- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Geeks Put the Unsavvy on Alert: Learn or Log Off
by Andy Linton 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

Follow up to discussions at BGP04 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/05/technology/05VIRU.html?ex=1077173129&ei=1…

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Gordon Smith 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

The splitting of national vs international traffic is an interesting point, and not very common internationally i.e. the people that write the applications that provide traffic calculations don't differentiate the two. Arguably, it is possible to do this with BGP communities; assuming, of course, that both Telecom and Telstra were willing to exchange national routing information at peering points with other providers. Otherwise the split will not be very accurate. >From the perspective of software management, I do know that boxes like the ERX pass traffic accounting information in the form of RADIUS interim accounting records, and as such have absolutely no awareness of traffic paths. In order to do a split, I'd guess that you'd have to come up with a way of reconciling NetFlow data with radius records, and I'm pretty sure that'd be pretty hard to make scalable Cheers, Gordon

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Neil Gardner 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

I'm a heavy internet user. I'd change plans in a second if this plan differentiated National/International Data. But as far as I can see it doesn't. That's why Telecom can afford to offer a 10GB plan, depending on the user, much or all of this 10Gb will be the 'almost free' national variety.[1] Telecom could remove the incentive for other broadband players to go for the ADSL market by just making a 256/256 with reasonably large (10GB) International plans and free National data, and then pricing it at $89. They would appear to have listened to the vocal minority wanting better broadband, yet have protected their market and lined their own pockets even more. Anyone that REALLY wants to setup alternatives with wireless would still have markets to go for (Higher speed, more geographically spread population etc) to target, so they couldn't complain that Telecom is being monopolistic. Even then, Telecom would wholesale the new plans and the ISPs would have something to offer. No, I know it doesn't fix the root cause of Telecom being able to decide on the plan, the cost and the caps - but if Telecom listened and upped the plans once the masses started grumbling - they could stay ahead of the problem and keep the marketspace clear and collect for every (virtually) home broadband connection in the country for the forseeable future... Cheers - N. [1] The national packets are packed in blain brown paper headers, the International ones get gold plated by hand before shipping. -- Cheers - Neil Gardner Networking and Security Support Engineer Renaissance Brands (09) 968-3681 / (021) 746-345 -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Manson [mailto:evil_bry(a)xtra.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 2:37 p.m. To: 'Jeremy Brooking'; 'Juha Saarinen' Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? Another interesting point... there is *again* no national/international differentiation. We have this with 128/128 jetstart plans, one would think telecom will have put some consideration into this with their new plans.. Sure, 10 gig is a bit. But 10 gig national? What's that costing telecom? I guess it is a step in the right direction, but we are still stuck banging our heads on brick walls stuck in the Stone Age to some extent. Juha Saarinen wrote: > > Not leaked -- annnounced today. > > Note that the pricing will be $10 less for customers who put all their > calls through Telecom. > > $39.95/$49.95 for the 1GB plan with 5c/MB excess $49.95/$59.95 for the > 3GB plan with 5c/MB excess $59.95/$69.95 for the 10GB plan with no > excess charging, but throttling > > That's retail, with/without Telecom Calling. Resale is $10 less. > Surely this must be seen as anti-competitive behaviour by the commerce commision. Who in their right mind is going to use another tolls provider, to save themselves $5 a month on calls, when being Telecom dangle this carrot infront of them. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Donald Neal 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

This list does not exist for the discussion of general Internet-related issues, but specifically for technical and operational matters. This does not include discussion of whether people do or do not like anyone's retail pricing. This thread should either acquire some technical content or go away. Please before posting consider the list's Acceptable Use Policy, which begins: "The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate." - Donald Neal NZNOG List Administrator Donald Neal | "Fiasco - an unsuccessful Technical Specialist | wall painting." Operations Engineering | Integration & Services Divn. | - Sandi Toksvig Alcatel NZ Ltd | All opinions mine only. | > -----Original Message----- > From: nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On > Behalf Of Jonathan > Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 14:35 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? > > > > > Where does this idea of of the customer deserving > flatrate broadband > > > for peanuts come from? > > I beleive this idea comes from other countries where more than one > telecommunications provider offers DSL/Cable systems, and > there is actual > competition. > > This is a great improvement from Telecom, however does not > compare to other > countries internet pricing. Being fair this could be put down > to the lower > quanitity of usable lines in NZ compared to the US, I don't > think we'll be > able to get the same prices as the US ever purely due to > population density > restrictions, however I do think the price could be > dramaticly lower and > Telecom still profit. > > Dont mean to be a complainer, I do like these new Telecom DSL > offers, they > are much better. JetStart actually qualifying as 'broadband' > with the 256K > download spec. Speed limiting in my eyes is a much preffered > alternative to > the huge cash bill at the end of the month. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juha Saarinen" <juha(a)saarinen.org> > To: "Finnigan, Jamie (NZ - Wellington)" <jfinnigan(a)deloitte.co.nz> > Cc: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? > > > > Finnigan, Jamie (NZ - Wellington) wrote: > > > > > > > Conversely, where does the idea that Telecom deserves exemption from > > competition come from? Corporate charity? > > > > > > > CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains > information that > > > is both confidential and possibly legally privileged. No > reader may > > > make any use of its content unless that use is approved > by Deloitte > > > separately in writing. Any opinion, advice or information > contained > > > in this e-mail and any attachment(s) is to be treated as > interim and > > > provisional only and for the strictly limited purpose of the > > > recipient as communicated to us. Neither the recipient > nor any other > > > person should act upon it without our separate written > authorisation > > > of reliance. > > > > > > Deloitte is a member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte > > > Touche Tohmatsu is a Swiss Verein (association), and, as such, > > > neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member > firms has any > > > liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member > > > firms is a separate and independent legal entity > operating under the > > > names "Deloitte," "Deloitte & Touche," "Deloitte Touche > Tohmatsu," or > > > other related names. Services are provided by the member firms and > > > not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein. > > > > > > If you have received this message in error please notify us > > > immediately and destroy this message. Thank you. > > > > > > Deloitte Internet: www.deloitte.co.nz > > > > http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/ > > > > -- > > Juha > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Simon Oldham 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

<snip> And do you think they will have it set up for allocation of Static IP's?? Current Jetstart/5GB plan and static IP assignment are 'incompatible', supposedly, as this are not properly routable (must be nat'd or somit') This is a marked improvement in contrast to pricing plans they've provided in the past, and they appear to have listened to what their customers have been asking for. Good on ya, Telecom. But I guess there will always be complainers.. :) Jamie [1] feel free to replace with 'abused', 'used as it should be', 'enjoyed', and any other term you wish according to your own viewpoint. -- CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains information that is both confidential and possibly legally privileged. No reader may make any use of its content unless that use is approved by Deloitte separately in writing. Any opinion, advice or information contained in this e-mail and any attachment(s) is to be treated as interim and provisional only and for the strictly limited purpose of the recipient as communicated to us. Neither the recipient nor any other person should act upon it without our separate written authorisation of reliance. Deloitte is a member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu is a Swiss Verein (association), and, as such, neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member firms has any liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member firms is a separate and independent legal entity operating under the names "Deloitte," "Deloitte & Touche," "Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu," or other related names. Services are provided by the member firms and not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein. If you have received this message in error please notify us immediately and destroy this message. Thank you. Deloitte Internet: www.deloitte.co.nz _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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If anyone is running their IPv6 machines on OpenBSD....
by Simon Oldham 05 Feb '04

05 Feb '04

Ladies and Gents, This was pushed onto the Slashdot stack not long ago, might bear some investigation if your platform of choice for your IPv6 is Open BSD 3.4 http://www.guninski.com/obsdmtu.html If the list has already seen this, please excuse the disturbing of your New Zealand Day (opps, Waitangi)

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Solution to spam problem
by Andy Linton 05 Feb '04

05 Feb '04

Just when you thought the Internet sucked beyond redemption your faith in the net gods gets restored. Now let's find an answer for world hunger and peace. http://www.thespeciousreport.com/03031216nospam.html Has anybody idea how they make this work? (:-)

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NOG Conference stuff
by Peter Macaulay 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

Great Event. Well run, good attendance. Attaboys all round. Sorry to miss the curry though. InternetNZ has enjoyed supporting the NOG, and has agreed to consider of more initiatives such as the IPV6 lab. Lotto results: Confirming that Craig Whitmore won the Linksys WRT54G. This was shipped to him yesterday. After a shipping saga, the Mulitcast books arrived here in Wellington today via Auckland, Hamilton, Auckland, Wellington. Michael Sutton is preparing the list, and Janet will ship these in the next day or so. We have yet to decide whether to order more than the original 25 so no one misses out. Commercial break --- if you are not a member of InternetNZ sign up now! https://secure.internetnz.net.nz/membership/individmem.html -- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

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Dean Moreton/Christchurch/Foodstuffs is out of the office.
by Dean Moreton 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

I will be out of the office starting 02/02/2004 and will not return until 09/02/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. If you have any urgent queries please contact another member of the PC Support team. ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content by both MailMarshal and Norton's Antivirus. Attention: The information contained in this message and or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Please note that the views and opinions expressed in this message may be those of the individual and not necessarily those of Foodstuffs (South Island) Ltd #####################################################################################

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Re: [nznog] The Internet for n00bs
by Ewen McNeill 02 Feb '04

02 Feb '04

In message <401C49BA.5040507(a)saarinen.org>, Juha Saarinen writes: >There's something wrong about neutering the 'Net for newbies instead of >going after those who spoil it for them. FWIW, Dean's talk wasn't solely about people spoiling the net for newbies (although there's a lot of that too), but also that they're inadvertantly doing dumb things because it's not obvious that it's dumb and it's not obvious that there's a better way to do it. (For instance consider a newbie mailing out a 10MB attachement to the whole company when they could have just sent a link.) To that end I think that "seamless integration" of the local network (and local machine) and the Internet is counterproductive -- there really are differences and sometimes you've still got to be aware of them. (Not everyone has a gigabit link to their house yet.) >Given how spammers, phishers, crackers, VXers et al have so far managed >to work around every countermeasure devised against them, I have reason >to believe even NewbieNet would only be a temporary fix. Indeed. That was basically my point in one of the talks, that whatever restrictions you put in place would be "routed around" by those with an incentive to do so. Okay you're down to "mere applications", but applications -- especially those used by newbies -- are notoriously insecure. (Some of them even have extra, designed in, insecurity.) Jamie (Baddeley)'s suggestion of thin client is perhaps one of the few ways you might get enough control over the end appliance to control things; another is perhaps Knoppix-style bootable-readonly-device (or perhaps something PS/2, Xbox, etc like). My point was that you can get 75% of the immediate benefit of a "newbie applicance network" right now simply by firewalling customer connections at the edge -- and that if you do, please provide an opt-out mechanism. (I'd really prefer that it wasn't necessary to buy, say, a E1 link (wholesale connectivity) in order to get reasonably unfiltered access. And tunnelling everywhere sucks.) That said, short of a rigorous punishment technique,[0] rigorously applied, I don't think we're going to get all of those that spoil the 'net. Ewen [0] Death. Or perhaps transportation to the colonies. I hear Mars isn't too crowded this time of year.

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RE: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work
by Tristram Cheer 02 Feb '04

02 Feb '04

Just one of those days, format and reinstall and a little rushed. Too hot in Wellington I think ############################ Tristram Cheer Mobile: - 021-334-766 Work: - 04-499-9486 Fax: - 04-499-9586 After Hours: - 04-237-7593 ############################################################################ ######### This correspondence is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information, or both. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose copy or rely on any part of this correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. -----Original Message----- From: Kim Shepherd [mailto:kims(a)waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 2:32 p.m. To: 'Trisram Cheer' Subject: RE: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work I can't offer you a job, sorry, but I can remind you that you've fogotten the second 't' in your name in your "From" line... Which might help with prospective employers? ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Trisram Cheer [mailto:james.edward(a)paradise.net.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 2:25 p.m. > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: RE: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work > > Whops! > > > > Wellington > > > > ############################################ > > Tristram Cheer > > Mobile: - 021-334-766 > > Work: - 04-499-9486 > > Fax: - 04-499-9586 > > After Hours: - 04-237-7593 > > > > ############################################################## > ####################### > > This correspondence is for the named person's use only. It > may contain confidential or legally privileged information, > or both. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by > any mistransmission. If you receive this correspondence in > error, please immediately delete it from your system and > notify the sender. You must not disclose copy or rely on any > part of this correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. > > ________________________________ > > From: Dan Clark [mailto:dan(a)scarfies.net] > Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 2:28 p.m. > To: Trisram Cheer > Subject: Re: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work > > > > what area? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Trisram Cheer <mailto:james.edward(a)paradise.net.nz> > > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:21 PM > > Subject: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work > > > > Apologies if this is too OT > > > > I've recently been made redundant and work finishes end > of this week. If anyone knows of any Helpdesk, User support > or Hardware support (workshop etc) Then please drop me a line > off list > > > > > > Thanks > > > > ############################################ > > Tristram Cheer > > Mobile: - 021-334-766 > > Work: - 04-499-9486 > > Fax: - 04-499-9586 > > After Hours: - 04-237-7593 > > > > > ############################################################## > ####################### > > This correspondence is for the named person's use only. > It may contain confidential or legally privileged > information, or both. No confidentiality or privilege is > waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this > correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from > your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose copy > or rely on any part of this correspondence if you are not the > intended recipient. > > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > >

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RE: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work
by Trisram Cheer 02 Feb '04

02 Feb '04

Whops! Wellington ############################################ Tristram Cheer Mobile: - 021-334-766 Work: - 04-499-9486 Fax: - 04-499-9586 After Hours: - 04-237-7593 ############################################################################ ######### This correspondence is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information, or both. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose copy or rely on any part of this correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. _____ From: Dan Clark [mailto:dan(a)scarfies.net] Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 2:28 p.m. To: Trisram Cheer Subject: Re: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work what area? ----- Original Message ----- From: Trisram <mailto:james.edward(a)paradise.net.nz> Cheer To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:21 PM Subject: [nznog] OT: Looking For Work Apologies if this is too OT I've recently been made redundant and work finishes end of this week. If anyone knows of any Helpdesk, User support or Hardware support (workshop etc) Then please drop me a line off list Thanks ############################################ Tristram Cheer Mobile: - 021-334-766 Work: - 04-499-9486 Fax: - 04-499-9586 After Hours: - 04-237-7593 ############################################################################ ######### This correspondence is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information, or both. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this correspondence in error, please immediately delete it from your system and notify the sender. You must not disclose copy or rely on any part of this correspondence if you are not the intended recipient. _____ _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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JetStream Games Realm Adminitrator...
by Dan Clark 02 Feb '04

02 Feb '04

Hi all, Can someone please point me in the direction of the JetStream Games Realm administrator, or his/her boss please. Offlist. Kind Regards Dan Clark Network Manager Scarfies.Net Ltd

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Credit card fraudsters......
by Steve Withers 02 Feb '04

02 Feb '04

In my e-mail this morning, with a clickable button to take me to their 'secure site': From: security(a)visa-security.com Dear Sir/Madam, We were informed that your credit card is used by another person or stolen. It could happen if you have been shopping on-line, and someone got your "Billing information" including your credit card number. To avoid and prevent any further fraud and billing mistakes and to refund your credit card, it is strongly recommended to proceed filling in the secure form on our site and applying for our Zero Liability program. Program is free and it will help us to confirm the fact of fraud and investigate this accident as soon as possible. Sincerely yours, Visa Support Assistant, Alwin Desagun.

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The Internet for n00bs
by Ewen McNeill 02 Feb '04

02 Feb '04

One of the things discussed at the (excellent, thanks everyone) NZNOG 2004 conference was that the Internet sucks, and that a large portion of this suckage is due to ignorant n00bs who do the wrong thing, get 0wned, etc. It was suggested that the "only" fix to this problem was to kill the end to end Internet, making the "Internet" a core exchange network (a la telco style), and allowing users only access to a local proxy at their ISP for a very limited set of services. Aside from my objection that this won't help much except in the short term (plenty of protocols already tunnel around such firewall limitations -- eg, look at everything that's been tunneled through HTTP), this really sucks for the l33t who find it awfully restrictive. An alternative approach to that type of thing is possibly just to heavily firewall -- at the ISP end of the link -- connections to all "potential n00b" users (SMTP to ISP mail server, POP/IMAP/HTTP/HTTPS to whereever and a few other common things) by default. And then provide an "opt out" system that anyone with a clue can use to disable the default firewalling. I would suggest: telnet ihaveaclue.$ISP where you have to enter "My name is $NAME, and I have a clue" (with $NAME expanded, but otherwise literally). Possibly that setting could be sticky; possibly it would need to be done on each reconnection.[0] The remaining aspect is that anyone who claimed to have a clue in this manner and then lets something on their connection get 0wned or otherwise abuses the privilege, (a) loses the ability to unblock themselves, and (b) gets their name published on a list of shame. This could pretty much be implemented today by anyone with a firewall (or customer facing ACLs) which can be set on a per-customer basis. Various RAS boxes have this sort of facility already; at least one ISP I know of firewalls accounts that are over due so they can reach the accounting website and that's about it. The alternative seems to be that the clueful will just tunnel everything through whatever still works. Tunnelling through DNS requests is painful but doable; tunnelling through most other things is almost tolerably efficient by comparision. And I guess bandwidth is cheap enough now that we can cope with a 20-50% overhead due to tunnelling.[1] Ewen [0] Anyone who can't automate doing it on each reconnection doesn't have a clue. [1] Still, it'll make the ATM tax look cheap.

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RE: [nznog] The Internet for n00bs
by Regan Murphy 01 Feb '04

01 Feb '04

> From: Seton Wingfield [mailto:SWingfield(a)atl.co.nz] > Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2004 7:00 p.m. > > I recently read the "Changes to Functionality in Microsoft > Windows XP Service Pack 2" and in it, it states that the > Internet Connection Firewall will be turned on by default. > Changes like this and Microsoft's long term commitment to > security via their "Trustworthy Computing" initiative may > make the problems that you are trying to solve a thing of the past. > Unfotunately it will be a long time until all net people shift from Windows 95 et al and move to WinXP etc. Also with the growth of linux variants can we expect the same default security options to be set there as well (remember all the sendmail exploits and the redhat vunerabilities)? Beyond that there are a lot of people that like to run programs such as p2p file sharing applications and irc and ftp and these unfortunately don't work too well with misconfigured firewalls. The typical answer to "how do I get p2p app working?" is "oh, you're running XP? Then disable the default firewall and it will all work". i.e. n00bs will always unwittingly impact the internet through miseducation and ignorance -- Regan

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. This month Donald Neal is joined as list administrator by Simon Blake and Simon Lyall. The aim of the increased head count is to provide better coverage in terms of time, and to reduce the list's reliance on any individual. Meetings See http://www.nznog.org/ for details of the conference which has just finished. Another fairly similar gathering seems likely to be held early next year. Also see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/about.html if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Internet Exchanges See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. See http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the Wellington Internet Exchange. And possibly http://www.citylink.co.nz/information/news/nr1068413489.html . About This Mailing List This list has around six hundred addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by employees of Alcatel NZ Ltd, Citylink and ihug Ltd. None of these organisations, nor any administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrators remain happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. One way to search the archive is to use google and prefix your search with site:list.waikato.ac.nz . Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] Conference Videocast
by mark.harris＠ssc.govt.nz 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

Richard Naylor wrote: > > Yes - all on DVD, but missed the start of Geoffs talk - > couldn't climb over > Si to get to DVD-R. Must get bigger van..... or a smaller Si ... ;-) mark

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Re: [nznog] The Internet for n00bs
by Ewen McNeill 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

In message <1075610074.2007.305.camel(a)localhost>, Steve Withers writes: >On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 15:11, Anaru Hartley wrote: >> I kind of sense a "one track mind" approach to the >> issue at hand. There are plenty of alternatives, >> personally I don't think tightning the rope is going >> to help improve the Internet. The point was that some people (Dean cited his Nana as an example) really don't want to deal with all the complexity of keeping their system patched against the security hole du jour -- they just want an appliance that will let them talk to their grandchildren and maybe check a few details on their latest group's meetings. A 21st century telephone. The suggestion was then made (in a later talk) that the "only" solution to the mass of people who just wanted an applicance and were unwilling/unable to deal with the "dangerous" place that is the modern Internet, was an Internet-Lite -- the Internet for n00bs. The major part of its architecture was, essentially, a bunch of application proxies at the ISP with everything else firewalled off. The aim of this was to (dramatically) reduce the pool of reachable, unpatched, systems on the 'net. The current batch of worms to install open relays would be immunised against pretty much immediately for two reasons (couldn't reach open relays once established, couldn't reach remote hosts to infect them). >True. All you need is one ISP who offers "real" Internet....and everyone >would flock there. I know I would, if that was the choice. Yes, but you're l33t Steve. You'd flock there. Most people here would flock there. Much as I don't want to see "the Internet" become a dumbed down IntaWeb clone, I recognise that's just me ("when I want to be wrapped in cotton wool, I know where to find it"). There's a whole bunch of people, probably the majority by an order of magnitude, for whom the Internet, Large As Life, is scary, and intruding on their ability to just do the things they want to (eg, their machine keeps getting infected). So The Internet for n00bs will probably happen eventually. I just hope it isn't done in such a way that the only way to join the Real Internet (tm) is to qualify for your own ASN or by building tunnels through increasingly inappropriate application level protocols. A "walled garden" (to use the Citylink description of CafeNet) would be more appropriate -- with a way out for those that can figure out the gate, and a rule that they don't get to complain (or get out again) if they get run over by the traffic outside. Ewen

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RE: [nznog] The Internet for n00bs
by Seton Wingfield 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

In my experience its never the people that find an exploit that end up causing the mayhem. If the flow of information from the exploit finders to the script kiddies could be stopped so would the majority of worms etc. I know this is old thinking but it seems like a easier option than firewalling off the Internet. I recently read the "Changes to Functionality in Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2" and in it, it states that the Internet Connection Firewall will be turned on by default. Changes like this and Microsoft's long term commitment to security via their "Trustworthy Computing" initiative may make the problems that you are trying to solve a thing of the past. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7bd948d7-b791-40b6… http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/innovation/twc/twc_whitepaper.asp The documents are MS Word format. -----Original Message----- From: Ewen McNeill [mailto:ewen(a)naos.co.nz] Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2004 11:17 a.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [nznog] The Internet for n00bs One of the things discussed at the (excellent, thanks everyone) NZNOG 2004 conference was that the Internet sucks, and that a large portion of this suckage is due to ignorant n00bs who do the wrong thing, get 0wned, etc. It was suggested that the "only" fix to this problem was to kill the end to end Internet, making the "Internet" a core exchange network (a la telco style), and allowing users only access to a local proxy at their ISP for a very limited set of services. Aside from my objection that this won't help much except in the short term (plenty of protocols already tunnel around such firewall limitations -- eg, look at everything that's been tunneled through HTTP), this really sucks for the l33t who find it awfully restrictive. An alternative approach to that type of thing is possibly just to heavily firewall -- at the ISP end of the link -- connections to all "potential n00b" users (SMTP to ISP mail server, POP/IMAP/HTTP/HTTPS to whereever and a few other common things) by default. And then provide an "opt out" system that anyone with a clue can use to disable the default firewalling. I would suggest: telnet ihaveaclue.$ISP where you have to enter "My name is $NAME, and I have a clue" (with $NAME expanded, but otherwise literally). Possibly that setting could be sticky; possibly it would need to be done on each reconnection.[0] The remaining aspect is that anyone who claimed to have a clue in this manner and then lets something on their connection get 0wned or otherwise abuses the privilege, (a) loses the ability to unblock themselves, and (b) gets their name published on a list of shame. This could pretty much be implemented today by anyone with a firewall (or customer facing ACLs) which can be set on a per-customer basis. Various RAS boxes have this sort of facility already; at least one ISP I know of firewalls accounts that are over due so they can reach the accounting website and that's about it. The alternative seems to be that the clueful will just tunnel everything through whatever still works. Tunnelling through DNS requests is painful but doable; tunnelling through most other things is almost tolerably efficient by comparision. And I guess bandwidth is cheap enough now that we can cope with a 20-50% overhead due to tunnelling.[1] Ewen [0] Anyone who can't automate doing it on each reconnection doesn't have a clue. [1] Still, it'll make the ATM tax look cheap. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Simon Lyall 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

I was having a look though the documents here: http://www.comcom.govt.nz/telecommunications/localloop.cfm I was a bit disappointed at the lack of Local Loop access but there seemed to be some positive talk about the Bitstream service. However the last three pages (Appendix 5) of the Final Report Appendices basically define this as a 128up/256down service with VOIP, video and similar functionality specifically excluded. In other words Telecom will only have to open up a minimal level ADSL service slightly faster than Jetstart (with a recommended provisioning cost of $185 ) . I also see nothing about removing the requirement for all home customers with DSL to also have a voice phone line so I presume it's still in there which means that their be no option to replace home customer's main phone line with a VOIP system (like some people are doing in the US) or for people just to use their cellphones. Which overall looks like at least another couple of years of "more of the same" with respect to high speed Internet for most people. Or have I misinterpreted the recommendations? -- Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

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For Spamassassin users fed up with AV notifications
by Juha Saarinen 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

Apropos the recent storm of AV notifications caused by MyDoom... found this gem on the Exim-users list: http://www.timj.co.uk/linux/bogus-virus-warnings.cf Put it in e.g. /etc/mail/spamassassin, restart SA, and it loads the file. -- Juha

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RE: [nznog] Conference Videocast
by Chris Hellberg 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

I'm another watcher and thumbs up for the video quality! Lots of the interlude music seems to be in minor keys. It's almost as if it's funeral music to play for the foresaken networks :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] Credit card fraudsters......
by Stephen Andrew 29 Jan '04

29 Jan '04

On Friday, 30 January 2004 9:42 AM, Steve Withers <mailto:swithers(a)mmp.org.nz> wrote: > In my e-mail this morning, with a clickable button to take me to their > 'secure site': > > From: security(a)visa-security.com > > Dear Sir/Madam, [snip] A similar thing had an "honourable" mention in Bruce Schneier's CryptoGram this month. Nice pice of social engineering - the victim already believes there are unauthorised transactions on their card which are being dealt with by Visa and so doesn't chase them up when they appear on their statement. http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0401.html#10 -- Andrew This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way.

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Conference Videocast
by Tony McGregor 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

The good folks at CityLink will be multicasting the talks from the conference tomorrow and Friday. So if you can't be here, check out www.r2.co.nz. There are pictures from today's sessions on the conference page. www.nznog.org. Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095(w) +64 7 825 5047(h) Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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