current parameters? Has your site seen specific problems that were prevented by damping (or caused by damping)? We welcome any other comments you feel are relevant. Thanks!

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Expired Verisign intermediate root certificate
by Matthew Poole 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

Just a warning to people who run servers with SSL certificates from Verisign, one of their intermediate root certificates expired at midnight (GMT) today. They appear to have signed SSL certs with a root which expires before the SSL cert does, causing all sorts of wonderful problems. http://www.verisign.com.au/support/carenewal/ has the new intermediate root, for people who have not yet installed it.

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FW: [members-discuss] Announcement of IPv6 Test-bed [ InternetNZ and CityLink] and the NZNOG Big Geek Program 04 28-30 Jan 2004
by Michael Sutton 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

FYI - see you all there :) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces(a)internetnz.net.nz [mailto:members-discuss-bounces(a)internetnz.net.nz] On Behalf Of Michael Sutton Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 02:09 To: InternetNZ Members Discussion List Subject: [members-discuss] Announcement of IPv6 Test-bed [ InternetNZ and CityLink] and the NZNOG Big Geek Program 04 28-30 Jan 2004 Dear Members We are proud to let you know of our joint initiative with CityLink which will see InternetNZ provide funding necessary to enable a public access IPv6/IPv4 local Gateway and a one megabit low latency link for six months between APE6 and WIX6 for non commercial testing commencing in January 2004. Please read details at: http://www.internetnz.net.nz/communications/mr040105ipv6-test-bed.htm <http://www.internetnz.net.nz/communications/mr040105ipv6-test-bed.htm> CityLink will present this in operation at the NZNOG Big Geek Program 04, hosted by Waikato University. (28-30th) 3 days ~$120 Registration (discount until 9th January) http://www.nznog.org <http://www.nznog.org> . InternetNZ is a major sponsor of this conference and I shall attend presenting the technical case for Multicast enabling the New Zealand network as well as hosting a BoF on this Topic and network InterOperability initiatives which InternetNZ has been fostering over the past 6 months. At our last Council meeting it was agreed that we would also provide upto $2,500 of educational materials for this Conference. InternetNZ has ordered and is contributing technical books on how to enable Inter Domain Multicast services using Cisco and Juniper equipment. These will be distributed to those attending the Multicast BoF. If you can attend or help your engineers get some time to join us there we would really enjoy getting together and besides Roger DeSalis is sponsoring the Bar :) Peter Macaulay will also be there with other INZ councillors as he claims lineage as a proto-geek of the '60s :) Best regards Michael Sutton Councillor 2003-2004 Technical Committee Member. +64 21 305500

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Carpool to BGP aka NZNOG04
by Lin Nah 06 Jan '04

06 Jan '04

Hi all Just a short note to let you know that if you have a seat in your car for a passenger (or more) or if you wish to find a ride to Hamilton for the meet, email carpool(a)nznog.org. I'll attempt to pair up those who need a ride with those who can give it. For those needing rides I need to know where you are. For those offering rides, I need to know where you are driving from and when you hope to get to Hamilton (ie whether you intend to be there for the tutorials on Wed or for Thurs&Fri only) Don't leave it too late. regards lin

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(slightly OT) APEC TEL ... next meeting, Hong Kong 21-26 March
by Frank March 06 Jan '04

06 Jan '04

Folks: It is about a year since I last posted on the TEL ... apologies to those whose sense of deja vu is overwhelming. The APEC Telecommunications and Information Working Group (TEL) is highly productive and has a very strong private sector presence. It is very active in online & cyber security, privacy & authentication, telecommunications policy and regulation, broadband & NGI, and in promoting international co-operative projects in areas such as electronic commerce, research and education and many other areas relevant to telecommunications and the use and promotion of ICT generally in the APEC region. The TEL meets twice yearly in different APEC economies and attracts 200 to 300 delegates drawn from most of the APEC economies of whom up to half are from non-government and private organisations. Over the past several years, the New Zealand delegation to the TEL meetings has included a number of private sector members as well as officials from government agencies. Although TEL meetings are not suited to overt marketing activities, private sector delegates have found meetings useful for making contacts and networking opportunities. There is no registration fee for APEC TEL meetings, and the costs of at least some meals are met by sponsors, however delegates are expected to meet their own travel and accommodation costs. The next meeting (TEL29) will be in Hong Kong, 21-26 March 2004. Registrations are required by 21 February. Information about TEL29 may be found at http://www.apectel29.gov.hk (the website will be updated regularly) and further information and papers from previous meetings at http://www.apectel.org Please contact me if you are interested in joining the New Zealand delegation (you must be a member of an official delegation to attend) or if you would like any further information. And please pass this information on to anyone else you think might be interested. -- Frank March Telephone (+64 4) 474 2908 Senior Specialist Advisor Fax (+64 4) 474 2659 Information Technology Policy Group Mobile: (+64) 21 042 9205 Ministry of Economic Development, Wellington, New Zealand http://www.govt.nz - connecting you to New Zealand central & local government services Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer.

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NZNOG '04 Deadlines
by Tony McGregor 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

Conference plans are proceeding really well and it looks like we're going to have a great conference. We've got a good bunch of speakers on interesting topics including details of a major IPv6 announcement that you'll hear about in the next little while, wireless IP, VoIP, H.323 Video, NZ NGI, BGP, CityLink plans and a heap more. There'll be speakers from many of NZ's major ISPs and other major industry players and from vendors including Cisco and Juniper. We've added a day of workshops and tutorials to the program which will include APNIC's Internet Resource Management Essentials training course and Ian Hastie (Link Information Technology Limited) on Wireless Technology. We've received very generous sponsorship, including from our primary sponsors CityLink and major sponsor InternetNZ. Also from FX networks, the University and the WAND group. This has kept the cost to just $120 for all three days (including lunches, tea and coffee, tee shirt, coffee mug, sponsored bar, etc.) **NOTE*** YOU MUST REGISTER THIS WEEK to get the discounted registration fee or if you require on campus accommodation. If you know of people who might benefit from the conference but who don't regularly read NZNOG (e.g. major customers, operators of national private networks etc) we would be grateful if you would make them aware of the conference. Full details and registration are at: http://www.nznog.org/ Looking forward to seeing you there. Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095(w) +64 7 825 5047(h) Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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how much traffic does a Kiwi use?
by Jonathan Brewer 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

Hi there NZNOG folks, I ask this question with my academic hat* on, as a student in the Victoria MMIM program: How much Internet traffic does the average New Zealander generate/consume per month? I've found a plethora of statistics on how many dialup users are out there, how many ISDN and ADSL lines there, and even how many minutes Kiwis have spent on their dialup connections, (1550 million minutes/month[1]) but nothing on traffic. I have even had a look at a few non-public studies. I haven't, however, found anything about traffic. Results will go in a paper for MMIM 522 comparing e-Infrastructure of Ireland and New Zealand. TIA, and Cheers, Jonathan Brewer * for those of you TNC folks who know me with my 802.16 hat on [1] Howell, Bronwyn & Obren, Mark (2003) Telecommunications Usage in New Zealand: 1993-2003. Wellington: New Zealand Institute for the Study of Competition and Regulation

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W3C head Berners-Lee to be knighted
by Barry Murphy 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

Slightly off topic, but interesting... W3C head Berners-Lee to be knighted http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/12/31/HNblkinght_1.html By Grant Gross, IDG News Service December 31, 2003 World Wide Web founder to be given second highest rank of order Tim Berners-Lee, credited with inventing the World Wide Web and director of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), will be named a Knight Commander, Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth of the U.K., the W3C announced Wednesday. The rank of Knight Commander is the second highest rank of the Order of the British Empire. Berners-Lee, 48, a U.K. citizen who lives in the U.S., is being knighted in recognition of his "services to the global development of the Internet" through the invention of the World Wide Web. "This is an honor which applies to the whole Web development community, and to the inventors and developers of the Internet, whose work made the Web possible, " Berners-Lee said in a statement. "I accept this as an endorsement of the spirit of the Web; of building it in a decentralized way; of making best efforts to keep it open and fair; and of ensuring its fundamental technologies are available to all for broad use and innovation, and without having to pay licensing fees." The London-born Berners-Lee graduated from Oxford University in 1976. As a student there, he built his first computer using a soldering iron, an old television and other parts. In 1980, while Berners-Lee wrote the first program for storing information using the kind of random associations the brain makes. At the time, he worked as a consultant software engineer at CERN, often called the European Particle Physics Laboratory in Geneva. The Enquire program -- which was never published -- formed the conceptual basis for the future development of the Web, according to the W3C. While at CERN in 1989, he proposed a global hypertext project, designed to allow people to work together by combining their knowledge in a Web of hypertext documents. That hypertext project would become known as the World Wide Web. The program, WorldWideWeb, was first made available within CERN in December 1990, and all of Berners-Lee's code was made available on the Internet in the summer of 1991, according to information from the W3C. In 1994, Berners-Lee founded the World Wide Web Consortium, where he presently serves as director. The W3C coordinates Web development worldwide, and its goal is to lead the Web to its full potential, ensuring its stability through rapid evolution and revolutionary transformations of its usage. Berners-Lee joins several other U.K. citizens to receive honors from the Queen, including rock guitarist Eric Clapton, actor Pete Postlethwaite and author Philip Pullman.

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Fwd: 2004 network predictions.
by Richard Naylor 01 Jan '04

01 Jan '04

>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:24:46 -0500 (EST) >From: batz <batsy(a)vapour.net> >To: nanog(a)merit.edu >Subject: 2004 network predictions. > >Here are some dire predictions for 2004. > >While it would be easy to say that the world will end, >I think these are all things that reasonably could happen, >and we could act pre-emptively to mitigate their effects. > > >- Virus infections of handhelds and mobile phones > causing widespread problems for cell networks > similar to worms that flood out IP networks. > - Bonus points for a bluetooth infection vector. > - Extra bonus points if it floods newly minted > VoIP telecom networks. Grim. > >- E-mail whitelist technology gains mainstream acceptance > as spam hits critical mass. Spam recieved by astronauts > in space. > >- ISP's search for new business models realizing that wireless > providers are making a mint charging by the kilobyte, and more > users just surf at work. > >- Wireless network "terrorism" or "porn" incident galvanizes > legislators to force hotspot operators to get ID or credit > card numbers from customers. > >- Really Bad instant-messenger worm that we can't do anything > about because it doesn't use consistant tcp/udp ports. > >- ISP's use managed anti-virus/security to sell new managed services > to users. Birth of the fully provider managed home PC? > >- Affinity networks/six-degrees site privacy boondoggle. > One is caught selling access data to airlines or > transport security or something. Everyone feels sick > as Friendster acquired by Equifax? > >- Private crypted networks used for P2P. Call them blacknets, > darknets, or in true arrr-pirate fashion, booty-nets. > yo-ho-ho. > >- Successful virtual worm network forged after a > worm spreads its second phase and installs an onion > routed virtual network. Maybe a new P2P network? > >- Linux kernel made illegal, somewhere, for a minute. > Presidential candidate may admit to using it once, > but didn't look at the source. RIAA/MPAA/DMCA a > surprise US election issue. > >- LEA access to ISP's formalized, spearheaded by > Cisco and its "lawful interception" capability. > Court gag order placed on participating ISP's, > disgruntled admin leaks details to Cryptome or > Phrack. > >- More end-to-end control connections that > identify/validate/authenticate end users. Eg, > VPN's, SSL, PPP. An assault on anonymity and > stateless protocols, or technologies that interrupt > the statefulness of the connection between user and > their primary providers. (eg, WiFi, P2P, UDP, VoIP). > >- P2P on the road to obselescence caused by higher metred > bandwidth charges to home cable users in line with > wireless costs. While there is a glut of bandwidth > capacity available for transit, this is not the case > for end-user consumption. Cable providers will lower > bandwidth caps under the auspices of combatting piracy, > enabling them to actually make money. > > >Given these sort of predictions, I don't mind >being wrong. Have a good year, I'll post again >then. ;) > > >-- >batz

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 01 Jan '04

01 Jan '04

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. A face-to-face gathering is to take place in Hamilton on January 28 to 30, hosted by the WAND group. That's THIS MONTH. See http://www.nznog.org/ for details. Register NOW if you're planning to attend. Also see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/about.html if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Internet Exchanges See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. See http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the Wellington Internet Exchange. And possibly http://www.citylink.co.nz/information/news/nr1068413489.html . About This Mailing List This list has around six hundred addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Alcatel NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. One way to search the archive is to use google and prefix your search with site:list.waikato.ac.nz . Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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International Capacity... some more questions :)
by Don Gould - BVC 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

The other day someone mentioned that there was a host of other operators with wave legnths on the SXC and others. Can anyone tell me more about who they are? Can you also tell me any that deliver to a pop in Christchurch? Feel free to contact me off list... Cheers DiG -- Don Gould The technology exists to give every home 10mbits per second for $10 per month! Ask not what your telephone company should do for you... ...but what you can do for your broadband community!

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International connectivity
by Matthew Poole 29 Dec '03

29 Dec '03

At risk of pulling this list vaguely back on-topic, I'm curious about which ISPs in NZ carry their own international link(s) - That is, it's them at the NZ end and whoever they peer with at the other end, rather than going through another ISP or NSP within NZ. We all know about TelstraClear, Telecom/GG and the Hug, but are there any others?

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Link Networks / Networkstuff
by Michael Hallager 29 Dec '03

29 Dec '03

We are back online now. I expect that the websites and email will be available by tomorrow morning, as we have to renumber. // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Re: Re: [nznog] (no subject)
by Anaru Hartley 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

> From: Anaru Hartley <tycoon275(a)yahoo.co.nz> > Date: 2003/12/30 Tue AM 01:42:35 GMT+13:00 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] (no subject) > > 18/F That is not me. > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog >

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Re: [nznog] (no subject)
by Anaru Hartley 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

18/F

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(no subject)
by Anaru Hartley 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.

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Surprised it was as little as 50c
by Juha Saarinen 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2770024a13,00.html

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NZNOG-04 crew contact
by Richard Naylor 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

Anyone from the NZNOG-04 conference drew around at the moment ? please contact me off list tia - rich

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Broadband for all
by Peter Macaulay 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

The bad LLU decision is doing some good. We moving from talk to action. On balance I don't think bundled or unbundled LL will make a lot of difference. Once we get past the initial dip in momentum of the BB uptake caused by the poorly structured Telecom ADSL marketing, the alternatives will create the steep upcurve we need to ensure the everyone has access to real broadband. One of the things InternetNZ pays me to do is to find and support ways make this happen. BB is too important to leave to telcos, governments, committees, NGOs, and local authorities. The more more models being developed, the better the chance of getting one or more right. Here are some points I would like you to consider, and where appropriate act. 1) Support all local BB initiatives. I am impressed with the stuff list contributors are doing. Real impact! 2) Encourage your local council to act. For example Manakau City http://www.manukau.govt.nz/smartmanukau.htm have taken a simple step by ensuring that conduit is in place for all new subdivisions. I will meet with Banksy (Auckland City) early in the new year. 3) Put pressure on the telcos to change their thinking. If they don't they won't have much to worry about in five years apart from managing a sunset business. 4) Support legislative improvements (not more legislation!) to support BB e.g.. create opportunities for glass to go in every time a hole is dug. Most ministers are supportive, but don't see the vision. 5) Encourage the telcos to keep supporting the interop facilitation headed by Judy Speight. This initiative has the potential to pre-empt many of the issues surrounding the hooking up of local initiatives. The level of Telco support has been surprising and seems genuine. 6) The lack of support of TUANZ is a concern http://www.tuanz.org.nz/url.cfm?pg=23 I have provided a list of issues to Ernie Newman. Members should ask TUANZ why they believe there are no interop issues that the telcos won't resolve 6) Don't worry whether people want BB. Not enough spenders wants innovative thinking until it is no longer innovative. The apps to make BB everything we envision will not appear until enough of the spenders have it. Who would have guessed the uptake of texting? 7) Talk to marketing people about this. They need to learn about what we will deliver to allow them to build the markets for the new stuff. 8) Talk to everyone about the shift away from telco-think to net-think. toll rates will no longer be the way to make a profit. 9) Don't be concerned over traffic models or uses for BB. Nobody knows where it is going. It is still interesting to think about it though. 10) Make outrageous press statements. 11) Support the NGI team as they work to create the new Academic & Research BB environment. 12 Secretly develop your new killer app. 13) Give me things to do. Feel free to contact me directly. Do we need a new list for this topic? -- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Richard Naylor 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

At 05:30 p.m. 27/12/2003 +1300, Steve Withers wrote: >On Sat, 2003-12-27 at 10:00, Richard Naylor wrote: > > > Personally I agree with him. NZ has had the *best* deregulated environment > > for the past 12 years and has largely squandered that advantage. > >It was never going to work - which was obvious from the outset. :-) > >So deregulation failed to deliver what was promised for it. It failed because people failed to understand it. They still wait for someone else to do it for them and complain about what Telecom do or don't do. Why not do it yourself. There were absolutely no barriers to doing just that, just laziness and ignorance. TUANZ just bleated on about number portability and interconnect and failed to see what else was on offer. They've finally woken up to broadband - about 6 years too late. >Is that really news to anyone? The same thing has happened almost >everywhere there was a dominant player effectively controlling the >market. I would disagree Steve. The dominant player is also bogged down with entrenched thinking and a huge investment in equipment thats past its use by date. Hence the earlier debate about architecture et al. So you just compete by being massively better. Its not hard when cheap gig switches are under $300 >There was - in real terms - no opportunity to be squandered. The >cost/price curves never met for competitors - because Telecom was gifted >an infrastructure that cost far more to build than what they paid for >it. The competitors tried playing on the same playing field. At a time when technology is rampantly changing, the trick is to make your own playing field using the new stuff. rich

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RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Richard Naylor 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

At 11:08 a.m. 29/12/2003 +1300, Tony Wicks wrote: >I hate to be a stick in the mud, but once you have your Auckland to >Wellington fiber, you will then need a second one to back it up for the >times that someone dig's it up while putting in a new drain. And then >getting across the cook straight etc etc. Couldn't agree more Tony. I just wanted to show how "cheap" it was, but also that there is a market for it. I was going to say "if only someone had the time" but Roger did and has (almost) done it. I also think we need to add to this discussion that its easy to talk about building a network, but running one needs a certain experience that isn't easy to get hold of. There's a huge difference between running a few routers/wireless nodes and a network. We struggle with this at CityLink. A utility network just thinks differently and works differently and does things differently. Just because you can use a handycam, it doesn't mean you can run a TV station. Equally, just because you have a few routers, servers and wireless link, doesn't mean you can run a network. I learned a HUGE amount and have HUGE respect for the guys I worked for in the power industry for 14 years. I hope I use that learning well. Yes DO build networks, but look at how the others OPERATE. rich Tony is so right about the cable getting cut. You have to be aware it IS going to happen. We once had teh same substation catch fire twice on ONE week end (we could change the whole sub with a crane - kerbside kiosk type). Equally just after spending 3 night shifting our first CityLink node (about 5-600 fiber ccts) a major cable got cut. You have to have spares for multiple hits, have the resources (people) and proceedures so that things get done even when you're a zombie. I worked 120 hours that week on 9 hrs sleep - 2 of which were in my bed. The cut was on june 13, 2003 - a friday.

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Fwd: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Michael Hallager 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

I can supply a high speed reliable wireless connection to any of six local schools, at a speed that exceeds "broadband" at a price far cheaper and a level of service far better, then any government scheme can. Whether I wish to put up with teachers and BOT's left wing stance that I owe it to them... for free (Almost)... is another matter. > I also think that if the telecoms providers and ISPs of NZ can't build > and operate a network for schools / police / fire service / whatever > that meets their requirements, then the government itself should build > such a network. > > I say this becasue today we spend billions on stuffing Telecom NZ's and > TelstraClear's pockets.....and the profit alone on that service would > build a kick-ass national network that would meet the infrastructural > aims and goals I have in mind. > > We have seen so far in NZ that private network providers - mainly > Telecom, but they aren't alone - are likely more expensive in the medium > and long term - at the end of the day - than a publicly-funded, > cost-recovery network would be. > > As Richard naylor has said: Why not just do it yourself? > > Is that a question to individuals only? Or could the people of New > Zealand hear that quesiton and respond? > > I agree that deregulation presented opportunity.....but where is the > competition we were supposed to see? > > It isn't there....and Telecom NZ remains the most profitable telco in > the OECD - pound for inch....and mainly becasue they were gifted - by > Richard Prebble - a publicly funded and built infrastructure that no one > else today can afford to match. > > I'll be quiet now. -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624 ------------------------------------------------------- -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Fwd: DBMAIL: delivery failure
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

Is anyone else receiving the below message *every* time they post? Or is this just Craig continuing on his little tantrum? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: DBMAIL: delivery failure Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23 From: postmaster(a)concept.net.nz To: michael(a)vivid.net.nz This is the DBMAIL-SMTP program. I'm sorry to inform you that your message, addressed to will(a)concept.net.nz, could not be delivered due to the following error. *** E-mail address will(a)concept.net.nz is not known here. *** If you think this message is incorrect please contact postmaster(a)concept.net.nz. Header of your message follows... --- header of your message --- Received: (qmail 31143 invoked by uid 511); 28 Dec 2003 10:23:49 -0000 Received: from nznog-bounces+will=concept.net.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz by smtp.nz.conceptnetworks.net by uid 502 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (sophie: 3.04/2.17/3.74. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:0(130.217.66.62):SA:0(0.0/5.0):. Processed in 3.915547 secs); 28 Dec 2003 10:23:49 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 Received: from newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (130.217.66.62) by smtp.nz.conceptnetworks.net with SMTP; 28 Dec 2003 10:23:45 -0000 Received: from newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BD5127D05; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23:08 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mailserv.waikato.ac.nz (mailserv.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.66.61]) by newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A253127CFA for <NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23:05 +1300 (NZDT) X-Envelope-From: michael(a)vivid.net.nz X-Envelope-To: <NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Received: from dbmail-mx3.orcon.co.nz (loadbalancer-VIP.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.2]) by mailserv.waikato.ac.nz (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSAN4mu002510 for <NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23:05 +1300 Received: from port-219-88-255-22.orcon.net.nz (port-219-88-255-22.orcon.net.nz [219.88.255.22]) by dbmail-mx3.orcon.co.nz (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-5) with ESMTP id hBSAJtBV006000; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:19:56 +1300 From: Michael Hallager <michael(a)vivid.net.nz> Organization: networkStuff ltd To: Robert McDonald <rob(a)nzpages.net> Subject: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:26:40 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031228083857.00F7A82795(a)smtp-1.paradise.net.nz> <1072602335.18746.7.camel(a)tbird> <200312282246.02855.rob(a)nzpages.net> In-Reply-To: <200312282246.02855.rob(a)nzpages.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312282326.40081.michael(a)vivid.net.nz> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.38 Cc: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz X-BeenThere: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: michael(a)vivid.net.nz List-Id: New Zealand Network Operators Group <nznog.list.waikato.ac.nz> List-Unsubscribe: <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog>, <mailto:nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/pipermail/nznog> List-Post: <mailto:nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> List-Help: <mailto:nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog>, <mailto:nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz?subject=subscribe> --- end of header --- . ------------------------------------------------------- -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

> This may be true for you and your community, but where I live, where lots > of people can't get stable modem connections, and can't connect faster than > say 14.4K, there are people screaming for alternatives. We have lots of > wireless "home" customers for lots and lots of different reasons, and most > of them are not in the geek category. Our community is extremely low > density population pockets, and delivering wireless over extremely diverse > topography presents extreme challenges, and in many cases the up to $20K > installation costs are offputting to the customer. Problem: If you can't get better then 14.4k connections, how are you going to internet feed your wireless POP? Telecom does not install frame connections on poor copper due to QOS SLA's. That is where the 20k install cost comes from. (Which I guess you are well aware of). Though given all of the costs involved, do you actually make money supplying home users in low density population areas?

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RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Tristram Cheer 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

I'm yet to see a school in Wellington that has access to ADSL that isn't on it, I don't speak for all schools in NZ just the 90% I IT knowledge of their layout. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Dean [mailto:jon.dean(a)simplicity.net.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 11:12 p.m. To: Tristram Cheer Subject: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:38, Tristram Cheer wrote: > Most School are already on ADSL already, most in Wellington clock up A LOT > (Re: 5 figure's) of traffic so I doubt the amount of business gained would > counterbalance the loss of income from schools moving from ADSL to Wifi > Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know > > Tristram Most schools are not on DSL. Probably in excess of 90% are on dialup. Which has known monthly cost of ~$27.00 vs ???? on DSL. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/7qxve/+/JCBbkYgRAuzAAJ4w2KD1n5zv09wLD88N50IeBg9bhgCeNWUQ xMBju1RjVgyOBJVmFpa/xNE= =KwtC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Tristram Cheer 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

4 - That's the lite version. The point it is that it's possible - its not the nicest of routing table I give you that but its possible Regards Tristram -----Original Message----- From: Tony Wicks [mailto:nzog(a)road.gen.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:52 p.m. To: Tristram Cheer Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! 4 is not quite hundreds. -----Original Message----- From: Tristram Cheer [mailto:james.edward(a)paradise.net.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:49 p.m. To: nzog(a)road.gen.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! www.fatpipeinc.com It is possible - Novell Small Business Suite 6 Include's FatPipe Internet which allows for 4 connections to be combined as one, with load balancing Regards Tristram -----Original Message----- From: Tony Wicks [mailto:nzog(a)road.gen.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:43 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! ah, guys, I hate to point out the blaringly obvious, but you can't just get 100x128k (or more) connections and stick them together and think you have 12 meg of real bandwidth. It just doesn't work that way, there is no device that load balances 100 (or more !) http (or whatever) connections out lots of little pipes, and if there was it would be utterly chaotic and unworkable. Also remember, ISP's only survive because they can oversell the wholesale bandwith they buy. When you buy your 128k Jetstart connection, your are NOT buying 128k of Internet dedicated to you. If all the users used all of their bandwith ALL ISP's would go broke in a matter of months. -----Original Message----- From: Don Gould - BVC [mailto:dig(a)bvc.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:38 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! Hi Mark, On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:50:00 +1300 (NZDT), Mark Foster wrote > http://www.telecom.co.nz/chm/0,5123,100633-200550,00.html Thanks for the reference. > "If you are acquiring our Jetstream service for private, residential > purposes".... I had a quick look at those T&C and it didn't seem to indicate that there were any conditions placed on what I do with the service. As I understand it Telecom has been challanged on issues like this before with relation to their telephone service where small businesses are operating from home. > Where the service is being obtained for a purpose that doesnt fit > into the above the t&c for business customers comes into affect- > and jetstream starter is a residential product, can only be given > to residential customers. What is the difference between a business and residential service? In Australia most people seem to agree that it's the level of back up you can expect. If something breaks business customers get seen to first - are we so different here? > As much as Rob's comment looks like FUD there's an element of truth. 100% Agree. Most FUD always has an element of truth... let me give you an example... What do you think would happen if Telecom were to sue (as suggested by Robert) a New Zealand family for sharing part of their JetStart connection with their local school? Would the kids give up their $10 a month TXT and be content with using a little less txt on a Vodafone mobile and then tell all their friends to do the same? (I won't even go into the field day that Vodafone would have with that one!) Would the family cancel their ADSL account, Sky Accont and home phone line accounts then switch to Telstra cable, with their pay tv offering and then tell all their relations to do the same? Would mum and dad put preasure on their employers to move their data, mobile and voice services away from Telecom and to another provider? Could 800 Students ranging in age from 12 to 17 have a huge impact on a telephone company if said telephone company started to sue them... [1] > Schools are businesses and are charged business rates. Schools are in the business of teaching our children. Those children go on to become the future of New Zealand. Children are some of the biggest buyers of telecommunication products and services - least Telecom forget that. > Telecom also > cut them various deals to get online as economically as possible. Thanks for the info. Cheers DiG [1] Have a quick look at what's happening in the US where families have been sued by the music industry - suing a child does not make you look good in the press! -- Don Gould The technology exists to give every home 10mbits per second for $10 per month! Ask not what your telephone company should do for you... ...but what you can do for your broadband community! _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Ewen McNeill 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

In message <20031227043006.M87348(a)bvc.com.au>, "Don Gould - BVC" writes: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:16:11 +1300, Simon Blake wrote >> <shrug> Stand for your council, and make a difference - if you could >> get 1% of the cash spent on Auckland roads spent on Auckland fibre >> to the home, you'd be awash in high speed data. > >Now that makes sense! How often to councils have elections? Every three years; the next set is next year (2004) IIRC. And for those that think Simon is joking, he's not. Even if you can't get any budget set aside for installing fibre, just ensuring that council ducts are put in each time the road is opened up for some other reason (eg, Wellington has some large holes in the CBD at present for upgrading the storm water system -- it'd be a shame if they were closed up again without ducts having been put in alongside), and some sensible approach for operators to gain access to those council ducts would make a huge difference. For that matter coordinating the installation of wiring/ducts/etc into the roads, so that the costs of digging is shared, would help -- especially if it were made a condition of any road works permits. And you could probably sell it to the public on reduced inconvenience (eg, road only dug up once in 6 months, rather than three times) alone. Some councils (eg, Wellington) have special coordination teams to help movies be made around the town; it seems to me that a similar amount of money spent on a few clueful people to coordinate shared ducts, shared digging, etc, would achieve similarly large rewards for relatively little money. Ewen

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Re: right of reply.
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

I have plenty of email correspondence (And several phonecalls) from Craig after that meeting, including a quote, a request to buy a Cisco WIC1T from me, an offer of free Cisco IOS software (Which I didn't take) and yet another bad mouth gossip peice about a company he has since jumped in to bed with. Craig has not taken up my offer to discuss his claimed problem in private, as he does not have a problem, merely a well deserved reputation for bad mouthing people, including other list members, with LIES in private, and now public forums. I am fully aware that I am one of many people on the receiving end of Craigs lies and gossip. As for Wills post, he is an employee of ConceptNet, hardly "independant contribution". Given Craigs OWN reputation I find it astonishing that he "throws stones in a glass house". > Oh go away. > > If you want to discuss this privately, do so. It is not list material. > > I refused to answer your phonecalls after that meeting for a reason. > > THE END. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 12:40 a.m. > To: Craig Spiers > Cc: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: right of reply. > > You were very happy to quote me for an internet connection only 3 months > ago. > > The only thing that has happened since then is that I went to Net4U rather > then your company - ConceptNet. > > Excluding limited internet connectivity, my business is fine. It is not "my > fault" as you claim, as I did not cause Net4U to be disconnected by any > streach of your imagination. > As widely known, Telecom disconnected Net4U due to an alledged credit issue > and this had a downstream effect on me. > > I never post about you. I never initiate an email to you and I have only > ever had one meeting with you where you wanted (HAPPILY) to sell me > internet connectivity. > Despite this, you have a history of writing rude emails to me about nothing > at all, which is why you were blocked at my MX server recently. > > I suggest that you take your own advice in A, B, C and D and hope very much > that *your* business never has any "problems" at all, in case you end up > having to swallow some of *your* own medicine. > > I am disapointed at the demise of Net4U. In the short time I had a frame > relay link with them, Sahil gave me very good service and was responsive to > my requirements. > > *************************************************************************** >* ************ > If you wish to discuss anything in an appropriate manner, I suggest that > you write me an email directly, including outlining any issues that you > would like to sort out (I truely have no idea what they are) and we will > handle this in a businesslike manner. > *************************************************************************** >* ************ > > Otherwise I suggest that you discontinue this, rather then posting > unrelated untrue, immature and defamitory garbage to the NZNOG list. > > Michael Hallager > > > This I don't think is worth continuing.. > > > > A) your not worth arguing with. > > B) right now I have better things to do > > C) im sure your business has its own problems right now, and its your > > own fault really. > > D) get over it. > > E) before you ask, I refuse to help you. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:57 p.m. > > To: Craig Spiers > > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > Networksoutage > > > > The business deals that say that you should watch what you say in > > public, lest it come back to you. > > > > > Could possibly be.. What business deal are we talking about? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:51 p.m. > > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > > Networksoutage > > > > > > Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people > > > in private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > > > > > > > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > > > > what your like to deal with. > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > > > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > > > Networks outage > > > > > > > > Hello all. > > > > > > > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline > > > > and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > > > > > > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection > > > > supplied by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online > > > > until an alternative ISP can be found. > > > > > > > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, > > > > though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, > > > > because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this > > > > suddenly happening at the worst possible time. > > > > > > > > The requirements are: > > > > > > > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > > > > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > > > > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > > > > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > > > > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale > > data" > > > > > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > > > > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > > > > > > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I > > > > can easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually > > > > have responsibility for the network. > > > > > > > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit > > > > is owned by my company. > > > > > > > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone > > > > numbers. (After hours and weekend is fine). > > > > > > > > // Michael Hallager > > > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading > > > > supplier of high quality used networking equipment. > > > > > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > > -- > > > // Michael Hallager > > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > > equipment. > > > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > -- > > // Michael Hallager > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > equipment. > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > -- > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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right of reply.
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

You were very happy to quote me for an internet connection only 3 months ago. The only thing that has happened since then is that I went to Net4U rather then your company - ConceptNet. Excluding limited internet connectivity, my business is fine. It is not "my fault" as you claim, as I did not cause Net4U to be disconnected by any streach of your imagination. As widely known, Telecom disconnected Net4U due to an alledged credit issue and this had a downstream effect on me. I never post about you. I never initiate an email to you and I have only ever had one meeting with you where you wanted (HAPPILY) to sell me internet connectivity. Despite this, you have a history of writing rude emails to me about nothing at all, which is why you were blocked at my MX server recently. I suggest that you take your own advice in A, B, C and D and hope very much that *your* business never has any "problems" at all, in case you end up having to swallow some of *your* own medicine. I am disapointed at the demise of Net4U. In the short time I had a frame relay link with them, Sahil gave me very good service and was responsive to my requirements. **************************************************************************************** If you wish to discuss anything in an appropriate manner, I suggest that you write me an email directly, including outlining any issues that you would like to sort out (I truely have no idea what they are) and we will handle this in a businesslike manner. **************************************************************************************** Otherwise I suggest that you discontinue this, rather then posting unrelated untrue, immature and defamitory garbage to the NZNOG list. Michael Hallager > This I don't think is worth continuing.. > > A) your not worth arguing with. > B) right now I have better things to do > C) im sure your business has its own problems right now, and its your own > fault really. > D) get over it. > E) before you ask, I refuse to help you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:57 p.m. > To: Craig Spiers > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > Networksoutage > > The business deals that say that you should watch what you say in public, > lest it come back to you. > > > Could possibly be.. What business deal are we talking about? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:51 p.m. > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > Networksoutage > > > > Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people in > > private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > > > > > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > > > what your like to deal with. > > > > > > :) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > > Networks outage > > > > > > Hello all. > > > > > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline > > > and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > > > > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied > > > by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an > > > alternative ISP can be found. > > > > > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, > > > though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, > > > because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this > > > suddenly happening at the worst possible time. > > > > > > The requirements are: > > > > > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > > > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > > > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > > > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > > > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > > > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > > > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > > > > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can > > > easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have > > > responsibility for the network. > > > > > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is > > > owned by my company. > > > > > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > > > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > > > > > // Michael Hallager > > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > > equipment. > > > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > -- > > // Michael Hallager > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > equipment. > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > -- > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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How much is enough ?
by Richard Naylor 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

I need some feedback, comments or whatever.... The average house has a 230V feed good for 60amps. It suits most people apart from a few with fixations on large swimming pools, huge sauna, large lathes, and growing pot. (power bills or substation loads were a dead give away) They got 3 phase power or jail. Almost no one ever got 11kV. (I say no one because we did supply several businesses that way) What is the data equivalent to a 230v 60 amp supply ? 10 100 100 Mbps ? 10mbps - too slow generally 1/2 duplex gets ugly as it gets max'd out. 100mbps - cheap, reliable, goes well. MPEG-2 fits in nicely (6mbps) so a house would get say 10 simultaneous TV channels eaisly (newer codecs like MPEG4/DiVX work for the same quality at 1.5mbps, so as faster cpus come into wider use bandwidth gets conserved). 100mbps allows very easy power+data on one tail. Routing/firewall is easy and cheap at wire speed. 1000mbps - becoming cheap. also reliable. might mean power on separate cable or less power available. Firewalls/routers expensive unless you home brew..... So - what is it ? TIA - rich

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Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage
by Michael Hallager 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people in private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering what > your like to deal with. > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks > outage > > Hello all. > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline and our > email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied by > Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an alternative > ISP can be found. > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, though I > would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, because I double > appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this suddenly happening at the > worst possible time. > > The requirements are: > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can easy go > to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have responsibility > for the network. > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is owned > by my company. > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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RE: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networksoutage
by Craig Spiers 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

This I don't think is worth continuing.. A) your not worth arguing with. B) right now I have better things to do C) im sure your business has its own problems right now, and its your own fault really. D) get over it. E) before you ask, I refuse to help you. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:57 p.m. To: Craig Spiers Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networksoutage The business deals that say that you should watch what you say in public, lest it come back to you. > Could possibly be.. What business deal are we talking about? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:51 p.m. > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > Networksoutage > > Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people in > private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > > > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > > what your like to deal with. > > > > :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > Networks outage > > > > Hello all. > > > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline > > and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied > > by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an > > alternative ISP can be found. > > > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, > > though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, > > because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this > > suddenly happening at the worst possible time. > > > > The requirements are: > > > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can > > easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have > > responsibility for the network. > > > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is > > owned by my company. > > > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > > > // Michael Hallager > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > equipment. > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > -- > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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RE: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage
by Craig Spiers 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

Fair enough.. Thanks to all those who also commented! -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:40 p.m. To: Craig Spiers Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage and your opinion is clearly worth nothing. keep it to yourself craig. > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > what your like to deal with. > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks > outage > > Hello all. > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline and > our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied > by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an > alternative ISP can be found. > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, though > I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, because I > double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this suddenly > happening at the worst possible time. > > The requirements are: > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can > easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have > responsibility for the network. > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is > owned by my company. > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage
by Michael Hallager 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

Hello all. As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an alternative ISP can be found. I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this suddenly happening at the worst possible time. The requirements are: 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" need not apply. I have more important things to do right now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have responsibility for the network. The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is owned by my company. I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. (After hours and weekend is fine). // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Interesting NBR story apropos "ADSL broadband" etc
by Juha Saarinen 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7877&cid=3&cname=Technology -- Juha

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Ewen McNeill 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

In message <3FECEE8B.1020209(a)saarinen.org>, Juha Saarinen writes: >I don't want to sound defeatist, but I think I'll be withered and dead >long before there's an affordable alternative to DSL outside the >Auckland CBD. I'm outside the Auckland CBD.[0] I've got a 2 Mbps down, 256 kbps up link to my house. That, plus my phone line, come to under $120/month total. To my mind that's affordable.[2] You might point out that this is also supplied by a telco, and that's true these days. But it wasn't originally set up by a telco. If you set your target as "DSL everywhere" then frankly I don't think all that much is going to be achieved. 1Mbps, 2Mbps, or even 10Mbps is so 1990s. I've been pleasantly surprised with just how successful DSL has been (internationally), given that it wasn't so many years ago we were told the POTS lines were good for 9600bps with a tail wind and not a bit more. But it's basically a dancing bear. Much as I think the Commerce Commission decision was probably the wrong decision for New Zealand[3], it's not really a major problem. All it means is that the Government isn't going to provide. Time for some Kiwi ingunity. Ewen [0] Approximately 800km outside the Auckland CBD, but that's outside the Auckland CBD.[1] [1] I'm not even sure why the Auckland CBD is the point of reference; there are other cities in New Zealand with better high speed connectivity. 100Mbps connections for less than what I know some organisations are paying for a single E1 across town in other cities. [2] For about $15 more per month I could get "pay TV" as well. Not that that'd be a whole lot of use, since I don't have a TV. [3] Cheap DSL everywhere would have been better than the current situation assuming it could be rolled out over a year or two -- as the Australia experience suggests.

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Re: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Jonny Martin 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

> It's almost 2004... we should be looking at tens of Mbps services, if > not faster. Yet you're arguing for use of Telecom's network... Cheers, Jonny.

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Re: [nznog] Net4U disconnected
by Michael Bordignon 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

Yes, from what I can tell, but would like to hear from Sahil about this > -- as I am sure would his customers and staff. nice -- http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3541048 Michael

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Re: Net4U Disconnected
by Lamar - LH Web Services 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

I think that he may intend opening up FastAccess Limited, as he recently brought them out (employee of Net4u) ?? He has also just started up PC2Day Ltd with someone else. It was only a matter of time before something happened. Anyone else know anything more ? -- Regards, Lamar Hargreaves, LH Web Services. 02.Net Internet Services. > I guess most of you know about Net4U getting disconnected already, but > for those who haven't heard, errm, Net4U has been disconnected. > Completely. > > Looks like neither staff nor customers were told about the > disconnection. Sahil hasn't returned my calls. Has anyone been told what > he intends to do next? > > -- > Juha

2 1

Net4U disconnected
by Juha Saarinen 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

I guess most of you know about Net4U getting disconnected already, but for those who haven't heard, errm, Net4U has been disconnected. Completely. Looks like neither staff nor customers were told about the disconnection. Sahil hasn't returned my calls. Has anyone been told what he intends to do next? -- Juha

2 2

NZNOG '04 Programme
by Jamie Curtis 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

So, after an unfortunate amount of delay, we finally have a tentitive programme for the NZNOG (aka Big Geek Program) '04 conference. Despite our best efforts we still don't have all speakers confirmed but the confirmed speakers, topics and abstracts are all available from: http://www.nznog.org/programme.php Other major developments are the announcement of our primary sponsor and the addition of an extra workshop day to the conference schedule. We are pleased to announce that CityLink will be the conference's primary sponsor. I'm sure we are all already aware of the great work CityLink do for the NZ network scene through the operation of WIX and APE, and we would like to extend our thanks to them for their support of this conference. Also on the sponsorship front, we would like to thank Roger De Salis and FX networks for their sponsorship of a bartab for the night of the conference dinner. I'm sure that there will be plenty of us there to thank him in person on the night ! There are also a number of other sponsors who we don't have space to thank individually here, but we appreciate the support and it all helps us make the conference more enjoyable and informative for all. The conference has now been extended by placing a workshop/tutorial day on Wednesday the 28th, before the conference proper on the 29th and 30th. We have currently two workshops scheduled during the day, a full day APNIC training session and a half day "Wireless workshop". These sessions are available for no extra cost to anyone who registers for the main conference. More details on these workshops as we receive them are available from: http://www.nznog.org/workshops.php Earlybird registrations close on Janurary the 9th, so for many people there is less than two working weeks before the conference fee increases. There is still accomodation available on campus as detailed on the website. There are only a limited number of rooms available with an ethernet Internet connection provided, so if you want one of those, get in quick. As always, the latest and most complete information can be found on the conference website: http://www.nznog.org Any queries or problems relating to any of this can be forwarded to: info(a)nznog.org Cheers Jamie (on behalf of the NZNOG organising committee) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamie Curtis email: jpc2(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz WAND Group Lab G1.03 phone +64 21 392 102 Computer Science Department, University of Waikato, New Zealand -----------------------------------------------------------------------

2 1

Bandwidth in Auckland CBD
by Robert McDonald 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Hi, I know this isn't about technical stuff, and OT on this list: But here goes. Can anyone provide me with arround a 50Gb a month mainly domestic 1/10 int/nat ratio, with some kind of service level agreement. Preferably able to get it into citylink's new space in Auckland, (no point in getting rack space if i cant get bandwidth) Email me with your offers and solutions. Im after something rock steady Something we havn't had lately. Cheers Rob

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NZNOG '04 Programme
by Donald Neal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

So, after an unfortunate amount of delay, we finally have a tentative programme for the NZNOG (aka Big Geek Programme) '04 conference. Despite our best efforts we still don't have all speakers confirmed but the confirmed speakers, topics and abstracts are all available from: http://www.nznog.org/programme.php Other major developments are the announcement of our primary sponsor and the addition of an extra workshop day to the conference schedule. We are pleased to announce that CityLink will be the conference's primary sponsor. I'm sure we are all already aware of the great work CityLink do for the NZ network scene through the operation of WIX and APE, and we would like to extend our thanks to them for their support of this conference. Also on the sponsorship front, we would like to thank Roger De Salis and FX networks for their sponsorship of a bartab for the night of the conference dinner. I'm sure that there will be plenty of us there to thank him in person on the night ! There are also a number of other sponsors who we don't have space to thank individually here, but we appreciate the support and it all helps us make the conference more enjoyable and informative for all. The conference has now been extended by placing a workshop/tutorial day on Wednesday the 28th, before the conference proper on the 29th and 30th. We have currently two workshops scheduled during the day, a full day APNIC training session and a half day "Wireless workshop". These sessions are available for no extra cost to anyone who registers for the main conference. More details on these workshops as we receive them are available from: http://www.nznog.org/workshops.php Earlybird registrations close on Janurary the 9th, so for many people there is less than two working weeks before the conference fee increases. There is still accomodation available on campus as detailed on the website. There are only a limited number of rooms available with an ethernet Internet connection provided, so if you want one of those, get in quick. As always, the latest and most complete information can be found on the conference website: http://www.nznog.org Any queries or problems relating to any of this can be forwarded to: info(a)nznog.org Cheers Jamie (on behalf of the NZNOG organising committee) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamie Curtis email: jpc2(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz WAND Group Lab G1.03 phone +64 21 392 102 Computer Science Department, University of Waikato, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Telecom/Telstra Peering.
by Simon Lyall 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

At the bottom of a fairly unrelated story[1] I came across: " Meanwhile, Telecom and TelstraClear have signed a peering agreement which formalises arrangements under which the telcos move data traffic across one another's networks. Mr Goulter says the telcos' engineering teams have cooperated to allow peering for some time, but the new commercial agreement is "good for the future of the industry". " John Goulter is a Telecom Spokesman, I can't find anything about the deal on either company's media release sites however. [1] http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2757590a28,00.html -- Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

2 1

ICONZ and TelstraClear have agreed to peer with one another
by Juha Saarinen 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

Got a terse media statement about the above... no actual details, but it looks like ICONZ has agreed to pay TelstraClear for domestic peering. Wonder what the consequences of that'll be? -- Juha

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RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Michael Bordignon 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

> Can someone post some links to these other streams ? Thanks. http://www.r2.co.nz/20031201/ I can see the 384kb/sec stream perfectly (mostly, apart from some buffering) now, webcams are pretty much ok now too. Michael

5 4

Ihug Peering prefix-list update
by Leon Chang 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Would all Ihug's domestic peers please update their prefix-list. The update-to-date prefix list can be found at: http://www.ihug.net/ihug-prefix-list Thanks. -- Leon Chang, CCNP, CCDP Senior Network Engineer The Internet Group Ltd. (IHUG), Auckland, New Zealand AS7657 PH: +64 9 359 2710 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] TC routing
by Donald Neal 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: [...] Andy Linton > Sent: Thursday, 4 December 2003 09:47 > To: nznog > Subject: Re: [nznog] TC routing > > > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 05:20, Barry Murphy wrote: > > Wouldn't it be nice to have mrtg graphs of both WIX and APE > like whats been > > done with LINX > > http://www.linx.net/tools/stats/index.thtml [...] > That's not to say we aren't thinking of ways to catalogue and measure > the benefits of having the exchanges. Perhaps measures of the > round trip > times between various points on the network would be of more interest. > > A job for the lads at Waikato's WAND group funded by InternetNZ? Or possibly just place "beacon" devices - whether servers or SAA-capable routers - at the exchange points so people can run their own tests to a point attached to the exchange but outside their own networks? Donald Neal | "They won't wobble. They won't! Technical Specialist | I shall lean against them Operations Engineering | myself, and I'm 6ft 6in. I will Integration & Services Divn. | personally eliminate wobble." Alcatel NZ Ltd | All opinions mine only. | - Russell T. Davies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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APRICOT 2004 : Speakers for Peering and Internet Exchange Track
by Simon Lyall 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

If people are going to APRICOT 2004 they might be interesting in the below. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:04:40 -0800 From: William B. Norton <wbn(a)equinix.com> To: apops(a)apops.net Subject: [apops] APRICOT 2004 : Speakers for Peering and Internet Exchange Track Hi all - You may have heard that there will be a new one-day track on Peering and Internet Exchanges at the upcoming APRICOT in Kuala Lumpur. I'd like to describe the track in brief and solicit a few more Peering Coordinators / Network Architects / Network Engineers as speakers for the track. (See http://www.apricot2004.net/ for information on the broader APRICOT 2004 conference). This Peering and Internet Exchange Track is intended to facilitate regional ISP Peering by providing a forum for Peering Coordinators to meet each other and share information about Asia Pacific peering. We will facilitate this with several panels, each one focused on peering in a particular country. If you are a Peering Coordinator with experience peering in the AP Region, please send me an e-mail answering the questions below. I will use this information to match panelists together into panels focused on certain AP countries. Thanks! Bill --------------------------- Speaker Questionnaire ------------------------------------ If you are able and willing to speak at the Feb 2004 APRICOT Peering and Internet Exchange Track, please fill out the following form and e-mail to William B. Norton at wbn(a)umich.edu: Name: __________________ Title: ___________________ Company: _______________ AS # _________________ In what country do you live? _________________ Email Address: __________________ We will select a set of panelists based on the answers to the questions below: 1) In what countries do you peer? 2) In which AP Country do you have peering experiences that you can share with the audience? 3) Answer as many of the questions below as applicable, as you would present as part of your presentation a) We are looking for speakers that have found interesting or unique country peering ecosystem characteristics. Have you uncovered any unexpected or interesting/unique peering ecosystem characteristics in any of the countries where you peer? Please give a few examples. b) We are also looking for unusual or unexpected traffic patterns. For example, a large amount of Japan traffic is ultimately destined to and from Brazil! Identifying and explaining this type of inter-country traffic would be a good set of data to launch a presentation. Do you have any of this type of data that you can share? c) What are the problems and challenges that you face as you build peering infrastructure into various AP countries? d) If other Peering Coordinators follow your footsteps into regions in which you now peer, what would you tell them: · is information that you would have liked to have had? · Are unexpected problems that you faced? e) What are the emerging trends that you see in the peering ecosystems in which you operate (transit and transport prices going up or down and the implications as you see them). /* William B. Norton <wbn(a)equinix.com> 650.315.8635 Co-Founder and Chief Technical Liaison Equinix, Inc. */ _______________________________________________ apops mailing list apops(a)apops.net http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apops

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Network security heads-up
by Matthew Poole 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

Morning all. I have received information which indicates that one of the more notorious members of NZ's black-hat community has been "fiddling" with things he shouldn't. www.deadsnake.net is one example. In light of this, it may be advisable to check the security of your network-facing systems. Regards

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Multiple power outages in Dunedin
by Dan Clark 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

Hi Guys, Just been a couple of consecutive power outages here in Dunedin one after the other, anyone with equipment down here might wanna check their battery/diesel levels, may have been a bit hard on some automatic cut-in breakers as the power went down quite soon after it came up from the first outage. First major outage in some time, great test for our UPS and Generator. Kind Regards, Dan Clark Network Manager DunedinWireless Scarfies.Net Ltd Wickliffe Limited

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LOTR Premiere footage
by Richard Naylor 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

now available on www.r2.co.nz/20031201 be warned its 4:45 long rich

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Re: TC routing
by Tony McGregor 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

Andy wrote: >That's not to say we aren't thinking of ways to catalogue and measure >the benefits of having the exchanges. Perhaps measures of the round trip >times between various points on the network would be of more interest. > >A job for the lads at Waikato's WAND group funded by InternetNZ? We'd love to do that. We'd probably use amp (see http://watt.nlanr.net/active) Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095(w) +64 7 825 5047(h) Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Finnigan, Jamie (NZ - Wellington) 03 Dec '03

03 Dec '03

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/UNID/E85DA6556D0BDE76CC256DEF001D4F86 " "The 128Kbit/s stream plays (just) but gets very blocky and stops at times. The 384 Kbit/s connection.. just doesn't go or just buffers and buffers," wrote one anguished fan. " I don't know Paul, I saw some pretty anguished young ladies on the side of the red carpet yesterday afternoon.. Craig was probably better described as 'very slightly perturbed' than 'anguished'. :-P Great day though, happy I could spend it out in the sun rather than watching from my desk. :) -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore To: 'Dan Clark' Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Sent: 1/12/2003 5:14 p.m. Subject: RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy The 128K stream plays (just) but gets very blocky and stops at times. The 384K Connection.. just doesn't go or just buffers and buffers.. Thanks Craig > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Clark [mailto:dan(a)scarfies.net] > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 6:04 PM > To: Simon Lyall; nznog > Subject: Re: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy > > mine's awesome, streaming down nicely (courtney) here in Dunedin on a 2MB > Clear Domestic Frame. > > Cheers, _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains information that is both confidential and possibly legally privileged. No reader may make any use of its content unless that use is approved by Deloitte separately in writing. Any opinion, advice or information contained in this e-mail and any attachment(s) is to be treated as interim and provisional only and for the strictly limited purpose of the recipient as communicated to us. Neither the recipient nor any other person should act upon it without our separate written authorisation of reliance. Deloitte is a member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu is a Swiss Verein (association), and, as such, neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member firms has any liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member firms is a separate and independent legal entity operating under the names "Deloitte," "Deloitte & Touche," "Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu," or other related names. Services are provided by the member firms and not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein. If you have received this message in error please notify us immediately and destroy this message. Thank you. Deloitte Internet: www.deloitte.co.nz

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APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Simon Lyall 02 Dec '03

02 Dec '03

The main website just manages to load but the streams are overloaded to the point of being broken. Hows it look to everyone else? -- Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

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Discover Web-based teaching / train
by Derek Lee 01 Dec '03

01 Dec '03

Would you like to advance your professional career through the development of new Web-based skills? Simon Fraser University in partnership with TELEStraining has developed an innovative and exciting online program to teach participants how to design, produce, and teach online courses. The Certificate in Web-Based Instruction (CWI) combines both conceptual and technical skills for teaching and learning online. Participants learn to create their own online courses using a delivery platform of choice after examining various commercial and open source systems. The program uses conferencing, chat, video, video, and mail to cover current eLearning topics. A maximum of 20 participants supported by 2 instructors will work in an online collaborative environment. On Friday, December 12th at 11:00-11:30 pm PST (GMT -08:00) there will be a Webcast featuring the instructors of the Certificate in Web-Based Instruction (CWI). Participants of the Webcast can interact with the instructors and ask questions about this 24-week program offered entirely online. Please register to participate in the live Webcast by visiting www.sfu.ca/lidc/telestraining. Our next Webcasts are scheduled for: a.. Wednesday, December 17th at 11:00-11:30am PST (GMT -8:00) b.. Monday, January 5, 2004 at 11:00-11:30am PST (GMT -8:00) c.. Thursday, January 8, 2004 at 11:00-11:30am PST (GMT -8:00). For more information please contact Jill Jodrey from Simon Fraser University's Learning and Instructional Development Centre via email at jajodrey(a)sfu.ca or by telephone at 604-268-6728. Sincerely, Derek Lee Communication Officer Certificate In Web-based Instruction

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LOTR Webcam and netgate
by Richard J. Fairhall 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

It looks like netgate didnt peer with citylink for the Lord of the Rings webcams which means that anybody on Fast IP Direct Jetstream cannot access them. This is just another example of the pathetic attitude some companies have to both their users and peering nowdays. Regards, Richard.

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RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Simon Byrnand 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

At 17:24 1/12/2003 +1300, Michael Bordignon wrote: > > Can someone post some links to these other streams ? Thanks. > >http://www.r2.co.nz/20031201/ > >I can see the 384kb/sec stream perfectly (mostly, apart from some buffering) >now, webcams are pretty much ok now too. Yep, both are ok here too, the 384Kb stream is playing smoothly and the webcams are as good as they ever were...(that is to say, 2 - 4 frames per second and too far away to make out any faces ;-) Regards, Simon

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RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Neil Gardner 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

I'm getting perfect results on courtenay once it manages to connect (Took ages - over a minute) ... Perhaps limited number of streams supported at some link? Same deal for reading... -- Cheers - Neil Gardner Networking and Security Support Engineer Renaissance Brands (09) 968-3681 / (021) 746-345 -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Monday, 1 December 2003 4:37 p.m. To: 'Craig Whitmore' Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy http://palantir.citylink.co.nz/courtenay/ (on APE) is getting too overloaded now at times.. missing pictures /page cannot be found errors etc :-( > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:31 PM > To: 'Simon Lyall' > Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy > > Connected via APE. > > http://palantir.citylink.co.nz/courtenay/ works well about 2-3 fps > http://palantir.citylink.co.nz/reading/ works well (except looks like > has a little bit of water on the camera) > > Any of the R2 broadcasts either don't work or only has R2 advertising > on them and repeats.. (too overloaded?) > > The NZOOM feeds don't play at all :-( _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Michael Bordignon 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

> The main website just manages to load but the streams are > overloaded to the point of being broken. > > Hows it look to everyone else? Very slow.. We peer at WIX and I can ping palantir.citylink (with 2ms replies) but it seems (i think) that Apache (or however they're doing it) is mega overloaded. Michael

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Re: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Jamie Baddeley 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

was Go, Go, od, G, ood, G, G, , No, Now, B, a, Ba, Bad. Liv Tyler looks lovely when she's not stuttering and jerking around. 384 kbps now starting to resemble the mjpeg. jamie >>> Simon Lyall <simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz> 1/12/2003 4:16:36 PM >>> The main website just manages to load but the streams are overloaded to the point of being broken. Hows it look to everyone else? -- Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by mark.harris＠ssc.govt.nz 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

Agreed. They come and go, but they go more than they come. > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Lyall [mailto:simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz] > Sent: 01 December 2003 16:17 > To: nznog > Subject: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy > > > > The main website just manages to load but the streams are > overloaded to > the point of being broken. > > Hows it look to everyone else? > > -- > Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz > "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT. > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog >

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Re: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Ewen McNeill 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

In message <Pine.LNX.4.56.0312011612240.8002(a)green.darkmere.gen.nz>, Simon Lyall writes: >The main website just manages to load but the streams are overloaded to >the point of being broken. In Wellington (across WIX) I can see: - the flick motion Axis thing, but only inside IE which uses the plugin (the javascript stuff is just completely overloaded); - the 128Kbps stream (but not the 384Kbps stream) Which is sort of okay. But some things seem to be struggling under the load. I guess in theory there's another set of hardware in Auckland seeing different load. Ewen

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. A face-to-face gathering is to take place in Hamilton on January 29 and 30 2004, hosted by the WAND group. Registration is open now, and a draft programme is due out shortly. See http://www.nznog.org/ for more details. Also see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/about.html if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Internet Exchanges See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. See http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the Wellington Internet Exchange. And possibly http://www.citylink.co.nz/information/news/nr1068413489.html . About This Mailing List This list has around six hundred addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Alcatel NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. One way to search the archive is to use google and prefix your search with site:list.waikato.ac.nz . Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Peering question
by Juha Saarinen 30 Nov '03

30 Nov '03

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/UNID/8E589BD9394A5141CC256DEB00084747?O… 'Thompson also uses a different terminology to describe peering. "It's a much abused term. Peering really only happens between companies of a similar size. What we're talking about is interconnection." ' Is this the generally accepted definition of peering? -- Juha

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Sale of Domainz
by DPF 28 Nov '03

28 Nov '03

Notice of the sale of Domainz is being sent by post to ISPs, but a quick e-mail here may also prove effective in reaching any interested purchasers. The advert relating to the sale of Domainz is at http://www.internetnz.net.nz/sale-of-domainz-nbr-ad.pdf, as per the announcement below. All inquiries are best directed to Tim Russell of Deloitte Corporate Finance at the details below. DPF On Fri, 30 May 2003 13:35:44 +1200, Peter Macaulay <exedir(a)internetnz.net.nz> wrote: >Further to our earlier announcements, the public aspect of the sale of >Domainz is under way. An advertisement is in today's (Friday 29 May) >National Business Review. A copy will be posted on the web site at 1830 >tonight. >Feel free to pass on this information to any parties that may have a >genuine interest. The contact is >Tim Russell >+64 9 303 0857 >timrussell(a)deloitte.co.nz > >-- >Peter Macaulay >Executive Director >InternetNZ >Direct +64 4 495 2113 -- E-mail: david(a)farrar.com ICQ: 29964527 MSN: dpf666(a)hotmail.com

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lotr webcam in fast forward?
by Barry Murphy 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

Anyone else seeing the courtney cam in fastforward? Does 2second+ per second. Look at the time at the top of the screen, also notice the way people walk. Had this problem from corporate lan at work and also from home on 128k jetstart. Barry

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RE: [nznog] Peering question
by Donald Neal 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On > Behalf Of Ewan Cowie > Sent: Friday, 28 November 2003 10:36 > To: NZ NOG > Subject: RE: [nznog] Peering question > > > What interests me is this statement. > > "Throughout 2002, however, the Commission received complaints > from ISPs who were excluded from the domestic peering > agreements. Generally, the complaints concerned the fact that > none of the Tier 1 service providers paid for use of the > complainants' networks for data transmission yet the > complainants were required to pay fees to use the Tier 1s' networks". > > The Commerce Commission is bound to find similar opinions > locally as the ACCC did in Australia. If this turns into a > poo fight, will everyone just end up charging everyone for > "interconnection" just to avoid the complexities that the > peering issue raises? There also remains the question of the effect on the landscape both politically and technically if the Commerce Commission does proceed to mandate unbundled "Public Data Network Backhaul" among other things, as proposed in their September draft report. I'd hesitate to predict doom at this stage, in part because accurate predications of any kind are a bit of a challenge. Especially when they're about the future. Donald Neal | "They won't wobble. They won't! Technical Specialist | I shall lean against them Operations Engineering | myself, and I'm 6ft 6in. I will Integration & Services Divn. | personally eliminate wobble." Alcatel NZ Ltd | All opinions mine only. | - Russell T. Davies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] Peering question
by Ewan Cowie 27 Nov '03

27 Nov '03

What interests me is this statement. "Throughout 2002, however, the Commission received complaints from ISPs who were excluded from the domestic peering agreements. Generally, the complaints concerned the fact that none of the Tier 1 service providers paid for use of the complainants' networks for data transmission yet the complainants were required to pay fees to use the Tier 1s' networks". The Commerce Commission is bound to find similar opinions locally as the ACCC did in Australia. If this turns into a poo fight, will everyone just end up charging everyone for "interconnection" just to avoid the complexities that the peering issue raises? Should this occur it is going to boost cost for the consumer (assuming that ISPs aim to retain the same profit margin - which I am sure many will)and could have negative effects on market growth, and the spread of Internet technology/connectivity in NZ. Of course nothing bad may happen at all, but today I am prophesying doom. Doom Ewan Cowie -----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces+Ewan.Cowie=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces+Ewan.Cowie=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Juha Saarinen Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 8:50 AM Cc: NZ NOG Subject: Re: [nznog] Peering question Juha Saarinen wrote: > http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/UNID/8E589BD9394A5141CC256DEB00084 > 747?OpenDocument A mate spotted this one: 'Thompson points to overseas markets where interconnection and peering are well-established practices. "If you look at the US, the likes of WorldCom or UUNet peer with each other, but they charge smaller players for interconnection."' Yes, I can well imagine that WCOM and UUNET would "peer with each other". ;-) -- Juha _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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LoTR auckland webcam streams
by Simon Blake 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

Hi all Could somebody in Auckland who peers at APE and recieves 202.7.4.x/24 from the route servers please direct a browser at http://palantir.citylink.co.nz/courtenay/ and http://palantir.citylink.co.nz/reading/ and tell me if you see a particularly miserable piece of courtenay place weather. I believe they're both going, but the anycast makes it a little harder than usual to test. Cheers Si

2 3

Easynet.nl
by Matthew G Brown 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

Heads up for people using any of the easynet.nl RBL's , All services will be disabled on 1st Dec PST . Best regards Matthew G Brown B & R Holdings LIMITED Nelson, New Zealand DDI: + 64 3 544 9116 MOB: 027 4807731 http://www.brh.co.nz http://www.backupserver.co.nz

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Peering at the APE and WIX - was Re: Irked with TelstraClear
by Andy Linton 26 Nov '03

26 Nov '03

I posted some notes yesterday about peering with the APE and WIX route servers and gave a link for application forms which wasn't as useful as it might have been. For reference the forms are at: http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=ape.tmpl http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=wix.tmpl Joe Abley posted some ideas on peering - one obvious one that he hasn't gone the whole distance with is that if many of the small/medium players work together they will be in a better position to negotiate peering with the two large telcos. Consider the stories here: http://www.tomsdomain.com/aesop/id17.htm

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ICANN's Legacy? - The threat to universal Internet connectivity
by Jeff Williams 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

All, See: http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/21/46FEtrouble_1.html?s=feature The threat to universal Internet connectivity Can -- and should -- blockers, spammers, and domain name overlords be stopped? By David L. Margulius Thank you David for this breath or fresh air, honest evaluation, and interesting report.. Someday maybe Vint, and that "Crowed" will "Get it"... But in the mean time it may be time to throw the rascals out and have a new and inclusive beginning?? Will the NTIA take heed? Will Telstra and AT&T also take heed?? Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!) "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" - Pierre Abelard "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801

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RE: [nznog] Peering Issue - from a business point of view
by Paul Adshead 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

And then if if Telecom did join in and on-charged the more expensive Intl bw, how many customers would end up with Telecom bills like the one linked to below?? http://mike.net.nz/stuff/jetstream.jpg (Not mine by the way.) Paul Adshead Network & Systems OTL Software Ltd -----Original Message----- From: Matt Camp [mailto:gargoyle(a)noise.net.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 26 November 2003 15:29 To: Tikiri Wicks Cc: 'nznog' Subject: Re: [nznog] Peering Issue - from a business point of view [Everything in this email is my own uninformed personal opinion, and has absolutely nothing to do with TelstraClear's official position on anything at all. I'm not involved in any of this stuff, so don't quote me on anything, kthx] On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Tikiri Wicks wrote: > In that case what about if all the small ISP's as a group peer with one > layer 3 switch at the APE and another one at the WIX. This way Telstra would > have to peer with everyone or not peer with anyone. Ah, but what happens when they choose not to peer with this group? And then what happens when Telecom takes a similar line? All of a sudden you've got a bunch of ISP's who are paying for international bandwidth through one of the other providers like AT&T, probably per byte, and they're having to use that bw to transit domestic traffic to everyone else. The problem is that the people making these decisions DO have reasons for making these changes... the reasons may be totally commercially based and have nothing to do with the feelgood ethos of the internet, but if the suits at TelstraClear are having those thoughts, I'll bet you a dollar there is someone in a suit at Telecom thinking "hey... if they can do it, so can we... and if we both do it, then everyone else will HAVE to buy a connection". > If all the non Telco ISP's were to be lumped into one pile that would be a > lot of such internet services and web sites. But remember, only the people who do not already have a TelstraClear service are potentially at risk of having their peering cut (according to jsr's quoted statement from Mathew Bolland).... How many of the non-telco ISP's in NZ don't have a TelstraClear link? How about if you add in the theory that Telecom takes the same line? All of a sudden your group of people is a whole lot smaller. While its nice to think that many ISP's will join your group trying to force peering, I think you'll find that many of them are still run by people who are more concerned about their business continuing and can't afford to take commercial risks just to uphold the ethos. > If all of these were as a group with rules that state peer with the all or > do not peer at all. Essentially a gigabit Layer 3 switch at the NEW > exchange. What this means is that parties would not peer with individual > small ISP's rather they would peer with the entire group. aka... the route servers? > The Telstra consumer would most probably switch to his friends connection. I think there would be more to it than that. Especially if Telecom took the same line, thus forcing all the non-telco ISP's to use more expensive bw, and charge their customers international rates for what should be domestic traffic. I haven't been involved with any of this peering stuff, but my feeling is that perhaps (as Tony implied), there is a lot more to this than people realise, and in fact its not just TelstraClear trying to be big and bad. --- Matt Camp _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Re: [nznog] Peering Issue - from a business point of view
by Tikiri Wicks 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

p.s. I have NO affiliation with Maxnet I just use an email address from them. > What would that achieve? It won't solve the problem that John Russell > brought up. There is NO need to set up any other peering exchanges. > > You are confusing the issue. Get someone at the maxnet > nog to explain it to you I'm not trying to look at it from a technical point. What I mean is purely from a business point of view. In that case what about if all the small ISP's as a group peer with one layer 3 switch at the APE and another one at the WIX. This way Telstra would have to peer with everyone or not peer with anyone. New Zealand Internet consumers have great interest in other Internet related services and web sites in New Zealand. For example the earlier reference to nzdating.co.nz A large portion of these New Zealand based ineternet services and websites are physically hosted by ISP's other than Telstra and Telecom. Not to mention the end consumers themselves. If all the non Telco ISP's were to be lumped into one pile that would be a lot of such internet services and web sites. If all of these were as a group with rules that state peer with the all or do not peer at all. Essentially a gigabit Layer 3 switch at the NEW exchange. What this means is that parties would not peer with individual small ISP's rather they would peer with the entire group. In this scenario what would happen ? A Telstra consumer tries to access www.nzdating.co.nz what happens ? it is not accessible for them. The next day (or same day) he/she whines to his/her friends about nzdating not beign there. But his/her friend is on a dialup to ICONZ / Slingshot / _____ and they could access the site with no hassles. Instant conclusion is something is wrong with Telstra. The Telstra consumer would most probably switch to his friends connection. The key is to achieve critical mass. You guys can only achieve this critical mass as a group. Not as individual companies as you are too small alone to make any difference. Only as a group. Cheers Tikiri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lin Nah" <lin(a)darkmere.gen.nz> To: "Tikiri Wicks" <tcwicks(a)maxnet.co.nz> Cc: "Tony Wicks" <nzog(a)road.gen.nz> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > HI Tikiri > > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Tikiri Wicks wrote: > > I realize that the APE and the WIX already exist but what I'm talking about > > is setting up a second peering point with different game rules. Namely Give > > as much as you take > What would that achieve? It won't solve the problem that John Russell > brought up. There is NO need to set up any other peering exchanges. > > You are confusing the issue. Get someone at the maxnet > nog to explain it to you > > > What you guys don't seem to understand is that if all the smaller ISP's > > Maxnet, IHUG, Slingshot, etc.... were all combined into one (big lump) that > > is probably way more end consumers than what Telstra has. And probably > > enough to get Telecom thinking as well > > regards > lin > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony Wicks" <nzog(a)road.gen.nz> > > To: "'Tikiri Wicks'" <tcwicks(a)maxnet.co.nz> > > Cc: "'nznog'" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:14 AM > > Subject: RE: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > > > > > > I hate to mention the obvious Tikiri, but that already exsists, they are > > called APE and WIX. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tikiri Wicks [mailto:tcwicks(a)maxnet.co.nz] > > Sent: Wednesday, 26 November 2003 11:13 a.m. > > To: Andy Linton; nznog > > Subject: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > > > > Just a thought here > > > > Since most ISP's in NZ seem to be in agreement over this. What if > > instead of just blowing off steam: > > > > Everyone joins hands and sets up two (or more) peering exchanges. One in > > Auckland and one in Wellington. Then everyone simply drops all peering with > > Telstra (and / or Telecom if and where relevant) and interconnect through > > the two (or more) exchange points. The idea is that no one would pay for > > anything except for the cost of connectiong yourselves to the exchange > > points. Whether this be via tangent / united network / citylink / some big > > SDH radio link / microwave / a whole bunch of people running to the > > exchanges with buckets fileld with packets :) > > > > Peering would be voluntary for anyone and on the condition that each > > provides the same amount of bandwidth under the same conditions from their > > network to the exchange as they do from teh exchange to their network. > > > > That should keep players like Telecom and Telstra from trying to > > manipulate the market. > > > > If Telstra want to peer they would be forced to do so at the same > > conditions that apply to everyone else > > > > Also the costs of interconnectivity between the exchange points could be > > borne by the members based on some simple equation such as for example a > > ratio based on the amount of bandwidth with which they connect to the > > exchanges. Fill in the blanks here ________ > > > > Finally I would think that this would be a great opportunity for > > operators like tangent who have fibre running between the two (or more) > > hypothetical exchanges. > > > > Cheers > > > > Tikiri > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Linton" <asjl(a)citylink.co.nz> > > To: "nznog" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:53 AM > > Subject: [nznog] Peering at the APE and WIX - was Re: Irked with > > TelstraClear > > > > > > > I posted some notes yesterday about peering with the APE and WIX route > > > servers and gave a link for application forms which wasn't as useful as > > > it might have been. For reference the forms are at: > > > > > > http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=ape.tmpl > > > http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=wix.tmpl > > > > > > Joe Abley posted some ideas on peering - one obvious one that he hasn't > > > gone the whole distance with is that if many of the small/medium players > > > work together they will be in a better position to negotiate peering > > > with the two large telcos. > > > > > > Consider the stories here: > > > > > > http://www.tomsdomain.com/aesop/id17.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > >

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RE: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution
by Donald Neal 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On > Behalf Of Tikiri Wicks > Sent: Wednesday, 26 November 2003 11:13 > To: Andy Linton; nznog > Subject: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > > > Just a thought here > > Since most ISP's in NZ seem to be in agreement over this. What if > instead of just blowing off steam: > > Everyone joins hands and sets up two (or more) peering > exchanges. One in > Auckland and one in Wellington. Then everyone simply drops > all peering with > Telstra (and / or Telecom if and where relevant) and > interconnect through > the two (or more) exchange points. As the monthly posting to this list says, >Internet Exchanges >See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering >Exchange and those connected there, http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the >Wellington Internet Exchange. Donald Neal | "They won't wobble. They won't! Technical Specialist | I shall lean against them Operations Engineering | myself, and I'm 6ft 6in. I will Integration & Services Divn. | personally eliminate wobble." Alcatel NZ Ltd | All opinions mine only. | - Russell T. Davies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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(no subject)
by Ben Martel 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

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RE: [nznog] Irked with TelstraClear
by J S Russell 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Neil Gardner wrote: > JSR, Do you have any numbers or names of people that this sort of > (justified, and for gosh sake, please be polite when doing it) enquiry > would be best directed towards? Personally, were I a TelstraClear customer, I would be inclined to treat it as a fault, yes. And I would guess that fault reports should be sent though normal account management channels. JSR -- John S Russell | Big Geek | Doing geek stuff.

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Re: [nznog] Irked with TelstraClear
by Simon Lyall 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, J S Russell wrote: > Nope - as I outlined earlier, we treated it as damage and routed around > it. Technology triumphs over stupidity! Huzzah! Hmm, still some customers of TesltraClear [1] might be seeing less than optimal connectivity to Iconz hosted sites. Why not approach them and suggest that they get direct connectivity to APE,WIX or wherever? If they are paying $25 per 64Kbits/sec per month then they don't need much bandwidth to start saving money. As a bonus, next time their bandwidth negotiations come around they'll be able to pick from any ISP that's APE connected for their bandwidth. Here are a few possibles that are fairly big but appear (from a quick glance) to be only domestically routed via TesltraClear currently: aut.ac.nz auckland.ac.nz vuw.ac.nz waikato.ac.nz iserve.co.nz actrix.co.nz scarfies.net wave.co.nz I would guess a few admins from there are already on this list, some might already be getting complaints about domestic connectivity. I'd be interested in their take on the situation. [1] My Spell checker keeps trying to substitute "Testicular" for "TelstraClear" , then again it also tried to do "thug" for "ihug" :) -- Simon J. Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

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[Fwd: RE: [nznog] Changes to Telecom ADSL Network]
by kyle carter 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

I personally am happy with this topic being discussed on list.. however being an anonymous looking sender is a bit off putting. Many of the topic on this list i dont have a problem with, but i do like to know is going on with regards to the internet in NZ. This is a topic i have been asked about by many people i know who arent gamers but have been experiencing many issues with the latency of their connections when nearing max bandwidth usage. I did not experience any problems with the previous traffic shaping with the dropping of packets, however i have experienced some very weird issues with the new packet shaping when nearing the bandwidth limits of my jetstart connection. On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 07:29, Craig Spiers wrote: > Why was this posted to NZNOG? > > If you have gripes with telecom, take it up with telecom? > > I personally don't have a problem with the changes telecom have made.. And I > believe it hasn't been done on purpose, but a side effect from the changing > of equipment vendors.. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anonymous User [mailto:ominona(a)emailaccount.com] > Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2003 6:26 p.m. > To: adsl(a)lists.unixathome.org; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] Changes to Telecom ADSL Network > > An interesting topic for discussion: > > Telecom is installing new equipment in its ADSL network, which handles > traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. > Overview > Telecom is installing new equipment in its network, which handles traffic > congestion in a slightly different way than previously.

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Changes to Telecom ADSL Network
by Anonymous User 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

An interesting topic for discussion: Telecom is installing new equipment in its ADSL network, which handles traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. Overview Telecom is installing new equipment in its network, which handles traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. When a traffic burst exceeds the rated capacity of that connection, any overflow data is now queued temporarily and sent as soon as the congestion is cleared - normally within milliseconds. This change should enhance the experience for most Internet users, however some gaming customers may have increased sensitivity to other applications running in the background. To achieve the best online game playing experience, Telecom is working to ensure that the connections are optimised and queuing is minimised. Users wanting the best gaming experience should avoid running other applications or PCs on the same connection or upgrade their connection to a higher speed to ensure queues are minimised. Frequently Asked Questions: Q. Why can multiple users on one connection now not connect when playing games? A. Telecom is installing new equipment in the network, which handles traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. When a traffic burst exceeds the rated capacity of that connection, any overflow data is now queued temporarily and sent as soon as the congestion is cleared - normally within milliseconds. Q. Why has Telecom made this change? A. This change means that packets of data, which previously may have been dropped, will now reach their destination. This change should enhance the experience for most Internet users, however some gaming customers may have increased sensitivity to other applications running in the background. Q. This is obviously having a negative effect on my games experience - why don't you change it back? A. For the majority of customers, the new queue shaping provides them with a better Internet experience. Telecom is working to ensure that the connections are optimised and queuing is minimised. Users wanting the best gaming experience should avoid running other applications or PCs on the same connection or upgrade their existing connection to a higher speed to ensure queues are minimised. Q. Why didn't you notify customers of this change? A. Telecom regularly makes changes to its Network and indeed, announced earlier this year that it was overhauling its JetStream portfolio. With so many changes being made in various parts of the Network, it is impractical to notify all customers whenever a change is made. Q. Isn't this just a ploy to get us on to your 256k plans where we have to pay for all traffic? A. Customers are free to choose the most appropriate plan for their needs. The Xtra JetStream 256k and Full speed plans obviously offer customers a bigger pipe, so the chances of packets getting dropped or queued are less. ~ John Doe _____________________________________________________________ Free, simple, fast, memorable email Become you(a)EmailAccount.com at http://www.emailaccount.com/

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Telehousing
by Craig Spiers 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

Anyone know of any telehousing facilitys in auckland CBD? Must be on the citylink or tangent / united networks fiber networks.. Cheers!

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2.4GHz operators - Lincoln/Henderson area
by Michael Hallager 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

Hi, Could any operators of 2.4GHz outdoor networks in the Lincoln/Henderson area please contact me offlist for mutual co-operation in channel usage. Michael Hallager Managing Director Networkstuff Limited URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz Networkstuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. E-Mail: michael @ networkstuff.co.nz Member of the NZ Open Source Society. Member of the Auckland VHF Group. Amateur radio callsign: ZL1VMH.

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ENUM Seminar
by Peter Macaulay 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Just a reminder for those of you who would like to attend, you can still enrol. The $50 is primarily for food. The Number Administration Deed (NAD) Management Committee and Internet NZ are holding a joint seminar on ENUM on Monday 24 November 2003 from 9.00 am - 5.00 pm. The venue is the Level 2 West Lounge at Westpactrust Stadium in Wellington. Programme Tony Holmes of BT is attending as guest speaker. He intends to discuss the following topics: 1. Introduction to ENUM. 2. ENUM Specifications, Rules and Recommendations. 3. An overview of what's happening across the globe. 4. Experience, issues and problems from the UK ENUM trial. 5. The focus for New Zealand - discussion on 'what needs to happen next'. Representatives from the Ministry of Economic Development will also attend to present their views on ENUM. Cost $50.00 per person, which includes the full day ENUM seminar plus morning tea, lunch and afternoon tea. Registration and Contacts Jennifer Neeley (M-co) Phone: 04 498 0026 Fax: 04 473 6950 Email: jennifer.neeley(a)m-co.co.nz -- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

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ICONZ Domestic Peering Update
by John Johnston 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

ICONZ have updated their domestic peering advertisements. Any that currently peer with ICONZ please update your prefix lists with attached file or use URL supplied. If there is anyone who would like to peer with ICONZ across APE or WIX please send an email to noc(a)iconz.net http://www.iconz.co.nz/prefix/ Regards ICONZ NOC Email: noc(a)iconz.net Phone: 09 977 3500

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Xtra reverse DNS's
by Michael Hallager 18 Nov '03

18 Nov '03

Hi all, People who are receiving IP space from Global Gateway would be well advsied to check that their IP addresses have not been hijacked by Xtra: bash-2.05b# nslookup 210.55.169.1 Note: nslookup is deprecated and may be removed from future releases. Consider using the `dig' or `host' programs instead. Run nslookup with the `-sil[ent]' option to prevent this message from appearing. Server: 210.55.108.130 Address: 210.55.108.130#53 Non-authoritative answer: 1.169.55.210.in-addr.arpa name = 210-55-169-1.ipnets.xtra.co.nz. Authoritative answers can be found from: 169.55.210.in-addr.arpa nameserver = alien.xtra.co.nz. 169.55.210.in-addr.arpa nameserver = terminator.xtra.co.nz. bash-2.05b# Reminds me of the "old days" when Xtra started up.... Michael Hallager Systems Administrator Vivid Computers Ltd Managing Director Networkstuff Ltd

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NZNOG '04
by Tony McGregor 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Hi All The NZNOG '04 arrangements are coming along well and registration is now open at www.nznog.org. We're pleased to have Geoff Houston (Telstra Aust/APNIC) and Philip Smith (CISCO) as invited speakers. See the conference web pages for more details. Other details about the conference, including the the on campus accommodation etc are also on the web page. It's still possible to put in a talk or tutorial proposal. Please send them to talks(a)nznog.org. We're about to send out letters to various folks asking for sponsorship. We're not looking for lots of money, just ways to add value to the conference through materials, extra international speakers, the bar, etc. If you have any contacts that we could write to please let me know. It's a huge help if people sign up early. The conference fee is lower if you sign up early. Also, there is only limited accommodation with in-room network access, if you want that I suggest you sign up quick! Tony

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New IANA IPv4 allocations and bogon updates: 83/8 and 84/8
by Rob Thomas 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Hi, team. [ Apologies to those who have received this post in other fora. ] The numerous Team Cymru bogon projects have been updated to reflect the following IANA allocations on November 15, 2003: 83/8 Nov 03 RIPE NCC 84/8 Nov 03 RIPE NCC IANA allocations change over time, so please check regularly to ensure you have the latest filters if you are not using the bogon BGP feed(s). We do announce updates to the bogon projects to the FIRST community, as well as on lists such as NANOG, isp-routing, isp-security, isp-bgp, cisco-nsp, and bogon-announce. We can not stress this point strongly enough - these allocations change. If you do not adjust your filters, you will be unable to access perhaps large portions of the Internet. Worse yet, you may end up blocking access for people who transit through you. Please do not blindly apply any filters or blocks to your network without carefully considering the ramifications of doing so. As a point of reference, the master Bogon Reference Page can be found here: http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/index.html A quick summary of the documents and projects that have been updated include the following: HTTP The Bogon List The Text Bogon List, Unaggregated The Text Bogon List, Aggregated Secure BIND Template Secure IOS Template (Cisco) Secure BGP Template (Cisco) Secure JUNOS Template (Juniper) Secure JUNOS BGP Template (Juniper) Ingress Prefix Filter Templates, Loose and Strict (Cisco) Ingress Prefix Filter Template, Loose (Juniper) Ingress Prefix Filter Template, Strict (Juniper) BGP Bogon route-server * RADb fltr-unallocated fltr-martian fltr-bogons DNS Bogon (bogons.cymru.com) zone Monitoring Bogon prefix monitoring * All of the bogon peers have received the appropriate BGP prefix updates. Please feel free to contact Team Cymru with any comments, questions, or concerns. Thanks! Rob, for Team Cymru. -- Rob Thomas http://www.cymru.com ASSERT(coffee != empty);

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Re: Weird spam
by Richard Cox 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

On 17 Nov 2003 11:25 UTC "Barry Murphy" <barry(a)unix.co.nz> wrote: | I received the same message 8 times to the same address with about | 2-3 per hour. My spamassasin picked them up but the strange thing was | they all came from different IP addresses and I couldn't traceroute | any of them... You've assumed the handoff between received lines was valid; it wasn't. The "earlier" received line in each case was totally bogus: there is now a variety of custom "spamware" that forges a Received: header and carefully matches the fake details to the reverse DNS of the proxy or trojan machine that the spammer is actually sending from. That makes it almost impossible to know that the line is is in fact forged, unless you spot some little detail that they get wrong ... like (as in some of the cases that you quoted), the fact that the fake sending IP in the forged header is in a block that's either unannounced or completely unroutable! | IP addresses they were sent from: 99.27.67.200 IANA Reserved 202.163.151.24 Assigned but not announced 89.87.209.213 IANA Reserved 112.188.234.68 IANA Reserved 45.38.78.200 Interop Show Network 244.128.164.67 Unroutable 168.80.80.67 UUNET Internet Africa 64.215.105.194 64.215.105.194 | the messages were stopped as they were listed in blacklists. Blocklist tests are normally done on the most recent Received: line, as unless that line is OK, previous lines cannot usually be trusted. | The thing I don't understand is that there was no consistency, all | the emails from different IP's, all different forged header fields, | all not tracerouteable and within 30 minutes of each other to an | address only listed on a new zealand website. I can traceroute to some of the IPs you listed so it may be that traceroute packets have been blocked at your gateway. There are currently very some good reasons why network administrators do that! Because of the level of filtering, spammers now try to send the same mail from different proxies/zombies to be sure of getting it through. Different IPs are in different blocklists, and spammers can't tell what blocklist your ISP - or that of any other victim - uses. They can't even tell whether mail gets through at all because many systems are now configured to drop the mail rather than reject it. I won't pass comment on that policy, but we all know it happens. Hence to get better delivery figures, spammers now have to send out multiple copies. Their systems randomise all the variable factors - fake mail client, fake origin, fake sender name, random subject line etc, and loads of random garbage text in the spam body to foil any checksum detection of bulk mailing. | Weird, sounds very much like the spam system explained on the list | not too long ago. While it may well use that system, multiple proxy/trojan sending boxes are now becoming a standard spammer-modus-operandi! Joe Abley <jabley(a)isc.org> replied: | It seems to be fairly commonplace these days for (a) spam to be | vectored through widely-distributed sets of open proxies or infected | windows drones and (b) for unallocated or normally unadvertised space | to be advertised transiently in order to provide temporary addresses | to bind SMTP clients to. (a) is normal, for sure, but (b) - although theoretically trivial to do - is not yet in common use. Bogus announcements would need to be visible every place the spammer wanted to send to, and would then be visible at the route-collectors which report into systems like RIPE's RIS server and that in turn would allow them to be identified from a lookup at http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/np/ris/index.html -- Richard Cox \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Contribute to the SpamCon Legal Fund!! http://www.spamcon.org/legalfund/

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Weird spam
by Barry Murphy 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Hey guys, Anyone else receive this subject on the 14th... "AMERICAN STOCK MARKET: TRHL Retains Sky Investor Relations...edita", where edita was changed with multiple names. Not strange that I received spam, however I received the same message 8 times to the same address with about 2-3 per hour. My spamassasin picked them up but the strange thing was they all came from different IP addresses and I couldn't traceroute any of them... All of them stop at 202.37.246.18 (Global-gateway) eg. traceroute 89.87.209.213 traceroute to 89.87.209.213 (89.87.209.213), 64 hops max, 44 byte packets 1 gateway (219.88.241.241) 1.679 ms 2.403 ms 1.358 ms 2 fe0-0.cr1.idc.orcon.net.nz (219.88.242.250) 0.863 ms 0.872 ms 0.852 ms 3 fe-1.qos2.idc.orcon.net.nz (219.88.242.226) 1.134 ms 1.004 ms 1.128 ms 4 219.88.242.233 (219.88.242.233) 1.774 ms 1.906 ms 1.567 ms 5 202.50.245.33 (202.50.245.33) 39.962 ms 93.651 ms 6.643 ms 6 ge-0-3-0-6.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (202.37.246.18) 6.165 ms !N^C Ip addresses they were sent from: 99.27.67.200 202.163.151.24 89.87.209.213 112.188.234.68 45.38.78.200 244.128.164.67 168.80.80.67 64.215.105.194 In all cases the messages were stopped as they were listed in blacklists. RCVD_IN_NJABL (0.9 points) RBL: Received via a relay in dnsbl.njabl.org [RBL check: found 45.38.78.200.dnsbl.njabl.org.,] [type: 127.0.0.9] RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL (0.5 points) RBL: Received via a relay in unconfirmed.dsbl.org [RBL check: found 45.38.78.200.unconfirmed.dsbl.org.] RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET (3.0 points) RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net [RBL check: found 45.38.78.200.bl.spamcop.net.] They were also stopped because of forged headers, some having forged froms, forged MUA Outlook, etc. The thing I don't understand is that there was no consistency, all the emails from different IP's, all different forged header fields, all not tracerouteable and within 30 minutes of eachother to an address only listed on a new zealand website. Weird, sounds very much like the spam system explained on the list not too long ago. Barry Murphy

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Understanding my traceroute?
by Jon Dean 16 Nov '03

16 Nov '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Everybody, I'm trying to get a better understanding of how the DSL network is integrated together in New Zealand. I'm hoping someone can help explain to me why their is such big latency gaps in some of the connections. Below is the output from a traceroute between me on Ihug Jetstart DSL and an Xtra Jetstream connection with a Static IP. 1 192.168.1.2 (192.168.1.2) 0.299 ms 0.148 ms 0.142 ms 2 203-118-173-1.adsl.ihug.co.nz (203.118.173.1) 56.506 ms 57.695 ms 60.022 ms Is 203.118.173.1 an Ihug router or a Telecom router? 3 192.168.253.225 (192.168.253.225) 66.866 ms 58.911 ms 61.027 ms 4 192.168.254.42 (192.168.254.42) 70.011 ms 69.028 ms 59.954 ms 5 v-93-tig-nz-akl-core-1.ihug.net (203.109.156.145) 70.147 ms 69.346 ms 68.020 ms 6 203-109-156-98.ihug.net (203.109.156.98) 69.904 ms 67.363 ms 71.046 ms 7 a5-0-0-40.akcr5.global-gateway.net.nz (202.37.245.165) 210.854 ms 203.399 ms 185.586 ms This is my real question... why is this such a big lag between 6 & 7. 140ms seems to be very high? Is there some type of bandwidth gap between Ihug and Global Gateway? Everything below this point is irrelevant.... Cheers, Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/uGYITV0Xs0S7UB4RAg8zAJ4yB4wn5iqCWgzhQpljznjnyeTiSQCfaDAu INl9jjcMXNgPbWST7gHB5kE= =qECf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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BreezeNet PRO Serial Adapter...
by Dan Clark 16 Nov '03

16 Nov '03

Hi all, Does anyone happen to have one of those 3 pin serial adapters for a BreezeNet Unit? Or know the pinouts. Please contact offlist. Kind Regards, Dan Clark DunedinWireless Scarfies.Net Ltd

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Apropos Spamcop, and 2day.com before that.
by Juha Saarinen 16 Nov '03

16 Nov '03

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/33724.html -- Juha

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Trademe contact?
by Simon Lyall 15 Nov '03

15 Nov '03

Has anyone got technical contact for trademe? I've tried their whois and 0900 numbers but their not operating today. -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz Ihug Ltd, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz

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Revamp of WIX website
by Andy Linton 15 Nov '03

15 Nov '03

We've redone the WIX website http://www.wix.net.nz/ and it now has links to the Looking Glass tool as well as some explanations of how we do things. I'm working on a similar revamp of the APE website and will announce in due course. andy

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Update to ihug prefixes
by Simon Lyall 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

We're updated our prefixes. Current list is attached or available at the following URL: http://www.ihug.net/ihug-prefix-list -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz Ihug Ltd, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz

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Re: [nznog] IPv6 Peering on the WIX
by Simon Lyall 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Joe Abley wrote: > If you want to be able to reach the rest of the IPv6 internet, you will > need a transit provider of some kind. Since it sounds like nobody in > New Zealand is offering IPv6 transit, you'll need to look outside the > country and gain v6 transit via a tunnel plumbed over IPv4. Sprint appear to provide a ipv6, it's via tunnels but they provide direct ipv4 connectivity into NZ so you don't have multiple providers. http://www.sprintv6.net/ http://www.sprintv6.net/Sprintv6.html "Sprint has IPv6 speaking routers in New York City, Washington DC, Seattle, Ft. Worth, and San Jose in the US, and routers in Brussels, Belgium, and Stockholm, Sweden, in Europe. Customers who wish to connect to Sprint's IPv6 backbone may do so, by building a tunnel from their CPE (or any device inside their network) to the nearest Sprint IPv6 router. " -- Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

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