- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Fwd: DBMAIL: delivery failure
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

Is anyone else receiving the below message *every* time they post? Or is this just Craig continuing on his little tantrum? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: DBMAIL: delivery failure Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23 From: postmaster(a)concept.net.nz To: michael(a)vivid.net.nz This is the DBMAIL-SMTP program. I'm sorry to inform you that your message, addressed to will(a)concept.net.nz, could not be delivered due to the following error. *** E-mail address will(a)concept.net.nz is not known here. *** If you think this message is incorrect please contact postmaster(a)concept.net.nz. Header of your message follows... --- header of your message --- Received: (qmail 31143 invoked by uid 511); 28 Dec 2003 10:23:49 -0000 Received: from nznog-bounces+will=concept.net.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz by smtp.nz.conceptnetworks.net by uid 502 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (sophie: 3.04/2.17/3.74. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:0(130.217.66.62):SA:0(0.0/5.0):. Processed in 3.915547 secs); 28 Dec 2003 10:23:49 -0000 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 Received: from newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (130.217.66.62) by smtp.nz.conceptnetworks.net with SMTP; 28 Dec 2003 10:23:45 -0000 Received: from newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16BD5127D05; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23:08 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mailserv.waikato.ac.nz (mailserv.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.66.61]) by newman.its.waikato.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A253127CFA for <NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23:05 +1300 (NZDT) X-Envelope-From: michael(a)vivid.net.nz X-Envelope-To: <NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Received: from dbmail-mx3.orcon.co.nz (loadbalancer-VIP.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.2]) by mailserv.waikato.ac.nz (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBSAN4mu002510 for <NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:23:05 +1300 Received: from port-219-88-255-22.orcon.net.nz (port-219-88-255-22.orcon.net.nz [219.88.255.22]) by dbmail-mx3.orcon.co.nz (8.12.9/8.12.9/Debian-5) with ESMTP id hBSAJtBV006000; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:19:56 +1300 From: Michael Hallager <michael(a)vivid.net.nz> Organization: networkStuff ltd To: Robert McDonald <rob(a)nzpages.net> Subject: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:26:40 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: <20031228083857.00F7A82795(a)smtp-1.paradise.net.nz> <1072602335.18746.7.camel(a)tbird> <200312282246.02855.rob(a)nzpages.net> In-Reply-To: <200312282246.02855.rob(a)nzpages.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312282326.40081.michael(a)vivid.net.nz> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.38 Cc: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz X-BeenThere: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list Reply-To: michael(a)vivid.net.nz List-Id: New Zealand Network Operators Group <nznog.list.waikato.ac.nz> List-Unsubscribe: <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog>, <mailto:nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/pipermail/nznog> List-Post: <mailto:nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> List-Help: <mailto:nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog>, <mailto:nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz?subject=subscribe> --- end of header --- . ------------------------------------------------------- -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

> This may be true for you and your community, but where I live, where lots > of people can't get stable modem connections, and can't connect faster than > say 14.4K, there are people screaming for alternatives. We have lots of > wireless "home" customers for lots and lots of different reasons, and most > of them are not in the geek category. Our community is extremely low > density population pockets, and delivering wireless over extremely diverse > topography presents extreme challenges, and in many cases the up to $20K > installation costs are offputting to the customer. Problem: If you can't get better then 14.4k connections, how are you going to internet feed your wireless POP? Telecom does not install frame connections on poor copper due to QOS SLA's. That is where the 20k install cost comes from. (Which I guess you are well aware of). Though given all of the costs involved, do you actually make money supplying home users in low density population areas?

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RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Tristram Cheer 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

I'm yet to see a school in Wellington that has access to ADSL that isn't on it, I don't speak for all schools in NZ just the 90% I IT knowledge of their layout. Regards -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Dean [mailto:jon.dean(a)simplicity.net.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 11:12 p.m. To: Tristram Cheer Subject: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:38, Tristram Cheer wrote: > Most School are already on ADSL already, most in Wellington clock up A LOT > (Re: 5 figure's) of traffic so I doubt the amount of business gained would > counterbalance the loss of income from schools moving from ADSL to Wifi > Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know > > Tristram Most schools are not on DSL. Probably in excess of 90% are on dialup. Which has known monthly cost of ~$27.00 vs ???? on DSL. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/7qxve/+/JCBbkYgRAuzAAJ4w2KD1n5zv09wLD88N50IeBg9bhgCeNWUQ xMBju1RjVgyOBJVmFpa/xNE= =KwtC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD!
by Tristram Cheer 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

4 - That's the lite version. The point it is that it's possible - its not the nicest of routing table I give you that but its possible Regards Tristram -----Original Message----- From: Tony Wicks [mailto:nzog(a)road.gen.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:52 p.m. To: Tristram Cheer Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! 4 is not quite hundreds. -----Original Message----- From: Tristram Cheer [mailto:james.edward(a)paradise.net.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:49 p.m. To: nzog(a)road.gen.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! www.fatpipeinc.com It is possible - Novell Small Business Suite 6 Include's FatPipe Internet which allows for 4 connections to be combined as one, with load balancing Regards Tristram -----Original Message----- From: Tony Wicks [mailto:nzog(a)road.gen.nz] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:43 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! ah, guys, I hate to point out the blaringly obvious, but you can't just get 100x128k (or more) connections and stick them together and think you have 12 meg of real bandwidth. It just doesn't work that way, there is no device that load balances 100 (or more !) http (or whatever) connections out lots of little pipes, and if there was it would be utterly chaotic and unworkable. Also remember, ISP's only survive because they can oversell the wholesale bandwith they buy. When you buy your 128k Jetstart connection, your are NOT buying 128k of Internet dedicated to you. If all the users used all of their bandwith ALL ISP's would go broke in a matter of months. -----Original Message----- From: Don Gould - BVC [mailto:dig(a)bvc.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 10:38 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! Hi Mark, On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:50:00 +1300 (NZDT), Mark Foster wrote > http://www.telecom.co.nz/chm/0,5123,100633-200550,00.html Thanks for the reference. > "If you are acquiring our Jetstream service for private, residential > purposes".... I had a quick look at those T&C and it didn't seem to indicate that there were any conditions placed on what I do with the service. As I understand it Telecom has been challanged on issues like this before with relation to their telephone service where small businesses are operating from home. > Where the service is being obtained for a purpose that doesnt fit > into the above the t&c for business customers comes into affect- > and jetstream starter is a residential product, can only be given > to residential customers. What is the difference between a business and residential service? In Australia most people seem to agree that it's the level of back up you can expect. If something breaks business customers get seen to first - are we so different here? > As much as Rob's comment looks like FUD there's an element of truth. 100% Agree. Most FUD always has an element of truth... let me give you an example... What do you think would happen if Telecom were to sue (as suggested by Robert) a New Zealand family for sharing part of their JetStart connection with their local school? Would the kids give up their $10 a month TXT and be content with using a little less txt on a Vodafone mobile and then tell all their friends to do the same? (I won't even go into the field day that Vodafone would have with that one!) Would the family cancel their ADSL account, Sky Accont and home phone line accounts then switch to Telstra cable, with their pay tv offering and then tell all their relations to do the same? Would mum and dad put preasure on their employers to move their data, mobile and voice services away from Telecom and to another provider? Could 800 Students ranging in age from 12 to 17 have a huge impact on a telephone company if said telephone company started to sue them... [1] > Schools are businesses and are charged business rates. Schools are in the business of teaching our children. Those children go on to become the future of New Zealand. Children are some of the biggest buyers of telecommunication products and services - least Telecom forget that. > Telecom also > cut them various deals to get online as economically as possible. Thanks for the info. Cheers DiG [1] Have a quick look at what's happening in the US where families have been sued by the music industry - suing a child does not make you look good in the press! -- Don Gould The technology exists to give every home 10mbits per second for $10 per month! Ask not what your telephone company should do for you... ...but what you can do for your broadband community! _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Ewen McNeill 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

In message <20031227043006.M87348(a)bvc.com.au>, "Don Gould - BVC" writes: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:16:11 +1300, Simon Blake wrote >> <shrug> Stand for your council, and make a difference - if you could >> get 1% of the cash spent on Auckland roads spent on Auckland fibre >> to the home, you'd be awash in high speed data. > >Now that makes sense! How often to councils have elections? Every three years; the next set is next year (2004) IIRC. And for those that think Simon is joking, he's not. Even if you can't get any budget set aside for installing fibre, just ensuring that council ducts are put in each time the road is opened up for some other reason (eg, Wellington has some large holes in the CBD at present for upgrading the storm water system -- it'd be a shame if they were closed up again without ducts having been put in alongside), and some sensible approach for operators to gain access to those council ducts would make a huge difference. For that matter coordinating the installation of wiring/ducts/etc into the roads, so that the costs of digging is shared, would help -- especially if it were made a condition of any road works permits. And you could probably sell it to the public on reduced inconvenience (eg, road only dug up once in 6 months, rather than three times) alone. Some councils (eg, Wellington) have special coordination teams to help movies be made around the town; it seems to me that a similar amount of money spent on a few clueful people to coordinate shared ducts, shared digging, etc, would achieve similarly large rewards for relatively little money. Ewen

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Re: right of reply.
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

I have plenty of email correspondence (And several phonecalls) from Craig after that meeting, including a quote, a request to buy a Cisco WIC1T from me, an offer of free Cisco IOS software (Which I didn't take) and yet another bad mouth gossip peice about a company he has since jumped in to bed with. Craig has not taken up my offer to discuss his claimed problem in private, as he does not have a problem, merely a well deserved reputation for bad mouthing people, including other list members, with LIES in private, and now public forums. I am fully aware that I am one of many people on the receiving end of Craigs lies and gossip. As for Wills post, he is an employee of ConceptNet, hardly "independant contribution". Given Craigs OWN reputation I find it astonishing that he "throws stones in a glass house". > Oh go away. > > If you want to discuss this privately, do so. It is not list material. > > I refused to answer your phonecalls after that meeting for a reason. > > THE END. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Sunday, 28 December 2003 12:40 a.m. > To: Craig Spiers > Cc: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: right of reply. > > You were very happy to quote me for an internet connection only 3 months > ago. > > The only thing that has happened since then is that I went to Net4U rather > then your company - ConceptNet. > > Excluding limited internet connectivity, my business is fine. It is not "my > fault" as you claim, as I did not cause Net4U to be disconnected by any > streach of your imagination. > As widely known, Telecom disconnected Net4U due to an alledged credit issue > and this had a downstream effect on me. > > I never post about you. I never initiate an email to you and I have only > ever had one meeting with you where you wanted (HAPPILY) to sell me > internet connectivity. > Despite this, you have a history of writing rude emails to me about nothing > at all, which is why you were blocked at my MX server recently. > > I suggest that you take your own advice in A, B, C and D and hope very much > that *your* business never has any "problems" at all, in case you end up > having to swallow some of *your* own medicine. > > I am disapointed at the demise of Net4U. In the short time I had a frame > relay link with them, Sahil gave me very good service and was responsive to > my requirements. > > *************************************************************************** >* ************ > If you wish to discuss anything in an appropriate manner, I suggest that > you write me an email directly, including outlining any issues that you > would like to sort out (I truely have no idea what they are) and we will > handle this in a businesslike manner. > *************************************************************************** >* ************ > > Otherwise I suggest that you discontinue this, rather then posting > unrelated untrue, immature and defamitory garbage to the NZNOG list. > > Michael Hallager > > > This I don't think is worth continuing.. > > > > A) your not worth arguing with. > > B) right now I have better things to do > > C) im sure your business has its own problems right now, and its your > > own fault really. > > D) get over it. > > E) before you ask, I refuse to help you. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:57 p.m. > > To: Craig Spiers > > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > Networksoutage > > > > The business deals that say that you should watch what you say in > > public, lest it come back to you. > > > > > Could possibly be.. What business deal are we talking about? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:51 p.m. > > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > > Networksoutage > > > > > > Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people > > > in private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > > > > > > > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > > > > what your like to deal with. > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > > > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > > > Networks outage > > > > > > > > Hello all. > > > > > > > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline > > > > and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > > > > > > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection > > > > supplied by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online > > > > until an alternative ISP can be found. > > > > > > > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, > > > > though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, > > > > because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this > > > > suddenly happening at the worst possible time. > > > > > > > > The requirements are: > > > > > > > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > > > > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > > > > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > > > > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > > > > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale > > data" > > > > > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > > > > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > > > > > > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I > > > > can easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually > > > > have responsibility for the network. > > > > > > > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit > > > > is owned by my company. > > > > > > > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone > > > > numbers. (After hours and weekend is fine). > > > > > > > > // Michael Hallager > > > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading > > > > supplier of high quality used networking equipment. > > > > > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > > -- > > > // Michael Hallager > > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > > equipment. > > > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > -- > > // Michael Hallager > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > equipment. > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > -- > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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right of reply.
by Michael Hallager 27 Dec '03

27 Dec '03

You were very happy to quote me for an internet connection only 3 months ago. The only thing that has happened since then is that I went to Net4U rather then your company - ConceptNet. Excluding limited internet connectivity, my business is fine. It is not "my fault" as you claim, as I did not cause Net4U to be disconnected by any streach of your imagination. As widely known, Telecom disconnected Net4U due to an alledged credit issue and this had a downstream effect on me. I never post about you. I never initiate an email to you and I have only ever had one meeting with you where you wanted (HAPPILY) to sell me internet connectivity. Despite this, you have a history of writing rude emails to me about nothing at all, which is why you were blocked at my MX server recently. I suggest that you take your own advice in A, B, C and D and hope very much that *your* business never has any "problems" at all, in case you end up having to swallow some of *your* own medicine. I am disapointed at the demise of Net4U. In the short time I had a frame relay link with them, Sahil gave me very good service and was responsive to my requirements. **************************************************************************************** If you wish to discuss anything in an appropriate manner, I suggest that you write me an email directly, including outlining any issues that you would like to sort out (I truely have no idea what they are) and we will handle this in a businesslike manner. **************************************************************************************** Otherwise I suggest that you discontinue this, rather then posting unrelated untrue, immature and defamitory garbage to the NZNOG list. Michael Hallager > This I don't think is worth continuing.. > > A) your not worth arguing with. > B) right now I have better things to do > C) im sure your business has its own problems right now, and its your own > fault really. > D) get over it. > E) before you ask, I refuse to help you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:57 p.m. > To: Craig Spiers > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > Networksoutage > > The business deals that say that you should watch what you say in public, > lest it come back to you. > > > Could possibly be.. What business deal are we talking about? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:51 p.m. > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > Networksoutage > > > > Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people in > > private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > > > > > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > > > what your like to deal with. > > > > > > :) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > > Networks outage > > > > > > Hello all. > > > > > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline > > > and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > > > > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied > > > by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an > > > alternative ISP can be found. > > > > > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, > > > though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, > > > because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this > > > suddenly happening at the worst possible time. > > > > > > The requirements are: > > > > > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > > > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > > > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > > > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > > > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > > > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > > > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > > > > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can > > > easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have > > > responsibility for the network. > > > > > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is > > > owned by my company. > > > > > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > > > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > > > > > // Michael Hallager > > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > > equipment. > > > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > -- > > // Michael Hallager > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > equipment. > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > -- > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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How much is enough ?
by Richard Naylor 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

I need some feedback, comments or whatever.... The average house has a 230V feed good for 60amps. It suits most people apart from a few with fixations on large swimming pools, huge sauna, large lathes, and growing pot. (power bills or substation loads were a dead give away) They got 3 phase power or jail. Almost no one ever got 11kV. (I say no one because we did supply several businesses that way) What is the data equivalent to a 230v 60 amp supply ? 10 100 100 Mbps ? 10mbps - too slow generally 1/2 duplex gets ugly as it gets max'd out. 100mbps - cheap, reliable, goes well. MPEG-2 fits in nicely (6mbps) so a house would get say 10 simultaneous TV channels eaisly (newer codecs like MPEG4/DiVX work for the same quality at 1.5mbps, so as faster cpus come into wider use bandwidth gets conserved). 100mbps allows very easy power+data on one tail. Routing/firewall is easy and cheap at wire speed. 1000mbps - becoming cheap. also reliable. might mean power on separate cable or less power available. Firewalls/routers expensive unless you home brew..... So - what is it ? TIA - rich

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Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage
by Michael Hallager 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people in private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering what > your like to deal with. > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks > outage > > Hello all. > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline and our > email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied by > Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an alternative > ISP can be found. > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, though I > would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, because I double > appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this suddenly happening at the > worst possible time. > > The requirements are: > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can easy go > to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have responsibility > for the network. > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is owned > by my company. > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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RE: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networksoutage
by Craig Spiers 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

This I don't think is worth continuing.. A) your not worth arguing with. B) right now I have better things to do C) im sure your business has its own problems right now, and its your own fault really. D) get over it. E) before you ask, I refuse to help you. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:57 p.m. To: Craig Spiers Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networksoutage The business deals that say that you should watch what you say in public, lest it come back to you. > Could possibly be.. What business deal are we talking about? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:51 p.m. > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > Networksoutage > > Could this be the SAME Craig Spiers that big time bad mouths people in > private and then promptly goes and does business deals with them? > > > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > > what your like to deal with. > > > > :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve > > Networks outage > > > > Hello all. > > > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline > > and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied > > by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an > > alternative ISP can be found. > > > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, > > though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, > > because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this > > suddenly happening at the worst possible time. > > > > The requirements are: > > > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can > > easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have > > responsibility for the network. > > > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is > > owned by my company. > > > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > > > // Michael Hallager > > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > > equipment. > > > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > -- > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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RE: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage
by Craig Spiers 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

Fair enough.. Thanks to all those who also commented! -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:40 p.m. To: Craig Spiers Subject: Re: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage and your opinion is clearly worth nothing. keep it to yourself craig. > I think it'd be a waste of time most people replying.. Considering > what your like to deal with. > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2003 11:27 p.m. > To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks > outage > > Hello all. > > As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline and > our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. > > As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied > by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an > alternative ISP can be found. > > I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, though > I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, because I > double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this suddenly > happening at the worst possible time. > > The requirements are: > > 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. > 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. > 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. > 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. > 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" > need not apply. I have more important things to do right > now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. > > If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can > easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have > responsibility for the network. > > The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is > owned by my company. > > I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. > (After hours and weekend is fine). > > // Michael Hallager > Director || Head geek || Making IT work. > > URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking > equipment. > > Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) > Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) > Mobile: 027 477-7624 > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Networkstuff Ltd / Link Networks / Comsolve Networks outage
by Michael Hallager 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

Hello all. As of the 24th of December, all of our websites have been offline and our email unavailable due to the Net4U issue. As we were running all of this via a frame relay connection supplied by Net4u, we are experiencing delays getting back online until an alternative ISP can be found. I believe that we are close to closing a deal with another ISP, though I would welcome offers from other Auckland based ISPs, because I double appreciate the need for a "plan B" after this suddenly happening at the worst possible time. The requirements are: 1. Telecom ATM at ISP end. 2. A minimum of a /26, though a /25 would be preferred. 3. Delegated reverse DNS for IP addresses. 4. 10Gb per month of international and flatrate national. 5. Dreamers wanting 20 cents per meg for claimed "wholesale data" need not apply. I have more important things to do right now then waste my time or yours on such nonsense. If you are a "virtual ISP", do not bother applying either, as I can easy go to your upline and deal direct with those who actually have responsibility for the network. The circuit type at my end is a frame relay and the tail circuit is owned by my company. I can ONLY be reached at: michael(a)vivid.net.nz or below phone numbers. (After hours and weekend is fine). // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624

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Interesting NBR story apropos "ADSL broadband" etc
by Juha Saarinen 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7877&cid=3&cname=Technology -- Juha

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Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Ewen McNeill 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

In message <3FECEE8B.1020209(a)saarinen.org>, Juha Saarinen writes: >I don't want to sound defeatist, but I think I'll be withered and dead >long before there's an affordable alternative to DSL outside the >Auckland CBD. I'm outside the Auckland CBD.[0] I've got a 2 Mbps down, 256 kbps up link to my house. That, plus my phone line, come to under $120/month total. To my mind that's affordable.[2] You might point out that this is also supplied by a telco, and that's true these days. But it wasn't originally set up by a telco. If you set your target as "DSL everywhere" then frankly I don't think all that much is going to be achieved. 1Mbps, 2Mbps, or even 10Mbps is so 1990s. I've been pleasantly surprised with just how successful DSL has been (internationally), given that it wasn't so many years ago we were told the POTS lines were good for 9600bps with a tail wind and not a bit more. But it's basically a dancing bear. Much as I think the Commerce Commission decision was probably the wrong decision for New Zealand[3], it's not really a major problem. All it means is that the Government isn't going to provide. Time for some Kiwi ingunity. Ewen [0] Approximately 800km outside the Auckland CBD, but that's outside the Auckland CBD.[1] [1] I'm not even sure why the Auckland CBD is the point of reference; there are other cities in New Zealand with better high speed connectivity. 100Mbps connections for less than what I know some organisations are paying for a single E1 across town in other cities. [2] For about $15 more per month I could get "pay TV" as well. Not that that'd be a whole lot of use, since I don't have a TV. [3] Cheap DSL everywhere would have been better than the current situation assuming it could be rolled out over a year or two -- as the Australia experience suggests.

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Re: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc.
by Jonny Martin 26 Dec '03

26 Dec '03

> It's almost 2004... we should be looking at tens of Mbps services, if > not faster. Yet you're arguing for use of Telecom's network... Cheers, Jonny.

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Re: [nznog] Net4U disconnected
by Michael Bordignon 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

Yes, from what I can tell, but would like to hear from Sahil about this > -- as I am sure would his customers and staff. nice -- http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3541048 Michael

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Re: Net4U Disconnected
by Lamar - LH Web Services 24 Dec '03

24 Dec '03

I think that he may intend opening up FastAccess Limited, as he recently brought them out (employee of Net4u) ?? He has also just started up PC2Day Ltd with someone else. It was only a matter of time before something happened. Anyone else know anything more ? -- Regards, Lamar Hargreaves, LH Web Services. 02.Net Internet Services. > I guess most of you know about Net4U getting disconnected already, but > for those who haven't heard, errm, Net4U has been disconnected. > Completely. > > Looks like neither staff nor customers were told about the > disconnection. Sahil hasn't returned my calls. Has anyone been told what > he intends to do next? > > -- > Juha

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Net4U disconnected
by Juha Saarinen 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

I guess most of you know about Net4U getting disconnected already, but for those who haven't heard, errm, Net4U has been disconnected. Completely. Looks like neither staff nor customers were told about the disconnection. Sahil hasn't returned my calls. Has anyone been told what he intends to do next? -- Juha

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NZNOG '04 Programme
by Jamie Curtis 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

So, after an unfortunate amount of delay, we finally have a tentitive programme for the NZNOG (aka Big Geek Program) '04 conference. Despite our best efforts we still don't have all speakers confirmed but the confirmed speakers, topics and abstracts are all available from: http://www.nznog.org/programme.php Other major developments are the announcement of our primary sponsor and the addition of an extra workshop day to the conference schedule. We are pleased to announce that CityLink will be the conference's primary sponsor. I'm sure we are all already aware of the great work CityLink do for the NZ network scene through the operation of WIX and APE, and we would like to extend our thanks to them for their support of this conference. Also on the sponsorship front, we would like to thank Roger De Salis and FX networks for their sponsorship of a bartab for the night of the conference dinner. I'm sure that there will be plenty of us there to thank him in person on the night ! There are also a number of other sponsors who we don't have space to thank individually here, but we appreciate the support and it all helps us make the conference more enjoyable and informative for all. The conference has now been extended by placing a workshop/tutorial day on Wednesday the 28th, before the conference proper on the 29th and 30th. We have currently two workshops scheduled during the day, a full day APNIC training session and a half day "Wireless workshop". These sessions are available for no extra cost to anyone who registers for the main conference. More details on these workshops as we receive them are available from: http://www.nznog.org/workshops.php Earlybird registrations close on Janurary the 9th, so for many people there is less than two working weeks before the conference fee increases. There is still accomodation available on campus as detailed on the website. There are only a limited number of rooms available with an ethernet Internet connection provided, so if you want one of those, get in quick. As always, the latest and most complete information can be found on the conference website: http://www.nznog.org Any queries or problems relating to any of this can be forwarded to: info(a)nznog.org Cheers Jamie (on behalf of the NZNOG organising committee) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamie Curtis email: jpc2(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz WAND Group Lab G1.03 phone +64 21 392 102 Computer Science Department, University of Waikato, New Zealand -----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Bandwidth in Auckland CBD
by Robert McDonald 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Hi, I know this isn't about technical stuff, and OT on this list: But here goes. Can anyone provide me with arround a 50Gb a month mainly domestic 1/10 int/nat ratio, with some kind of service level agreement. Preferably able to get it into citylink's new space in Auckland, (no point in getting rack space if i cant get bandwidth) Email me with your offers and solutions. Im after something rock steady Something we havn't had lately. Cheers Rob

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NZNOG '04 Programme
by Donald Neal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

So, after an unfortunate amount of delay, we finally have a tentative programme for the NZNOG (aka Big Geek Programme) '04 conference. Despite our best efforts we still don't have all speakers confirmed but the confirmed speakers, topics and abstracts are all available from: http://www.nznog.org/programme.php Other major developments are the announcement of our primary sponsor and the addition of an extra workshop day to the conference schedule. We are pleased to announce that CityLink will be the conference's primary sponsor. I'm sure we are all already aware of the great work CityLink do for the NZ network scene through the operation of WIX and APE, and we would like to extend our thanks to them for their support of this conference. Also on the sponsorship front, we would like to thank Roger De Salis and FX networks for their sponsorship of a bartab for the night of the conference dinner. I'm sure that there will be plenty of us there to thank him in person on the night ! There are also a number of other sponsors who we don't have space to thank individually here, but we appreciate the support and it all helps us make the conference more enjoyable and informative for all. The conference has now been extended by placing a workshop/tutorial day on Wednesday the 28th, before the conference proper on the 29th and 30th. We have currently two workshops scheduled during the day, a full day APNIC training session and a half day "Wireless workshop". These sessions are available for no extra cost to anyone who registers for the main conference. More details on these workshops as we receive them are available from: http://www.nznog.org/workshops.php Earlybird registrations close on Janurary the 9th, so for many people there is less than two working weeks before the conference fee increases. There is still accomodation available on campus as detailed on the website. There are only a limited number of rooms available with an ethernet Internet connection provided, so if you want one of those, get in quick. As always, the latest and most complete information can be found on the conference website: http://www.nznog.org Any queries or problems relating to any of this can be forwarded to: info(a)nznog.org Cheers Jamie (on behalf of the NZNOG organising committee) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamie Curtis email: jpc2(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz WAND Group Lab G1.03 phone +64 21 392 102 Computer Science Department, University of Waikato, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Telecom/Telstra Peering.
by Simon Lyall 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

At the bottom of a fairly unrelated story[1] I came across: " Meanwhile, Telecom and TelstraClear have signed a peering agreement which formalises arrangements under which the telcos move data traffic across one another's networks. Mr Goulter says the telcos' engineering teams have cooperated to allow peering for some time, but the new commercial agreement is "good for the future of the industry". " John Goulter is a Telecom Spokesman, I can't find anything about the deal on either company's media release sites however. [1] http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2757590a28,00.html -- Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

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ICONZ and TelstraClear have agreed to peer with one another
by Juha Saarinen 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

Got a terse media statement about the above... no actual details, but it looks like ICONZ has agreed to pay TelstraClear for domestic peering. Wonder what the consequences of that'll be? -- Juha

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RE: [nznog] APE, citylink, LOTR thingy
by Michael Bordignon 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

> Can someone post some links to these other streams ? Thanks. http://www.r2.co.nz/20031201/ I can see the 384kb/sec stream perfectly (mostly, apart from some buffering) now, webcams are pretty much ok now too. Michael

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Ihug Peering prefix-list update
by Leon Chang 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

Would all Ihug's domestic peers please update their prefix-list. The update-to-date prefix list can be found at: http://www.ihug.net/ihug-prefix-list Thanks. -- Leon Chang, CCNP, CCDP Senior Network Engineer The Internet Group Ltd. (IHUG), Auckland, New Zealand AS7657 PH: +64 9 359 2710 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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