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Re: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop
by Vance McIndoe 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Looking at specs of the Redback (RADIUS) it looks like unicast and multicast have different accounting attributes, therefore Telecom or any ISP for that matter, would in theory be able have differential rates. BTW. if you really want multicast widely available within NZ - you need to help Telecom with a business offering first - a residential service would surely follow :-) Perhaps an ISP or national/global corporate could put their thinking cap on and convince Telecom of how much money they can make (or save) together... As already said - the technology is there - there's just no guaranteed revenue stream. One good start would be having a multicast-only stream (albeit limited in content) available on JSG to enable users to set up their clients properly - most users don't know or even care if it's unicast or multicast, let alone how to get multicast going. ###################################################################### Attention: This e-mail message is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author. ######################################################################

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Re: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop
by Dean Pemberton 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:53:42AM +1300, James Tyson wrote: > > Sure. Dean, do you want to send me information for configuring the > multicast BGP address family, MSDP and possibly dvmrp on JunOS for me, and > I'll add it. > Ok - no problems > > It's true. Still, what can you do. I imagine that some people on NZNOG are > just not interested, and can't be bothered listening to us going on over > and over again about it[1]. > > [1] have you seen the size of this thread? Actually looking at the responses to the Conference Program stuff. Multicast is second only to IPv6 and just ahead of VoIP. It is also the only thing aproximating actual content on this list in months =) Dean - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop
by Dean Pemberton 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 10:49:38AM +1300, James Tyson wrote: > > > > Yep. Everyone has come out and said "Dean, But it's already at Wix/ape" > > > > Ok then. Well lets get a HowTo/FAQ on how I can set up a tunnel and > > watch stuff today. > > > > *waits eagerly to be told there already is one* > > Hah! That sounds like technical writing! > Speaking of teechnical writing, is anyone seeing my email being copied to > nznog? > Nope - I don't think so Maybe they have /ignored us =) But anyway, so what you are saying is that there are no instruction on how to do this? What it sounds like is that everything is almost there. The content is there. The presence at wix/ape is there. All it needs is someone to put the lego together. So where is my frigging technical document =) Dean - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop
by Juha Saarinen 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, James Tyson wrote: > Not entirely, www.livecaster.com have a dynamic multicast tunnelling > application with clients for windows and many other OS's. That site is down, but check dis: http://videolab.uoregon.edu/tools/multicast_tools.html -- Juha Take off every sig! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop
by Vance McIndoe 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Yeah the JSG context... BTW. Sounds like you need the NZ Broadband list Juha :-o That's been quashed several times.... not possible on JetSt*. > -----Original Message----- > From: Juha Saarinen [SMTP:juha(a)saarinen.org] > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 9:57 AM > To: Vance McIndoe > Cc: 'nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz' > Subject: Re: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop > > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Vance McIndoe wrote: > > > As already said - the technology is there - there's just no guaranteed > > revenue stream. One good start would be having a multicast-only stream > > (albeit limited in content) available on JSG to enable users to set up > their > > clients properly - most users don't know or even care if it's unicast > or > > multicast, let alone how to get multicast going. > > Vance! You have left the Borg! ;-) > > One question: are you talking about setting up multicast within the > Jetstream Games context? > > If so, is it technically possible to be logged onto multiple (two/three) > contexts at the same time? At the moment you can't / it's disallowed. > > -- > Juha > Take off every sig! ###################################################################### Attention: This e-mail message is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author. ######################################################################

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RE: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop
by Andreas Girardet 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

I talked to the guys from triangle TV in Grey Lynn and I am sure they would be happy to join as a TV channel on such an experimental setup. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Dean Pemberton > Sent: Thursday, 17 January 2002 10:04 a.m. > To: Joe Abley > Cc: Vance McIndoe; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: NZNOG agenda Multicast Activation Workshop > > > How about we take the following tac then. > > 1) Secure some content. If there is no content then this is > a waste of > time anyway. It sounds like we have atleast some content availible in > the BBC World stuff. > > 2) Make this content availible at both WIX and APE. > > 3) Allow people to connect to this content via tunnels. > Sure it would > be cool if every ISP in the country got on the bandwagon and you could > just IGMP join from your modem or dsl. But it's just not going to > happen. > > If the ISP's don't already see the feature being used then they are > unlikely to put time into something 'just in case'. > > If on the otherhand, we get good content that people want to see. And > we make the tunneling operation easy to set up. Then we might get a > large audience. ISP's might notice this data crossing their > network and > start to engineer it so that the multicast (rather than many unicast > tunnels) can penetrate further into their networks. > > Just a thought anyway. And if not, well then we still have it on WIX > and APE or anyone who wants it. > > How does that sound? > > > > On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 02:56:59PM -0500, Joe Abley wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 08:42:32AM +1300, Vance McIndoe wrote: > > > BTW. if you really want multicast widely available within > NZ - you need to > > > help Telecom with a business offering first - a > residential service would > > > surely follow :-) > > > > Good one :) > > > > There's nothing to stop anybody distributing multicast content > > right now, using tunnels. The ISPs to which multicast consumers > > connect don't need to necessarily be involved. > > > > If there's really such a huge demand for multicast services, > > how come people aren't already using them? > > > > > Perhaps an ISP or national/global corporate could put > > > their thinking cap on and convince Telecom of how much > money they can make > > > (or save) together... > > > > Hilarious :) > > > > > > Joe > > - > > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to > majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > where the body of your message reads: > > unsubscribe nznog > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog > - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Topics - Local loop unbundling -
by Donald Neal 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

-- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd >>> "Brian Gibbons" <brian(a)outersite.co.nz> 01/15/02 08:19 >>> [...] >Richard Naylor>>My own view on this is that the loop shouldn't be unbundled >The politics come from phone companies and their desire to deliver an >analogue dial tone to a subscriber - leave them to it. >Many subscribers to this list already use one of Telecom's "local loop >access" products - IPNet. How about a technical discussion at the conference >on IPNet - the good the bad and the ugly. >I am in the same camp as Richard (don't unbundle the copper) but IPNet >doesn't quite do it for me. >A technical presentation by Telecom on IPNet would probably be beneficial to >conference attendees. This could lead into a discussion on what ISPs really >want for their downstream via Telecom. Would you be looking for a presentation from operational staff on what IPNet does and how, or from development staff on plans for it? - Donald Neal This is a public communication. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Topics - Local loop unbundling -
by John Lynch 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

At 07:42 PM 1/16/02 +1300, you wrote: >On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Richard Naylor wrote: > > > > > Well sort of. I was actually offering to tell all about how to build > > high speed low cost networks without fiber........but maybe that would > > upset too many folks. Thats serious. Its about how to fit fiber media > > converters, and ethernet switches in weather proof box on poles, that > > survive static discharge, and lightning, etc. It works really well in a > > residential environment and delivers 100mbps. > >I would really like to hear about this. It would be inspirational for many >people, including some telcos that shall remain unnamed which might take >out a contract on Rich. I'd been a keen listner too. >-- >Regards, > >Juha >C program run. C program crash. C programmer quit. > >- >To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >where the body of your message reads: >unsubscribe nznog John Lynch System Administrator (string and tape specialist) Wise Net - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: just out of interest...
by Ewen McNeill 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

In message <20020115230309.H1724(a)buffoon.automagic.org>, Joe Abley writes: >On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 05:00:02PM +1300, Chris Hellberg wrote: >> I've got /48 block from freenet6 that could be peered directly with >> instead of bouncing back off the states. [... Only WIX, only one >> address in use...] > >Well, there's no reason we couldn't make a virtual IX. I have >a machine in Auckland that could probably be shifted to the APE >for the purpose; a v6-in-v4 tunnel from Wellington to Auckland >sucks a bit, but not as much as a v6-in-v4 tunnel from Wellington >to the US :) I suspect that we'd have to tunnel it outside of Citylink/APE at least for the moment -- for all the same reasons that v6 is being tunnelled at present most other places. It's also a whole lot easier to get things started that way. And as you say, a Wellington<->Auckland tunnel would be no where near as much of an issue as Wellington<->US. >It occurs to me that the number of people ready and willing to >attach routers with v6 code loads directly to the APE or WIX FWIW, I've got a small set of machines connected to Citylink via an OpenBSD-based router, which should be able to do v6 with a little prodding. I've also got some clients who are connected to Citylink (some of whom are also peering with the Citylink WIX route reflector) who have expressed an interest in playing with v6 at some stage. And I could probably dig up a few more who might be interested (including various SageNZ people who spent a while playing with v6 at a recent workshop). All that said, none of these people (including me) have "public" v6 space, and none of them are providers that could justify the cost of getting even "small ISP" sized chunks of v6 space. Something in the order of a few dozen addresses worth, costing very little indeed (or suballocated out of someone else's larger allocation) might be practical though. And as one of the people who emailed Donald early on and said "I'd definitely consider it", I should answer Dean's plea while I'm posting: >We have thusfar had a few people interested in Wireless, A few in DDos, >and a few in Multicast. All in all about 10 people. This does not a >conference make. > >I guess no one else is interested. I'm lurking here, and watching with interest the discussion going on, but have been trying to avoid adding too much to the noise, particularly since I'm not working for a provider, and have no provider clients at present. I'm still at a "definitely seriously consider it" stage. If it were held in conjunction with a Uniforum/SageNZ conference then it's virtually certain I'd go. If not, I'd have to look more closely at the costs of getting there/staying there. (No rich employer to send me -- I'm self employed :-) ) In the nznog-sort of area, things of interest (no particular order): - build your own redundant link out of easily obtainable parts (I'm thinking cable modem + ADSL + routing magic here) - routing magic in general (ie, more modern routing protocols, BGP, et al) - v6, and particularly how you can play with it before everyone else adopts it - voice-over-IP, particularly in a do-it-yourself kind of way (I was following the mailing list of Asterisk, a VoIP PBX that's being developed, for a while. It seems very promising, but I haven't had time to do much more about it) - anything that Richard or Simon can be persuaded to talk about :-) - Secure DNS/Bind v9/ways of enabling oportunistic IPSec Ewen - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZNOG Conference Organisation [was RE:NZNOG Conference2002: Feedback So Far]
by Dean Pemberton 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 14:00, Donald Neal wrote: > > No, Thursday and Friday have traditionally been days for the > presentation of papers. Tutorials and workshops ran Monday to > Wednesday. > Ok, My bad. I got confused. It's been 5 years since I was at one =) You said that the conference was going to be run Thurs-Sat. I thought that as the first days used to be used for Tutorials etc that this was the idea here. sorry. > These have yet to be set, and I see a decision about charges as one to > be made by discussion between NZNOG representatives and the UniForum NZ > convenor. If we choose to take this course. Sure - I just wondered if you had any information on this yet > > I thought you were making reasonable progress collecting peoples' > preferences. There also remains the task of following up offers to > present or to provide speakers, which is a task I'm hoping not to end up > taking on alone. Yeah - I'm just not seeing the level of response that would make me comfortable that we have the right program. Sure we have a list of possible things. But the responses for "Yeah I'd come to see that" or "Nah thats dumb" have been deafening in their silence. We have thusfar had a few people interested in Wireless, A few in DDos, and a few in Multicast. All in all about 10 people. This does not a conference make. I guess no one else is interested. Dean - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Donald Neal 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

-- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd >>> "Andy Linton" <asjl(a)lionra.net.nz> 01/14/02 10:01 >>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Donald Neal wrote: >> If not stopped, I'll proceed on the assumption that we can plan to do >> something without seeking a unifying reason for it. However, if people >> who would attend in the right circumstances do have goals they think we >> should be aiming to achieve, now's the time to speak up. >Perhaps it would be useful to revisit out terms of reference - see below. >I'm sure Donald will be keeping these points in mind but I'd like others >to consider them too. I'd suggest that some form of program committee need >to be consituted - this event need to be content driven not event driven. >Let's think about organising the event when we have something that looks >like a program that people want to see/hear. >The program committee could be the list if we want to keep the process >informal for now. If someone thinks they have something that people might >want to hear about post a short description and see who shows some >interest. I want to keep open - _if people are interested_ - the option of doing things which would not be appropriate for the mailing list. Most obviously, tutorials at a level too introductory for the content to belong here. Whether that's "What is BGP and why is it not used in Chinese cooking?" or whatever. I'm not sure that the format follows the programme. For one thing, we do have the option of bringing in an international speaker of some stature, but doing that would have an effect on the cost. We have had nine offers so far to be or provide speakers. I believe that what we do about that number depends on the format chosen - one day one stream will not allow that many. (That's one reason I haven't yet got back to those people.) Choosing a more ambitious style of event allows (requires?) us more actively to solicit contributions. So decisions about the format may well drive decisions about the content. More complex still, the decision about whether to run a demo network or how large it should be is both a format and a content decision. It has a lot to do with venue, too. So far, what feedback to the list there has been on format suggests that we're looking for a two-day residential event. If that is some sort of consensus, then I agree that it's time to think about content, but I'd like a more general organising group rather than merely a program committee, since decisions do need to be made about things like the venue and the price. Right now, I'd like more feedback to allow us to judge whether that is indeed a consensus view. See also http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20020111044613.… . - Donald Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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just out of interest...
by Joe Abley 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

... is anybody here running a public v6 network? Is there any interest in peering over the APE? Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZNOG Conference Organisation [was RE:NZNOG Conference2002: Feedback So Far]
by Donald Neal 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

>>> "Dean Pemberton" <dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz> 01/16/02 03:29 >>> >Thursday and friday have traditionally been the practical workshop days. >Is it not possible to run a stream on the main conference days? Or is >it thought that room concerns may be too much? No, Thursday and Friday have traditionally been days for the presentation of papers. Tutorials and workshops ran Monday to Wednesday. >> In any case, we would be aiming to keep under the sort of cost figure >> Roger De Salis has mentioned. >> >Have you found out what the Uniforum conference fees are this year? >Would we just charge this? Or look to recover our own costs only? These have yet to be set, and I see a decision about charges as one to be made by discussion between NZNOG representatives and the UniForum NZ convenor. If we choose to take this course. [...] >I think we are still neglecting program content. We don't really have a >good idea what people want to see. Unless they are all mailing you >privatly, in which case fess up with the info =) I thought you were making reasonable progress collecting peoples' preferences. There also remains the task of following up offers to present or to provide speakers, which is a task I'm hoping not to end up taking on alone. - Donald Neal -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re router smashing contest
by Phill Groom 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

I seem to recall Peter Mott saying something along the lines of this recently; >I think a router smashing competition would be a good drawcard :-) http://cisco.ninjas.org/ Phill. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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NZNOG Conference 2002: Topics - Local loop unbundling -
by Brian Gibbons 14 Jan '02

14 Jan '02

Juha> > Local loop unbundling? J S Russell>>The other topics are pretty "pure" technical ones. J S Russell>>This topic you suggest has the stench of politics about it. :) Richard Naylor>>My own view on this is that the loop shouldn't be unbundled The politics come from phone companies and their desire to deliver an analogue dial tone to a subscriber - leave them to it. Many subscribers to this list already use one of Telecom's "local loop access" products - IPNet. How about a technical discussion at the conference on IPNet - the good the bad and the ugly. I am in the same camp as Richard (don't unbundle the copper) but IPNet doesn't quite do it for me. A technical presentation by Telecom on IPNet would probably be beneficial to conference attendees. This could lead into a discussion on what ISPs really want for their downstream via Telecom. Cheers BG. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Donald Neal 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

>>> "Kefyn Judson (ENZ)" <kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz> 01/11/02 12:19 >>> [...] >What is the point of us getting together? I'm not knocking it here, but if >we can identify our reasons for getting together we should be able to >identify which setup would work for us. >Is it for networking? >For chewing over a specific issue? >For hands on workshopping something (perhaps all the Spam killing ideas of >late :-)?) >For discussing how to encourage, for instance multicast, growth in the NZ >market? >Have a clear purpose up front would help ensure that we are heading in the >right direction and help prevent it degenerating into a talkfest. There's been little feedback so far on this. My own guess is that that is because there is not just a single reason why people go to conferences. Partly, it's to learn things from the formal programme. Partly, it's to learn things informally. Vendors will be there in part to promote their brand and quitew possible to sell specific products or services. Potential buyers may actually want to know about specific prodiucts or services. Some attendees will be there in part simply to meet people whom its valuable in different ways to know. And not everyone is expected to be interested in every subject discussed, either. If not stopped, I'll proceed on the assumption that we can plan to do something without seeking a unifying reason for it. However, if people who would attend in the right circumstances do have goals they think we should be aiming to achieve, now's the time to speak up. - Donald Neal -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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NZNOG Conference 2002: Topics so far
by Andreas Girardet 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

The list so far, I have grouped them into various areas and added the various companies / individuals ############################################ - Wireless beyond 2.4 GHz - Wireless Network Security Issues - Network Sniffing demo. Contributors: Dean Pemberton ############################################ - Voice over IP - end-user telephony and Toll-bypass Contributors: Cisco ############################################ - Security and Abuse - SPAM - SOP6 and freedom on the net - DDoS attacks Contributors: ############################################ - MPLS (Intro/overview) - rfc2547bis MPLS VPN's Contributors: Dean Pemberton Cisco ############################################ - OSPF/ISIS/BGP (anything that people want to know) Contributors: Dean Pemberton ############################################ - IPv6. Migration strategies Contributors: Dean Pemberton ############################################ - Multicast (MSDP, DNS as the roll of RP) Contributors: Dean Pemberton ############################################ - Local loop unbundling -- technical feasibility study Contributors: Citylink ############################################ - Fibre MAN's, both Ethernet and DWDM Contributors: Cisco ############################################ - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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NZNOG Conference 2002: Topics
by Andreas Girardet 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

>From the past year of discussions - IPv6. Migration strategies - Wireless beyond 2.4 GHz - Voice over IP - SPAM - SOP6 and freedom on the net If someone goes through the archives, I am sure we will have more points like that. Simple voting could decide then what the actual main topics are and we could then have workshops rather than long speeches. We really just need one or two main topics and could have work shops in which we actually draw up some steps to then be implemented in our various companies. If we keep it simple we will more likely succeed in getting something useful out of it. Beer is something that will happen automatically. Andreas - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

Dean, you're a trainer. How about you do an "Ipv6 and its implications on NZ Nets" or the like! Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz] Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 12:10 PM To: Andy Linton Cc: NZNOG List Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far On Mon, 2002-01-14 at 08:01, Andy Linton wrote: > > I think you need to have some goal here. I'd be interested in this meeting > IFF it's technical - if we get marketing and sales types there I won't be > nearly as interested (possibly one of the understatements of 2002). > > Perhaps it would be useful to revisit out terms of reference - see below. > I'm sure Donald will be keeping these points in mind but I'd like others > to consider them too. I'd suggest that some form of program committee need > to be consituted - this event need to be content driven not event driven. > Let's think about organising the event when we have something that looks > like a program that people want to see/hear. > I think that it would also be useful to look at the niche we fill in the industry. For example. We don't want to have content that fits into the Governance or Legislative domain because thats for ISOCNZ. We also might want to stay away from the wider Open Systems issues, because thats for Uniforum to address. This list is for Technical Network issues only. So things that I would not be happy to see in an NZNOG conference. . "A detailed look at the politics of neutral peering" . "Security issues of your favorite Linux distro" . "Domainz" (I'm going to get flamed on this one. but I don't think that there are any TECHNICAL issues that need to be discussed.) Things that I think are slightly more appropriate. . "An explanation of how new net technology X could be deployed in NZ" . "Detailed look at protocol X" . "Hands on workshop to install and demonstrate X." You get my point. We are a technical list, it should be a technical conference. Dean - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: JetStream/Start DHCP woes , FTP & capping
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U 11 Jan '02

11 Jan '02

I guess that is precisely why tucows/fileplanet exist. However, I feel it can always be done. Perhaps, one machine with high capacity storage and lots of grunt sitting on the Auckland Peering Exchange :=) Regards, Sahil Gupta NET4U Limited ------------------------------------ NET4U -- www.net4u.co.nz Home of the new - $24.95 128k ADSL Nationwide Internet Service Provider ------------------------------------ On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, David White wrote: > So what we need is some gigantic LOCAL storage of the more popular files > that multiple people are requesting from some OVERSEAS location. > > (I know, I know -- it was suggested 10 years ago. And there are copyright > issues. And expiry. And maintenance. And backup. And setup cost...) > > Still, it could be a valuable service an ISP might offer and benefit > themselves to boot! > > david > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sahil Gupta - NET4U [mailto:sahil(a)sahil.net.nz] > Sent: Saturday, 12 January 2002 11:30 > To: David White > Cc: Biff (Paradise); List Server Account; Warwick; Adsl2 > Subject: RE: JetStream/Start DHCP woes , FTP & capping > > > Well, National Bandwith is not a problem but, the *REAL* issue is that > most people get JetStart inorder to download movies/warez (this is what > gives an ISP a big big big loss) because most content being transferred > is International. > > Regards, > > Sahil Gupta > NET4U Limited > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 2/01/02 > - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Donald Neal 11 Jan '02

11 Jan '02

NZNOG People, I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the suggestion of a face to face conference this year. Potential attendees: 6 Offers to provide speaker(s): 3 Offer to help organise speakers: 1 Offer to help organise: 1 Offer of venue: 1 This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location. I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope to do so early next week. - Donald Neal -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Southercross running on protection?
by Chris Wedgwood 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

I'm seeing long delays (about 110ms more than usual) to 4768 and 4648 which lead me to believe southern-cross is running under protection... Hop Best Mean --------------------------------------------------- g2-0-2.pabr2.netgate.net.nz 23 26 p0-1-0.labr1.global-gateway.net.nz 219 224 b2-fa-0-0-0.losangeles.clix.net.nz 74 78 jcore1-at-0-3-0-20-acld.auckland.cl 274 278 Is anyone able to confirm or deny anything here? --cw - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Further Feedback
by Donald Neal 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

Dean, -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd >>> "Dean Pemberton" <dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz> 01/11/02 11:38 >>> [...] >It would be great to see overseas people there, but which would you >rather see. >a) Room full of only the people who can fly to anywhere in the country >and pay $400, all drooling over the latest International Guru? >or >b) Room full of anyone who wants to attend, all on an equal footing, >all learning from what each other has to offer. >Which one of these fits the culture of this list better? Given the very high proportion of postings by a very low proportion fo subscribers, and the many subscribers who hardly ever post at all, I'm not sure you'd like the answer to your question. For myself, I'm asking what people would actually exert themselves enough to attend. If hundreds of people just want to lurk on this list and wouldn't attend any event that was organised, that's fine. But that would make them not the people who should be deciding what form such an event should take. - Donald Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Further Feedback
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

I do like the Waikato Uni as the venue. That is once we have sorted out why we want to do this and a big venue is appropriate. We have international "guru's" coming down all the time. I'll keep an eye on the talent and drop a name if their field looks interesting to the list. Regards Kefyn JUDSON (FROM HAMILTON) Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Tony McGregor [mailto:tonym(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Friday, 11 January 2002 12:04 PM To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Further Feedback On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Dean Pemberton wrote: >It would be great to see overseas people there, but which would you >rather see. > > a) Room full of only the people who can fly to anywhere in the country > and pay $400, all drooling over the latest International Guru? > or > b) Room full of anyone who wants to attend, all on an equal footing, > all learning from what each other has to offer. Something in the middle. When we've done things like this at the university in the past the cost has been between $100 and $200. It could be less if vendors sponsor food/drinks bandwidth etc. If we hosted the event we would sponsor someone from NLANR or CAIDA to come (not quite drooling material, but generally worth listening too.) Accommodation and social extra (say $75 and $50). Tony - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

Dean I'd definitely be a starter for one of those tShirts. Could be that classical evolutionary picture from gorilla to Neanderthal to 21 century human! :-) Enough of that! What is the point of us getting together? I'm not knocking it here, but if we can identify our reasons for getting together we should be able to identify which setup would work for us. Is it for networking? For chewing over a specific issue? For hands on workshopping something (perhaps all the Spam killing ideas of late :-)?) For discussing how to encourage, for instance multicast, growth in the NZ market? Have a clear purpose up front would help ensure that we are heading in the right direction and help prevent it degenerating into a talkfest. We sort out why we want this and we may find that a smaller quarterly or biannual gathering is really more appropriate. Won't know until we know why we want do this. What y'all think? Coming from a vendor this has been valued at only 3 cents (plus GST). Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz] Sent: Friday, 11 January 2002 11:00 AM To: Roger De Salis Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:22:20AM +1300, Roger De Salis wrote: > > 1/ Organisation is pretty much a 12 month cycle (not to say > you can't do a smaller one in less time.) > Damn - my attention span has been clocked at under 10.7 seconds. Seriously though. I don't doubt for a minute that this is a long term job, and as such needs the right sort of person to organise it. > 2/ Guest overseas/celebrity speakers (from 1-3) usually > want business-class airfare plus free accomodation. > Greedy bastards. S/t I think this could be relaxed. None of the companies they work for will be flying them business class at the moment so why should we. > 3/ Organisors, who usually work for nothing, like have their > accomodation paid. (But this need not be the case) > One Maui Camper van comming up S/t If you like the idea enough to volenteer to organise it, then you were probably going to come anyway. So then you would have been paying for your accomodation anyway. So no one should mind paying. QED > > I believe most companies would stump up for this. > There are severe limitations in the number of establishments > that can deal with 50-150 people, and they typically want > 12 month notice of bookings. Yep - this I think will be an issue. We might want to look into this as a phase 1. it might effect some of the scaling decisions that Donald is talking about (single vs multiday, independant vs schlepping off uniforum) > > I'm sure Cisco, being the gorilla of the Internet industry > would be keen to participate, by providing an overseas > speaker, and other companies would no doubt contribute in > like fashion. The principle reason for finding a sponsor > is to stump up the hotel deposit. One tShirt with a slow knuckle-dragging, hairy, drooling gorilla named Cisco comming up =) S/t I don't think Speakers will be a huge problem. I think that doing them for cheap, and getting companies to just fork out disposable cash might be a bit harder. But who knows. > > I think the technical conference in NZ is a worthy one, but > I would put more emphasis on getting managers of Telco's > along, simply as it is an opportunity for them to understand > a little more of the technical side, and perhaps it is also > an opportunity for the techo's to understand the management > drivers. > <t-i-c> Telco's are some of the most technical and intelligent people that I know. They have recently been shown to make EXCELLENT networking decisions. I think they would be a great asset to any conference audience. </t-i-c> Having said all this I guess the thing that I'm worried about the most is that we start too big and it tanks. We are then left with the "Nah, we tried that once but it didn't work" All good points man. Esp the ones about how expensive and time consuming the organising is. Dean - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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