- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Re: [nznog] Moderation etc.
by Ewen McNeill 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

In message <20030328020710.GH10265(a)citylink.co.nz>, Simon Blake writes: >On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 01:31:53PM +1200, Donald Neal said: >> The existing process for dealing with idiocy in varying degrees relies >> on the issuing of warnings. [....] One achieve that would be to move >> from having a single list administrator to having more than one. [...] > >Rather than moderate the content, why not just close list membership? >[delete all; add only "genuine NZ network operators"] I'm not sure if I officially get a say (I probably don't count technically count as a "genuine NZ network operator"), but I've been around the 'net a fair while now, and I'm opinionated, so I'm going to have one anyway. Some points in vague order: - I know of a bunch of people who are not technically "genuine NZ network operators" who benefit from reading the list (and more have posted in this thread) -- "up and coming" people, people loosely related to network operation who wish to stay "in touch" with what is going on (I'm probably most accurately in that category), etc. - For the most part those people get the benefit from reading, rather than posting to the list; "read only" access might well be sufficient 99% of the time for them. - Following a list (in "real time") by reading archives on the Interweb sucks. Screen scraping off the archives of a mailing list that are on a web page into email again to make it easier to follow is rather baroque. (But better than trying to follow discussions in real time on the Interweb; seems 20 years of UI discoveries got thrown out when the WWW got invented....) - People who "listen but don't talk" don't create much of a disturbance to the list operation. There aren't really (m)any secrets where public knowledge in "real time" would be an issue. - So if there needs to be moderation (note: I've not yet expressed a view), then it need only be on the posting side. "Read only" subscriptions could be left open to "those who can understand the content" or similar with no obvious downside. - Moderation of all postings is very disruptive to discussion particularly of things happening in real time (not to mention a high load on the moderator(s)) - Therefore it is probably desirable that as few postings as possible be moderated, without allowing the list to be flooded with large volumes of off topic stuff. - The set of people who post (on topic) often is relatively small, and relatively static, and could probably be maintained by hand by a small (eg, one person) team of moderators. - So if there is to be moderation (note: still not expressing a view) a potentially more workable solution is not to moderate who can join the list read-only; just to moderate who can post, and "hand moderate" the remaining posts. People posting a few good posts would be added to the "can post without additional moderation" list. Over a short period of time (especially with pre-seeding) those posting "on topic" messages would get put on the "can post without additional moderation" list, and that list would be fairly static. This should be relatively non-intrustrive, and relatively non-demanding on moderator time. This basically boils down to Simon (Blake)'s proposal, but with the restriction being on "posting access" only. The only real catch is "when good posters go bad", which could perhaps be dealt with in the same way as now (but with the implicit addition that their newly invented addresses would not immediately gain posting access). As to the original question: - I lean towards the point of view that this has basically been a one-shot deal and going closed-list/all-moderated/etc over it is probably an over-reaction. If people would stop feeding the trolls (even off list) then it'll probably all die a natural death. - As such I'm not particularly in favour of moderation. - With a little arm twisting I would be willing to be one of a team of moderators for the list (on a "if it needs to be done, and no one else is doing it" basis). I could recite a list of reasons why I'm qualified, but what it boils down to is that I've been about the NZ Internet for quite a while, seen my share of flame wars, etc, but don't work at any network operators so would hopefully be seen as neutral. (As I said above, I'd rather it wasn't moderated. But if it is, I'm willing to help out if necessary) Ewen

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Re: [nznog] Moderation etc.
by Jamie Baddeley 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

for what it's worth I agree with this. alternatively don't accept list members that have disposable email addresses (hotmail.com, email.com, msn.com, yahoo.co.nz etc etc), or a perverse fascination with bonzai buddy ;-) jamie >>> Simon Blake <simon(a)citylink.co.nz> 03/28 2:07 PM >>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 01:31:53PM +1200, Donald Neal said: > The existing process for dealing with idiocy in varying degrees relies > on the issuing of warnings. Faster issuing of warnings would result in > faster unsubscription of the determinedly anti-social. One way to > achieve that would be to move from having a single list administrator > to having more than one. Which raises the twin questions of whether > there'd be any volunteers for such a role, and "In whom do the people > trust?" Rather than moderate the content, why not just close list membership? Delete everybody off the list, add back on the people you know are genuine NZ network operators, and set the list up so that requests to join get sent to some group of moderators (or to the list). Then, vett new requests to join through the current members. Leave the web pages and archives public, so that the world can still read about what we're up to. Yes, it's cliquey, yes, it's elitist, but well, who cares. It's the Network Operators Group - we need to get it a back on topic PDQ, otherwise it'll cease to have any relevancy to the community it seeks to serve, and it'll get replaced with something else (that probably will have a closed membership). Cheers Si > - Donald Neal > List Administrator > > -- > Donald Neal | piano - a musical > Technical Specialist | shipping line. > Network Delivery | [ Graeme Garden ] > Telecom Corp. NZ Ltd | > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. > If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read > it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not > copy or use any part of this communication or disclose > anything about it. Thank you." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] Moderation etc.
by Zanetti David 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Simon Lyall [mailto:simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz] wrote: > I'm a great believer in leaving things alone. Currently we have a > large number of people on the list who aren't exactly "network > operators" . The vast majority of these people are no problem and > don't even post. Some of them will post sometimes when something > in their area comes up. I tend to support this view. I'm sure I don't qualify as a "network operator" by implying a definition from people's posts, but I don't believe I've been seeding the list with problems, and one or two trouble makers just need to be dealt with and we move on. Ironically I suspect more traffic will be created by debating this than was created by the orignal outburst or the last six months.. IMO. :) -- David Zanetti <david.zanetti(a)nzpost.co.nz> Desk: +64-4-496-4005 Mobile: +64-25-832-572 "Hope.. is a dangerous thing" This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way.

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Re: [nznog] Moderation etc.
by Michael Hallager 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:17, Juha Saarinen wrote: [SNIP] > I think you're probably asking a lot of Donald there. So he's to work out > a definition of what exactly constitutes a NZ network operator (ie. > network operators from other countries are banned) and then verify who > exactly fits the definition. How would he do that? I quite agree. There are many networks in NZ and many operators. Would op's of internet connected companies qualify or just op's of ISP's? Would VISP's qualify? Alot of them don't know very much about operating an Internet network, which is why they are "VISP's", and yet they should still be welcome here and be able to contribute. > Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not how NANOG operates. If they > can handle the occasional outburst of off-topic messages, and I'm sure > they get more of that on NANOG than on NZNOG, then the participants on > this list are probably able to do so as well. I say that this is a knee-jerk reaction to some of Sahil's friends causing trouble. I vote that we ignore them and continue on as per usual. > Closing NZNOG would set a bad example, IMO. There is enough "clubs" and "secret societies" in the world without closing NZNOG based on the whims and ideals of a few. The Internet is meant to be a tool of democracy and an open one at that. Lets keep it that way. How can we criticise [The NZ closed club of the Internet] if we go and do the same? Michael Hallager Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) LImited Networkstuff Limited -------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] Moderation etc.
by Ian Quinn 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

> Note that I'm basically discussing "rights to post" here. I'm not >From vague memory, nanog had two levels of subscription (read only, and read/post). Maybe the same thing could be done here. Then if they abuse it, shift people off the read/post list more aggressively than currently is the case. They don't lose the ability to hear what's going on. Regards / Ian -----Original Message----- From: Simon Blake [mailto:simon(a)citylink.co.nz] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 3:03 PM To: Michael Hallager Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Moderation etc. On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 02:32:40PM +1200, Michael Hallager said: > > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:17, Juha Saarinen wrote: > > [SNIP] > > > I think you're probably asking a lot of Donald there. So he's to work out > > a definition of what exactly constitutes a NZ network operator (ie. > > network operators from other countries are banned) and then verify who > > exactly fits the definition. How would he do that? > > I quite agree. There are many networks in NZ and many operators. > Would op's of internet connected companies qualify or just op's of ISP's? > Would VISP's qualify? Alot of them don't know very much about > operating an Internet network, which is why they are "VISP's", and yet > they should still be welcome here and be able to contribute. Trial by a jury of your peers. If the members of the list know you as an operator, you get on. If they don't, you don't. There doesn't need to be any formal defn of what constitutes an operator, merely that the current members are happy for you to be on the list. In practice, I imagine this would become "unless you're a really annoying piece of work, and somebody complains vociferously about your request to join, you'll get on". Note that I'm basically discussing "rights to post" here. I'm not suggesting that the archives shouldn't be public, and if there was a way to allow Joe Random Public to join readonly without a vetting process, then that's all good as well. > > Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not how NANOG operates. If they > > can handle the occasional outburst of off-topic messages, and I'm sure > > they get more of that on NANOG than on NZNOG, then the participants on > > this list are probably able to do so as well. > > I say that this is a knee-jerk reaction to some of Sahil's friends causing > trouble. I vote that we ignore them and continue on as per usual. It's been a thought that's occurred to me and others every so often during at least the last four years. We could ignore them, or we could try and fix NZNOG to be a better thing, coz at the moment it's broken, teenagers or no. > > Closing NZNOG would set a bad example, IMO. > > There is enough "clubs" and "secret societies" in the world without closing > NZNOG based on the whims and ideals of a few. So, there are lots of closed lists, so we shouldn't tidy our one? > The Internet is meant to be a tool of democracy and an open one at that. The Internet isn't *meant* to be anything. It just is. I don't believe that the orginal creators of the 'net had anything to say about its democratic value. I'm prepared to stand corrected, of course. There are costs and barriers you must overcome to become a network operator. Why shouldn't there be a small barrier to you participating in a network operators list? > Lets keep it that way. Sounds like an arguement for untrammelled access to your mailbox by spammers to me. > How can we criticise [The NZ closed club of the Internet] if we go and do > the same? I didn't realise that criticism of the "The NZ closed club of the Internet" was part of NZNOG's role. Maybe that should be put on the list info pages :-). Cheers Si _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Heads up: 167.179.0.0/16 seems to be hijacked
by Juha Saarinen 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Allocated to Tower Group, but advertised by someone in Florida. http://openrbl.org/ip/167/179/4/67.htm http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S2425 http://spamhaus.org/SBL/sbl.lasso?query=SBL7859 Contains "interesting" domains like: m67.affordable-shopping.com [167.179.4.67] m116.your-products.net [167.179.1.116] m88.super-shops.net[167.179.3.88] m73.discount-shops.net[167.179.2.73] mx175.optin-america.com[196.4.167.179] It was used internally at Tower, but not advertised to the rest of the world, so it was easy prey apparently. Is this a common occurence on the Interweb? -- Juha Saarinen

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Price of APNIC /16 allocation?
by Juha Saarinen 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Could someone please give me a rough idea how much a /16 from APNIC would cost? -- Juha Saarinen

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RE: List of Admins.
by Xtra Security Team 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Hi All, The offender has been removed from the Xtra Network. Regards Xtra Security and Abuse Team Support : http://xtra.co.nz/security ******************************************** This email is for the person(s) identified above, and is confidential to the sender and the person(s). No one else is authorised to use or disseminate this email or its contents. The email or its contents do not necessarily represent the views of Xtra Limited or Telecom. ********************************************

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Re: [nznog] List of Admins.
by Craig Spiers 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

at least someone has their head screwed on straight this morning! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Whitmore" <lennon(a)orcon.net.nz> To: "Craig Spiers" <craig(a)concept.net.nz> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [nznog] List of Admins. > I've already complained to abuse(a)xtra >

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None
by craig＠concept.net.nz 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Im a fuckwit

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RE: [nznog] List of Admins.
by phuct up 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

I no like listen you, undastan? You are fucky me upy and I will resign upy Undastan? -----Original Message----- From: Donald Neal [mailto:Donald.Neal(a)telecom.co.nz] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 8:48 a.m. To: phuct_up(a)msn.com Subject: FW: [nznog] List of Admins. You appear to have made a number of postings to the NZNOG list yesterday without operational content and failing to show appropriate respect for other subscribers. This is a second warning as outlined in paragraph 10 of the AUP. Please immediately change the volume and nature of your postings to the list. Donald Neal Mailing List Administrator Donald Neal | piano - a musical Technical Specialist | shipping line. Network Delivery | [ Graeme Garden ] Telecom Corp. NZ Ltd | > -----Original Message----- > From: phuct up [mailto:phuct up(a)msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 22:48 > To: 'Matthew G Brown' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > > I leave you alone if you no post no more message, undastan? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:47 p.m. > To: 'phuct up' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > Leave me alone. I have networks to run. I am finished with my NET4U > posts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: phuct up [mailto:phuct up(a)msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:42 PM > To: 'Matthew G Brown' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > > Im osama. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:40 p.m. > To: 'phuct up' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > And you would be ?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: phuct up [mailto:phuct up(a)msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:34 PM > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > Importance: High > > > I thought I tell you no post, okay? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:36 p.m. > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] List of Admins. > > What ever did happen to the list of NZ Network Admins. Was somone > maintaining an up to date page recently ? > > {sorry "osama"} > > Best Regards > > Matthew G Brown > Chief Executive > B & R Holdings LIMITED > Information Technology Holdings Company > http://www.brh.co.nz > > > > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > > > > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------

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Notice of Unsubscription - Updated
by Donald Neal 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

NZNOG People, As you will no doubt be aware, paragraph ten of this list's Acceptable Use Policy reads: 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. I have this morning unsubscribed the following addresses: mastermithras(a)yahoo.co.nz phuct up(a)msn.com - Donald Neal List Administrator Donald Neal | piano - a musical Technical Specialist | shipping line. Network Delivery | [ Graeme Garden ] Telecom Corp. NZ Ltd | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Nog list
by Tim John 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Donald, <> I have this morning unsubscribed the address mastermithras(a)yahoo.co.nz. This is the first time in [counts on fingers] around seven years of this list's operation that this has been done. I'm disappointed that it was necessary. </> I understand your concerns, but how can it be disappointing to take this action against someone who obviously shouldn't have been on this list in the first place !! Surely people having the email insignia of 'a' and 'phuct up' are a dead giveaway of the type of people we DON'T want on the NOG. I think this thread in some aspects has expired and I have started using my trusty old "Delete" key to simply remove certain messages before reading them, particularly those from the two address mentioned above. I suggest the _real_ subscribers of this list follow suit and take the attitude that 'ignore them and they will go away'. I'm sure it's only fun for these guys if they get a response. My 2c Tim DISCLAIMER: The content of this email is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity named above. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that the use, distribution and publication of the above information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact Domainz by returning the email and destroying the original. Thank you.

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Notice of Unsubscription
by Donald Neal 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

NZNOG People, As you will no doubt be aware, paragraph ten of this list's Acceptable Use Policy reads: 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. I have this morning unsubscribed the address mastermithras(a)yahoo.co.nz. This is the first time in [counts on fingers] around seven years of this list's operation that this has been done. I'm disappointed that it was necessary. - Donald Neal List Administrator Donald Neal | piano - a musical Technical Specialist | shipping line. Network Delivery | [ Graeme Garden ] Telecom Corp. NZ Ltd | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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ASN allocation update
by Rob Thomas 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Hi, NZNOG folks. [ Apologies to those of you who have read this post in other fora. ] As of 24 March 2003 IANA has allocated a new block of ASN's to ARIN. The ASN range changes are: Was 29696 - 32767 Held by the IANA Now 29696 - 30719 Allocated by ARIN (March 2003) Now 30720 - 32767 Held by the IANA The bogus ASN monitoring has been updated to reflect this change. You should update any filters you have. The bogus ASN report, which shows ASN's leaking private, unallocated, and reserved ASN's, is located here: <http://www.cymru.com/BGP/asnbogusrep.html> I now return you to your previously scheduled Net4U thread. ;) Thanks, Rob, for Team Cymru. -- Rob Thomas http://www.cymru.com ASSERT(coffee != empty);

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RE: [nznog] List of Admins.
by phuct up 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Hey no talk me like that or I no like you anymore do u undastan! -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)comsolve.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:52 p.m. To: phuct up Cc: matt(a)brh.co.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] List of Admins. Grow up. Matthew is someone who contributes to Nznog regually and we all know who he is. You are some smart arse little twat running from a @msn address. Chances are you are not a network admin, so what the hell are you doing on this list anyway? Grow up or go away. Michael Hallager > I thought I tell you no post, okay? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:36 p.m. > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] List of Admins. > > What ever did happen to the list of NZ Network Admins. Was somone > maintaining an up to date page recently ? > > {sorry "osama"} > > Best Regards > > Matthew G Brown > Chief Executive > B & R Holdings LIMITED > Information Technology Holdings Company > http://www.brh.co.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] List of Admins.
by phuct up 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

I leave you alone if you no post no more message, undastan? -----Original Message----- From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:47 p.m. To: 'phuct up' Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. Leave me alone. I have networks to run. I am finished with my NET4U posts. -----Original Message----- From: phuct up [mailto:phuct_up(a)msn.com] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:42 PM To: 'Matthew G Brown' Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. Im osama. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:40 p.m. To: 'phuct up' Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. And you would be ?? -----Original Message----- From: phuct up [mailto:phuct_up(a)msn.com] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:34 PM To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. Importance: High I thought I tell you no post, okay? -----Original Message----- From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:36 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [nznog] List of Admins. What ever did happen to the list of NZ Network Admins. Was somone maintaining an up to date page recently ? {sorry "osama"} Best Regards Matthew G Brown Chief Executive B & R Holdings LIMITED Information Technology Holdings Company http://www.brh.co.nz _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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List of Admins.
by Matthew G Brown 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

What ever did happen to the list of NZ Network Admins. Was somone maintaining an up to date page recently ? {sorry "osama"} Best Regards Matthew G Brown Chief Executive B & R Holdings LIMITED Information Technology Holdings Company http://www.brh.co.nz

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Net4u
by Timothy Law 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

I wonder if this was really Sahil or someone hacked his account Headers are as follows Return-Path: <nobody(a)sahil.net.nz> Received: from vscan.satlan.com (vscan.satlan.com [202.27.218.3]) by mailhost.satlan.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id h2R2Obvx024195 for <tim(a)satlan.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:24:41 +1200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vscan.satlan.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58900502B7 for <Tim(a)satlan.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:24:35 +1200 (NZST) Received: from sahil.net.nz (web.net4u.co.nz [210.55.10.6]) by vscan.satlan.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363E7500FB for <Tim(a)satlan.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 14:24:23 +1200 (NZST) Received: from sahil.net.nz (www [127.0.0.1]) by sahil.net.nz (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h2R1p1oL028829 for <Tim(a)satlan.com>; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:51:01 +1200 Received: (from nobody(a)localhost) by sahil.net.nz (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) id h2R1p18W028827; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:51:01 +1200 Message-Id: <200303270151.h2R1p18W028827(a)sahil.net.nz> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:51:01 From: CURRYMAN 2003 NZ <sahil(a)net4u.co.nz> To: <Tim(a)satlan.com> Reply-To: CURRYMAN 2003 NZ <sahil(a)net4u.co.nz> Subject: Hi X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: UebiMiau 2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MSMail-Priority: Medium Importance: Medium Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; MIME-Version: 1.0 X-UIDL: 8(a)1"!)gM"!be!"!FF4"! -----Original Message----- From: CURRYMAN 2003 NZ [mailto:sahil(a)net4u.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 1:51 p.m. To: Tim(a)satlan.com Subject: Hi I would like to touch your penis, lets meet for curry _____________________________________________________________________ This mail was sent using Net4U's WebMail System - webmail.net4u.co.nz

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Sad News
by Mark Foster 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

I'm suprised it hasnt been crossposted here yet, so if you already know about this my apologies. http://www.linux.net.nz/lists/NZLUG/2003/03/0681.html Mark.

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Re: [nznog] OT: Re: NET4U staff
by Robert McDonald 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

The fact that you* may be young doesn't excuse childish behaviour. Think before putting fingers to keys please. *Bites tounge and says nothing accept*, "i third this". Take it elsewhere. Enough's enough. Thanks, Rob (List co-ordinators, maybe moderated list would be appropriate for a few days) [*] - The collective "Key mashers" On Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:01, Nathan Ward wrote: > <quote> > Could this list possibly be made moderated for a week or so, or have > people posting drivel removed from it? (After suitable warnings, etc). > > I am happy to read about Net4U's antics as they are amusing and at least > partially relevant, but I can do without the frantic keyboard-mashings of > inept scriptweenies and all the other quasi-illiterate snot that's been > on here today. > </quote> > > I second that. Move along. > > Nathan Ward > > a wrote: > >Not only does Sahil steal bandwidth, but apparantly he > >also uses other's credit cards to purchase goods and > >services, and I have received proof which indicates > >that is the case. > > > >http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile > >- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. > >_______________________________________________ > >Nznog mailing list > >Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- -------------- Robert McDonald NZPages.Net Web Services Ph: 021 1770061 ICQ: 86984875 http://www.nzpages.net

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Fwd: Re: [nznog] NET4U staff
by a 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

>From net4u.co.nz: "DUE TO THE RECENT ARTICLE THAT HAS BEEN PUBLISHED IN THE NEW ZEALAND HERALD DATED: 25/03/2003 NET4U LIMITED HAVE OPTED TO CONTRACT AN INDEPENDENT THIRD PARTY (SIGEL DATA SYSTEMS LTD) TO AUDIT AND OVERSEE THE OPERATION OF NET4U LIMITED SYSTEMS AND NETWORK FOR A PERIOD OF THREE MONTHS, DURING WHICH SIGEL DATA SYSTEMS LIMITED WILL REPORT ON THE LEGITIMACY OF THE ISP OPERATION. THESE REPORTS WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC VIA THE NET4U LIMITED WEBSITE, BUT WILL NOT DISCLOSE ANY SENSITIVE INFORMATION THAT WOULD POSE A THREAT TO THE SECURITY OF THE ISP." Sigel is a current customer of Net4u and the owner is a personal and close friend of Sahil Gupt and previously was a customer of neuron, a virtual ISP under net4u. This causes certain conflicts of interest. Also the fact that net4u will be releasing the documents themselves, also shows that they may not be originals if in fact the audit is worth the paper it is printed on, but considering the above highlighted conflict of interest, I doubt it very much. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.

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Re: [nznog] NET4U staff
by Michael Hallager 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

> Sahil, > > I have the following questions that I want answered in public: > > 1) It is ON TAPE that you stole bandwidth from Callplus. Do you think that > we are stupid enough to believe that you can steal bandwidth and nothing > else? > > 2) Why have you put up on your website a statment that you have employed > a technical company to oversee the operation of your ISP when *you* > knowingly did what you did? Are you trying to fool us and your clients into > believing that it was an accident? > Do you think that this is a technical issue (As you seem to be trying to > make out) or one of honesty? > > 3) Why is that you feel that you "should be out of business" if you misused > credit cards (Alledged) but that you should be treated differently for what > you did to Callplus? (Established). > > 4) Why did you never heed one word of the many lectures that I gave > you, at the time when I was prepared to speak to you, on the very subject > of honesty? > > Michael Hallager > > > --- Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED <sgupta(a)net4u.co.nz> > > wrote: > The company has NEVER done this and I can > > give this > > > > > is writing that I have > > > NEVER gone out shopping with ANY of our customers > > > Credit Card Details. > > > > > > You would hope, if anybody at the company was doing > > > such a thing that we > > > would have been out of business right after we > > > started climbing up the > > > ladder. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sahil Gupta > > > Senior Account Manager > > > NET4U LIMITED > > > > > > Phone: 0508-263-848 > > > Fax: 07-8582659 > > > Mobile: 029-366-6375 > > > > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, [iso-8859-1] a wrote: > > > > Not only does Sahil steal bandwidth, but > > > > > > apparantly he > > > > > > > also uses other's credit cards to purchase goods > > > > > > and > > > > > > > services, and I have received proof which > > > > > > indicates > > > > > > > that is the case. > > > > > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile > > > > - Check & compose your email via SMS on your > > > > > > Telstra or Vodafone mobile. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Nznog mailing list > > > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile > > - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Re: [nznog] NET4U staff
by a 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

So you do not deny using credit cards to receive goods and services which you do not have authorisation to use? --- Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED <sgupta(a)net4u.co.nz> wrote: > Talk to me off-list, telling me what we have done. > I'm interested in > finding out. > > Regards, > > Sahil Gupta > Senior Account Manager > NET4U LIMITED > > Phone: 0508-263-848 > Fax: 07-8582659 > Mobile: 029-366-6375 > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, [iso-8859-1] a wrote: > > > Yes, I know you have NEVER done it with customer > > credit card numbers, but how about with credit > cards > > full stop, whether or not they are your customers > > numbers does not matter. So have you ever used > card > > numbers of noncustomers/customers/anyone? Please > dont > > try that again, changing one word, if you are > going to > > respond, respond to my statements, not a sightly > > altered statement eg not customers cards, instead > of > > no I havent used credit cards which I have not > been > > authorised to use. > > > > --- Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED > <sgupta(a)net4u.co.nz> > > wrote: > The company has NEVER done this and I can > > give this > > > is writing that I have > > > NEVER gone out shopping with ANY of our > customers > > > Credit Card Details. > > > > > > You would hope, if anybody at the company was > doing > > > such a thing that we > > > would have been out of business right after we > > > started climbing up the > > > ladder. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Sahil Gupta > > > Senior Account Manager > > > NET4U LIMITED > > > > > > Phone: 0508-263-848 > > > Fax: 07-8582659 > > > Mobile: 029-366-6375 > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 25 Mar 2003, [iso-8859-1] a wrote: > > > > > > > Not only does Sahil steal bandwidth, but > > > apparantly he > > > > also uses other's credit cards to purchase > goods > > > and > > > > services, and I have received proof which > > > indicates > > > > that is the case. > > > > > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile > > > > - Check & compose your email via SMS on your > > > Telstra or Vodafone mobile. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Nznog mailing list > > > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > > > > > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile > > - Check & compose your email via SMS on your > Telstra or Vodafone mobile. > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.

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NET4U staff
by a 24 Mar '03

24 Mar '03

Not only does Sahil steal bandwidth, but apparantly he also uses other's credit cards to purchase goods and services, and I have received proof which indicates that is the case. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.

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