- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

CertPatrol - watch your certs
by Dan Langille 08 Jan '04

08 Jan '04

All this talk of SSL certificates and with the recent expired Verisign certificate reminded me of this project I worked on. CertPatrol http://www.certpatrol.com/ keeps monitors your SSL certificates. A group of us created this free service over a year ago but haven't publicized it. Until now... cheers -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/

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Net4u troublemaking and fraud Watch out!
by Michael Hallager 08 Jan '04

08 Jan '04

Watch out people. Sahil and Net4U are now manufacturing totally bogus claims (Including claiming the existance of an invoice, which I have not seen, though if it exists it amounts to fraud) against myself and possibly other former clients. He sent me three B/S claims yesterday, which I refuted all of them so he kept changing his story every time. This guy will stop at nothing to get money in any way possible including lies and threats of Baycorp or the police (I am still waiting for him to lay any allegation) for a claimed but non-existant debt. // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Something interesting
by Barry Murphy 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

I know this was spoken about and many people wondered how it could be done to share multiple internet connections for schools. I just found this to be interesting reading so here's the link... http://www.newswireless.net/articles/030120-locust.html "The impressive part is the ability to combine several broadband feeds. This is an option (it doesn't happen out of the box, but it's built in) - if there are 20 houses in the Mesh, but only four of them have broadband, all users can share all of those lines. It does add to network traffic; there's an estimated 10% increase in wireless load, says Lander. " Barry

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survey on BGP damping
by Beichuan Zhang 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

Hi, We are conducting a survey of BGP damping deployment and would greatly appreciate if you could take a few minutes to answer the following questions. There are a number of interesting results and various recommendations for damping settings. However, we have found only limited information on who does(does not) deploy damping and what parameter settings are selected in practice. If you are willing to participate, please send replies directly to us. We will collect the results (removing any private information regarding specific sites) and post the results to the list. Thanks! --- beichuan (1) Does your AS have BGP route flap damping turned on? * Yes * No (please skip to comments) (2) What damping parameters do you use? * Cisco Default * Juniper Default * RIPE recommendation * Customized (3) On which links do you enable damping? * To customers only * To providers * To peers * All the above (4) Comments Please tell us more such as: What kind of network are you managing (any specific names will be removed in the published study)? Why (why not) do you enable damping? If you enable damping, why did you choose your current parameters? Has your site seen specific problems that were prevented by damping (or caused by damping)? We welcome any other comments you feel are relevant. Thanks!

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Expired Verisign intermediate root certificate
by Matthew Poole 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

Just a warning to people who run servers with SSL certificates from Verisign, one of their intermediate root certificates expired at midnight (GMT) today. They appear to have signed SSL certs with a root which expires before the SSL cert does, causing all sorts of wonderful problems. http://www.verisign.com.au/support/carenewal/ has the new intermediate root, for people who have not yet installed it.

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FW: [members-discuss] Announcement of IPv6 Test-bed [ InternetNZ and CityLink] and the NZNOG Big Geek Program 04 28-30 Jan 2004
by Michael Sutton 07 Jan '04

07 Jan '04

FYI - see you all there :) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces(a)internetnz.net.nz [mailto:members-discuss-bounces(a)internetnz.net.nz] On Behalf Of Michael Sutton Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 02:09 To: InternetNZ Members Discussion List Subject: [members-discuss] Announcement of IPv6 Test-bed [ InternetNZ and CityLink] and the NZNOG Big Geek Program 04 28-30 Jan 2004 Dear Members We are proud to let you know of our joint initiative with CityLink which will see InternetNZ provide funding necessary to enable a public access IPv6/IPv4 local Gateway and a one megabit low latency link for six months between APE6 and WIX6 for non commercial testing commencing in January 2004. Please read details at: http://www.internetnz.net.nz/communications/mr040105ipv6-test-bed.htm <http://www.internetnz.net.nz/communications/mr040105ipv6-test-bed.htm> CityLink will present this in operation at the NZNOG Big Geek Program 04, hosted by Waikato University. (28-30th) 3 days ~$120 Registration (discount until 9th January) http://www.nznog.org <http://www.nznog.org> . InternetNZ is a major sponsor of this conference and I shall attend presenting the technical case for Multicast enabling the New Zealand network as well as hosting a BoF on this Topic and network InterOperability initiatives which InternetNZ has been fostering over the past 6 months. At our last Council meeting it was agreed that we would also provide upto $2,500 of educational materials for this Conference. InternetNZ has ordered and is contributing technical books on how to enable Inter Domain Multicast services using Cisco and Juniper equipment. These will be distributed to those attending the Multicast BoF. If you can attend or help your engineers get some time to join us there we would really enjoy getting together and besides Roger DeSalis is sponsoring the Bar :) Peter Macaulay will also be there with other INZ councillors as he claims lineage as a proto-geek of the '60s :) Best regards Michael Sutton Councillor 2003-2004 Technical Committee Member. +64 21 305500

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Carpool to BGP aka NZNOG04
by Lin Nah 06 Jan '04

06 Jan '04

Hi all Just a short note to let you know that if you have a seat in your car for a passenger (or more) or if you wish to find a ride to Hamilton for the meet, email carpool(a)nznog.org. I'll attempt to pair up those who need a ride with those who can give it. For those needing rides I need to know where you are. For those offering rides, I need to know where you are driving from and when you hope to get to Hamilton (ie whether you intend to be there for the tutorials on Wed or for Thurs&Fri only) Don't leave it too late. regards lin

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(slightly OT) APEC TEL ... next meeting, Hong Kong 21-26 March
by Frank March 06 Jan '04

06 Jan '04

Folks: It is about a year since I last posted on the TEL ... apologies to those whose sense of deja vu is overwhelming. The APEC Telecommunications and Information Working Group (TEL) is highly productive and has a very strong private sector presence. It is very active in online & cyber security, privacy & authentication, telecommunications policy and regulation, broadband & NGI, and in promoting international co-operative projects in areas such as electronic commerce, research and education and many other areas relevant to telecommunications and the use and promotion of ICT generally in the APEC region. The TEL meets twice yearly in different APEC economies and attracts 200 to 300 delegates drawn from most of the APEC economies of whom up to half are from non-government and private organisations. Over the past several years, the New Zealand delegation to the TEL meetings has included a number of private sector members as well as officials from government agencies. Although TEL meetings are not suited to overt marketing activities, private sector delegates have found meetings useful for making contacts and networking opportunities. There is no registration fee for APEC TEL meetings, and the costs of at least some meals are met by sponsors, however delegates are expected to meet their own travel and accommodation costs. The next meeting (TEL29) will be in Hong Kong, 21-26 March 2004. Registrations are required by 21 February. Information about TEL29 may be found at http://www.apectel29.gov.hk (the website will be updated regularly) and further information and papers from previous meetings at http://www.apectel.org Please contact me if you are interested in joining the New Zealand delegation (you must be a member of an official delegation to attend) or if you would like any further information. And please pass this information on to anyone else you think might be interested. -- Frank March Telephone (+64 4) 474 2908 Senior Specialist Advisor Fax (+64 4) 474 2659 Information Technology Policy Group Mobile: (+64) 21 042 9205 Ministry of Economic Development, Wellington, New Zealand http://www.govt.nz - connecting you to New Zealand central & local government services Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer.

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NZNOG '04 Deadlines
by Tony McGregor 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

Conference plans are proceeding really well and it looks like we're going to have a great conference. We've got a good bunch of speakers on interesting topics including details of a major IPv6 announcement that you'll hear about in the next little while, wireless IP, VoIP, H.323 Video, NZ NGI, BGP, CityLink plans and a heap more. There'll be speakers from many of NZ's major ISPs and other major industry players and from vendors including Cisco and Juniper. We've added a day of workshops and tutorials to the program which will include APNIC's Internet Resource Management Essentials training course and Ian Hastie (Link Information Technology Limited) on Wireless Technology. We've received very generous sponsorship, including from our primary sponsors CityLink and major sponsor InternetNZ. Also from FX networks, the University and the WAND group. This has kept the cost to just $120 for all three days (including lunches, tea and coffee, tee shirt, coffee mug, sponsored bar, etc.) **NOTE*** YOU MUST REGISTER THIS WEEK to get the discounted registration fee or if you require on campus accommodation. If you know of people who might benefit from the conference but who don't regularly read NZNOG (e.g. major customers, operators of national private networks etc) we would be grateful if you would make them aware of the conference. Full details and registration are at: http://www.nznog.org/ Looking forward to seeing you there. Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095(w) +64 7 825 5047(h) Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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how much traffic does a Kiwi use?
by Jonathan Brewer 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

Hi there NZNOG folks, I ask this question with my academic hat* on, as a student in the Victoria MMIM program: How much Internet traffic does the average New Zealander generate/consume per month? I've found a plethora of statistics on how many dialup users are out there, how many ISDN and ADSL lines there, and even how many minutes Kiwis have spent on their dialup connections, (1550 million minutes/month[1]) but nothing on traffic. I have even had a look at a few non-public studies. I haven't, however, found anything about traffic. Results will go in a paper for MMIM 522 comparing e-Infrastructure of Ireland and New Zealand. TIA, and Cheers, Jonathan Brewer * for those of you TNC folks who know me with my 802.16 hat on [1] Howell, Bronwyn & Obren, Mark (2003) Telecommunications Usage in New Zealand: 1993-2003. Wellington: New Zealand Institute for the Study of Competition and Regulation

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W3C head Berners-Lee to be knighted
by Barry Murphy 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

Slightly off topic, but interesting... W3C head Berners-Lee to be knighted http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/12/31/HNblkinght_1.html By Grant Gross, IDG News Service December 31, 2003 World Wide Web founder to be given second highest rank of order Tim Berners-Lee, credited with inventing the World Wide Web and director of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), will be named a Knight Commander, Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth of the U.K., the W3C announced Wednesday. The rank of Knight Commander is the second highest rank of the Order of the British Empire. Berners-Lee, 48, a U.K. citizen who lives in the U.S., is being knighted in recognition of his "services to the global development of the Internet" through the invention of the World Wide Web. "This is an honor which applies to the whole Web development community, and to the inventors and developers of the Internet, whose work made the Web possible, " Berners-Lee said in a statement. "I accept this as an endorsement of the spirit of the Web; of building it in a decentralized way; of making best efforts to keep it open and fair; and of ensuring its fundamental technologies are available to all for broad use and innovation, and without having to pay licensing fees." The London-born Berners-Lee graduated from Oxford University in 1976. As a student there, he built his first computer using a soldering iron, an old television and other parts. In 1980, while Berners-Lee wrote the first program for storing information using the kind of random associations the brain makes. At the time, he worked as a consultant software engineer at CERN, often called the European Particle Physics Laboratory in Geneva. The Enquire program -- which was never published -- formed the conceptual basis for the future development of the Web, according to the W3C. While at CERN in 1989, he proposed a global hypertext project, designed to allow people to work together by combining their knowledge in a Web of hypertext documents. That hypertext project would become known as the World Wide Web. The program, WorldWideWeb, was first made available within CERN in December 1990, and all of Berners-Lee's code was made available on the Internet in the summer of 1991, according to information from the W3C. In 1994, Berners-Lee founded the World Wide Web Consortium, where he presently serves as director. The W3C coordinates Web development worldwide, and its goal is to lead the Web to its full potential, ensuring its stability through rapid evolution and revolutionary transformations of its usage. Berners-Lee joins several other U.K. citizens to receive honors from the Queen, including rock guitarist Eric Clapton, actor Pete Postlethwaite and author Philip Pullman.

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Fwd: 2004 network predictions.
by Richard Naylor 01 Jan '04

01 Jan '04

>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 06:24:46 -0500 (EST) >From: batz <batsy(a)vapour.net> >To: nanog(a)merit.edu >Subject: 2004 network predictions. > >Here are some dire predictions for 2004. > >While it would be easy to say that the world will end, >I think these are all things that reasonably could happen, >and we could act pre-emptively to mitigate their effects. > > >- Virus infections of handhelds and mobile phones > causing widespread problems for cell networks > similar to worms that flood out IP networks. > - Bonus points for a bluetooth infection vector. > - Extra bonus points if it floods newly minted > VoIP telecom networks. Grim. > >- E-mail whitelist technology gains mainstream acceptance > as spam hits critical mass. Spam recieved by astronauts > in space. > >- ISP's search for new business models realizing that wireless > providers are making a mint charging by the kilobyte, and more > users just surf at work. > >- Wireless network "terrorism" or "porn" incident galvanizes > legislators to force hotspot operators to get ID or credit > card numbers from customers. > >- Really Bad instant-messenger worm that we can't do anything > about because it doesn't use consistant tcp/udp ports. > >- ISP's use managed anti-virus/security to sell new managed services > to users. Birth of the fully provider managed home PC? > >- Affinity networks/six-degrees site privacy boondoggle. > One is caught selling access data to airlines or > transport security or something. Everyone feels sick > as Friendster acquired by Equifax? > >- Private crypted networks used for P2P. Call them blacknets, > darknets, or in true arrr-pirate fashion, booty-nets. > yo-ho-ho. > >- Successful virtual worm network forged after a > worm spreads its second phase and installs an onion > routed virtual network. Maybe a new P2P network? > >- Linux kernel made illegal, somewhere, for a minute. > Presidential candidate may admit to using it once, > but didn't look at the source. RIAA/MPAA/DMCA a > surprise US election issue. > >- LEA access to ISP's formalized, spearheaded by > Cisco and its "lawful interception" capability. > Court gag order placed on participating ISP's, > disgruntled admin leaks details to Cryptome or > Phrack. > >- More end-to-end control connections that > identify/validate/authenticate end users. Eg, > VPN's, SSL, PPP. An assault on anonymity and > stateless protocols, or technologies that interrupt > the statefulness of the connection between user and > their primary providers. (eg, WiFi, P2P, UDP, VoIP). > >- P2P on the road to obselescence caused by higher metred > bandwidth charges to home cable users in line with > wireless costs. While there is a glut of bandwidth > capacity available for transit, this is not the case > for end-user consumption. Cable providers will lower > bandwidth caps under the auspices of combatting piracy, > enabling them to actually make money. > > >Given these sort of predictions, I don't mind >being wrong. Have a good year, I'll post again >then. ;) > > >-- >batz

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 01 Jan '04

01 Jan '04

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. A face-to-face gathering is to take place in Hamilton on January 28 to 30, hosted by the WAND group. That's THIS MONTH. See http://www.nznog.org/ for details. Register NOW if you're planning to attend. Also see http://thursdaynightcurry.com/about.html if you live in or near Wellington or Auckland. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators rather than by most customers. Internet Exchanges See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. See http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the Wellington Internet Exchange. And possibly http://www.citylink.co.nz/information/news/nr1068413489.html . About This Mailing List This list has around six hundred addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Alcatel NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. One way to search the archive is to use google and prefix your search with site:list.waikato.ac.nz . Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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International Capacity... some more questions :)
by Don Gould - BVC 31 Dec '03

31 Dec '03

The other day someone mentioned that there was a host of other operators with wave legnths on the SXC and others. Can anyone tell me more about who they are? Can you also tell me any that deliver to a pop in Christchurch? Feel free to contact me off list... Cheers DiG -- Don Gould The technology exists to give every home 10mbits per second for $10 per month! Ask not what your telephone company should do for you... ...but what you can do for your broadband community!

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International connectivity
by Matthew Poole 29 Dec '03

29 Dec '03

At risk of pulling this list vaguely back on-topic, I'm curious about which ISPs in NZ carry their own international link(s) - That is, it's them at the NZ end and whoever they peer with at the other end, rather than going through another ISP or NSP within NZ. We all know about TelstraClear, Telecom/GG and the Hug, but are there any others?

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Link Networks / Networkstuff
by Michael Hallager 29 Dec '03

29 Dec '03

We are back online now. I expect that the websites and email will be available by tomorrow morning, as we have to renumber. // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Re: Re: [nznog] (no subject)
by Anaru Hartley 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

> From: Anaru Hartley <tycoon275(a)yahoo.co.nz> > Date: 2003/12/30 Tue AM 01:42:35 GMT+13:00 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] (no subject) > > 18/F That is not me. > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog >

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Re: [nznog] (no subject)
by Anaru Hartley 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

18/F

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(no subject)
by Anaru Hartley 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.

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Surprised it was as little as 50c
by Juha Saarinen 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2770024a13,00.html

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NZNOG-04 crew contact
by Richard Naylor 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

Anyone from the NZNOG-04 conference drew around at the moment ? please contact me off list tia - rich

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Broadband for all
by Peter Macaulay 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

The bad LLU decision is doing some good. We moving from talk to action. On balance I don't think bundled or unbundled LL will make a lot of difference. Once we get past the initial dip in momentum of the BB uptake caused by the poorly structured Telecom ADSL marketing, the alternatives will create the steep upcurve we need to ensure the everyone has access to real broadband. One of the things InternetNZ pays me to do is to find and support ways make this happen. BB is too important to leave to telcos, governments, committees, NGOs, and local authorities. The more more models being developed, the better the chance of getting one or more right. Here are some points I would like you to consider, and where appropriate act. 1) Support all local BB initiatives. I am impressed with the stuff list contributors are doing. Real impact! 2) Encourage your local council to act. For example Manakau City http://www.manukau.govt.nz/smartmanukau.htm have taken a simple step by ensuring that conduit is in place for all new subdivisions. I will meet with Banksy (Auckland City) early in the new year. 3) Put pressure on the telcos to change their thinking. If they don't they won't have much to worry about in five years apart from managing a sunset business. 4) Support legislative improvements (not more legislation!) to support BB e.g.. create opportunities for glass to go in every time a hole is dug. Most ministers are supportive, but don't see the vision. 5) Encourage the telcos to keep supporting the interop facilitation headed by Judy Speight. This initiative has the potential to pre-empt many of the issues surrounding the hooking up of local initiatives. The level of Telco support has been surprising and seems genuine. 6) The lack of support of TUANZ is a concern http://www.tuanz.org.nz/url.cfm?pg=23 I have provided a list of issues to Ernie Newman. Members should ask TUANZ why they believe there are no interop issues that the telcos won't resolve 6) Don't worry whether people want BB. Not enough spenders wants innovative thinking until it is no longer innovative. The apps to make BB everything we envision will not appear until enough of the spenders have it. Who would have guessed the uptake of texting? 7) Talk to marketing people about this. They need to learn about what we will deliver to allow them to build the markets for the new stuff. 8) Talk to everyone about the shift away from telco-think to net-think. toll rates will no longer be the way to make a profit. 9) Don't be concerned over traffic models or uses for BB. Nobody knows where it is going. It is still interesting to think about it though. 10) Make outrageous press statements. 11) Support the NGI team as they work to create the new Academic & Research BB environment. 12 Secretly develop your new killer app. 13) Give me things to do. Feel free to contact me directly. Do we need a new list for this topic? -- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Richard Naylor 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

At 05:30 p.m. 27/12/2003 +1300, Steve Withers wrote: >On Sat, 2003-12-27 at 10:00, Richard Naylor wrote: > > > Personally I agree with him. NZ has had the *best* deregulated environment > > for the past 12 years and has largely squandered that advantage. > >It was never going to work - which was obvious from the outset. :-) > >So deregulation failed to deliver what was promised for it. It failed because people failed to understand it. They still wait for someone else to do it for them and complain about what Telecom do or don't do. Why not do it yourself. There were absolutely no barriers to doing just that, just laziness and ignorance. TUANZ just bleated on about number portability and interconnect and failed to see what else was on offer. They've finally woken up to broadband - about 6 years too late. >Is that really news to anyone? The same thing has happened almost >everywhere there was a dominant player effectively controlling the >market. I would disagree Steve. The dominant player is also bogged down with entrenched thinking and a huge investment in equipment thats past its use by date. Hence the earlier debate about architecture et al. So you just compete by being massively better. Its not hard when cheap gig switches are under $300 >There was - in real terms - no opportunity to be squandered. The >cost/price curves never met for competitors - because Telecom was gifted >an infrastructure that cost far more to build than what they paid for >it. The competitors tried playing on the same playing field. At a time when technology is rampantly changing, the trick is to make your own playing field using the new stuff. rich

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RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Richard Naylor 28 Dec '03

28 Dec '03

At 11:08 a.m. 29/12/2003 +1300, Tony Wicks wrote: >I hate to be a stick in the mud, but once you have your Auckland to >Wellington fiber, you will then need a second one to back it up for the >times that someone dig's it up while putting in a new drain. And then >getting across the cook straight etc etc. Couldn't agree more Tony. I just wanted to show how "cheap" it was, but also that there is a market for it. I was going to say "if only someone had the time" but Roger did and has (almost) done it. I also think we need to add to this discussion that its easy to talk about building a network, but running one needs a certain experience that isn't easy to get hold of. There's a huge difference between running a few routers/wireless nodes and a network. We struggle with this at CityLink. A utility network just thinks differently and works differently and does things differently. Just because you can use a handycam, it doesn't mean you can run a TV station. Equally, just because you have a few routers, servers and wireless link, doesn't mean you can run a network. I learned a HUGE amount and have HUGE respect for the guys I worked for in the power industry for 14 years. I hope I use that learning well. Yes DO build networks, but look at how the others OPERATE. rich Tony is so right about the cable getting cut. You have to be aware it IS going to happen. We once had teh same substation catch fire twice on ONE week end (we could change the whole sub with a crane - kerbside kiosk type). Equally just after spending 3 night shifting our first CityLink node (about 5-600 fiber ccts) a major cable got cut. You have to have spares for multiple hits, have the resources (people) and proceedures so that things get done even when you're a zombie. I worked 120 hours that week on 9 hrs sleep - 2 of which were in my bed. The cut was on june 13, 2003 - a friday.

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Fwd: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

I can supply a high speed reliable wireless connection to any of six local schools, at a speed that exceeds "broadband" at a price far cheaper and a level of service far better, then any government scheme can. Whether I wish to put up with teachers and BOT's left wing stance that I owe it to them... for free (Almost)... is another matter. > I also think that if the telecoms providers and ISPs of NZ can't build > and operate a network for schools / police / fire service / whatever > that meets their requirements, then the government itself should build > such a network. > > I say this becasue today we spend billions on stuffing Telecom NZ's and > TelstraClear's pockets.....and the profit alone on that service would > build a kick-ass national network that would meet the infrastructural > aims and goals I have in mind. > > We have seen so far in NZ that private network providers - mainly > Telecom, but they aren't alone - are likely more expensive in the medium > and long term - at the end of the day - than a publicly-funded, > cost-recovery network would be. > > As Richard naylor has said: Why not just do it yourself? > > Is that a question to individuals only? Or could the people of New > Zealand hear that quesiton and respond? > > I agree that deregulation presented opportunity.....but where is the > competition we were supposed to see? > > It isn't there....and Telecom NZ remains the most profitable telco in > the OECD - pound for inch....and mainly becasue they were gifted - by > Richard Prebble - a publicly funded and built infrastructure that no one > else today can afford to match. > > I'll be quiet now. -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624 ------------------------------------------------------- -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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