- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time
by Dominic O'Hare 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

The owner of the site is in Ft Lauderdale, Florida. ----- Original Message ----- From: <nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:13 AM Subject: Nznog Digest, Vol 7, Issue 13 > Send Nznog mailing list submissions to > nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nznog-owner(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Nznog digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Conference Attendance (Andy Gardner) > 2. Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Peter Macaulay) > 3. RE: Abuse desk responses (Neil Gardner) > 4. Re: Abuse desk responses (Michael Hallager) > 5. Re: Abuse desk responses (Edward Yardley) > 6. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Dan Clark) > 7. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Keith Davidson) > 8. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Peter Macaulay) > 9. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Mark Thompson) > 10. Re: Abuse desk responses (Russell Fulton) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:28:38 -0500 > From: Andy Gardner <andy(a)navigator.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Conference Attendance > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <B273F2FC-AF72-11D7-93B2-000393ABF064(a)navigator.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > On Friday, July 4, 2003, at 05:07 AM, Keith Davidson wrote: > > > I'll also be at Unforum for a couple of days, just to rub noses with > > the > > penguin huggers :-) Look forward to putting some names to faces, > > and to > > heckling Joe Abley at every opportunity ... > > > Gee, and here I was thinking you were doing a talk on how to destroy > nz.general through incessant punning. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:59:02 +1200 > From: Peter Macaulay <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Subject: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > To: "members-discuss >> InternetNZ Members Discussion List" > <members-discuss(a)internetnz.net.nz>, nznog <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <3F07BAA6.2030505(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > -- > Peter Macaulay > Executive Director > InternetNZ > Direct +64 4 495 2113 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:08:46 +1200 > From: "Neil Gardner" <neil(a)neilnz.com> > Subject: RE: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <000001c341e1$f7806620$6b63a8c0(a)delta> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Steve Phillips [mailto:steve(a)focb.co.nz] > >Has anyone else here had problems with NZ ISP abuse complaint responses > ? > >mainly in response to SPAM reports where they refuse to do anything > until > >they get blacklisted but also covering network abuse (DOS type > scenario's > >and the like) ? > > Yep, although in most cases it appears to be from a lack of organisation > in getting the complaints to the right person rather than a systemic > neglect of the issue. Recently I tried for 2 weeks through proper > channels to get an obviously infected ADSL customer disabled and > informed of their problem, to no avail, and culminating in the Helpdesk > telling me that the Abuse people only worked form midnight to 8am a > couple of days a week!!!! > > Obviously what he meant was that the person that dealt with it in the > NOC was next rostered on for a midnight to 8am shift, but it's NOT what > he said. > > Anyway, I posted the details on this list and someone from the > appropriate ISP saw it and had the issue resolved in 30 minutes. > > But there should be some sort of internally monitored helpdesk with > escalation for complaints like that - I know of a number of (admittedly > corporate and not cheap - HEAT and Magic spring to mind) that do this > sort of thing very well). > > Out of interest, are any ISP reps here prepared to admit how they track > issues, specifically something like complaints to abuse(a)isp.co.nz where > there could be a lot of incoming jobs? > > Cheers - Neil G > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:18:51 +1200 > From: Michael Hallager <michael(a)networkstuff.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > To: "Neil Gardner" <neil(a)neilnz.com> > Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Message-ID: <200307062118.51406.michael(a)networkstuff.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, > > At Vivid Computers / Vivid Net, all abuse(a)vivid.net.nz email comes to myself > - as the Systems Administrator - for prompt action. > > Michael Hallager > Networkstuff Limited > http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > From: Steve Phillips [mailto:steve(a)focb.co.nz] > > > > >Has anyone else here had problems with NZ ISP abuse complaint responses > > > > ? > > > > >mainly in response to SPAM reports where they refuse to do anything > > > > until > > > > >they get blacklisted but also covering network abuse (DOS type > > > > scenario's > > > > >and the like) ? > > > > Yep, although in most cases it appears to be from a lack of organisation > > in getting the complaints to the right person rather than a systemic > > neglect of the issue. Recently I tried for 2 weeks through proper > > channels to get an obviously infected ADSL customer disabled and > > informed of their problem, to no avail, and culminating in the Helpdesk > > telling me that the Abuse people only worked form midnight to 8am a > > couple of days a week!!!! > > > > Obviously what he meant was that the person that dealt with it in the > > NOC was next rostered on for a midnight to 8am shift, but it's NOT what > > he said. > > > > Anyway, I posted the details on this list and someone from the > > appropriate ISP saw it and had the issue resolved in 30 minutes. > > > > But there should be some sort of internally monitored helpdesk with > > escalation for complaints like that - I know of a number of (admittedly > > corporate and not cheap - HEAT and Magic spring to mind) that do this > > sort of thing very well). > > > > Out of interest, are any ISP reps here prepared to admit how they track > > issues, specifically something like complaints to abuse(a)isp.co.nz where > > there could be a lot of incoming jobs? > > > > Cheers - Neil G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > -- > Michael Hallager > Managing Director > Networkstuff Limited > > http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > michael @ networkstuff.co.nz > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:58:57 +1200 > From: "Edward Yardley" <edward(a)edan.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <011501c343a5$37e58780$3d00000a(a)sebastian> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I've found the same thing with Paradise/Telstra Clear's responses. > > Edward. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <nznog(a)neilnz.com> > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:15 PM > Subject: RE: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Steve Phillips [mailto:steve(a)focb.co.nz] > > >Has anyone else here had problems with NZ ISP abuse complaint responses > > ? > > >mainly in response to SPAM reports where they refuse to do anything > > until > > >they get blacklisted but also covering network abuse (DOS type > > scenario's > > >and the like) ? > > > > Yep, although in most cases it appears to be from a lack of organisation > > in getting the complaints to the right person rather than a systemic > > neglect of the issue. Recently I tried for 2 weeks through proper > > channels to get an obviously infected ADSL customer disabled and > > informed of their problem, to no avail, and culminating in the Helpdesk > > telling me that the Abuse people only worked form midnight to 8am a > > couple of days a week!!!! > > > > Obviously what he meant was that the person that dealt with it in the > > NOC was next rostered on for a midnight to 8am shift, but it's NOT what > > he said. > > > > Anyway, I posted the details on this list and someone from the > > appropriate ISP saw it and had the issue resolved in 30 minutes. > > > > But there should be some sort of internally monitored helpdesk with > > escalation for complaints like that - I know of a number of (admittedly > > corporate and not cheap - HEAT and Magic spring to mind) that do this > > sort of thing very well). > > > > Out of interest, are any ISP reps here prepared to admit how they track > > issues, specifically something like complaints to abuse(a)isp.co.nz where > > there could be a lot of incoming jobs? > > > > Cheers - Neil G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:17:22 +1200 > From: "Dan Clark" <dan(a)scarfies.net> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > To: "Peter Macaulay" <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz>, "members-discuss >> > InternetNZ Members Discussion List" > <members-discuss(a)internetnz.net.nz>, "nznog" > <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <00be01c343a7$d49611b0$150210ac(a)morpheus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all, > Any examples of defaced sites??? > > Regards > Dan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Macaulay" <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz> > To: "members-discuss >> InternetNZ Members Discussion List" > <members-discuss(a)internetnz.net.nz>; "nznog" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 5:59 PM > Subject: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > > > > > > -- > > Peter Macaulay > > Executive Director > > InternetNZ > > Direct +64 4 495 2113 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:39:28 +1200 > From: "Keith Davidson" <keith(a)wise.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > To: "nznog" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <00d901c343aa$e0970200$4db724ca(a)wise.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi all, > > Any examples of defaced sites??? > > www.scarfies.net :-) > > I still can't get through to www.defacers-challenge.com, which was supposed > to be listing the hacked sites... > > Keith Davidson > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:00:10 +1200 > From: Peter Macaulay <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > Cc: nznog <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <3F08013A.8070405(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Haven't seen any yet and zone-h showed only a slight increase before the > DNOS attack clogged their 100mb totally. The originator runs a > 'brazilian' site based out of the US, and his/her email is from > somewhere in France. The Estonian link is for the time of the challenge > and the time is according to zone-h which is estonian (Tallin) > ;-) Just showing I have done my homework before putting on the makeup > and getting demolished by Hoskin and Hawkesbury. > > Keith Davidson wrote: > > >>Hi all, > >> Any examples of defaced sites??? > >> > >> > > > >www.scarfies.net :-) > > > >I still can't get through to www.defacers-challenge.com, which was supposed > >to be listing the hacked sites... > > > >Keith Davidson > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Nznog mailing list > >Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > > -- > Peter Macaulay > Executive Director > InternetNZ > Direct +64 4 495 2113 > >

1 0

Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time
by Peter Macaulay 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

-- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

5 5

Conference Attendance
by Tony McGregor 05 Jul '03

05 Jul '03

There will be a bunch of people there from the WAND group. The speaker discounts made it possible for us. Can someone confirm that there will be connectivity (inc wireless) at the conference? Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095(w) +64 7 825 5047(h) Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 6

Net4U Thread
by Donald Neal 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

The current (or immediately past?) thread dealing with Net4U contains some postings which are clearly within this list's acceptable use policy, and some which are not. In brief, postings which discuss operational or technical issues - and an ISP using spam to advertise does look to me like one of those - are in. Postings containing "character assassination or lack of respect for other participants" are out. Whether they cause deformation or not. For myself, I'd like to see no further additions to the thread unless they come from people who have something new and relevant to say. - Donald Neal ex cathedra, or something Donald Neal | Doctor: Did you see what I didn't see? Technical Specialist | Romana: No. Operations Engineering| Doctor: Nor did I. Alcatel NZ Ltd | - Douglas Adams, Shada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 1

WTB: APE bandwidth
by Michael Hallager 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Hello all, Could ISP's that have connections to the APE please contact me with their prices for bandwidth to equipment located at APE. Kind regards, Michael Hallager Managing Director Networkstuff Limited http://www.networkstuff.co.nz michael @ networkstuff.co.nz

1 0

Re: [nznog] APE Peering
by - 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Sahil said to me, as well as publically on the site that the "auditor's" report would be made available publically on the website. After a number of months I saw him again, and casually asked, whats up with that auditor's report, and he shrugged it off, as if to say "that was a joke". Secondly Sahil obviously did know about it, so shrugging it off as his staff's fault is amusing in the least

9 11

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Chris O'Donoghue 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Well perhaps you should work on your management a bit more. It took all of about 5 seconds to convince me that this was worthwhile for my sysadmins to attend. But then again maybe I'm biased, cos I went last year. Chris Chris O'Donoghue Technology Manager Online & Digital TVNZ -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Brooking [mailto:jeremy(a)morenet.net.nz] Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 1:01 p.m. To: Simon Lyall Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering Simon Lyall wrote: ><grump> >By which I assume you make less than $20,000 per year and live in central >Auckland. Seriously it's $250 per day, if you go on two days thats $500 >bucks. $20/per weeek if you started saving at the start of the year when >this was first mentioned (and I think I told people to start saving). > >If you present you get that day free. If you talk your work into a 5% >training budget then it'll cover it. > >Exactly what sort of pricing could you afford? I remmeber the little ISP >forum that Internetnz had a couple of years back, that was $50 per day and >nobody much attended. ></grump> > > Perhaps my _insane_ comment was a bit of an overstatement. First post I saw regarding it was 9th of 3rd. So that would make it about $50 a week. And of course, we all have $50 spare a week dont we? _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog ================================================================ CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains information that is intended to be read only by the named recipient(s). It may contain information that is confidential, proprietary or the subject of legal privilege. This information is not to be used by any other person and/or organisation. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise us immediately and delete this e-mail from your system. Do not use any information contained in it. ================================================================ For more information on nzoom.com, visit us online at http://www.nzoom.com ================================================================

1 0

Netforum - I'm in !
by Tim John 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

> On another note, Whos going to Netforum? > A quick survey of Auckland Thursday Night Curry attendees didn't look too > promising.. Chris and I from Domainz are coming up for the Thursday and Friday. We'll be the ones hiding in the shadows :) We're looking forward to Joe's presentation ... and of course the curry on Thursday ! Tim DISCLAIMER: The content of this email is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity named above. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that the use, distribution and publication of the above information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact Domainz by returning the email and destroying the original. Thank you.

2 1

19" Cases.....
by Roger De Salis 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

I have built two self assembly 19" cases, simply designed to be a simple as possible, and extremely low cost. Unit One, 2.5RU (ie the same height as a standard PCI card.) 450mm deep. Accepts standard power supply, any ATX board (full, mini, micro). Combos are Std CDROM + Floppy + 6 drives OR up to 10 disk drives without CDROM/Floppy Assembly. No risers. One case fan (included). Unit Two, Same Height as standard ATX power supply 90mm, 2RU, 275mm deep. Accepts micro ATX board only. Accepts Standard ATX power supply. Accepts laptop 1/3high floppy and CDROM (which I can supply if required) $169 for CD, $79 for floppy. Accepts 1/2 high PCI Cards only. No risers Unit Two currently supports 1 x 3.5" DD and 3 x 2.5"DD. Production version will likely be modded to accept 2 x 3.5"DD and 2 x 2.5" DD ========================================================== Removable 19" Rack wings on both. Mounting combinations are: Flush front, recess 50mm, centre pillar mount, or reverse mount, and 50mm recessed reversed. The intention is to place a full shelf underneath the base unit, then I would not have any qualms about 4-5 racked up on top of each other. There is currently no provision for slides, but if someone was desperate..... Henry Ford Colour scheme. NZ$260+GST complete with PSU, wiring assembly pwr/hdd assy, screws. Netforum Special NZ$230+GST. I'll have three units on show at the Waipuna next week if someone wants to look/dicuss. The second small unit was intended to complement Cisco 2600 in a rack, but also be the right size for home stereo with silent PSU and 2.5"DDs, so if you want to buy your own power supply, knock $35 off the price. Further discounts for quantity (ie 4up.) If you want to buy just the metalwork, and make up your own, happy to oblige... Basically I run them as telephone controllers, log servers etc etc, with a Duron 1300, MSI 6787 board with LAN on-board, single drive and CD for approx $700, rack mounted with a 2 year warranty on everything. About 14 day delivery. I'll include a couple of JPEG's later this morning. Rgds Roger De Salis -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)fx.net.nz </' FX Networks +64 25 481 452 /) Wellington, New Zealand roger(a)desalis.gen.nz (/ ` Bentley win Le Mans! - What next, English win cricket in Aus?

1 0

Net4U's earlier actions
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Hi, Firstly, I'd like to apologise for actions made earlier during the day with respect to a mailout to a certain group of ISP's. I wasnt thinking clearly when I thought to add a few more addresses to the mailout to existing contacts. My bad, wont be repeated. As Richard has suggested, if anyone has any concerns or issues that need addressing, please contact us off-list. Just for those that were concerned, issues with abuse(a)net4u.co.nz have now been resolved. Once again, my apologies for the drama here in NZNOG. Regards, Sahil Gupta Senior Account Manager NET4U LIMITED Phone: 0508-263-848 Fax: 07-8582659 Mobile: 029-366-6375

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

You have some valid points here. The whole thing is quite disappointing, and for many, quite frustrating. This abuse(a)net4u is also becoming a sore point, and clearly there has been an issue with this address. I can only chase up as much as was passed on to me. There are a number of other recommended tasks which were to be carried out but have not :( Please contact me off-list with more details, and I will be happy to deal with things. As I said, I'm sill helping Net4U (Unpaid I might add) here and there when I am not involved with my regular clients. If anyone else is reading this and has ANY issues with Net4U that have been ignored, please feel free to contact me off-list or directly on 021409987, and I will to my best to deal with things. This is not the place for this nonsense, so lets get all this off-list, contact me, and lets get everyone happy. If no one has any other abuse they want to throw this way, perhaps we can move back to other interesting threads such as Multicast which I enjoyed following? How about why ISP's should/shouldn't be able to control assignment of IP addresses on ADSL Starter? Anyone have any views on this? Cheers, Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Howes [mailto:mish(a)doomx.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 6:49 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Each time the topic of Net4u has come up I've resisted posting as previously the entire situation was already at boiling point, but suggesting people are here to play when they're obviously just frustrated by actions that they see as detremental and disrespectful to other New Zealand Network Operators really rubs me the wrong way. Net4u does seem to be operating in a more legal fashion than before but they're still not admin friendly by any stretch of the imagination. I've received spam from net4u customers to domains I previously managed, I contacted Net4u to advise them of this ( abuse(a)net4u.co.nz) but have never received any response. I was also informed of a 'hole' in their security through which anyone can log into the net4u network and gain free ADSL service by use of an 'admin' account, I emailed the administrator of net4u to advise of this but despite sending two emails I never received a response and (I just tested) the hole still seems to be wide open. I'm glad you see the spam from Net4u as a bad thing as even though the operators of Net4u are (reasonably) new to the game, in this 'net enabled' age even the newest player has no excuse for thinking that unsolicited commercial email to a soa address is a good idea, the same goes for their previous dubious actions. You can feel free to view comments like these as 'pettiness' but I for one am glad to be informed of the actions (or inaction) of New Zealand ISPs even if the observations are at times coloured by external factors. -- Regards, Dave Howes.

1 0

LOL - Tis so odd.....
by Michael Hallager 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Richard's entire post looks clearly like a Sahil marketing effort: COPY We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. /COPY YEAH RIGHT. We all have the MP3 of Sahil BOASTING about taking bandwidth. How do you reconcile that with your above claim? I think we would all like the answer. Sahil also ropes his friends into fronting for him, including doing the following actions, both people have admitted that Sahil got them to contact me: 1) Sending me an abusive email 2) Contacting me to rent several thousand dollars worth of equipment that I would never loan to Sahil. COPY > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > justification for this blatant deformation. /COPY Don't like the heat, get out of the fire. You knew full well what you were getting into when you associated yourself with Net4u by doing this contracting job. COPY It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. /COPY OK, whatever. I have a small **** or a demon or whatever (This is starting to sound like whacky religious stuff). How did you KNOW??? Michael Hallager Managing Director Networkstuff / Comsolve

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Thanks Dan. There are one or two ISP's and their administrators out there that have been VERY generous, sympathetic and helpful towards Sahil & Net4U and yet more who have been giving Net4U advise, and telling him off when needed :). As I say, Net4U are "growing up" slowly, but like me, are bound to make mistakes along the way. I enjoy helping others where help is needed, but sometimes this pisses other people off, especially those that don't think that particular person or business deserves to be helped or to get ahead, and I'm not just talking about Net4U. Anyway, rest assured, he has just had a verbal assault from me for yet again, not thinking carefully and using common sense before acting. ie sending Spam etc Thanks for your patience and understanding everyone. He wont be doing that again. :) Cheers, Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Clark [mailto:dan(a)scarfies.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 4:04 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering I have to agree with Richard here, the problem is the young man who set this particular ISP up has historicly been ignorant as to some of the ethical rules and unwritten policy's of the internet community. We all make mistakes and maybe he just needs a little guidance and support from fellow ISP's who, will no doubt have started from penny's in the early days themselves. Regards Dan Clark Network Manager Scarfies.Net Ltd ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard <mailto:Richard(a)sigel.co.nz> Parkinson To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 3:35 PM Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. We no longer oversee the operation of Net4U, but have kept in touch with them, and assist with other matters both business related and technical, and feel Net4U & Sahil are slowly "growing up" so to speak, but I expect mystiques will still be made from time to time. None of us are perfect. I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no justification for this blatant deformation. I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters are. It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. Without naming anyone, I would also like to point out that there are those of you on this list making such accusations who are the last people to do so, or should we raise the matter of a VAST amount of bandwidth stolen from Telecom for a number of months, by a much larger ISP than Net4U, who even taught another ISP's network administrator how to do it only days before Telecom figured it all out... or perhaps I could send the list a copy of some forged court documents? To these few people I say, I suggest you stop stirring the pot and leave the past alone, or you will get more than just a little of it on you. I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Cheers, Richard Parkinson (Director) Sigel Data Systems Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 2:13 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; Steve Phillips Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering If anyone had forgotten, where is the "Report" from Sigel Systems about Net4u's runnings over the last 3 months. I believe the impartial 3rd party was hired as one of net4u's staff a very short while after (so couldn't be impartial) Thanks Craig > >> >[snippage] > > > We can deliver using several methods as I've outlined above and can also > > > take care of transporting your existing I.P. Address ranges supplied to > > > you by your current provider to us. > > That would be a neat trick. Almost worth taking him up on that just to > watch him fail dismally. _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _____ _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

2 1

APE Peering
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Hi, This announcement is more centered towards Network Administrators at ISP's that are connected to the APE. Net4U (www.net4u.co.nz) connected to the APE since May 2003 and since then have been peering with a number of ISP's around the country. We are currently looking for more ISP's to peer with and so if you feel that we could have a domestic peering arrangement between your ISP and Net4U, please get back to me off-list as we would be more than happy to do so. Regards, Sahil Gupta Senior Account Manager NET4U LIMITED Phone: 0508-263-848 Fax: 07-8582659 Mobile: 029-366-6375

7 6

APE Peering
by Richard Patterson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. We no longer oversee the operation of Net4U, but have kept in touch with them, and assist with other matters both business related and technical, and feel Net4U & Sahil are slowly "growing up" so to speak, but I expect mystiques will still be made from time to time. None of us are perfect. I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no justification for this blatant deformation. I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters are. It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. Without naming anyone, I would also like to point out that there are those of you on this list making such accusations who are the last people to do so, or should we raise the matter of a VAST amount of bandwidth stolen from Telecom for a number of months, by a much larger ISP than Net4U, who even taught another ISP's network administrator how to do it only days before Telecom figured it all out... or perhaps I could send the list a copy of some forged court documents? To these few people I say, I suggest you stop stirring the pot and leave the past alone, or you will get more than just a little of it on you. I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Cheers, Richard Parkinson (Director) Sigel Data Systems Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 2:13 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; Steve Phillips Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering If anyone had forgotten, where is the "Report" from Sigel Systems about Net4u's runnings over the last 3 months. I believe the impartial 3rd party was hired as one of net4u's staff a very short while after (so couldn't be impartial) Thanks Craig > >> >[snippage] > > > We can deliver using several methods as I've outlined above and can also > > > take care of transporting your existing I.P. Address ranges supplied to > > > you by your current provider to us. > > That would be a neat trick. Almost worth taking him up on that just to > watch him fail dismally. _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

6 5

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Simon Byrnand 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

At 15:35 3/07/03 +1200, Richard Parkinson wrote: >I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had >I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, >I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business >and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about >increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" >which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters >are. > Sorry, but that doesn't wash with me, or I suspect most members of the list. Spam is Spam whether its trying to sell me Viagra or Bandwidth. Anybody that received that mailout (fortunately I didn't) who had no previous business dealings with Net4U could be legitimately annoyed by it. The sample "message" appeared to be addressed to soa@ which suggests it might have been taken from domain or APNIC contact details. >It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an >issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject >at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological >disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from >school, dishing out what you received. > Pot, Kettle, Black ? Regards, Simon

2 1

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

I did say disagree with the "spam" method used. I agree this thread is a waste of time and should die. -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gordon(a)morenet.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:47 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering Richard, Was there any point to that message at all? Firstly, spam is spam, not "distributed" email. It is unsolicited commercial email, which this was. Secondly, I think you'll find that ANY provider that has previously behaved as poorly would attract a similar response. I really don't care if they are mystical or deformed, this is a breach of what is generally accepted as "acceptable conduct". Perhaps this thread should die - it has very little to do with network operations. Gordon Smith CCNA Network Operations Manager MoreNet Ltd PGP Fingerprint: 4B12 FBE4 784A 3294 6637 4587 AB6F C893 AB2C 952C

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

And I knew this as soon as I saw it hit the list. Cheers -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Poole [mailto:lists(a)p00le.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:45 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson Cc: NZNOG Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering Getting very OT here, but that word is EXCEPT! On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > Accept for a spelling error or two. :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Juha Saarinen [ mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] > Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:44 p.m. > Cc: NZNOG > Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering > > > > On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > > > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > > justification for this blatant deformation. > > Priceless. > > > -- > Juha Saarinen > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > >

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Accept for a spelling error or two. :) -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:44 p.m. Cc: NZNOG Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > justification for this blatant deformation. Priceless. -- Juha Saarinen _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

2 1

dnis prefix stripping
by Mark Frater 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Anyone know how to strip DNIS prefixes on a Lucent TNT? Mark

1 0

More Sahil spam
by Michael Hallager 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

This was contained in a spam/UCE email received from Sahil last week. Why I am on his mailing list, I don't know. I don't deal with him. He has not responded to my email questioing the hypocrisy. Uncharged Users: ---------------- It has come to our attention that there may be a very small number of users who have slipped through the cracks so to speak, either by devious and deliberate means, or otherwise, and are not paying for the service they have been using. This is known as Fraud! If you are one of those users who have not been paying for the service that you have been using, this is your chance to come forward before we take action. There will be an amnesty period of 7 days (until the 1st of July) for such users to come forward and pay last months, and next months usage, and join the ranks of our regular customers. Failure to do so by the 1st of July will result in fraud charges laid against the Telecom account holders responsible for the unlawful Jetstream connection to Net4U. We will also back date all charges associated to the unlawful use of our services, and pursue these in court if necessary. Sorry for the harsh news everyone. Lets move onto some better news.....

2 1

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Steve Phillips 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

At 13:59 3/07/2003, Seeby Woodhouse wrote: >I guess that Sahil finally decided that the dust had settled enough that >he could start selling off some of his stolen bandwidth I noticed the costs were rather below the market rates from a number of players in the market that _do_ actually sell bandwidth internationally.. Maybe he's found another way around paying the carriers for their services.. ? one wonders if it all hinges upon him getting peering partners at APE and WIX.. does anyone actually trust net4u enough to peer with them.. ? -- Steve.

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Seeby Woodhouse 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

I guess that Sahil finally decided that the dust had settled enough that he could start selling off some of his stolen bandwidth - perhaps he's been hoarding up all the ill-gotten bits and bytes in a big cache, and now he wants to release it to the world at a fantastically discounted rate! :-) In case you missed the original Net4u story about this, here are some links. http://www.reseller.co.nz/Reseller/Reseller.nsf/0/86256ABD006E93FCCC256C F4001F2C03?OpenDocument http://www.computerworld.co.nz/webhome.nsf/0/9624CB39A4EE23A0CC256CF5001 1DB4F?opendocument http://www.aardvark.co.nz/daily/2003/0327.shtml Cheers Seeby Woodhouse Managing Director Orcon Internet Limited - www.orcon.net.nz ____________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED" <sgupta(a)net4u.co.nz> To: <soa(a)wise.net.nz> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: ATTN: Systems Administrator / Management > Hello there, > I would like to introduce Net4U Limited to you as an alternative bandwidth > wholesaler. > > We currently have a large network around New Zealand. We currently supply > 5 other ISP's in New Zealand with Bandwidth and supply our own customer > base with bandwidth for Dialup, ADSL, Wireless, Frame-Relay, ATM, Fiber, > Ethernet. > > We connect to many providers around New Zealand and are also a peer on the > Auckland Peering Exchange (www.ape.net.nz) > > Currently I can offer you these prices for International Bandwidth: > 64k - 2048k = $2000+GST (per megabit) > 2048k - 4096k = $1800+GST (per megabit) > 4096k - 10240k = $1600+GST (per megabit) > 10240k = POA. > > We can deliver using several methods as I've outlined above and can also > take care of transporting your existing I.P. Address ranges supplied to > you by your current provider to us. > > Above all, we can also deliver Domestic / International Traffic via a BGP > Feed on 2 Different PVC's. > > Please let me know what you think of our offer. > > Regards, > > Sahil Gupta > Senior Account Manager > NET4U LIMITED > > Phone: 0508-263-848 > Fax: 07-8582659 > Mobile: 029-366-6375

1 0

Anyone want 2U cases (again) ?
by Mark Frater 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Hi List, I'm ordering some more 2U cases from Taiwan and wondered if others were interested in buying some aswell to reduce the shipping cost per unit. ( If I just order a couple, the airfreight cost is as much as the cases!) The cases are 2U 19" wide by (only) 19" deep cases from Taiwan direct from manufacturer. These shallow cases are ideal for 600mm deep cabinets. They cases take standard ATX mobo. We have deployed both P4 and Athlon boards in these cases already and they have been fine. They will take up to 4 internal disks, floppy and CDRom. Here is a PDF cad drawing. http://www.quicksilver.net.nz/272-dia.pdf. Made by Comix International. $US200 for case, 400W PSU and 3xPCI Riser card. PLUS freight, gst and handling. Spare PSUs and mounting rails are also available. 2. 400W ATX Slim type power supply US$70.00 3. 22" Sliding rails US$25.00 4. 20" Sliding rails US$22.00 Total cost worked out at under NZ$550/case last time after shipping, customs charges and GST were added. Realistically, about 4-5 weeks delivery ( ie 1 week to get deposits, 1-2 week for Comix to make order, 1 week for airfreight, 1 week for NZcustoms clearance. Pickup from Quicksilver Internet, Textile Centre, Kenwyn St, Parnell, or for a small fee we could arrange for a courier from here. I'd like to get a deposit of (say) NZ$400 per case off people before placing the order. Make out cheques to Mercury Telecommunications Ltd and send to: Attn: Mark Frater, Mercury Telecommunications Ltd P.O.Box 99856 New Market Contact me off list if you are interested. Mark Frater Quicksilver Internet ph 9160300

1 0

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 01 Jul '03

01 Jul '03

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. NZNOG held a face to face gathering as part of the UniForum NZ conference in 2002, and is to do the same again from 10-12 July this year. That's next week. See http://www.uniforum.org.nz/conference_2003/conference.html for details. If you're going - and you are, aren't you? - you need to register NOW. NZNOG doesn't hold other national face to face meetings, but see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Auckland Peering Exchange See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. About This Mailing List This list has around 480 addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Alcatel NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 1

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Frank March 30 Jun '03

30 Jun '03

Electric fences are a problem with POTS when they are poorly designed and maintained. The major problem with ADSL in rural areas is the distance from the nearest enabled exchange - only a relatively small number of rural people are within the 5-7 km distance that ADSL will reach. It is likely that wireless technologies will be necessary to reach anyone more than this distance for an exchange and for some satellite will be the only practical solution. According to Fonterra, there could be as many as 5,000 farms (probably not dairy farms) in this category. --- Frank March Senior Specialist Adviser, IT Policy Group (and member of the PROBE project team) Ministry of Economic Development, PO Box 1473, Wellington, New Zealand Phone (+64 4) 474 2908; Fax (+64 4) 474 2659; Mobile (+64) 21 042 9205 -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kerr [mailto:cameron.kerr(a)paradise.net.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2003 00:35 To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 11:20:32PM +1200, Lin Nah wrote: > Some of the target audience in the groups above tend to live in > rural areas and it is a challenge for them to get a 56k dialup > connection going (without worrying about line quality, electric > fences etc) let alone worry about high speed internet. Hence the > need for Project Probe. That raises an interesting question. If a primary problem with POTS is with electric fences creating a large amount of interference, how on earth is ADSL going to fare??? Surely its higher frequencies would be even more messed up. Or would they use wireless for people in that position? _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog http://www.govt.nz - connecting you to New Zealand central & local government services Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer.

1 0

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Michael Sutton 29 Jun '03

29 Jun '03

Over 500 clients of Xtra voluntarily registered and received Radio New Zealand and BBC World Live as Multicast on Telecoms dial up service for 3 years from 1998. I attended and observed when Telecom engineers enabled the same service via adsl in Wellington as multicast sourced from my servers in Akl in 2000. If i was in the Ministry of Health and needed to distribute 3,000 * 10m bytes PDF document from my source server to all distribution points within 60 minutes (3GigaBytes) no New Zealand network can do it. The distribution server and network would fail. If I used multicast and have a 256kbit multicast injection source the upload to all 3000 GPs will be complete in less than 10 minutes. The clients will still be billed for 3 gigabytes if they were being changed for local traffic and the rest of the national network would remain stable, especially for servers colocated with the originating server. If future spam blocking uses a signature system, multicast would enable this information to be distributed to all enterprise mail servers instantly and efficiently using multicast distribution... If I was implementing Maori Television and Youth Radio I would use multicast for distribution of the network transmission to reach 150 National distribution points where I would convert the multicast program for terrestrial transmission and in one step have positively changed the operational budget as well as reduced complexity of distribution. Yes I would still have to pay for each clients data charges... If I ran Correspondence School I would use multicast... If I was the TAB I would use it... I could give you 20 project scenarios that unicast can not implement in the real world. All unicast can do in every application is show the prototype concept - scale-up can not occur without multicast... This is really an Interconnect issue: customers should have network access to inject on a case by case situation... It is not up to the networks to be arbitrarily prohibiting this protocol... Please name another network protocol that could make such a difference and which is disabled ... Its like saying that the protocol extensions enabling mobile TXT messaging should have been blocked until each application was identified. I thought that Telecom, Telstra etc stopped "telling" customers what are permissible applications... Telecom and Telstra etc are supposed to implement enabling technologies which can be used by its customers who know there own current and future applications... In my professional opinion if the Boards of both these organisations understood the damage that this decision does to their clients network application capabilities, all of those executives involved would be gone. New Zealand has never had a real Internet as far as I am concerned due to this network management decision. Multicast is a broadcast service and without it the network remains unicast spaghetti, like pieces of string with empty cans of W* Baked Beans on each end... If Probe does not require multicast as a mandatory network service then the future of that service will be DOA... Due to public obfuscation of the process I don't know what they thought they required anyway. My final view on this is; turn it on and make the interconnect arrangements necessary for peering at wix and ape before one or more customers takes this to the Commissioner as an interconnect issue. Michael Sutton +64 4 4759235 www.awacs.co.nz -----Original Message----- From: Donald Neal [mailto:Donald.Neal(a)telecom.co.nz] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 12:41 To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand My own opinion - and I must stress that it is just my opinion - is that this will be exactly Telecom's attitude. To change the answer you'd need to change the question. If you say "Look, to provide new service X which your customers will want, you need to enable IP multicasting", that's a different issue. But that would require the identification of service X. - Donald Neal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

4 3

Test the Nation, Request (REPOST)
by Chris O'Donoghue 29 Jun '03

29 Jun '03

Sorry had to repost from home email Hi all, We (TVNZ) are running a programme tonight that _may_ attract considerable audience online. To try and make things run smoothly and lower calls to our and your call centres, can those of you that aggressively cache make sure you don't cache the following URL http://ttndata.nzoom.com/batches/data.xml This is the XML data that defines the current batch of questions. It will change in content frequently between 19:30 and midnight Ta Chris Chris ODonoghue Technology Manager Online & Digital TVNZ codonoghue(a)tvnz.co.nz

1 0

Test the Nation, request
by Chris O'Donoghue 29 Jun '03

29 Jun '03

Hi all, We (TVNZ) are running a programme tonight that _may_ attract considerable audience online. To try and make things run smoothly and lower calls to our and your call centres, can those of you that aggressively cache make sure you don't cache the following URL http://ttndata.nzoom.com/batches/data.xml This is the XML data that defines the current batch of questions. It will change in content frequently between 19:30 and midnight Ta Chris Chris O'Donoghue Technology Manager Online & Digital TVNZ ================================================================ CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains information that is intended to be read only by the named recipient(s). It may contain information that is confidential, proprietary or the subject of legal privilege. This information is not to be used by any other person and/or organisation. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise us immediately and delete this e-mail from your system. Do not use any information contained in it. ================================================================ For more information on nzoom.com, visit us online at http://www.nzoom.com ================================================================

1 0

Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Ewen McNeill 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

In message <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141054.038683c0(a)pele.citylink.co.nz>, Richard Naylor writes: >>[Multicast] >Well the biggest part of the business is video on demand and that can >really only be unicast as getting viewers to agree on what they watch is >like agreeing on a TV Channel in a huge flat - hopeless. Even aside from the live situation you mention (eg, LOTR last year), general overseas experience with video-on-demand has shown that people really only want (to pay for) video-soon-after-demanded. Eg, for a 1-2 hour thing, having to wait, say, 2-5 minutes for it to start isn't a big deal. Even waiting 1 minute for a 10 minute thing isn't _that big a deal. Which means that for popular stuff that is "on demand" it might not be enough to have one channel with it, where the wait time is, say, 15 minutes for it to cycle around -- but it might be fine to have 10-20 channels, suitably staggered, where the wait time was 1-2 minutes. (Add channels to reduce the wait time.) Especially if there was some nice front end whereby people could find out which channel would be showing their thing starting next, and tune into that one. And it's much easier to scale channels-starting-every-minute (say) than it is to scale each-stream-is-unicast-with-its-own-start-point. (Particularly if you don't both starting/continuing the channels if there's nobody receiving it after a few minutes -- that requires some feedback outside multicast, but wouldn't be hard to do with a suitable client application and, say, UDP upstream responses every minute or so.) >back to streaming live and did the LOTR premiere last year with 10,000 >clients. Its a lot of fun and didn't really stress much other than a few ISPs. At least once some traction was made on the urgent call for more peering from the source point to the main sink points. But multicast fully deployed would definitely have helped a lot there. Ewen

3 2

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Donald Neal 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

> From: Simon Lyall [mailto:simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 26 June 2003 17:46 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand > > > On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Craig Whitmore wrote: > > But wihtout having a killer ap or connections which can use > > them (like Telecom looking into enabling then DialIP/IPNET/Jetstream > > Network) 99% of the peopel conencted on these mediums won't > see anything) > > I'm sure there would be a few people that would jump through > the hoops to > get a non-commercial broadcast arrangement with APRA ( I > think one person > on this list has something along these lines) if they could multicast > their musical tastes to DSL people. Is anyone able to point me at some such people? - Donald Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 1

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Donald Neal 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

> From: Michael Sutton [mailto:michael.sutton(a)awacs.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, 27 June 2003 14:55 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Cc: Donald Neal > Subject: RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand > > > Over 500 clients of Xtra voluntarily registered and received > Radio New Zealand and BBC World Live as Multicast on Telecoms > dial up service for 3 years from 1998. > > I attended and observed when Telecom engineers enabled the > same service via adsl in Wellington as multicast sourced from > my servers in Akl in 2000. > > If [...] What I'm looking for is someone who has _today_ content which they want to distribute where a) the availability of IP multicasting could reasonably be expected to make some difference to customer experience/network load, and b) the level of demand for this content can reasonably be expected to be such that either extra revenue for someone would come from making that content available OR its availability can reasonably be expected to increase the uptake of broadband service. The first of these is actually a harder test than it looks, given that there are other ways of doing point to multipoint comunication than unvarnished IP unicast or multicast. (The classic way to allow download of big documents many times is with proxy caching, to take just one example.) - Donald Neal All opinions my own. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand <<< CORRECTION >>>
by Michael Sutton 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

Correction to my earlier post: Para 3 Please read 30 gigabytes in 60 minutes. I wrote 3 gigabytes... M -----Original Message----- From: Michael Sutton [mailto:michael.sutton(a)awacs.co.nz] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 02:55 To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand <snip> If i was in the Ministry of Health and needed to distribute 3,000 * 10m bytes PDF document from my source server to all distribution points within 60 minutes (30 GigaBytes) no New Zealand network can do it. The distribution server and network would fail. If I used multicast and have a 256kbit multicast injection source the upload to all 3000 GPs will be complete in less than 10 minutes. The clients will still be billed for 30 gigabytes if they were being changed for local traffic and the rest of the national network would remain stable, especially for servers colocated with the originating server. <snip>

1 0

Sobig.MM infected users?
by Neil Gardner 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

Hi guys, (specifially those at IHUG) any chance someone can do something about this user on IHUGs ADSL system? - (203-118-165-45.adsl.ihug.co.nz) This post is in desperation after the correct procedure for reporting this was followed twice with IHUG and no-one did anything about it except send a request for the full email which was given, and then sent me back a totally blank reply. IHUGs Helpdesk were apologetic, but said that no-one could do anything about it except between the hours of midnight and 8am (!!!!) Anyway, it wouldn't normally be an urgent issue, but the poor sucker that's infected has just subscribed to about 5 more lists that I'm on, as well as a lot of not so IT literate users, so he's going to catch a few of them... As an aside, what do most ISPs do if they find someone is infected and is sending out stuff lke this? (Yes, those dates in the email below are old - that's from the first bunch of emails he sent out when I first complained - and yes, I have checked the IP is still the same as of about 20 minutes ago) Cheers - Neil G > Return-Path: <big(a)boss.com> > Delivered-To: moderator for ultimate(a)nzfda.org.nz > Received: (qmail 32200 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 19:47:03 > -0000 > Received: from 203-118-165-45.adsl.ihug.co.nz (HELO MCNEILLJ-JLG772) > (203.118.165.45) > by 202-0-37-249.cable.paradise.net.nz with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 19:47:03 > -0000 > From: <big(a)boss.com> > To: <ultimate(a)nzfda.org.nz> > Subject: Re: Movies > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 7:47:09 +1200 > Importance: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_0001EFBA"

2 1

Sobig.MM infected users?
by nznog＠neilnz.com 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

Hi guys, (specifially those at IHUG) any chance someone can do something about this user on IHUGs ADSL system? - (203-118-165-45.adsl.ihug.co.nz) This post is in desperation after the correct procedure for reporting this was followed twice with IHUG and no-one did anything about it except send a request for the full email which was given, and then sent me back a totally blank reply. IHUGs Helpdesk were apologetic, but said that no-one could do anything about it except between the hours of midnight and 8am (!!!!) Anyway, it wouldn't normally be an urgent issue, but the poor sucker that's infected has just subscribed to about 5 more lists that I'm on, as well as a lot of not so IT literate users, so he's going to catch a few of them... As an aside, what do most ISPs do if they find someone is infected and is sending out stuff lke this? (Yes, those dates in the email below are old - that's from the first bunch of emails he sent out when I first complained - and yes, I have checked the IP is still the same as of about 20 minutes ago) Cheers - Neil G > Return-Path: <big(a)boss.com> > Delivered-To: moderator for ultimate(a)nzfda.org.nz > Received: (qmail 32200 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2003 19:47:03 > -0000 > Received: from 203-118-165-45.adsl.ihug.co.nz (HELO MCNEILLJ-JLG772) > (203.118.165.45) > by 202-0-37-249.cable.paradise.net.nz with SMTP; 18 Jun 2003 19:47:03 > -0000 > From: <big(a)boss.com> > To: <ultimate(a)nzfda.org.nz> > Subject: Re: Movies > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 7:47:09 +1200 > Importance: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_0001EFBA"

1 0

Multicast status in New Zealand
by Cameron Kerr 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

Hello, I work as a teaching fellow in Telecommunications, teaching small-time network management and network programming. I am currently trying to learn more about multicast (IPv4 now, v6 later), in preparation for teaching multicast programming half way through the second semester. However, in the course we won't be connected to the internet, so I'm using my own home network to advance my understanding. I have a few questions about the current state of affairs wrt ISPs and content in New Zealand. 1) What broadband (and dial-up, for completeness) ISPs are multicast capable/friendly? Particularly Orcon, since our flat has just moved there. 2) What is needed to activate it at the users end (anything they need to do with mbone etc), or does the ISP deal with that? 3) Is there much in the way of content available? 4) Are there issues with NAT??? (I have a Nokia M1122 doing NAT, with Linux router/firewall behind it) Or alternatively, is there any documentation that answers these questions in the New Zealand environment. (If not, I'd be willing to help write/test.) Thank you all. -- Cameron Kerr cameron.kerr(a)paradise.net.nz : http://nzgeeks.org/cameron/ Empowered by Perl!

8 16

Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Richard Naylor 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

At 01:48 p.m. 27/06/2003 +1200, David Robb wrote: <snip> >Overseas content proved to be largely boring, lossy, and not worth getting >back when I played with it at ihug. Now this might have changed since >then, but I suspect that locally generated content is still the way to go. I used to be able to get a copyright clearance out of TVNZ for streaming provided I had a minder present. That stopped some years ago. So now I create my own content. Its still boring, but thats the subject matter. I get round the lossy issues with bandwidth and better codecs. Its a very niche business but I make money. More in the talk at Uniforum. > > Then you have to get it to the users,(The hard part). Customers would have > > to run Tunnels to the ISP (as Telecom Jetstream/Jetstart/Dialup) network > >Running many tunnels defeats some of the purpose of multicast, since >you're then back to multiple streams through the core of your network. >Unless of course you can distribute the tunnel endpoints out to close to >your customers, but then you may as well just use unicast and relay it. Well the biggest part of the business is video on demand and that can really only be unicast as getting viewers to agree on what they watch is like agreeing on a TV Channel in a huge flat - hopeless. But I have gone back to streaming live and did the LOTR premiere last year with 10,000 clients. Its a lot of fun and didn't really stress much other than a few ISPs. The streaming business generally just uses unicast as getting network wide multicast is impossible. HOWEVER, Access Grids require multicast and will be running shortly (Cpus arrive monday). But I will tunnel the multicast to try and have a quiet life. Tunnels are the easy way out. The Mbone tools haven't kept up with codec development and aren't great quality. On the other hand divx/mp4 gives dvd quality at 800kbps which isn't hard to deliver. I've even got 300kbyte files going onto cell phones with very good feedback. Codecs certainly have got better. So my input is that the market (ie the viewers) want VOD and that doesn't need multicast. rich

1 0

Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Nathan Ward 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

> This the thing that I find hard to understand. Multicast to me seems like > a cost reduction strategy rather than a revenue improvement one.....Does > no one want to reduce costs? Or is the easier path to profit through > increased revenue.... Sure, it reduces costs, but, who pays to get the content in? The ISP. How do they pass that cost on to thier customers fairly? IMO the only way to fairly do it is to watch your IGMP and see who is listening to what, and devide the costs up nicely. However, the cost per customer will differ per stream and also per minute. Did I mention the fact that you now have to account per multicast group and keep track of IGMP on all your routers... And what about in NZ where we have one or 2 main ISPs, and many smaller ISPs hanging off them. The cost that the smaller ISP gets charged by the larger ISP changes all the time now too... as a smaller ISP, try factor that into your billing system. Nathan Ward

1 0

Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Jamie Baddeley 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

"..I remember at uniforum it was mentioned that the hold up on multicast in NZ (read: Telecom ADSL and the like), was that it was hard to charge for.." This the thing that I find hard to understand. Multicast to me seems like a cost reduction strategy rather than a revenue improvement one.....Does no one want to reduce costs? Or is the easier path to profit through increased revenue.... sigh. jamie >>> Nathan Ward <nward(a)esphion.com> 06/27 12:45 PM >>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:22:49 +1200, Cameron Kerr <cameron.kerr(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > Judging by the responses I recieved, I'm led to believe that no ISPs > currently support multicast. > > I'm forced then to consider the MBone. However there is very little in > the way of instructions for connecting to the mbone (all the > instructions say is to start mrouted). However, where does the other > endpoint for the tunnel go? Is anyone here attached to the MBone? Are > there any places you can connect to (preferably in NZ) for free? > > I'm starting to think that IPv4 multicast will never come, instead, the > first public offering of multicast capabilities to the general public > will come with IPv6. Afterall, the corporate attitude is the same > towards the two technologies is the same (No-one uses it, so we won't > provide it). Is this a reasonable conclusion do you think? > > Thanks for your answers. DISCLAIMER: This email is what I recall, it may be completely incorrect "The mbone is dead" - Greg Shepherd, Uniforum 2002. The mbone was a test network. What is left of it now is more of an informal thing. Lots of people use multicast internally. I remember at uniforum it was mentioned that the hold up on multicast in NZ (read: Telecom ADSL and the like), was that it was hard to charge for. -- Nathan Ward Esphion Ltd. _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

1 0

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Donald Neal 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

> From: Cameron Kerr [mailto:cameron.kerr(a)paradise.net.nz] > Sent: Friday, 27 June 2003 12:23 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand [...] > I'm starting to think that IPv4 multicast will never come, > instead, the > first public offering of multicast capabilities to the general public > will come with IPv6. Afterall, the corporate attitude is the same > towards the two technologies is the same (No-one uses it, so we won't > provide it). Is this a reasonable conclusion do you think? My own opinion - and I must stress that it is just my opinion - is that this will be exactly Telecom's attitude. To change the answer you'd need to change the question. If you say "Look, to provide new service X which your customers will want, you need to enable IP multicasting", that's a different issue. But that would require the identification of service X. - Donald Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Orcon Internet Prefix List Update (2003-6-26)
by Craig Whitmore 26 Jun '03

26 Jun '03

For all those peering with Orcon Internet (AS17746) please update your Prefix Lists/BGP to allow the Following Network(s) ip prefix-list orcon-national permit 202.36.16.0/21 le 24 ip prefix-list orcon-national permit 202.36.24.0/22 le 24 These will be coming from AS23838 behind AS17746 if you do any AS filtering as well. Thanks Craig Whitmore Systems Administrator Orcon Internet http://www.orcon.net.nz

1 0

Server Co-location
by Aaron Martin 25 Jun '03

25 Jun '03

Anyone in Hawkes Bay want to house a server for one of my clients, in return for my client hosting one of your servers? Server is just for MX / DNS backup.

1 0

Re: [nznog] co-location query
by Colin Templeman 25 Jun '03

25 Jun '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I do know that Synergy (Queens Wharf) have plenty of space available in their custom server room. Probably worth an enquiry. <SNIP> | HI there, | | Does anyone know of companies in Wellington with spare machine room that they rent | out? I'm looking for somewhere to set up a few machines without incurring the cost of | building a whole machine room. | | Thanks in advance, | -Rebecca Piatek | | ------------------------------ - -- Regards, Colin Templeman At home, Wellington, New Zealand. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE++kpq1TWUpqMFtqoRAnoRAJsFSik2BK9p8FMmrZyUuK/L1uxq/wCeJqWN S1bce8RzkRik8QSylYqJO9Q= =E+Ox -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

co-location query
by rebecca.piatek＠paradise.net.nz 24 Jun '03

24 Jun '03

HI there, Does anyone know of companies in Wellington with spare machine room that they rent out? I'm looking for somewhere to set up a few machines without incurring the cost of building a whole machine room. Thanks in advance, -Rebecca Piatek

1 0

Spam spam spam spam ...
by David Farrar 14 Jun '03

14 Jun '03

I'm facilitating a session on spam at the InternetNZ Summit on Thursday, and am going to do a quick backgrounder on how big the problem is both overseas and in NZ, plus look at some potential solutions. I've got lots of overseas stats but would love to be able to include some more local stuff. If anyone on the list can easily find out and send to me and stats they have on spam and their ISP, it would be most welcome. The sort of stuff I'm after is: - No of spams received pre day/week/year - % of spam is of overall e-mail, by number and GB - Any cost estimates for your ISP either in direct costs such as bandwidth or indirect costs like % of helpdesk time - What spam filtering, if any, you offer. - Any significant problems with false positives using blacklists etc - what calibre bullets should be used to eliminate spammers :-) Ta DPF

1 0

ihug Updated Prefix list.
by Simon Lyall 11 Jun '03

11 Jun '03

If you are peering with ihug (AS7657) can you please update you filters to accept our advertisements for the following network: ip prefix-list ihug-networks permit 202.46.160.0/24 Our current Prefix list can be obtained from: http://www.ihug.net/ihug-prefix-list -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz Ihug Ltd, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz

1 0

"Borrowed" /16 bought for $500
by Juha Saarinen 11 Jun '03

11 Jun '03

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/5654 -- Juha Saarinen

1 0

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 09 Jun '03

09 Jun '03

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. NZNOG held a face to face gathering as part of the UniForum NZ conference in 2002, and is to do the same again from 10-12 July this year. See http://www.uniforum.org.nz/conference 2003/conference.html for details. If you're going - and you are, aren't you? - it's time to get on with registering. NZNOG doesn't hold other national face to face meetings, but see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Auckland Peering Exchange See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. About This Mailing List This list has around 480 addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Orcon Internet Prefix List Update (2003-6-7)
by Craig Whitmore 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

For all those peering with Orcon Internet (AS17746) please update your Prefix Lists/BGP to allow the Following Network(s) ip prefix-list orcon-national permit 203.99.0.0/19 le 24 Thanks Craig Whitmore Systems Administrator Orcon Internet http://www.orcon.net.nz

1 0

SRS
by Nick Griffin 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

SRS and the whois was unavailable this morning as a result of a Citylink outage. SRS came back onstream at around 10:10am. cheers Nick -- Nick Griffin Registry Manager .nz Registry Services PO Box 24361 Wellington New Zealand e nick.griffin(a)nzrs.net.nz p + 64 4 931 6977 m + 64 21 505 229 f + 64 4 931 6979 w www.nzrs.net.nz

1 0

SRS
by Tim John 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

Anyone having difficulty connecting to the SRS this morning. I'm not getting there with on 'whois.srs.net.nz' Tim DISCLAIMER: The content of this email is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity named above. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that the use, distribution and publication of the above information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact Domainz by returning the email and destroying the original. Thank you.

2 1

Re: [nznog] W32/Bugbear-B
by Matthew Poole 05 Jun '03

05 Jun '03

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:49:37 +1200, Ewen McNeill <ewen(a)naos.co.nz> wrote : > In message <003d01c32bba$88f42940$fd00a8c0(a)morpheus>, "Matthew G Brown" writes: *SNIP* > list at the nai.com URL that Dan Clark gave). Curiously anz.com.au is > there, but anz.co.nz is not, and westpac.com.au is there but > westpac.co.nz is not. > Not particularly curious when you consider the heavy consolidation that both ANZ and Westpac have recently done to move their operations across the Tasman. From experience I know that ANZ's 'net banking site is based in Aus (https://www.anz.com) and would imagine that WPT have probably done the same thing. If there's no secure traffic from the .co.nz domains, will BugBear even pay attention to them? > Obviously it's trying to pretend to be "The Bank" (almost all the > domains in its internal list seem banking related) despite the fact that > almost all banks have "webmail" systems rather than sending actual > email. > I used to hate ANZ's webmail system, until I reflected on the fact that their servers are considerably more secure than my home network - And they've definitely got a better chance of picking up an intrusion and doing something to the instigator. -- Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand

1 0

Re: [nznog] W32/Bugbear-B
by Ewen McNeill 05 Jun '03

05 Jun '03

In message <003d01c32bba$88f42940$fd00a8c0(a)morpheus>, "Matthew G Brown" writes: >Dan Clark wrote: >>http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_100358.htm > >Interesting, It has the domains asbbank.co.nz bankdirect.co.nz bnz.co.nz >and trustbank.co.nz as its sending domains. Ive had several people open >this already with the bankdirect.co.nz domain suffix. The "nz" bank domains appear to be: asbbank.co.nz bankdirect.co.nz bnz.co.nz nationalbank.co.nz trustbank.co.nz (obtained by grepping for "nz$" in a suitable transformed copy of the list at the nai.com URL that Dan Clark gave). Curiously anz.com.au is there, but anz.co.nz is not, and westpac.com.au is there but westpac.co.nz is not. Obviously it's trying to pretend to be "The Bank" (almost all the domains in its internal list seem banking related) despite the fact that almost all banks have "webmail" systems rather than sending actual email. Ewen

1 0

RE: [nznog] The End Is Nigh... Asia's running out of IP addresses
by Matthew Lamb 05 Jun '03

05 Jun '03

I wont be greedy, ill just take 10 or so, if you can spare them :-) Matt On Thu, 29 May 2003 11:39:11 +1200, "Brett Healy" <fork(a)btw.co.nz> wrote : > ill have it.. ill give it a good home. promise :D > > > Regards, > Brett Healy, > BTW Navigation Systems Ltd > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kerry Thompson [mailto:kez-nznog(a)crypt.gen.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2003 11:18 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] The End Is Nigh... Asia's running out of IP > addresses > > > David Robb said: > > > > And just how much of that space is actually in use? > > > > And sometimes I wonder how much of the APNIC/NZ space is actually used as > well. > Years ago I registered a /22 off Netgate for a company, who never used it > and it stayed registered to my APNIC handle. I'm still wondering what to > do with it. And there's plenty of other such blocks out there that are > forgotten and unused. > > Kerry > > > -- > Kerry Thompson, CCNA CISSP > Information Systems Security Consultant > http://www.crypt.gen.nz > > > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > >

2 1

W32/Bugbear-B
by Pipes Cuchifrito 05 Jun '03

05 Jun '03

Good Morning, Does anyone have any initial information on this virus? Are we looking downt he barrel of another network slow down? (another sleepless weekend?) Cheers, Pipes Rapturesecurity.com

3 3

Xtra Abuse
by Philip D'Ath 05 Jun '03

05 Jun '03

Isn't this typical. I try to report SPAM to Xtra's abuse account, and get an error message back saying that they have exceeded their own quota limit! --- This is a system generated message. Please DO NOT REPLY. Your message was not delivered for the following reason: The user(s) account is temporarily over quota. <responses(a)xtra.co.nz> For more information on why this message wasn't delivered, and an explanation of other common mail delivery errors, visit our Web site at: http://xtra.co.nz/maildelivery Kind regards. The Xtra Messaging Team

2 1

Could a mail admin from Xtra please contact me?
by Juha Saarinen 04 Jun '03

04 Jun '03

Apologies for this message, but I don't have a contact address for anyone there. -- Juha Saarinen

1 0

geek.nz approved in interim decision
by DPF 30 May '03

30 May '03

Many here will be pleased/interested to hear that in a unanimous 14-0 vote the InternetNZ Council voted in favour of creating geek.nz as the 12th 2LD for .nz. The interim decision is subject to further submissions, along with discussion of implementation details. A final decision will be taken at the next Council meeting in early July. DPF -- E-mail: david(a)farrar.com ICQ: 29964527 MSN: dpf666(a)hotmail.com

1 0

Update to the bogon route-server project
by Rob Thomas 29 May '03

29 May '03

Hi, NZNOG folk. We're pleased to announce the release of version 1.7 of the Bogon Route-Server Project. The major change in release 1.7 is the addition of three more bogon route-servers to the bogon route-server project, for a total of four. These are all managed by Team Cymru, and provide additional redundancy for the project. All of the bogon route-servers announce the same bogon prefixes and use the same ASN and community. Folks are free to peer with as many as they like, though we recommend a minimum of two. Peering with the bogon route-servers is *FREE*, though you are welcome to buy a cup of coffee for Rob at the SLC NANOG if you feel kindly. :) You can read more about the project here: <http://www.cymru.com/BGP/bogon-rs.html> You can read more about bogon filtering and tracking here: <http://www.cymru.com/Bogons/> Thanks! Rob, for Team Cymru. -- Rob Thomas http://www.cymru.com ASSERT(coffee != empty);

1 0

The End Is Nigh... Asia's running out of IP addresses
by Juha Saarinen 28 May '03

28 May '03

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-1010666.html?tag=fdfeed I guess this means Australia/NZ too. Seems Joe's missive about IPv6 was quite prescient. -- Juha Saarinen

7 8

Re: [nznog] The End Is Nigh... Asia's running out of IP addresses
by Ewen McNeill 28 May '03

28 May '03

In message <Pine.LNX.4.30.0305291823140.17378-100000(a)boggle.ihug.co.nz>, Simon L yall writes: >On Thu, 29 May 2003, Joe Abley wrote: >> So, only 14% of the available IPv4 address space had been assigned to >> RIRs at the time of that presentation. > >Which is fairly meaningless since half those 202 are instead delegated >to Large Organisations, Various Registries etc. For sure. But if push comes to shove IANA can talk quietly (perhaps in the "talk quietly and carry a big stick" sense) to some of those Large Organisations and see if they couldn't perhaps manage with somewhat less than 2**24 addresses. >As the cost of putting a full IP stack and connection drops to only a >couple of dollars or less all sorts of random things will start having >them. And before you say NAT remember that the power company will want to >directly access your meter and hotwater cylinder, your car company the >car, your whiteware company the fridge etc. Did I mention the games >console? For many of those it could easily enough be done with NAT. It seems to me that "phoning home" isn't, inheriently, any more problematic than being able to interogate the devices remotely for the vendor. And it's probably somewhat preferable for the customer too. (Even if everything was globally routable, would you want Joe Random Company connecting in to arbitrary devices your network? This isn't your grandmother's Internet any longer. Sure you can use a firewall. You've just moved the problem to being one of ensuring a million or so firewalls are properly maintained. If I were a vendor, I'd take "phoning home".) >When stuff like that comes along we really want them to be deployed on a >nice ipv6 internet rather than have to suddenly switch cause demand >increases by a factor of 10 overnight. It would be nice to have $1,000,000 tomorrow too. I don't think either of them will happen.[0] Even at the current ease of use the cost/benefit ratio for converting to IPv6 is too low for (m)any(one) to put effort into doing so. It'll only be when there's a whole lot more benefit (eg, lots of IPv6-only services, or stuff which cannot be done with IPv4+NAT) or a lot less effort (works out of the box without even thinking about it, and has for years) that'll actually happen. Especially since we've had the better part of 10 years for everyone to get pretty good at designing IPv4+NAT compatible protocols and networks, thus greatly mitigating the perceived benefit of switching. Ewen [0] Although should someone wish to give me $1,000,000 tomorrow, I'd be willing to look suitably surprised on camera.

1 0

WTS Tracking controler and beacon receiver!
by Latchezar Dinev 28 May '03

28 May '03

1 0

WTS SSE Satellite SM3000modem in perfect condition
by Latchezar Dinev 28 May '03

28 May '03

1 0

WTS SSE Satellite SM3000modem in perfect condition
by Latchezar Dinev 28 May '03

28 May '03

1 0

WTS PM4 with 27E1 ports full loaded
by Latchezar Dinev 28 May '03

28 May '03

1 0

WTS CISCO AS5200-60DM-CH
by Latchezar Dinev 28 May '03

28 May '03

1 0

WTS 3COM Total Control 4E1 ports!
by Latchezar Dinev 28 May '03

28 May '03

1 0

IPv6 at APE
by Joe Abley 27 May '03

27 May '03

is anybody at the APE equipped to do IPv6 peering? Private replies are fine, I'll summarise if there's interest (and if there are replies).

11 18

Netforum Call for Papers
by Donald Neal 27 May '03

27 May '03

Roger De Salis sent this to the list: - - - - - The Netforum conference for 2003 is scheduled for July 10,11,12. The Theme of the conference is Next Generation Internet: Advanced Network Operations and Computer Networking in Aviation The conference will be extremely technical with >2/3 content devoted to advanced networking and related topics. Speakers are invited to submit proposals for papers to the conference committee by sending a synopsis and Title to "netforum(a)fx.net.nz". We look forward to an expanded conference in 2003, and the conference committee will be working very hard to meet or exceed the standard set by the 2002 conference, which I hope many of you enjoyed. The committee looks forward to receiving proposals. ==================================================================== In a similar manner, attendees are welcome to suggest topics or papers they are interested in seeing, and the conference organisers will then be able to help persuade likely speakersto stump up a talk. Send to "suggestions(a)fx.net.nz" Rgds Roger De Salis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 2

Re: [nznog] IPv6 at APE
by Ewen McNeill 25 May '03

25 May '03

In message <5.2.0.9.1.20030526172452.055d4380(a)mail.igrin.co.nz>, Simon Byrnand writes: >The problem I can see with the introduction of ipv6 is that its such a >fundamental change, a bit like converting an entire country from imperial >to metric, except that you're trying to convert the WHOLE world :) Which sounds bad, except when you realise that the process doesn't require a "flag day", and has been very carefully designed so that it can happen over the course of several years (dual stacks, tunnels, etc). The major thing which is leading to slow progress, IMHO, is the lack of a really compelling need for it. IPv4 + NAT is a 90% solution. (OTOH there's something approaching a compelling need ofr multicasting, and that hasn't exactly happened much since last year either.) I think you're probably right that it'll take a very long time before IPv4 will be completely gone. But there've been plenty of other network protocols and many of them are nearly extinct. ("Native" windows networking is nearly gone -- haven't seen it in ages -- and even IPX is looking endangered (Novell went IP a couple of versions back), without even looking at protocols which were much less widely deployed.) FWIW, I do still keep meaning to experiment some more with IPv6 given some spare time, especially as most (all?) of the operating systems I'm using support IPv6 out of the box (OpenBSD, Linux, Solaris, etc, all support it out of the box these days). Ewen

1 0

Historical netblock allocation data?
by Juha Saarinen 22 May '03

22 May '03

Is there any publicly accessible repository that keeps information as to changes in netblock allocations? That is, noting to whom e.g. 152.152.0.0/16 or whatever was allocated originally, as opposed to whatever the current info happens to say? -- Juha Saarinen

1 0

Clear Dunedin Routing??
by Dan Clark 22 May '03

22 May '03

Hi guys, Is anyone on a local Clear/Telstra Frame anywhere in Dunedin area? Basicly we can see everything apart from another local ISP here in Dunedin on a similar Clear Frame as us. Its weird, we try connecting to port 25 on their IP and it fails, they try the same thing towards us with similar results. If we trace route to each other we get to an auckland clear router, then sent to wellington, then back to auckland in what seems like a loop. Can anyone shed some light on the situation, or if anyone else has a similar Clear POP in Dunedin area? Regards Dan Clark Network Manager Scarfies.Net Ltd

2 1

New and unacknowledged Exchange / Win2k SMTP vulnerability?
by Neil Gardner 21 May '03

21 May '03

Hi guys - for the last few weeks I've been working with Microsoft to try and track down why on Earth a correctly configured Exchange 2000 Server has been relaying. All of the standard sites report that it's closed, my own telnetting to it says it's closed, and yes, I've accounted for trojans on the LAN - but we're still going to try unplugging the rest of the LAN at some stage for a while and see what happens. But still, it's relaying. I add the IPs as I see them to a blacklist and it quietens down for a while, and MS keep promising they'll find the problem - but I send them SMTP logs, System and App logs and nothing adds up. All tests show it's closed, and all Logs (and complaining recipients) prove it's open for at least one attacker. Most of the reported sender addresses are in the format SMTPxxxx.YAHOO.COM (where xxxx is a random 4 digit number) But all resolve to chinanet or something. Recently though (today), they have been reporting as just 'exploder' or 'range' This is screaming 'vulnerability' to me, but MS refuse to acknowledge anything. I have heard in the last 20 minutes that a different organisation in Wgtn (with a different integrator) is having exactly the same problem, and that "Telecom is talking to Microsoft about it, but is getting nowhere" - I can't substantiate that yet though. No, the client isn't using an SMTP AV gateway, or firewall, Yes, they should be - and this will may in fact be the straw that broke the Financial Controllers back. But my current question is does anyone know WHAT this attack is, or if there's a configuration workaround I can do short of sticking a non win2k SMTP gateway between the net and Exchange? I can't post the SMTP logs publically because of a confidentiality agreement, but if anyone has an idea and would like to see a sample, please let me know and I'll see if the IT admin of the affected site will allow it. Cheers - Neil G.

1 0

Netforum 2003
by Roger De Salis 20 May '03

20 May '03

/* Early bird registrations close on 30th May, so please make sure you have your bookings in, we only have so much space.. */ The following additional talks have been scheduled for the conference Simon Lyall has kindly volunteered a talk about SPAM from an ISP perspective ----------------------------- - Filtering Products and and technology - Customer expectations - Managing Customer expectations ------------------------------------------------------- David Harris, of Pegasus fame is travelling all the way from Dunedin to talk about spam from the MUA persepctive and join a panel discussion on SPAM, and possible ISP and User solutions(?) to SPAM, which we all know is reaching epidemic proportions..... (should there be a small programming competition, the best 5 line perl program which can generate the most eloquent version of "my name is Enkidei Duee, son of Fred Duee, who has some implausible sum in the bank, and needs.....") ----------------------------------------------------------- David Hawke from Genaware is talking about GIS on Linux, and will no doubt have some comments about Linux on the desktop as opposed to linux in a server environment. ------------------------------------------------------------- KC Claffy from Caida in San Diego has indicated a willingness to join us in Auckland, and talk about some of the stuff CAIDA get up to. ------------------------------------------------------------ The flight simulator demo will include a discussion about the power of the internet to accelerate development, and particularly hooking the display (3-5 projectors) to live telemetry data and radio channels, thus effectively hooking yourself into the cockpit of a 737 currently landing at Auckland Airport. ------------------------------------------------------------ As we get closer to the conference, I shall be sending out small notes weekly to add the various talks and information as it comes to hand.. Rgds Roger De Salis -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)fx.net.nz </' FX Networks +64 25 481 452 /) Wellington, New Zealand roger(a)desalis.gen.nz (/ ` DSL - the 56k modem technology of 2004

1 0

Sun RAQ's
by Matthew G Brown 20 May '03

20 May '03

Who in NZ distributes Sun's Cobalt range Web Hosting Appliances? Any admins have a good contact ? Best Regards Matthew G Brown B & R Holdings LTD http://www.brh.co.nz

2 1

RE: [nznog] XTRA Primary DNS Funkiness?
by Neil Gardner 19 May '03

19 May '03

Well, after 5 days of constant hassling, someone from Xtra finally rang me back and said they had fixed the TCP query problem on alien, and it does appear to be ok (for me at least) now... They also mentioned off the record that alien was slow this morning but didn't elaborate. They did say they were looking at it though. Cheers - N. -----Original Message----- From: Simon Byrnand [mailto:simon(a)igrin.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 20 May 2003 10:47 a.m. To: Neil Gardner; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] XTRA Primary DNS Funkiness? At 17:26 15/05/03 +1200, Neil Gardner wrote: >Hi guys - has anyone noticed anything funky with Xtra's DNS over the >last 2 or 3 days? I have a client that had periodic mail buildups on >outbound SMTP and the error was 'Unable to bind to the destination >server in DNS'. After lots of false starts I got to Xtra DNS... Just checked both Xtra's DNS servers now for other reasons (tracking down an incorrect authorative dns record) and noticed that 202.27.184.3 is sometimes not responding at all - just getting a timeout rather than incomplete data. 202.27.184.5 seems ok. Regards, Simon

1 0

Re: [nznog] XTRA Primary DNS Funkiness?
by Simon Byrnand 19 May '03

19 May '03

At 17:26 15/05/03 +1200, Neil Gardner wrote: >Hi guys - has anyone noticed anything funky with Xtra's DNS over the >last 2 or 3 days? I have a client that had periodic mail buildups on >outbound SMTP and the error was 'Unable to bind to the destination >server in DNS'. After lots of false starts I got to Xtra DNS... Just checked both Xtra's DNS servers now for other reasons (tracking down an incorrect authorative dns record) and noticed that 202.27.184.3 is sometimes not responding at all - just getting a timeout rather than incomplete data. 202.27.184.5 seems ok. Regards, Simon

1 0

Anti Spam software
by Terence Bllyth 19 May '03

19 May '03

Can anyone tell me what the name of the Linux spam stopping software is, some one mentioned it a while ago, Email senders have to send a reply to it before it will pass on the email. (I know this description is vague). Thanks Terence Blyth Managing Director Computer Technologies Ltd 19 Alma Street Box 584, Nelson New Zealand Phone ++ 643 545 9001 Fax ++ 643 545 9002 www.ctec.co.nz PRIVILEGED - PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information, which is confidential or privileged. If you receive this email and you are not the addressee (or responsible for delivery of the email to the addressee), please disregard the contents of the email, delete the email and notify the author immediately.

6 5

[c-announce] The InternetNZ Festival of Technology and AGM June 18-20 2003
by Peter Macaulay 19 May '03

19 May '03

(Informal announcement!) Please plan to be in Wellington for at least some part of these three days. The InternetNZ team, Industry NZ, the Next Generation Internet, and TUANZ in partnership with most of our sibling organisations has assembled an event which will deliver impact and value for every member of the internet community. The festival is is a work in progress and your input is welcome. To see the draft program. www.internetnz.net.nz/members/agm2003/festival_of_technology.html We will keep you informed through the discussion list as we develop the event. Please let any of your associates and friends now about our event. Registration will be available in the next week. We have appointed Martin Foster ( martin(a)internetnz.net.nz )as Festival Maestro. -- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113 _______________________________________________

1 0

XTRA Primary DNS Funkiness?
by Neil Gardner 18 May '03

18 May '03

Hi guys - has anyone noticed anything funky with Xtra's DNS over the last 2 or 3 days? I have a client that had periodic mail buildups on outbound SMTP and the error was 'Unable to bind to the destination server in DNS'. After lots of false starts I got to Xtra DNS... >Nslookup >Set vc (to force TCP which is I think SMTP's default lookup protocol) >Set q=mx >Server 202.27.184.3 I tried that and got much strangeness when I put in >swiftlink.co.nz I should have gotten... >Server: alien.xtra.co.nz >Address: 202.27.184.3 > >Non-authoritative answer: >swiftlink.co.nz MX preference = 10, mail exchanger = mail.swiftlink.co.nz > >swiftlink.co.nz nameserver = dns1.clear.net.nz >swiftlink.co.nz nameserver = dns2.clear.net.nz >mail.swiftlink.co.nz internet address = 203.167.202.72 >dns1.clear.net.nz internet address = 203.97.33.1 >dns2.clear.net.nz internet address = 203.97.37.1 And in fact, I often do, but I also get... >Server: alien.xtra.co.nz >Address: 202.27.184.3 > >Non-authoritative answer: That's right, end of report - I have received stranger though - how about this??? >Server: alien.xtra.co.nz >Address: 202.27.184.3 >Non-authoritative answer: >swiftlink.co.nz MX preference = 10, mail exchanger = mail.swiftlink.co.nz >swiftlink.co.nz nameserver = Invalid Name at offset 66! >*** Error: record size incorrect (-326254 != 17) >Non-authoritative answer: >swiftlink.co.nz MX preference = 10, mail exchanger = mail.swiftlink.co.nz >swiftlink.co.nz nameserver = Invalid Name at offset 66! >*** Error: record size incorrect (-326254 != 17) >*** alien.xtra.co.nz can't find swiftlink.co.nz: Unspecified error (Blank lines removed for readability - sorry if they were important) I have reproduced these results from 3 different Internet connections, 2 Jetstreams (Both with Xtra) and a Jetstart with Attica. Same results at all 3 places... Oh, if I type >server 203.97.33.14 It all works perfectly... I rang Xtra and did speak to someone that sounded as if they knew what they were talking about, and even emailed copies of the above logs, and they claimed that nothing was wrong. Have I missed something blindingly obvious? Also, omitting 'set vc' to leave it on UDP makes alien.xtra.co.nz play nice again. Late discovery - 202.27.184.5 seems ok - this makes me suspect Xtra has problems even more, but my problems have been manifest over the last 3-4 days and they have denied any problems. Cheers - Neil Gardner Swiftlink NZ.

9 8

RE: [nznog] XTRA mail system
by Neil Gardner 18 May '03

18 May '03

Well, I was having big problems with Mail delivery from an Xtra ADSL connection a few days ago and it turned out to be a misbehaving alien.xtra.co.nz - it was intermittently returning empty results or actual errors. Xtra fobbed me off and said there was nothing wrong with it, even in the face of logs showing actual errors... Any chance they are related? Am I going to get a bunch of calls from clients with Xtra this morning? Cheers - Neil G Simon Lyall wrote: >A quick look at the logs shows it's been dead since around 23:56 last night >apart from a couple of 10 minute wondows around an hour ago. A few errors >before that even. The online Network status even shows a problem so it must >be really bad (I've got a theory that Theresa has to approve these herself) > >They were advertising for a mail admin a couple of months ago so maybe the >new guy pressed the wrong button.

2 1

Correction....
by rdesalis＠paradise.net.nz 17 May '03

17 May '03

That should have read...... /* Early bird registrations close on the 30th MAY......" sorry about that... brain thinking 30 words ahead of fingers... Also John H'ng from APNIC will be providing a full days training on Wednesday the 9th July, to complement Joe Ableys tutorials... I'll be away from my mail for the next couple of days but my phone number is 025 481 452 should anyone have any queries about the conference.. Rgds Roger De Salis

1 0

SIP/PSTN gateway in New Zealand
by Joe Abley 14 May '03

14 May '03

Does anybody know of any SIP/PSTN gateways operating in New Zealand, commercial or otherwise?

1 0

RE: [nznog] Xtra having smtp problems ?
by Michael Bordignon 08 May '03

08 May '03

> db:/var/www/webmail2/horde/imp# telnet xtra.co.nz 25 > Trying 202.27.184.102... > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: No route to host My apologies, wrong host.. though same response for mta.xtra.co.nz

3 2

RE: [nznog] Xtra having smtp problems ?
by Alan Howard 08 May '03

08 May '03

One of my colleagues has spoken to the helpdesk who informed him that there was a minor problem with emails being delayed approx 2 hours. Regards Alan. Pacific Technology Solutions -----Original Message----- From: Edward Yardley [mailto:edward(a)edan.co.nz] Sent: Friday, 9 May 2003 16:47 To: Simon Byrnand Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Xtra having smtp problems ? I just tried it on another line here - seemed to work fine. Edward Edan NET ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Byrnand" <simon(a)igrin.co.nz> To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 4:43 PM Subject: [nznog] Xtra having smtp problems ? > Hi People, > > Is anyone else noticing problems trying to deliver mail to xtra ? I've just > noticed I've got several hours worth of stuff in the outgoing queue > for xtra that isn't getting through. Manually telneting to > mta.xtra.co.nz 25 results in a hanging connection. > > Naturally, "Currently there are no known problems on the Xtra > network." according to Xtra's help page ;-) > > Regards, > Simon Byrnand > iGRIN Internet > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

1 0

RE: [nznog] Xtra having smtp problems ?
by Michael Bordignon 08 May '03

08 May '03

> > Hi People, > > > > Is anyone else noticing problems trying to deliver mail to > xtra ? I've > just > > noticed I've got several hours worth of stuff in the > outgoing queue for > > xtra that isn't getting through. Manually telneting to > mta.xtra.co.nz 25 > > results in a hanging connection. > > > > Naturally, "Currently there are no known problems on the > Xtra network." > > according to Xtra's help page ;-) db:/var/www/webmail2/horde/imp# telnet xtra.co.nz 25 Trying 202.27.184.102... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: No route to host

1 0

Xtra having smtp problems ?
by Simon Byrnand 08 May '03

08 May '03

Hi People, Is anyone else noticing problems trying to deliver mail to xtra ? I've just noticed I've got several hours worth of stuff in the outgoing queue for xtra that isn't getting through. Manually telneting to mta.xtra.co.nz 25 results in a hanging connection. Naturally, "Currently there are no known problems on the Xtra network." according to Xtra's help page ;-) Regards, Simon Byrnand iGRIN Internet

2 1

Can anyone tell me
by Simon Son 08 May '03

08 May '03

Can anyone tell me how ISP differentiate how much National and International traffic their jetstart customers uses? I think that If accounting packet is proxies from telecom's radius,then ISP must do something to distinguish National and International traffic. Thanks in advance SImon

5 5

Cisco 7206/7204 router chassis...
by Dan Clark 07 May '03

07 May '03

Hi all, Does anyone happen to have a Cisco 7206/7204 router chassis we could borrow for a lab/project for a short period of time? Please contact me offlist. Kind Regards Dan Clark Network Manager Scarfies.Net Ltd

1 0

OT: Cisco Flash
by Dan Clark 07 May '03

07 May '03

Hey guys, I'm after a 16 Meg Cisco Flash Card, would anyone of you happen to have one spare? If you do, please contact me off-list Regards, Dan Clark Network Manager Scarfies.Net Ltd

2 1

Anyone want a job?
by Mark Frater 07 May '03

07 May '03

http://www.quicksilver.net.nz/sysadmin.html contact me off list. Mark

1 0

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 05 May '03

05 May '03

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. NZNOG held a face to face gathering as part of the UniForum NZ conference in 2002, and is to do the same again from 10-12 July this year. See http://www.uniforum.org.nz/conference 2003/conference.html for details. The NZNOG schedule there is well short of final. NZNOG doesn't hold other national face to face meetings, but see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Auckland Peering Exchange See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. About This Mailing List This list has around 470 addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Live Web Presentations On the Certificate in Web-based Instruction
by Derek Lee 05 May '03

05 May '03

Hi: I would like to invite you to a live Web presentation from The Learning and Instructional Development Centre at Simon Fraser University (www.sfu.ca/lidc/telestraining/) about the Certificate in Web-Based Instruction (CWI), an online program to teach participants to design, produce, and teach online courses. The CWI instructors will give presentations to respond to questions about the next offering of the program, scheduled on June 2nd. There will be three presentation sessions in May: May 12 - 1200hrs Pacific Time (GMT -08:00), May 21 - 1700hrs Pacific Time (GMT -08:00), and May 26 - 0800hrs Pacific Time (GMT -08:00). These interactive presentations will be led by the program instructors Dr. Lucio Teles and Judith Jensen. Please go to http://www.sfu.ca/lidc/telestraining for more information and to register for the presentation sessions. If you have questions about the program, please contact Jill Jodrey at jajodrey(a)sfu.ca Derek Lee

1 0

people blocking "all APNIC space"
by Joe Abley 04 May '03

04 May '03

There's recurring wisdom on other lists that people outside the Asia Pacific region routinely block "all APNIC space" in order to reduce the amount of spam they receive (the most recent example was on NANOG, when someone inferred that APNIC address space was useless because it is so regularly blocked). I've run MTAs numbered within 202/8 and 203/8 before, and I've never noticed a problem; if the practice of blocking all APNIC space was that commonplace, I would have expected to have noticed. Maybe I was just lucky, or maybe these block-happy ISPs don't include 202/8 and 203/8 in "all APNIC space". Anybody here noticed widespread blocking of any APNIC ranges by ISPs elsewhere in the world? Joe

6 5

RE: [nznog] IPv6 in NZ?
by Paul Brislen 04 May '03

04 May '03

In defence of the Xtra PR spokeswoman Anna, I have to say she is entirely new to the world of ICT and when I asked her about IP numbers/addresses she'd never heard the term before... I asked her about IPv6 more as a separate point ("... and what about plans to roll out IPv6?") rather than as a solution to the allocation issue... I guess it's not really on topic to have it in the story alongside the rest but she had so little to say on the matter (oddly) that there really wasn't enough for a separate story.

2 1

OT - Remote access
by rod_christie＠wilsonandhorton.co.nz 30 Apr '03

30 Apr '03

OT - Is anyone working on anything new for high-speed remote access, for areas that will never yet DSL or other cable services? Satellite with dialup is fine, but after 15 km of copper, having bypassed electric fence units, then factoring encapsulation, corporate VPN, and remote access client to said box, more gg's would be good. It's a question I get asked from time to time. Any suggestions would be good. Reply of list. Cheers Rod Christie APN News & Media *************************************************************************** This may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Wilson & Horton Limited. For more information on Wilson & Horton please visit our web site at http://www.wilsonandhorton.co.nz ***************************************************************************

2 1

Re: [nznog] people blocking "all APNIC space"
by Steve Phillips 29 Apr '03

29 Apr '03

Just recently came across another blocking of 210.0.0.0/8 with chat servers. While probably not considered by many to be a productive service :-) it does still show attitudes that say "APNIC ? forget it" and this attitude appears to be markedly prevalent amongst US based admins and now appears to be expanding to cover services other than e-mail. -- Steve. At 11:46 30/04/2003 +1200, Alastair Johnson wrote: >Yes - we have seen this quite reguarly. Specifically, the >210/8 network seems particuarly disliked. > >pbi.net used to block connections from 210/8 but not from >202/7 for a good part of 2002. > > >We have customers complain about it every so often, but I forget >what the most recent case was - some little ISP in TX, IIRC. > > >aj... > >On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Joe Abley wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:35:10 -0400 > > From: Joe Abley <jabley(a)automagic.org> > > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Subject: [nznog] people blocking "all APNIC space" > > > > There's recurring wisdom on other lists that people outside the Asia > > Pacific region routinely block "all APNIC space" in order to reduce the > > amount of spam they receive (the most recent example was on NANOG, when > > someone inferred that APNIC address space was useless because it is so > > regularly blocked). > > > > I've run MTAs numbered within 202/8 and 203/8 before, and I've never > > noticed a problem; if the practice of blocking all APNIC space was that > > commonplace, I would have expected to have noticed. Maybe I was just > > lucky, or maybe these block-happy ISPs don't include 202/8 and 203/8 in > > "all APNIC space". > > > > Anybody here noticed widespread blocking of any APNIC ranges by ISPs > > elsewhere in the world? > > > > > > Joe > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > >--- >Never attempt with words what can be achieved with a flame thrower. > >_______________________________________________ >Nznog mailing list >Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

2 1

WTS: CISCO AS5800 192VOX 2CT3 - new! Oboxed - LOW PRICE!
by cavin＠getintoweb.com 26 Apr '03

26 Apr '03

We have 2 units in stock ready to ship - GREAT & LOW PRICE! OBO: CISCO AS5800 ACCESS SERVER w/ DS58-192VOX + DS58-2CT3 FULLY LOADED !!! (1 of) AS5800 Top Level Dial Shelf Controller Card (2 of) AS5800 12-Port T3 Ingress Line Card The AS5800 supports up to two channelized T3 (CT3) interfaces. Each CT3 interface delivers up to 672 calls. info: http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/as/as5800/prodlit/as58_ov.htm They are new, open box. - GREAT & LOW PRICE! OBO Standard 90 day warranty Please email me or call me directly. Ask us for Cisco 12416 OC3 (4)OC12 OC48 6DS3 cards or 15454 chassis. Cavin PP 408-921-5028 cavin(a)getintoweb.com

1 0

Telstra Outage
by robbie_gernandt＠wilsonandhorton.co.nz 16 Apr '03

16 Apr '03

Did anybody else experience problems with Telstra IP Services this morning ( 00:30 to 02:00 and 06:50 to 7:50)? Apparently one of their main core switches had a faulty port or something, I'm still waiting for a report Robbie Gernandt Network Consultant APN News & Media robbie_gernandt(a)apn.co.nz Mobile: (64) 21 736 086 DDI: (64) 9 977 9577 Fax: (64) 9 373 6411 *************************************************************************** This may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Wilson & Horton Limited. For more information on Wilson & Horton please visit our web site at http://www.wilsonandhorton.co.nz ***************************************************************************

2 1