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Re: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999]
by Donald Neal 24 Nov '99

24 Nov '99

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RE: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999]
by Frank March 23 Nov '99

23 Nov '99

Comments on recent posts from Roger De Salis and Josh Bailey While I have no real personal disagreement with the sentiment Roger's post expresses, I do have some concerns about the way that the government might be involved in such a venture; I would personally prefer to see government get its own information policies in order (ie, developing a comprehensive vision for e-government in NZ) rather than plunging straight into building an infrastructure that might be done better by others. I do have some problems with what Josh Bailey has to say. Who is paying for the Cisco in the pizza parlour? I doubt if it is a government initiative; be it Californian or Federal. There has been some interesting stuff put out by Paul Budde recently (see the most recent 'Friday Fryup' from Russell Brown) about the impact (or lack) of NZ's telecommunications competition policy and has some bearing on the comment about the cost of 64K circuits in NZ. (Albeit, these comments are not really accepted in the place that I work.) Note that 64K circuits have never cost US$30K/m in NZ ... China had, and still has, some way to do to catch up, frankly. In commenting on the 'aisle' of Ciscos observed in Korea: it is perhaps possible that Telecom NZ has such as facility, I do not know. I am not aware of a serious lack of overseas data capacity for New Zealand at present (I would be very interested to know if there is in fact such a lack of capacity). The future seems reasonably secure with the prospect of the Southern Cross cable opening next year (increasing present overseas data carrying capacity by a factor of 100, I believe). There are serious bandwidth users in NZ. While I do not personally wish to carry any particular flame for Telecom NZ, I do know that Peter Jackson has had very good co-operation in having his on and off shore needs for very large bandwidth met by them (no doubt at a cost!). I personally believe there are concerns about local loop issues in NZ that need addressing but I have no concerns about national or international infrastructure where there is abundant competitive pressure and opportunity. The Internet in NZ has (& is) expanded (ing) very quickly. NZ has one of the top 10 Internet penetrations in the world (ahead of Australia, all of middle and southern Europe and miles ahead of Korea and the rest of Asia). There are issues about e-commerce development in NZ, certainly, if the Ernst Young report from early this year is to be believed. I am also very concerned about the apparent denigration of the need to develop and focus on post industrial economic models for NZ (ie the knowledge economy) by both politicians and media commentators in the current election campaign. But, Josh, if you really have a concern it has to be better directed and expressed than the comments you make in your post. Frank March > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Bailey [SMTP:josh(a)ascend.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 1999 13:09 > To: Roger De Salis > Cc: isocnz-members(a)isocnz.org.nz; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999] > > > On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Roger De Salis wrote: > > > This country needs to build a very high speed, low cost communications > > network with Universal access in the same way that it needed to build > > railways in the last century, and roads and airports in this. > > It's becoming increasingly embarrassing being a New Zealander > internationally - just last week I tripped over a Cisco 675 being > installed in a pizza parlour on Telegraph, right next to Berkeley > university - even the homeless here "browse the 'Net." In South-East China > it used to cost $30K/US a month for a 64K circuit and you were lucky if it > stood up for a few days at a time - now there are bright shiny new NAPs > built on literally dirt floors that put New Zealand's to shame. I asked > Korea Telecom's 'Net operations manager once where his overseas feeds came > in, and he nonchanantly indicated an *aisle* of 10-15 Cisco 7513s > allocated just for that purpose. > > What other way can I say it? I turn my back on my country! > > New Zealand isn't interested in playing. Reliable and capacious Internet > access is two steps forward, one step back with a wobble for good measure > between steps. Culturally New Zealanders do not take the Internet > seriously. It is very clear from the outside looking in that NZ > politicians reflect the attitudes of their majorities quite accurately. > > In summarising and following on from your point Roger - it seems the only > way to get Powers To Be to listen is to walk out. Like other people of my > generation/age group/ambitions/industry, I can't wait for my country to > catch up with my future. > > -- > Josh Bailey (mailto:joshbailey(a)lucent.com) > lucent->ins->software->alameda[CA] > > --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999]
by Warwick Glendenning 23 Nov '99

23 Nov '99

but at least we don't have nukes... -----Original Message----- From: Josh Bailey [mailto:josh(a)ascend.com] Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 1999 13:09 To: Roger De Salis Cc: isocnz-members(a)isocnz.org.nz; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999] On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Roger De Salis wrote: > This country needs to build a very high speed, low cost communications > network with Universal access in the same way that it needed to build > railways in the last century, and roads and airports in this. It's becoming increasingly embarrassing being a New Zealander internationally - just last week I tripped over a Cisco 675 being installed in a pizza parlour on Telegraph, right next to Berkeley university - even the homeless here "browse the 'Net." In South-East China it used to cost $30K/US a month for a 64K circuit and you were lucky if it stood up for a few days at a time - now there are bright shiny new NAPs built on literally dirt floors that put New Zealand's to shame. I asked Korea Telecom's 'Net operations manager once where his overseas feeds came in, and he nonchanantly indicated an *aisle* of 10-15 Cisco 7513s allocated just for that purpose. What other way can I say it? I turn my back on my country! New Zealand isn't interested in playing. Reliable and capacious Internet access is two steps forward, one step back with a wobble for good measure between steps. Culturally New Zealanders do not take the Internet seriously. It is very clear from the outside looking in that NZ politicians reflect the attitudes of their majorities quite accurately. In summarising and following on from your point Roger - it seems the only way to get Powers To Be to listen is to walk out. Like other people of my generation/age group/ambitions/industry, I can't wait for my country to catch up with my future. -- Josh Bailey (mailto:joshbailey(a)lucent.com) lucent->ins->software->alameda[CA] --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999]
by Warwick Glendenning 23 Nov '99

23 Nov '99

Seriously I think your message was good wake up call to us involved in networking in NZ. -----Original Message----- From: Josh Bailey [mailto:josh(a)ascend.com] Sent: Wednesday, 24 November 1999 13:34 To: Warwick Glendenning Cc: Roger De Salis; isocnz-members(a)isocnz.org.nz; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999] On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Warwick Glendenning wrote: > but at least we don't have nukes... Couldn't tell if there was a smiley there. :-) Nonetheless, we have have the Internet, nukes, and all the rest here to stay. I don't think ignoring any of them/it is the world's greatest strategy for survival.... -- Josh Bailey (mailto:joshbailey(a)lucent.com) lucent->ins->software->alameda[CA] --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Video Broadcast
by Richard Naylor 16 Nov '99

16 Nov '99

We have been advised by the Reserve Bank that the Governor, Don Brash will make a major announcement on Wednesday 17 Nov at 0900. They will be offering this via a streaming server at RBNZ and are concerned about the impact of possible traffic increases on the Internet. Their Corporate Affairs people have estimated that something between 200 and 800 clients MAY view it. Each client will be approx 28kbps stream. Routers on CityLink/WIX may struggle under the load. CityLink will install a temporary 100mbps link for the occassion, along with a WIX router, so that traffic gets passed directly to as many clients as possible. Is any WIX ISP interested in offering international traffic (and IP numbers to go behind the router) for the occassion ? Richard richard.naylor(a)citylink.co.nz This mail message contains information that is confidential and which may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or copy this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and erase this mail. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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0867 Access to Internet
by Nevil Brownlee 11 Nov '99

11 Nov '99

Dear Mr Williamson: This week I have been in America at an Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) meeting. IETF meetings bring together around 2000 technical people who are working together to develop and improve the global Internet. Among them are people from most of the world's telecommunications companies, which gives me a very good chance to talk to them and find out how telephone services work in other countries. I have taken the opportunity to canvas opinion on Telecom New Zealand's 0867 service for Internet access from the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN). Everyone has responded with open-mouthed astonishment to the idea that a single company could actually do this, and remark that "it wouldn't be legal in any other country." The effect of this service is to force ISP's to use Telecom to provide PSTN connection services for them, or to use another provider with whom Telecom has an '0867 agreement.' I fail to understand why you, as Minister of Communications, are prepared to allow any one company to exercise such a high degree of control over public access to the Internet in New Zealand. Would you please let me know how you intend to correct this anomoly if you continue to be New Zealand's Minister of Telecommunications? Yours sincerely, (Dr.) Nevil Brownlee +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Nevil Brownlee Director, Technology Development | | Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x8941 ITSS, The University of Auckland | | FAX: +64 9 373 7021 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand | +---------------------------------------------------------------------L --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: Wee query about clear :)
by Arron Scott 11 Nov '99

11 Nov '99

Joe's point about Merit is where this get's interesting to me. Obviously, WIX and APE should move to a Arbitrated network in my opinion, if you are providing the route server, then you provide the only rational filtering point. On the issue of running the database though, this data may well reach beyond the realm of WIX and APE and their customers, for instance NetGate could use it to Clear directly etc. Wouldn't it be nice if we could trust that ISOCNZ and DomaiNZ could provide a useful cost-effective and more regionally acurate alternative to Merit !!! Well, I'm allowed to dream aren't I !!! Arron Scott Telecom NZ On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Joe Abley wrote: > On Wed, Nov 10, 1999 at 10:30:59AM +1300, Simon Blake wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Jamie Clark wrote: > > > > > WIX has obviously worked well without filters so far. > > > > It comes and goes. Generally, it works fine, and that's probably a > > reflection on the stability of the NZ net, or at least, the bit that peers > > in wellington. In general, it's changes (additions of new peers) that can > > cause temporary hiccups (Actrix advertising 4000 prefixes yesterday being > > a good example). > > Originally, there was only one peering point, in Hamilton. It used > OSPF, which you couldn't filter, but that was generally ok because it > was more important to connect people to the exchange quickly and > easily than it was to worry about filtering problems. When your > only route out is through the exchange, you don't necessarily need > to worry much about filtering. > > Now there are three exchanges as well as private peering links in > the network, some operators have a choice of as many as six routes > for their domestic traffic to take as it leaves their network. This > requires some traffic engineering that previously was not particularly > necessary. > > The proliferation of domestic peering also means that finger trouble > at one particular operator now has (in some cases) six times as many > ways to cause problems for other operators, in a manner that is quite > possibly six times harder to debug. > > All this adds up to the fact that when Angry Customer calls up to > find out why his Angry Customer can't talk to someone else's Angry > Customer, you need some idea of how things _ought_ to look before > you can figure out what has broken. > > Publishing route policy makes that easier. It also makes it easier > to filter with some confidence, which is also a good thing. If > Atrix release 4000 prefixes into the network, and you pick them > up and trust them, then it's your fault for not filtering. Don't > yell at Actrix :) > > The tools required to set up and run an RPSL registry are all freely > available, but it _is_ something that needs to be set up professionally > and run as such, in my opinion. A flaky database which contains out-of- > date information because people can't update it is probably worse than > no database at all. > > Merit now charge US$200/year to keep records in their database. In the > absense of a similar facility elsewhere (e.g. in NZ) that is as stable > as Merit's, I would say that was good value for money. > > > My policy at the moment tends to vary, depending on the customer. If the > > peer is an ISP (ie, if they have their own ASN), then I assume they know > > what they're doing, > > You missed out the ":)" > > > and I don't filter incoming or outgoing updates, > > unless requested by the peer. > > Warning! Warning! > > > Joe > --------- > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog > --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: Wee query about clear :) (fwd)
by Simon Blake 10 Nov '99

10 Nov '99

Hi all (bringing a conversation between Jamie Clark and yours truly out into the light) On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Jamie Clark wrote: > Simon, > > On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Simon Blake wrote: > > > > Any change in your policy of not publishing a route policy? :) > > > > "policy" is a bit strong :-). It has always been my intent to publish a > > No offence intended. and absolutely none taken. > > route policy, but time is pressing, and Clear are the only ISP on Citylink > > that consistantly ask for same. Everytime I sit down to learn what's > > involved and get a policy loaded, something else crops up that appears > > more urgent. :-( I'm happy to try and bump it up the priority list, if it > > will encourage more ISP's to peer. > > WIX has obviously worked well without filters so far. It comes and goes. Generally, it works fine, and that's probably a reflection on the stability of the NZ net, or at least, the bit that peers in wellington. In general, it's changes (additions of new peers) that can cause temporary hiccups (Actrix advertising 4000 prefixes yesterday being a good example). > It is certainly tempting to forgo the safety measures and peer anyway > - however I suspect that some day it will become necessary to have the > WIX route policy in some form of database. (?) maybe, perhaps. Absolutely, especially as WIX rises in importance as a major peering point in NZ, rather than as a "backup" peering point, which has been it's role until now. > IMHO it is a potential security risk if you cannot control which routes > you choose to learn from your neighbours. It would be possible for a WIX > customer with evil intentions to advertise a longer prefix into our > network and steal our customer's traffic (or any other WIX ISP's traffic > for that matter). Hmmm (evil ideas spring to mind) It may seem a bit odd, but this has been one of my pet *aims* for WIX! Contrary to popular belief, Citylink doesn't have infinite network capacity :-). Therefore, providing a mechanism where customers of ISP's can transit data directly to other customers of ISP's, without having that data split horizon through one or two ISP routers is increasingly desirable. That's why we have a setup where a little Citylink customer with a /28 from their ISP and no ASN can still peer with the route server and exchange data directly with other Citylink users. > It would not be sufficient for us to deny these advertisements either - as > they may very well be legitimate (multihoming). Having said that (that I think allowing small Citylink customers to advertise long prefix routes directly is desirable), I'm all for restricting what the route server will accept from each client. My policy at the moment tends to vary, depending on the customer. If the peer is an ISP (ie, if they have their own ASN), then I assume they know what they're doing, and I don't filter incoming or outgoing updates, unless requested by the peer. If the peer has no ASN, then I assume that they're less clueful, and also that they're likely to have a small number of routes that change infrequently. Because those non ASN peers are much more likely to foul things up, I filter the updates I receive from them to only the routes they've told me they'll send. > Admittedly a policy database with automatic updates will not > necessarily prevent this - but at least there would be an audit trail > pointing to the offender. And that has to be a good thing. > With the current operational changes to RADB it looks like we will set up > our own database and have this mirrored by RADB. This won't happen until > next year though. The goal would be to automatically generate router BGP > configs from this database. > > If you're interested (and provided you don't do it first ;) I'm sure we > would be keen to pass on anything that might be useful. When I last looked at the RADb a few months ago, I mused that having route arbiters on WIX and/or APE might not be a bad thing, and would be a useful service for Citylink to provide in it's capacity as "neutral peering provider to the stars" :-). Seeing that Merit are planning to charge US$200 per year leads me to believe that it's an idea who's time may have come. Comments? Cheers Si --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Telstra NZ live on the APE
by Joe Abley 10 Nov '99

10 Nov '99

Hi all, A few minutes ago Telstra NZ exchanged its first routes with CLEAR and Plain Communications over the APE. The peering relationships are currently in test, and we expect a stable policy to be in place on the routers early next week. Many thanks to Phil Groom for doing most of the work, Chris Wedgwood and Matthew Grant for being available to peer at the drop of a hat, and Ben Martel for being generally a handy man to know. For future reference, Telstra NZ's Sky Tower router is numbered 192.203.154.32 on the exchange subnet, and has a clean 100M back to the data centre in Queen Street over dark fibre, backed up with DMR. Telstra are announcing routes from AS4763. Full route policy will be published shortly, probably in the RADB. Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Two new ISP's on WIX
by Simon Blake 08 Nov '99

08 Nov '99

Hi all Just a quick note - late last week XTRA joined WIX, and as of a few minutes ago IHUG is peering with the route server. By my reckoning, that makes 15 ISP's on Citylink, of which 14 are using WIX to peer in some fashion. Cheers Si --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 07 Nov '99

07 Nov '99

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has neither a king, a president nor a formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. (At last count the list had a little over one 110 subscribers, with the count growing slightly each month.) The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations (nor the administrator) is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ To search the archive, see http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/search.html (and remember to select nznog). Subscribing to the List To subscribe to the NZNOG list, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz, where the body of the message reads subscribe nznog There are at present no restrictions on who may subscribe to the list, or even on who may post to the list. Digest Mailing List If you don't wish to receive postings as they are sent, you can instead subscribe to the nznog-digest mailiing list, on which all postings are sent out in a single "digest" every couple of days. Other Activities NZNOG does not at present have other regular activities than this mailing list, though some Auckland subscribers have been known to meet over beer. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins -- Donald Neal | HTTP is everywhere. It could not be so Service Platforms | pervasive without being good. Centralised Maintain and Support | Therefore, HTTP is good. Telecom NZ Ltd | - RFC2324 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Connections to APE (plus changes)
by Richard Naylor 01 Nov '99

01 Nov '99

In the next week or so the 2 switches at APE will be replaced with a more capable Cisco switch, through the generosity of Cisco NZ. While this is taking place there will be a smal outage on the APE switch. Users will notice an outage of less than 1 minute while the new switch learns mac addresses etc. At the same time, cablers will be on site and available to connect up any parties interested in joining the exchange. Prospective users whose external connectivity has yet to arrive, can still be connected while the cabling is taking place - its easier for the installers to pull a bundle at one time. If you are interested in having cable put in place for a future connection, please contact me in the next week. thanks - rich richard.naylor(a)citylink.co.nz This mail message contains information that is confidential and which may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or copy this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and erase this mail. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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web page with APE stuff on it
by Joe Abley 01 Nov '99

01 Nov '99

I thought it might be good to have some info about APE on a web page somewhere. So I threw this together: http://www.patho.gen.nz/ape/ It almost certainly contains at least _some_ lies; please let me know what they are (or, if you don't care, I'll just carry on spreading them :) Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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WHOIS/Zone Transfer Policy
by John Vorstermans 26 Oct '99

26 Oct '99

Hi. The revised draft of the WHOIS and Zone Transfer policies are now available at: http://www.isocnz.org.nz/whoisdraft231099.html http://www.isocnz.org.nz/zfdraft231099.html Any comment or feedback are welcome. The earlier drafts are still available at: http://www.isocnz.org.nz/zfdraft1099.html http://www.isocnz.org.nz/whoisdraft1099.html Regards John Vorstermans Technical Committee ISOCNZ -- John Vorstermans || We are what we repeatedly do. Technical Manager || - Aristotle Actrix Networks --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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rata.vuw.ac.nz outage
by Richard Stevenson 23 Oct '99

23 Oct '99

Hi all I figured that you may all want to know that rata.vuw.ac.nz, one of the secondary nameservers for the nz ccTLD, will be out of service for an undetermined period of time tomorrow evening (Saturday 23 October 1999). As part of our Y2K preparations, management here has decided that all of our core systems should be shut down, powered off, left to cool, and then restarted, to see what breaks. This will all happen tomorrow night. The shutdown and startup procedures will be carried out by unqualified staff (i.e. not even Unix-literate) as an experiment in system documentation standards. I hope to see you all on the other side. Regards Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Richard Stevenson Systems Engineer, Information Technology Services Victoria University of Wellington Phone: +64 4 4635051 Fax: +64 4 4635552 Being a Unix system administrator is like being a tech in a biological warfare laboratory, except that none of the substances are labeled consistently, any of the compounds are just as likely to kill you by themselves as they are when mixed with one another, and it is never clear what distinction is made between a catastrophic failure in the lab and a successful test in the field. (--M. Tiemann) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: rata.vuw.ac.nz outage
by Mark Davies 21 Oct '99

21 Oct '99

From: Joe Abley <jabley(a)patho.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:41:35 +1300 > Nice to have some warning on this. However, 24 hours is a little > slim for an event that will take out 1/6 of all recursive lookups > on nz names "for an undetermined period", isn't it? Well I would have given you more warning but when I first heard they were going to do this and queried it I misread the answer they gave me to say that rata wouldn't be included so Richards message was a little surprise to me as well. Rata is intended to be the last machine down and the first up so hopefully the disruption should be quite short. mark --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: [ISOCNZ-L] Re: zdraft1099.html (DRAFT ISOCNZ Zone Transfer P
by Mark Harris 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

Joe, Not to steal his thunder, but John V. has indicated to the Council that he had received some good feedback from the lists and email which is going to require a redraft of both policies to include some of the suggestions and rewordings. He also said that the Technical Committee is meeting later this week to consider these changes and he hopes to have something final after that. We don't want this to go on forever, so I imagine RSN :-) Cheers Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Abley [SMTP:jabley(a)patho.gen.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:44 AM > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; isocnz-l(a)isocnz.org.nz > Subject: Re: [ISOCNZ-L] Re: zdraft1099.html (DRAFT ISOCNZ Zone > Transfer P > > It seems that a reasonable amount of feedback has been provided now... > When can we expect revised draft policies to be made available? > > > Joe > > - > To subscribe/unsubscribe to the isocnz-l mailing list send a message > to majordomo(a)isocnz.org.nz with the keyword subscribe or unsubscribe > as the message plus the list name i.e. unsubscribe isocnz-l --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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zdraft1099.html (DRAFT ISOCNZ Zone Transfer Policy)
by Joe Abley 18 Oct '99

18 Oct '99

John, Some feedback for you. Background A primary name server is a name server that gets the data for its zones from local files. Changes to a zone, such as adding domains or hosts, are done at the Primary Name Server. A secondary name server gets the data for its zones from another name server across the network which is authoritative for that zone. The processes of obtaining this zone information (that is the database file) across the network is referred to as a zone transfer. Since bind 8 I believe the nomenclature that has been widely adopted is a "master" nameserver (corresponding to a master zone configured on that host) and multiple "slave" nameservers which keep their copies of the zone up-to-date using zone transfers. Probably makes sense to make use of the current terminology. Zone Transfers will be allowed provided: [...] I think that there are numerous reasons to perform a zone transfer which are not covered here, which would be consistent with the privacy act provision in point 2. It seems to me that the list is unnecessarily restrictive in presuming to know all the reasons an operator might have for performing a zone transfer. I also think that there is nothing wrong with statistics gathering. Understanding trends makes the network a safer place. I do not understand your earlier point that data for statistical analysis would be available on the web, but not by zone transfer... Perhaps I misunderstood it. I would rephrase point (3) to be something like: that it is not for the purpose of allowing, enabling or otherwise supporting the transmission of mass unsolicitited, commercial advertising or solicitatious e-mail. I would also make point (4) a little more general, and allow zone transfers to facilitate "operational network engineering". Is it reasonable for a request not to contain a detailed description of the reason for wanting to perform a zone transfer? What is a reasonable request? Is the idea of this policy to be prepared in the event that a flagrant misuse of the zone data occurs? If so, I think it's a good idea. If the idea is to implement an immediate set of restrictions on zone transfers, and to administer zone transfer access control (including all associated adds, moves and changes) for all secondary nameservers, then I remain slightly dubious :) Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Draft WHOIS and Zone Transfer Policies
by John Vorstermans 16 Oct '99

16 Oct '99

Greetings. The ISOCNZ Technical Committee has prepared two draft policies. 1. Directing Domainz to implement a WHOIS server. http://www.isocnz.org.nz/whoisdraft1099.html 2. A policy on Zone Transfers. http://www.isocnz.org.nz/zfdraft1099.html I hope to be able to ask the council to vote on these next week. Any comments or submissions to these draft proposals would of course be most welcome. If you wish to make a submission please email to john(a)actrix.co.nz These drafts have also been sent to the ISOCNZ members mailing list for comment. Regards John -- John Vorstermans || We are what we repeatedly do. Technical Manager || - Aristotle Actrix Networks --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: whoisdraft1099.html (DRAFT WHOIS SERVER POLICY)
by Joe Abley 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

John, More feedback, different draft. An WHOIS server is the Internet Standard way of access details from, in our case, the .nz database. "a" whois server, surely :) * It is a separate service. Separate from what? * It is currently provided by all major Name Service organisations, e.g. Ripe and APNIC etc. RIPE and APNIC aren't actually name service organisations; they're regional registries for ASN and IP number allocations. You might use CRSNIC, NSI, Nominet, etc if you're looking for examples of registries' and registrars' use of whois. WHOIS Policy * That NZIRL be required to put in place a standard WHOIS server on the .nz database. What needs to be carefully specified is the formatting of queries and responses to the whois service. There are a number of different "standard" query definitions and response formats currently in use amongst different registries. It would make sense for Domainz/ISOCNZ to approach the heavier users of their existing services and consult as to the query and response formats that are required. The Data in ISOCNZ WHOIS database is provided by NZIRL for information purposes, and to assist persons in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration record. NZIRL does not guarantee its accuracy. NIRL should guarantee that the response returned to a query is consistent with the data stored by Domainz at the time of the query. (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that apply to NZIRL (or its systems). I'm not sure what this means. What does it mean? ISOCNZ reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. I would imagine that you should qualify this by specifying how changes to the policy will be notified to users of the whois service. You might also refer to RFC812, which specifies nicname/whois. It's a little old (it refers to NCP/TCP!) but the core protocol is described there, such as it is. Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: [ISOCNZ-Members] Draft WHOIS Policy
by David Harpham 15 Oct '99

15 Oct '99

ISOCNZ technical committee, Thanks very much for the opportunity to comment (and hopefully influence) the Zone transfer and Whois policies, *before having the council vote on them.* DRAFT ZONE TRANSFER POLICY (http://www.isocnz.org.nz/zfdraft1099.html) ========================================================== Great to see that "No reasonable request shall be refused." A/ In item 3. it explicitly lists "simply for the gathering of statistical analysis" as being undesirable. Surely we can remove this phrase. The no spam bit I endorse but no statistics is a bit closed shop isn't it.? B/ In item 3 it provides for 'private name' servers. What is the objection to (shadow) public but non authoritative name servers. Surely these are OK in an open environment.? An ISP may want to improve response times for it's customers and help unload the official authoritative name servers, this would help robustness with perhaps a greater diversity of machines and operators. If it is OK for Auckland University then why not an ISP? DRAFT WHOIS POLICY (http://www.isocnz.org.nz/whoisdraft1099.html) ==================================================== Starts off well pointing out the expectation that "It is used generally by system administrators." A/ Surely to be useful for an ISP administrator, the ISP needs to be able to be sure that it is the current authoritative contents of the official database but instead we have "NZIRL does not guarantee its accuracy". Also I do not believe that ISOCNZ policy should include a disclaimer on behalf of NZIRL, I think people need to be clear which hat is being worn when they write this. B/ Surely to be useful to ISP administrators, one of the major differences in using a Whois instead of a web page is that it *CAN* be used for efficient automated definitive lookups etc. Why specifically ""under no circumstances will you use this Data to ...enable high volume, automated, electronic processes ", I thought that was largely what the objective was. OVERALL ========= If we make the above changes (open statistics gathering, open shadow name servers, accuracy of whois with efficient automation) we might allow for ISP's wanting to provide equivalent or alternative services to the registry in an efficient manor, without them it looks very centralist. Cheers David Harpham david(a)harpham.co.nz --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Petition for .nz registry WHOIS server
by 2Day Operations 11 Oct '99

11 Oct '99

Thanks to those folk who took the time to complete a petition and send it on to us. I have today couriered them to the secretary of ISOCNZ. Lets see if we can get a WHOIS server in place before their new Internet foundation gets all the millions in profit from DOMAINZ. Peter Mott Chief Enthusiast 2DAY INTERNET LIMITED -/- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Looking for Web servers to ping - network research
by Joerg Micheel 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

Dear NZnoggers, there are currently some research projects going on which try to measure the health and state of the Internet on a global and local scale. University of Waikato Computer Science is hosting a skitter server for CAIDA, the UCSD-based Internet Research Corporation. The skitter project involves pinging (ICMP traffic) a larger number of "interesting" hosts on the Internet and drawing some conclusions about reachability, network load, performance etc. These people are expanding their scope and would like to find new destinations they could ping on a regular basis. Web servers are of high interest. If you are a network administrator, web administrator etc, who is willing to support such research (and potentially receive valuable information from active network measurements), please get back to me as soon as possible. Thank you for your time. Joerg Micheel ----- Forwarded message from Tracie Monk <tmonk(a)caida.org> ----- We might add that for these measurements, web server are preferred targets. Please do not include any routers or workstations in your lists of additions to the destination lists. We will add everyone's additions next week, then distribute a new dataset soon after. Thanks for your help. Tracie Dear Skitter-Asia Collaborators, We have now collected sufficient data using our initial Skitter destination list that we can now entertain making additions to the list. If you have a suggestions please provide us with the destination host name and IP address. We would prefer candidates with diverse characteristics. For example, we prefer to have examples from commercial, education, non-profit, network, and government sectors. Also destinations from different geographical locations are of interest. Typically we monitor only one host per domain name (i.e. caida.org, san.rr.com,) but exceptions are made for interesting destinations. Please send your suggestions to me along with any additional information you can provide. Peace, Edouard -------------------- Edouard Lagache, PhD elagache(a)caida.org phone (858) 534-5045 fax (858) 822-0861 ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz> Waikato Applied Network Dynamics Phone: +64 7 8384794 The University of Waikato, SCMS Fax: +64 7 8384155 Private Bag 3105 Pager: +64 868 38222 Hamilton, New Zealand Plan: TINE and the DAG's --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 07 Oct '99

07 Oct '99

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has neither a king, a president nor a formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. (At last count the list had a little over one hundred subscribers, with the count growing slightly each month.) The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations (nor the administrator) is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ To search the archive, see http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/search.html (and remember to select nznog). Subscribing to the List To subscribe to the NZNOG list, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz, where the body of the message reads subscribe nznog There are at present no restrictions on who may subscribe to the list, or even on who may post to the list. Digest Mailing List If you don't wish to receive postings as they are sent, you can instead subscribe to the nznog-digest mailiing list, on which all postings are sent out in a single "digest" every couple of days. Other Activities NZNOG does not at present have other regular activities than this mailing list, though some Auckland subscribers have been known to meet over beer. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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singlemode/multimode media converters
by Joe Abley 06 Oct '99

06 Oct '99

Noggers, Anybody have any good ideas where I can get my hands on two singlemode/ multimode converters, suitable for clocking at 155M with ATM? SDH framing, if that makes a difference. Needed in Auckland pretty urgently... Any pointers appreciated. Preferred SC connectors on the multimode side, ST on the singlemode. Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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