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Re: NZGate Addressing Within New Zealand
by 2Day Chief Enthusiast 29 Oct '98

29 Oct '98

Interim programme below:- ++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1998 FACE TO FACE "THE INTERNET - TOOL OR TOY?" THE ISSUES: * Pornography and Other Nasties: Are the ISPs Liable? * Internet Governance: The Future of the DNS * Who Owns Netgate? Portability of IP Addresses * Ethics on the Internet * Does the Internet Need Government? * ThinkQuest: Announcing ISOCNZ as National Partner for ThinkQuest International Followed by: * ISOCNZ Annual General Meeting WHERE: (e)Vision House, 282 Wakefield Street, Wellington AND: Live Broadcast** to the Altos Bar, Sky City, Auckland WHEN: Friday November 20 1998 8:30-3:30 - followed by AGM in Wellington at 4:30pm WHO: Anyone with an interest in the Hottest Issues on the Internet in 1998 ENTRY: Members: $80.00 + GST Non-Members: $130 + GST ** Conference Only regards Peter Mott Chief Enthusiast 2Day Internet Limited http://www.2day.net.nz -/- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGate Addressing Within New Zealand
by 2Day Chief Enthusiast 29 Oct '98

29 Oct '98

This list is an excellent idea. Top marks to the folk who kicked it off >Three weeks ago Joe Abley suggested to this list an approach to the >elimination of addresses issued in small units by NZGate. His proposal is >still available at >http://www.patho.gen.nz/~jabley/nznumber.txt . Are list participants aware ISOCNZ is planning a forum discussion on this topic in Wellington on Nov 20 prior to their AGM? Sounds like an opportunity for industry players to get together and share views. regards Peter Mott Chief Enthusiast 2Day Internet Limited http://www.2day.net.nz -/- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZGate Addressing Within New Zealand
by Robert Gray 29 Oct '98

29 Oct '98

Peter Mott wrote today: > Are list participants aware ISOCNZ is planning a forum discussion > on this topic in Wellington on Nov 20 prior to their AGM? This too is an excellent idea, is there a time set and do we need to register or anything? Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz <mailto:bobg(a)clearfield.co.nz> http://www.clearview.co.nz/ <http://www.clearview.co.nz/> Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGate Addressing Within New Zealand
by 2Day Chief Enthusiast 29 Oct '98

29 Oct '98

>As someone who is almost certainly more familiar with ISOCNZ than I am, >what are your views? How do you see ISOCNZ participating or adding value >to this issue? My reply may be off topic, but you did ask the question, so here goes ... Today, I would say ISOCNZ is not in a very good position to add value to this issue or any other industry specific issue which may come along. I say that because, whilst ISOCNZ has the best intentions in the world, it has very view internet providers actively participating, and has a council which addresses issues and makes decisions on things they consider important to them at the time. It is therefore unlikely they can represent our industry particularly well for the time being. The move to run a forum on issues such as censorhip, ip addressing, and domain registration is a clear signal they want industry to participate. We need to wake up and smell the coffee. I think the Internet provider industry needs to be able to speak with a single voice. We can can achieve this by:- a) seizing the opportunity to grow ISOCNZ by joining up real quick or b) forming our own industry association sooner rather than later Whether NZNOG is a part of, or drives this initiative is a question for us all, but I suggest that action is required. Whilst the IP addressing issue can be seen in the context of engineering stuff for industry players to sort and agree on, there are things happening in much higher places than most of us care to live, the outcome of which may be industry loosing some ability to manage itself. The question of IP management is as vexed an argument as domain name management, except the stakes are much higher. As things evolve, the respect held for RFC's will erode, and so we will need to look for other ways to ensure issues which concern participants of this list can be addressed. regards Peter Mott Chief Enthusiast 2Day Internet Limited http://www.2day.net.nz -/- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZGate Addressing Within New Zealand
by Frank March 29 Oct '98

29 Oct '98

This issue is of fundamental interest to anyone concerned with the commercial integrity and long term stability of the Internet in New Zealand. Therefore it a matter of concern to me in the policy capacity recognised in the sig below. Wearing a different hat, my association with ISOCNZ, there is a need for someone *representative of the Internet community as a whole* to take on responsibility for ensuring that the Internet is a stable and reliable platform for e commerce. Although ISOCNZ is not there yet, it does have that potential (see for example, David Farrar's vision statement http://www.dpf.ac.nz/isocnz/vision.htm; which I by and large support) Ideologically and practically, there is strong disinterest on the part of the Government to regulate any matter relating to the Internet. But I have been lead to believe that the IP address structure is of sufficient concern that, if there was any suggestion that the NZgate 'share' of the IP address space was at risk of monopoly 'capture' by any group which was not representative of the interests of the Internet users as a whole, the Government might take another look. I will be developing some of this at the Face to Face meeting on 20 November. So my comment on the question raised by Joe's most recent post, reproduced in full below is: who else, other than ISOCNZ? And if this is not 'value add' what would be of greater importance? This is also not a loaded question. :) Of course, we are looking at an operational issue. Although, in fact, we are looking at policy underlying an operational issue; that is governance, actually. Frank March Specialist Advisor IT Policy Group, Ministry of Commerce, PO Box 1473, Wellington, New Zealand Telephone: +64 4 474 2908; Fax: +64 4 473 7010 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Abley [SMTP:jabley(a)clear.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 12:32 PM > To: 2Day Chief Enthusiast; Donald Neal; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: NZGate Addressing Within New Zealand > > On Fri, Oct 30, 1998 at 12:01:17PM +1300, 2Day Chief Enthusiast wrote: > > This list is an excellent idea. Top marks to the folk who kicked it off > > > > >Three weeks ago Joe Abley suggested to this list an approach to the > > >elimination of addresses issued in small units by NZGate. His proposal > is > > >still available at > > >http://www.patho.gen.nz/~jabley/nznumber.txt . > > > > Are list participants aware ISOCNZ is planning a forum discussion > > on this topic in Wellington on Nov 20 prior to their AGM? > > > > Sounds like an opportunity for industry players to get together and > share > > views. > > Although there are commercial issues surrounding the use of NZGATE numbers > in networks today, the underlying motive for reform is the health of the > network - specifically, the advertisement of long-prefix routes. This > aspect > is clearly an operational issue, rather than one of governance -- and has > its roots in _global_ operational policy, rather than that of just NZ. > > As someone who is almost certainly more familiar with ISOCNZ than I am, > what are your views? How do you see ISOCNZ participating or adding value > to this issue? > > This isn't a loaded question :) I'm just interested. > > > Joe > > -- > Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008 > Network Architect, CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ > > --------- > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGate Addressing Within New Zealand
by Donald Neal 29 Oct '98

29 Oct '98

Three weeks ago Joe Abley suggested to this list an approach to the elimination of addresses issued in small units by NZGate. His proposal is still available at http://www.patho.gen.nz/~jabley/nznumber.txt . Joe, do you have any plans to revise your proposal in the light of feedback you've seen since? - Donald Neal --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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NZNOG [off-topic]
by Joe Abley 27 Oct '98

27 Oct '98

Hi all, This is off-topic, although (I hope) of sufficient interest that I don't get engulfed in anti-spam hate-mail :) A list has been in operation for some time now, hosted by the University of Waikato, intended as an open forum for the discussion of operational issues between network operators in New Zealand. The list's membership is not (currently) completely representative of all network operators in NZ, but currently has subscribers from (in the order that people have subscribed): CLEAR, NetGate, Netlink, ICONZ, Waikato University, Telecom NZ, Iprolink, National Library, Xtra, CityLink, OnTheNet, Paradise.Net, Saturn, Voyager, Ascend, Cisco, IHUG, Plain Communications, Tasman Solutions, Clearview, Globe Net, the Ministry of Commerce, Internet Exchange and Victoria University of Wellington. The list has proved useful for announcing transient network issues affecting other providers, arranging peering between networks, and more recently for discussions relating to IP numbering in New Zealand. This note is really just an attempt to widen the membership of the list, in case there are network operators who are not aware of it. A brief description of the list follows, courtesy of Donald Neal of Telecom NZ. Thank you for your time! Now - back to the main feature. --------- >From: Donald Neal <D1NC(a)telecom.co.nz> Subject: The New Zealand Network Operators' Group Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:10:27 +1200 The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has neither a king, a president nor a formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations (nor the administrator) is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1.Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 3.Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 4.Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 5.Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 6.Postings of political, philosophical, and legal nature are discouraged. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ To search the archive, see http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/search.html (and remember to select nznog). Digest Mailing List If you don't wish to receive postings as they are sent, you can instead subscribe to the nznog-digest mailiing list, on which all postings are sent out in a single "digest" every couple of days. Other Activities NZNOG does not at present have other regular activities than this mailing list, though some Auckland subscribers have been known to arrange meetings over beer. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins --------- -- Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008 Network Architect, CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 27 Oct '98

27 Oct '98

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has neither a king, a president nor a formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations (nor the administrator) is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1.Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 3.Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 4.Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 5.Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 6.Postings of political, philosophical, and legal nature are discouraged. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ To search the archive, see http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/search.html (and remember to select nznog). Digest Mailing List If you don't wish to receive postings as they are sent, you can instead subscribe to the nznog-digest mailiing list, on which all postings are sent out in a single "digest" every couple of days. Other Activities NZNOG does not at present have other regular activities than this mailing list, though some Auckland subscribers have been known to arrange meetings over beer. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Arrgh! READ ME
by Joe Abley 26 Oct '98

26 Oct '98

Arron/Sandy, You people seem to be advertising an awful lot of crap to us over NZIX; the following is an example (209.155.82.18 is ftp.cdrom.com) ba1.acld#ping ftp.cdrom.com Type escape sequence to abort. Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 209.155.82.18, timeout is 2 seconds: .!!.. Success rate is 40 percent (2/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 1108/1388/1668 ms ba1.acld#show ip route 209.155.82.18 Routing entry for 209.155.82.18/32 Known via "ospf 1", distance 110, metric 5000 Tag 9999, type extern 2, forward metric 100 Redistributing via ospf 1 Last update from 203.97.1.70 on ATM5/0.1, 1d00h ago Routing Descriptor Blocks: * 203.97.1.70, from 203.97.1.82, 1d00h ago, via ATM5/0.1 Route metric is 5000, traffic share count is 1 ba1.acld#traceroute 209.155.82.18 Type escape sequence to abort. Tracing the route to wcarchive.cdrom.com (209.155.82.18) 1 ba1-ser0-15.hmtn.clix.net.nz (203.97.1.70) 32 msec 12 msec 16 msec 2 ngthn1-b1.nzix.waikato.ac.nz (140.200.128.9) [AS 681] 136 msec 20 msec 28 msec 3 s6-1.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.125) [AS 4648] 36 msec 32 msec 28 msec 4 f0-0.akbr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.58) [AS 4648] 2144 msec * * 5 This seems bad! Anybody else seeing this? I will be blocking OSPF updates from NetGate over NZIX very shortly... Any feedback or confirmation from anybody else would be most welcome. Joe -- Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008 Network Architect, CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Fw: Arrgh! READ ME
by Tony Wicks 25 Oct '98

25 Oct '98

Well, thats what you get for working at 10:30pm on a public holiday !.. hold on, so am I..... damn.... -----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> To: arrons(a)netgate.net.nz <arrons(a)netgate.net.nz>; s.davidson(a)netgate.net.nz <s.davidson(a)netgate.net.nz> Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Date: Monday, 26 October 1998 22:43 Subject: Re: Arrgh! READ ME >Well... > >I know that I'm talking to myself here :) but it seems like I overreacted >somewhat; on closer examination, the only erroneous route I can find from >140.200.128.9 is for 209.155.82.18/32. I can't find anything else that >shouldn't be there. > >It was just the first thing I tried, and so I assumed the worst :( > >209.155/16 is definitely operated by CRL though, and so the host route >for 209.155.82.18/32 _is_ bogus. > >Many apologies for casting aspersions on NetGate's OSPF speaker! > >Yours in drugs, > > >Joe > >-- >Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008 >Network Architect, CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ > >--------- >To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >where the body of your message reads: >unsubscribe nznog > --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: ?
by Michael Newbery 22 Oct '98

22 Oct '98

Seems good to me. Is item 2 there explicitly to provide for the "it's Friday, let's go to the pub" postings? -- Michael Newbery Technology Manager Saturn Communications Tel: +64-4-915 5102 Mobile:021-642 957 Fax:+64-4-939 5100 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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None
by Donald Neal 21 Oct '98

21 Oct '98

NZNOG Subscribers, Below is a suggested Acceptable Use Policy, based on the one for the North American Network Operators' Group mailing list which I posted last week. I believe it accurately reflects the use of this list, but I'd like to hear any comments on it. Donald Neal NZNOG list owner/administrator/muggins ---------- Proposed Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1.Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 3.Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 4.Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 5.Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 6.Postings of political, philosophical, and legal nature are discouraged. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by Robert Gray 21 Oct '98

21 Oct '98

>This is only one possible solution. This document is DRAFT. This document >does not attempt to define policy; it is merely intended to provoke some >useful discussion. I'd like to propose something of a variation to Joe's 'One Possible Solution' to the addressing issues. This is based on a little research and a selective interpretation of the following references: http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-160.html <http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-160.html> Ripe-160: Guidelines for Setting up a Local Internet Registry at the RIPE NCC [and if you don't think this is relevant take a peek at http://www.ripe.net/lir/registries/indices/NZ.html <http://www.ripe.net/lir/registries/indices/NZ.html> ] http://ftp.apnic.net/apnic/archive/apnic-001.txt <http://ftp.apnic.net/apnic/archive/apnic-001.txt> ' Local IR's are of three types: 'Service Provider', 'Enterprise' and 'National'. An Internet service provider (ISP) is an organisation that supplies Internet connectivity to its customers or users. An ISP can become a local IR by agreeing to certain conditions (see APNIC-011). A 'National' local IR's handle all requests from organisations that have no connection to the Internet at present or planned. In addition, National IRs may also delegate addresses to ISPs within a national context. 'National' IR's are often run by a consortium of ISP's as a voluntary and neutral service to the community.....' http://ftp.apnic.net/apnic/archive/apnic-011.txt <http://ftp.apnic.net/apnic/archive/apnic-011.txt> 'With respect to IP address 'ownership', service providers have the option of treating the sub-delegation of networks to customers as permanent or, if explicitly specified in the service provider's contractual agreement, temporary. It must be stressed that without a contractual agreement stating otherwise, assignment of networks to end users is always considered permanent (e.g., the 'ownership' of the network is transferred to the client).' The essence of the proposed variation is that instead of APNIC, a 'National' IR would be established in NZ (run by a consortium of ISP's as a voluntary and neutral service to the community). This 'National' IR to take over management of the NZGATE space for use as PI space for those who need it. This would not preclude any organisation obtaining space elsewhere. Clearly taking over the NZGATE space would require consent and co-operation from APNIC but with a broad based approach from NZ ISP's surely this would be possible? The following suggested changes to Joe's document are not intended to be complete and are also in draft form only. This is to give a general flavour, provide a basis for discussion and goes something like this: >2.3. Administrative control of NZGATE blocks returned to APNIC >All NZGATE-derived subnets not in use at the agreed time should be >returned to APNIC for administration. No further delegations from the >NZGATE blocks should be permitted by any NZ provider. All NZGATE-derived subnets not in use at the agreed time should be passed to the 'National' IR for administration. No further delegations from the NZGATE blocks should be permitted by any NZ provider. >2.4. Forced renumbering >No end-user network using NZGATE subnets should be obliged to renumber as >part of the normal course of their operation (but see [2.5] and [2.6]). No end-user network using PI (NZGATE) subnets should be obliged to renumber as part of the normal course of their operation (but see [2.5] and [2.6]) however an annual charge may be levied by the 'National' IR. [to act as a disincentive to retaining unused addresses and help cover costs]. >2.5. Process for extending address space delegations >Any end-user network which needs additional addresses due to growth should >be obliged to renumber with provider-based addressing in order to obtain >their larger address range. The released NZGATE addresses will be returned >to APNIC by the ISP. Any end-user network which needs additional addresses due to growth should be obliged to renumber with provider-based addressing (PA) in order to obtain their larger address range. The released PI addresses will be returned to the 'National' IR by the ISP. Any provider network which needs additional addresses due to growth should be obliged to renumber to an alternative PI range provided by the 'National' IR if a contiguous allocation cannot be provided to obtain their larger address range. >2.6. Process for managing ISP-hopping by end-user networks >Any end-user network that uses NZGATE numbers and decides to change ISPs >must renumber using provider-based addressing provided by the new ISP. The >released NZGATE addresses will be returned to APNIC by the former ISP. Any end-user network that uses PI (NZGATE) numbers and decides to change ISPs must renumber using provider-based addressing provided by the new ISP. The released PI addresses will be returned to the 'National' IR by the former ISP. >2.7. Process for managing ISP-hopping by national providers >Any national provider that uses NZGATE numbers and decides to change >global transit providers must renumber its own infrastructure using >provider-based addressing provided by the new global transit provider. >Customers of the national provider who use NZGATE numbers will not be >required to renumber (but see [2.5], [2.6]). Any national provider that uses PI (NZGATE) numbers and decides to change global transit providers will not be required to renumber (but see [2.5], [2.6]). I have retained the terms 'end user' 'national provider' and 'global transit providers' assuming I know what they mean but I think some form of definition would be in order. Constructive comments (and other responses) to the list please. Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz <mailto:bobg(a)clearfield.co.nz> http://www.clearview.co.nz/ <http://www.clearview.co.nz/> Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by craig＠laptop.iprolink.co.nz 21 Oct '98

21 Oct '98

Hi. > It would be useful to know what size blocks the major US backbone > providers see as viable entries. Currently they will accept a /24 but > I've seen numbers like /18 or /19 bandied around in the past as the size > of blocks that will be routable on the backbone for the forseeable > future. (I recall Sprint for example saying that they would support > blocks of this size.) Well Sprint only accepts /24 in historical ranges (to which the NZGATE addresses belong). Current practice seems to be to filter at the minimum allocation size for the /8's. For all new and assignments in the recent past this seems to be /19 (from all registries), for older addresses this was /24. Because of the dramatic slowdown in router table growth, there doesn't seem to be any forseeable technical reason to have to alter current practice. Should growth threaten to become unmanagable, increasing the minimum allocation size to /18 or /17 could slow growth, without having to attempt to retroactively assume a new minimum allocation size. It's difficult to retroactively try to filter out routes shorter than the minimum allocation size at the time they were issued as this results in cutting onself off from too much of the Internet. And so for commercial reasons this has not happened (except perhaps briefly) and cannot be reasonably expected to happen. I cannot find information at APNIC for what they consider to be the minimum allocation sizes for 202/8 nor 203/8 -- something we should find out and (attempt to) correct if desirable/necessary. -Craig --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by craig＠laptop.iprolink.co.nz 20 Oct '98

20 Oct '98

Hi. > Just because network addresses could be considered portable a few years ago > doesn't make it so forever - the network is changing, and best current > practices change with it. True, but if you look at best current practice, that does not including route filtering more strictly than the minimum allocation size (i believe it was tried and rejected :-), and it does not involve restrictions on portability. It's easy to argue that within the NZGATE addresses the minimum allocation size is /24. There is also a very serious danger with trying to force this non-portability aspect. It reeks of commercial and not technical motives. It looks like a way to lock up customers by making it difficult to change providers. And without a serious technical reason (like if we don't do it, no one will be able to use the Internet), it is. If i didn't know Joe better, i would have suspected this was part of the reasoning. Nevertheless, one has to look as well as be very clean on any proposal in this area -- looking or behaving like a cartel will cause serious problems. I believe we can accomplish the basic goals with different rules, rules that are fair, fit existing practices, and have little potential commercial motive. How about we use: You can't move unless the entire block allocated by Waikato was allocated to you (or else you renumber). This allows ISPs to move about freely as suggested, some companies will also be able to move, but not those who obtained their IP addresses from an ISP. This will help prevent much further fragmentation, will help prevent overlapping advertisements, and helps clarify "ownership". It would seem prudent for us to at least look at the current allocations and estimate the amount of address space assigned to ISPs and to end users. I suspect there is only a small percentage of end user blocks. And if this is the case there would be very little practical difference between this and the draft's rules. -Craig --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by craig＠laptop.iprolink.co.nz 18 Oct '98

18 Oct '98

Hi. > I took another look at this data and I see some differences. I see a lot too :-( Turns out my program for doing joins on CIDR blocks had a bug and that the inetnum's in the APNIC database couldn't always be rewritten as a single CIDR block (e.g. 202.36.149.0-202.36.153.255) which i had assumed... However, i guess after the beers on Friday this is no longer needed :-) -Craig --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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mail storm via 203.98.24.1
by Joe Abley 18 Oct '98

18 Oct '98

Hi, Someone is using 203.98.24.1 (pcombo.co.nz) to relay mail to the CLEAR Net MX hosts. Since 00:16:57 this morning there have been several hundreds of thousands of attempts to deliver mail to CLEAR Net, which have been blocked at CLEAR Net since the senders' domain is not real. Oct 17 00:16:57 fep4 sendmail[25135]: Ruleset check_mail (<hacka(a)udie.com>) rejection: 451 <hacka(a)udie.com>... Sender domain (udie.com) not found in DNS, or not compliant with section 6 of RFC822 Oct 17 00:16:57 fep4 sendmail[25135]: AAA25135: from=<hacka(a)udie.com>, size=0, class=0, pri=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, relay=pcombo.co.nz [203.98.24.1] Oct 17 00:16:57 fep3 sendmail[1621]: Ruleset check_mail (<hacka(a)udie.com>) rejection: 451 <hacka(a)udie.com>... Sender domain (udie.com) not found in DNS, or not compliant with section 6 of RFC822 Oct 17 00:16:57 fep3 sendmail[1621]: AAA01621: from=<hacka(a)udie.com>, size=0, class=0, pri=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, relay=pcombo.co.nz [203.98.24.1] The offending relay is reached from CLEAR via Xtra and onthenet: traceroute to 203.98.24.1 (203.98.24.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 router (203.97.2.225) 3.125 ms 2.839 ms 2.940 ms 2 d1.test.clear.net.nz (203.167.224.30) 26.798 ms 27.121 ms 26.944 ms 3 ba1-atm1-0-1.acld.clix.net.nz (203.167.224.1) 27.307 ms ba2-atm1-0-1.acld.clix.net.nz (203.167.224.2) 27.199 ms 27.307 ms 4 ba1-ser0-15.hmtn.clix.net.nz (203.97.1.70) 37.072 ms s3-0.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.33) 30.615 ms 29.995 ms 5 xtra.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.46) 29.765 ms ngthn1-b1.nzix.waikato.ac.nz (140.200.128.9) 34.387 ms 36.746 ms 6 192.168.200.241 (192.168.200.241) 35.184 ms 35.428 ms s6-1.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.125) 42.860 ms 7 xtra.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.46) 38.670 ms 34.878 ms 53.744 ms 8 192.168.30.18 (192.168.30.18) 65.403 ms 192.168.200.241 (192.168.200.241) 42.500 ms 192.168.30.18 (192.168.30.18) 100.988 ms 9 otn2.gw.onthenet.co.nz (210.55.215.247) 48.387 ms 72.757 ms pcombo.co.nz (203.98.24.1) 131.373 ms I have just checked 203.98.24.1 from tardis.patho.gen.nz, and it is indeed a promiscuous relay: tardis[5]% telnet pcombo.co.nz 25 Trying 203.98.24.1... Connected to pcombo.co.nz. Escape character is '^]'. 220 pcombo.co.nz ESMTP Sendmail 8.8.7/8.8.5; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:01:33 +1245 HELO blah 250 pcombo.co.nz Hello tardis.patho.gen.nz [203.97.2.226], pleased to meet you MAIL FROM:<moo(a)cow.dog.horse> 250 <moo(a)cow.dog.horse>... Sender ok RCPT TO:<jabley(a)patho.gen.nz> 250 <jabley(a)patho.gen.nz>... Recipient ok DATA 354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself From: moo(a)cow.dog.horse To: jabley(a)patho.gen.nz Subject: oh no This is an open relay . 250 KAA19201 Message accepted for delivery QUIT 221 pcombo.co.nz closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. which resulted in the following delivery attempt to tardis: Oct 17 10:05:58 tardis sendmail[21233]: KAA21233: ruleset=check_mail, arg1=<moo(a)cow.dog.horse>, relay=root(a)pcombo.co.nz [203.98.24.1], reject=501 <moo(a)cow.dog.horse>... Sender domain must exist Until it is evident that these antics have stopped, we have applied packet filters to refuse connections from 203.98.24.1 on tcp/25. We would be grateful if appropriate people at Xtra and/or onthenet could take similar action or otherwise arrange for this to stop. Joe -- Joe Abley <jabley(a)patho.gen.nz> --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: mail storm via 203.98.24.1
by Norman Burgess 18 Oct '98

18 Oct '98

Well, it was early morning Saturday that I discovered this was happening .. it is on the go again right now! Take some action please. Regards Norman Burgess ---------- > From: Joe Abley <jabley(a)patho.gen.nz> > To: soa(a)xtra.co.nz; abuse(a)xtra.co.nz; postmaster(a)xtra.co.nz; info(a)onthenet.co.nz; soa(a)onthenet.co.nz > Cc: nburgess(a)clear.net.nz; bob(a)wonderland.org.nz; olof(a)clear.net.nz; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: mail storm via 203.98.24.1 > Date: Saturday, 17 October 1998 10:23 > > Hi, > > Someone is using 203.98.24.1 (pcombo.co.nz) to relay mail to the CLEAR Net > MX hosts. Since 00:16:57 this morning there have been several hundreds of > thousands of attempts to deliver mail to CLEAR Net, which have been blocked > at CLEAR Net since the senders' domain is not real. > > Oct 17 00:16:57 fep4 sendmail[25135]: Ruleset check_mail (<hacka(a)udie.com>) > rejection: 451 <hacka(a)udie.com>... Sender domain (udie.com) not found in DNS, > or not compliant with section 6 of RFC822 > > Oct 17 00:16:57 fep4 sendmail[25135]: AAA25135: from=<hacka(a)udie.com>, > size=0, class=0, pri=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, relay=pcombo.co.nz > [203.98.24.1] > > Oct 17 00:16:57 fep3 sendmail[1621]: Ruleset check_mail (<hacka(a)udie.com>) > rejection: 451 <hacka(a)udie.com>... Sender domain (udie.com) not found in DNS, > or not compliant with section 6 of RFC822 > > Oct 17 00:16:57 fep3 sendmail[1621]: AAA01621: from=<hacka(a)udie.com>, size=0, > class=0, pri=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, relay=pcombo.co.nz [203.98.24.1] > > The offending relay is reached from CLEAR via Xtra and onthenet: > > traceroute to 203.98.24.1 (203.98.24.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets > 1 router (203.97.2.225) 3.125 ms 2.839 ms 2.940 ms > 2 d1.test.clear.net.nz (203.167.224.30) 26.798 ms 27.121 ms 26.944 ms > 3 ba1-atm1-0-1.acld.clix.net.nz (203.167.224.1) 27.307 ms ba2-atm1-0-1.acld.clix.net.nz (203.167.224.2) 27.199 ms 27.307 ms > 4 ba1-ser0-15.hmtn.clix.net.nz (203.97.1.70) 37.072 ms s3-0.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.33) 30.615 ms 29.995 ms > 5 xtra.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.46) 29.765 ms ngthn1-b1.nzix.waikato.ac.nz (140.200.128.9) 34.387 ms 36.746 ms > 6 192.168.200.241 (192.168.200.241) 35.184 ms 35.428 ms s6-1.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.125) 42.860 ms > 7 xtra.akcr1.netgate.net.nz (202.37.245.46) 38.670 ms 34.878 ms 53.744 ms > 8 192.168.30.18 (192.168.30.18) 65.403 ms 192.168.200.241 (192.168.200.241) 42.500 ms 192.168.30.18 (192.168.30.18) 100.988 ms > 9 otn2.gw.onthenet.co.nz (210.55.215.247) 48.387 ms 72.757 ms pcombo.co.nz (203.98.24.1) 131.373 ms > > I have just checked 203.98.24.1 from tardis.patho.gen.nz, and it is indeed > a promiscuous relay: > > tardis[5]% telnet pcombo.co.nz 25 > Trying 203.98.24.1... > Connected to pcombo.co.nz. > Escape character is '^]'. > 220 pcombo.co.nz ESMTP Sendmail 8.8.7/8.8.5; Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:01:33 +1245 > HELO blah > 250 pcombo.co.nz Hello tardis.patho.gen.nz [203.97.2.226], pleased to meet you > MAIL FROM:<moo(a)cow.dog.horse> > 250 <moo(a)cow.dog.horse>... Sender ok > RCPT TO:<jabley(a)patho.gen.nz> > 250 <jabley(a)patho.gen.nz>... Recipient ok > DATA > 354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself > From: moo(a)cow.dog.horse > To: jabley(a)patho.gen.nz > Subject: oh no > > This is an open relay > . > 250 KAA19201 Message accepted for delivery > QUIT > 221 pcombo.co.nz closing connection > Connection closed by foreign host. > > which resulted in the following delivery attempt to tardis: > > Oct 17 10:05:58 tardis sendmail[21233]: KAA21233: ruleset=check_mail, > arg1=<moo(a)cow.dog.horse>, relay=root(a)pcombo.co.nz [203.98.24.1], reject=501 > <moo(a)cow.dog.horse>... Sender domain must exist > > Until it is evident that these antics have stopped, we have applied packet > filters to refuse connections from 203.98.24.1 on tcp/25. > > We would be grateful if appropriate people at Xtra and/or onthenet could > take similar action or otherwise arrange for this to stop. > > > Joe > > -- > Joe Abley <jabley(a)patho.gen.nz> --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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alcohol
by Joe Abley 15 Oct '98

15 Oct '98

Apologies for the very beery nature of these messages. Just in case anybody turns up and wonders where all the free beer is, I won't be over at Galbraith's until shortly after 6. Note that this is not an implicit confirmation of the availabity of free beer :) -- Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008 Network Architect, CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Drinks Tonight?!?
by Rowan Smith 15 Oct '98

15 Oct '98

Between all the intelligent talk about renumbering New Zealands IP Address space did anyone actually commit to going to Galbraiths tonight for a beer ot not? Remember you only have to agree with Joe until hes forked over for the alcohol, then you can start arguing again!! -Rowan

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Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by craig＠laptop.iprolink.co.nz 15 Oct '98

15 Oct '98

Hi. Here is a table of OSPF advertisements at NZIX and BGP announcements in Europe, the AS number for the corresponding BGP advertisment as seen in Europe, and the first descr line in the APNIC database. It may give a good indication of the current use of NZGATE (and NZNIC) addresses. If the /16's are removed, would this represent (say within 20%) of the address space in use today? -Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 202.27.0.0/16 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.100.0/22 4768 Bell South Auckland 202.27.103.0/24 4768 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.104.0/22 7714 Nelson City Council 202.27.113.0/24 4648 Combines Rural Traders, Otago 202.27.115.0/24 4768 Bay of Plenty Polytech 202.27.119.0/24 4763 CEDENCO FOODS LTD 202.27.120.0/22 4768 Asia Pacific World Travel Ltd 202.27.120.0/24 4768 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.128.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.132.0/24 4648 Tip Top Ice Cream Company Ltd 202.27.138.0/24 4648 Telecom Mobile Communications 202.27.140.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.146.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.148.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.149.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.150.0/24 4648 Telecom Directories NZ Limited 202.27.151.0/24 4648 Telecom Directories Limited 202.27.156.0/22 4648 Telecom Online Service 202.27.16.0/20 4657 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd./Information Technology Division 202.27.160.0/24 4648 The Great Elk Company Limited 202.27.169.0/24 4648 Netway Communications Ltd 202.27.176.0/21 4648 Telecom Online Service 202.27.184.0/23 4648 Telecom Online Service 202.27.186.0/23 4648 NetAccess 202.27.192.0/24 4648 Madison Systems Limited 202.27.193.0/24 4648 IDG Communications Limited 202.27.194.0/24 4648 Hybrid Systems Limited 202.27.195.0/24 4648 New Zealand Dairy Foods 202.27.197.0/24 4763 New Zealand Microcomputer Club Inc 202.27.198.0/24 4763 Hypercom Communication Technologies Ltd 202.27.200.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.201.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.203.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.204.0/24 4648 NZNET Internet Services Ltd. 202.27.208.0/24 4648 Advanced Digital Business Solutions 202.27.209.0/24 4648 Telecom Business Systems 202.27.210.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.211.0/24 4763 Phillips Fox 202.27.212.0/24 4763 Kings College Auckland 202.27.213.0/24 4763 Pharos System Ltd 202.27.214.0/24 4763 MaC Consultants 202.27.215.0/24 4763 Citadel Computer Systems Ltd 202.27.216.0/24 4763 Building Information 202.27.217.0/24 4763 Datasure Management Systems 202.27.218.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.219.0/24 4763 I-Sys Training Services 202.27.222.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.223.0/24 4763 Show-Off New Zealand Limited 202.27.232.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.234.0/24 4648 Wickliffe Press Limited 202.27.236.0/24 4763 Howick Intermediate School 202.27.240.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.241.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.242.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.243.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.244.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.247.0/24 4763 Gisborne District Council 202.27.248.0/24 4763 Netbyte Internet Service Provider 202.27.250.0/24 4763 W. Stevenson & Sons Ltd. 202.27.251.0/24 4763 Harrahs Sky City 202.27.252.0/24 4648 Lion Nathan Limited 202.27.254.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.255.0/24 4648 Netway Communications Limited 202.27.34.0/24 7714 Marine-Air Systems Ltd. 202.27.40.0/21 7714 Fujitsu New Zealand Limited 202.27.54.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.60.0/22 4648 J.D. Edwards 202.27.64.0/22 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.66.0/24 7714 Bits & Bytes 202.27.68.0/24 7714 Government Within Reach 202.27.70.0/24 7714 Association Of University Staff 202.27.71.0/24 7714 Crown Institute Of Studies 202.27.72.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.76.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.78.0/23 7714 New Zealand Society of Accountants 202.27.81.0/24 4768 IT Communications Ltd 202.27.82.0/24 7714 Haines Recruitment Advertising 202.27.83.0/24 7714 NZ Products and Services 202.27.85.0/24 4648 Wanganui Polytechnic Internet 202.27.86.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.87.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.88.0/22 7714 Brooker's Ltd 202.27.92.0/22 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.27.96.0/24 4648 Tauranga District Library 202.27.99.0/24 4648 Health Research Council of New Zealand 202.36.0.0/16 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.103.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.110.0/24 4648 International Pacific College 202.36.111.0/24 4648 Whitcoulls Office Products 202.36.112.0/24 4648 Whitcoulls Ltd, National Office 202.36.113.0/24 4648 Whitcoulls School Supplies 202.36.114.0/24 7714 Diagnostic Laboratory 202.36.121.0/24 4648 Napier Computer Systems 202.36.122.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.123.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.124.0/24 4648 Shirley Boys High School 202.36.125.0/24 4648 Shirley Boys High School 202.36.134.0/23 4648 Horticulture and Food Research Institute Limited 202.36.137.0/24 7714 Ministry for the Environment 202.36.140.0/24 4648 OTC OFFICE SUPPLIES LTD. 202.36.141.0/24 7714 Wellington College of Education 202.36.147.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.148.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.149.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.150.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.151.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.152.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.153.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.154.0/24 7714 Manukau City Council 202.36.155.0/24 4648 TIMARU DISTRICT COUNCIL 202.36.157.0/24 7714 Genesis Research and Development Corporation Ltd 202.36.162.0/23 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.164.0/22 7714 Adis International 202.36.170.0/24 4768 EARTHLIGHT COMMUNICATIONS LTD 202.36.171.0/24 7714 CPS Systems (NZ) Ltd 202.36.173.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.174.0/24 4648 Ecolink Networking Service 202.36.175.0/24 4648 Northland Regional Council 202.36.178.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.179.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.181.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.192.0/22 7714 Computer Systems Implementation Limited 202.36.196.0/24 7714 General Automation 202.36.198.0/24 7714 Interconnect, Ltd. 202.36.202.0/24 4768 Business Computers Ltd. 202.36.204.0/23 4648 Actrix Networks Ltd 202.36.206.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.207.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.208.0/24 4648 Production Engineeering (New Zealand) Ltd. 202.36.209.0/24 4763 Internet Hawkes Bay Limited 202.36.210.0/24 2687 Worley Consultants Ltd 202.36.214.0/23 4805 Manawatu Wanganui Regional Council 202.36.218.0/24 4648 Allied Press Limited 202.36.220.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.221.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.224.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.226.0/24 4648 Internet Connectivity Associates 202.36.227.0/24 4768 Serious Information Services 202.36.229.0/24 7714 Sofrana Utilities 202.36.230.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.231.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.235.0/24 7714 CED Distributors Ltd 202.36.239.0/24 7714 I-Max 202.36.240.0/24 7714 Binary Brothers 202.36.244.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.245.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.251.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.252.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.28.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.29.0/24 7714 MAF Fisheries Marine Research 202.36.30.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.31.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.32.0/24 4648 Delphic Medical Systems Ltd. 202.36.33.0/24 7714 Television New Zealand 202.36.34.0/24 7714 Building Research Association of NZ 202.36.35.0/24 4740 Galen Group 202.36.36.0/22 4648 Internet Company of New Zealand 202.36.43.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.44.0/24 7714 Scientific Software and Systems Ltd. 202.36.45.0/24 7714 Eagle Technology Group 202.36.46.0/24 7714 Lynx Communications 202.36.60.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.64.0/22 4648 National Library of New Zealand 202.36.68.0/23 4648 Financial Systems Limited 202.36.7.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.70.0/24 7714 Kiwi BBS System 202.36.72.0/24 7714 NetLink network 202.36.75.0/24 4763 Tairawhiti Polytechnic 202.36.76.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.77.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.80.0/21 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.80.0/24 7714 GEAC Computers NZ Limited 202.36.83.0/24 4763 Com Tech (N.Z.) Limited 202.36.91.0/24 4768 Clearview Communications Ltd 202.36.94.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.95.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.95.128/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.36.95.64/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.37.0.0/16 4648 202.37.0.0/20 4648 The Open Polytechnic of New Zealand 202.37.0.0/20 7714 The Open Polytechnic of New Zealand 202.37.100.0/24 4648 Cave Rock Software Limited 202.37.101.0/24 4648 MacAccess 202.37.102.0/24 4648 Christchurch Schools 202.37.104.0/24 4648 Riccarton High School 202.37.105.0/24 4648 Riccarton High School 202.37.106.0/24 4648 Sirranet Ltd 202.37.107.0/24 4648 Sirranet Ltd 202.37.108.0/24 4648 Hindin Communications Ltd. 202.37.111.0/24 4648 Hindin Communications Ltd. 202.37.112.0/24 7714 PlaNet FreeNZ ISP 202.37.114.0/24 7714 Christ's College 202.37.116.0/24 4648 Piopio College 202.37.117.0/24 4763 Lynfield College 202.37.118.0/24 4763 West Auckland Education Centre 202.37.120.0/24 4648 Macpac Wilderness Equipment Limited 202.37.127.0/24 4648 Email-Centre 202.37.129.0/24 4648 E-VerNet Ltd 202.37.132.0/24 4740 CASystems 202.37.135.0/24 4740 Datamatic 202.37.137.0/24 4648 MegaDyne Communications Ltd 202.37.138.0/23 4648 MegaDyne Communications Ltd 202.37.140.0/22 4648 Geothermal Energy NZ LTD 202.37.144.0/21 4648 202.37.156.0/22 4768 Ciga Computers Ltd 202.37.160.0/24 4763 New Zealand Funds Management Ltd 202.37.162.0/24 4648 Designer Technology Limited 202.37.165.0/24 4648 New Zealand Trade Centre 202.37.166.0/24 7714 Diocesan School for Girls 202.37.167.0/24 4648 Worldnet BBS 202.37.168.0/24 4763 Worldnet BBS 202.37.169.0/24 4763 AGB Research NZ Limited 202.37.170.0/24 4648 Pacific Business Systems 202.37.171.0/24 4648 Financial & Media Services (NZ) Ltd, Auckland 202.37.173.0/24 7714 Diocesan School for Girls 202.37.176.0/23 4763 202.37.176.0/24 4763 Cypher Systems Ltd 202.37.181.0/24 4648 CORPORATE SOFTWARE NZ 202.37.182.0/24 4648 The Atlantean Connection Ltd 202.37.184.0/22 4648 Intermilk 202.37.188.0/22 4768 Southern InterNet Services Ltd 202.37.192.0/23 2687 Worley Consultants LTD 202.37.192.0/24 2687 Worley Consultants LTD 202.37.193.0/24 2687 Worley Consultants LTD 202.37.194.0/24 4648 Canuck Computer Services NZ 202.37.194.1/32 4648 Canuck Computer Services NZ 202.37.197.0/24 4648 Internet Company of New Zealand 202.37.200.0/22 4648 Internet Company of New Zealand 202.37.21.0/24 4648 Ministry of Forestry 202.37.218.0/23 4768 Enhanced Information Systems 202.37.222.0/24 4648 SEACOH Training Institute 202.37.223.0/24 4763 Pasadena Intermediate School 202.37.224.0/21 4648 Internet Company of New Zealand Wellington 202.37.23.0/24 7714 Ministry Of Agriculture 202.37.232.0/24 4648 New Lynn Database Limited 202.37.234.0/24 4648 Pearson Davis Ltd Advertising 202.37.235.0/24 7714 Diocesan School for Girls 202.37.236.0/22 4648 Telecom Internet Services 202.37.24.0/24 4648 Butterworths of NZ Ltd 202.37.240.0/23 4648 2Day Internet Limited 202.37.244.0/24 4648 202.37.245.0/24 4648 202.37.245.176/30 4648 202.37.245.180/30 4648 202.37.245.32/30 4648 202.37.245.40/30 4648 202.37.245.42/32 4648 202.37.248.0/24 4648 Meadow Fresh Foods 202.37.249.0/24 4648 Airways Corporation of New Zealand Limited 202.37.250.0/23 4648 Airways Corporation of New Zealand Limited 202.37.252.0/24 4648 Level 5, CMC Building, 89 Courtnay Place 202.37.253.0/24 4648 Molesworth House, 101 Molesworth Street 202.37.254.0/24 2687 Paxus House, Boulcott Street 202.37.27.0/24 7714 Electricity Market Company Limited 202.37.32.0/23 7714 Ministry of Education 202.37.42.0/24 4648 Southland Polytech 202.37.43.0/24 4648 Southland Polytech 202.37.44.0/24 4648 James Cook High School 202.37.45.0/24 4648 Netway Communications Ltd 202.37.48.0/24 4648 Datacraft New Zealand limited 202.37.49.0/24 4648 Datacraft New Zealand limited 202.37.50.0/24 4648 Datacraft New Zealand limited 202.37.51.0/24 4648 Datacraft New Zealand limited 202.37.52.0/24 7714 Ministry of Fisheries 202.37.54.0/24 7714 N.Z Telecommunications System Support Center Ltd 202.37.56.0/23 7714 A.J Park And Son 202.37.60.0/22 7714 Whangarei District Council 202.37.64.0/21 4763 NetLink network 202.37.64.0/24 4763 Auckland City Council 202.37.68.0/24 4763 202.37.69.0/24 4763 202.37.70.0/24 4763 202.37.71.0/24 4763 202.37.72.0/23 7714 202.37.74.0/24 4648 Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Limited 202.37.75.0/24 4763 Orion Systems Limited 202.37.76.0/24 4648 Optimation New Zealand Ltd 202.37.77.0/24 4648 InterNet Connectivity Associates Ltd 202.37.78.0/24 4763 Auckland 202.37.79.0/24 4648 Weta Internet Services 202.37.81.0/24 4648 Diagnostic Laboratory 202.37.84.0/24 4648 P&O Services (NZ) Ltd 202.37.85.0/24 7714 OSI Software Limited 202.37.86.0/24 4648 InterNet Connectivity Associates Ltd 202.37.87.0/24 4648 InterNet Connectivity Associates Ltd 202.37.88.0/24 4648 The University of Auckland (2nd) DMZ 202.37.89.0/24 4648 Northland Regional Council 202.37.93.0/24 2687 Honda NZ Ltd 202.37.94.0/24 4763 2Day Internet Limited 202.37.96.0/23 4648 Tait Electronics 202.37.99.0/24 4648 Christchurch School of Medicine 202.49.0.0/16 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.0.0/21 4648 Otago Polytechnic 202.49.0.0/21 4768 Otago Polytechnic 202.49.104.0/24 4648 SEACOH Training Institute 202.49.107.0/24 4648 Multimedia Systems Limited, Auckland 202.49.115.0/24 4648 Internet Southland 202.49.116.0/22 4648 Dunedin City Council 202.49.120.0/24 4648 Dunstan Software 202.49.121.0/24 4648 Internet Southland 202.49.122.0/24 4648 Apple Education Centre 202.49.125.0/24 4648 South Net Ltd 202.49.128.0/21 4768 BCL Ltd 202.49.136.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.137.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.140.0/24 7714 PlaNet Trust 202.49.141.0/24 4763 Kapiti Internet Services 202.49.143.0/24 4648 The National Bank. 202.49.144.0/24 4648 Glazier Systems Limited 202.49.148.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.149.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.151.0/24 4648 Avonside Girls High School 202.49.152.0/21 4648 Internet Access Service Provider 202.49.16.0/20 4768 Nelson Polytechnic 202.49.164.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.165.0/24 4763 PlaNet Hamilton 202.49.166.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.167.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.168.0/24 4648 EnterNet Online Limited 202.49.170.0/24 4648 Arron Scott Developments 202.49.172.0/22 4648 TV3 Network Services 202.49.176.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.177.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.178.0/24 4768 Wave internet services 202.49.179.0/24 4740 ARAC Enterprises Limited 202.49.180.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.180.64/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.181.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.181.0/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.181.128/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.181.192/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.181.64/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.183.0/24 4648 Brice Parker Consultants 202.49.184.0/24 4648 Applied Computers Ltd 202.49.185.0/24 4648 John Houlker Internet 202.49.186.0/24 4648 Efficient Software New Zealand Limited 202.49.186.0/28 4648 Efficient Software New Zealand Limited 202.49.187.0/24 4768 Earthlight Communications Ltd 202.49.189.0/24 4763 Pakuranga College 202.49.190.0/24 4648 National Library of New Zealand 202.49.193.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.194.0/24 7714 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.197.0/24 7714 Computer Systems Implementation Limited 202.49.198.0/23 4648 Wanganui Polytechnic - Internet 202.49.206.0/24 7714 The Laptop Shop Ltd 202.49.208.0/21 7714 Additional Class-C nets to support expansion of 202.49.224.0/22 4768 Serious Information Services 202.49.230.0/24 4768 Reed Publishing 202.49.233.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.240.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.241.0/24 7657 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.241.64/26 7657 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.242.0/24 7657 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.244.0/22 4648 The Internet Group in Northland 202.49.249.0/24 4648 Efficient Software New Zealand Limited 202.49.250.0/24 4648 Maximum Warp 202.49.251.0/24 4648 Stretton & Co. Limited 202.49.252.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.253.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.255.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.255.0/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.255.128/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.255.192/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.255.64/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.33.0/24 4768 Computer Systems Engineering (NZ) Ltd 202.49.34.0/23 4648 Hamilton City Council 202.49.36.0/24 4768 Waikato Development Foundation 202.49.39.0/24 4648 National Library of New Zealand 202.49.41.0/24 4648 Rural Education Activities Program 202.49.46.0/23 4768 Computer Systems Engineering (NZ) Ltd 202.49.48.0/24 4768 Rotorua District Council 202.49.50.0/24 7714 Matamata Piako District Council 202.49.58.0/24 4648 Kristin School 202.49.62.0/24 4763 Clearfield Consulting Ltd 202.49.63.0/24 4768 Wave internet services 202.49.64.0/21 4648 Plain Communications Ltd 202.49.72.0/22 7714 Teltrend NZ Ltd, Christchurch, New Zealand. 202.49.78.0/24 4648 Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Limited 202.49.79.0/24 4648 Doughty Group 202.49.80.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.81.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.82.0/24 4805 Massey University, Information Technology Services 202.49.84.0/24 7714 Hardcastle Electronics Ltd 202.49.86.0/24 4768 Ergo Finacial Services 202.49.88.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.112/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.12/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.124/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.132/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.156/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.224/27 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.32/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.33/32 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.36/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.88.8/30 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.89.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.89.0/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.89.128/26 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.90.0/23 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.49.92.0/22 4648 Nelson Planet Trust 202.49.96.0/21 4648 Bank Of New Zealand 202.50.0.0/16 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.0.0/23 4648 NZI Insurance Ltd 202.50.102.0/24 7714 ANSO Systems Ltd 202.50.103.0/24 4648 Random 202.50.104.0/22 4648 Tasman District Council 202.50.108.0/24 4763 Advanced Digital Business Solutions 202.50.111.0/24 4763 CA-Systems Limited 202.50.112.0/24 4768 Gough Technology Group 202.50.114.0/24 4763 Advanced Digital Business Solutions 202.50.117.0/24 4768 Skope Industries Ltd 202.50.121.0/24 4648 Stimulus (NZ) Ltd. 202.50.124.0/22 4648 PlaNet (NZ) Nelson 202.50.129.0/24 4648 Ministry of Defence 202.50.130.0/23 4768 Wattie Frozen Foods 202.50.137.0/24 7714 Chelmer Treasury Solutions Ltd. 202.50.139.0/24 7714 Datastor (NZ) Ltd. 202.50.162.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.164.0/24 4763 Magicians BBS Network 202.50.165.0/24 4648 Accident Rehabilitation Compensation and Insurance Corporation 202.50.167.0/24 4648 THENETTD 202.50.169.0/24 4648 Eastern Southland Internet 202.50.170.0/24 4648 Business Internet Solutions 202.50.171.0/24 4648 Inet Co Ltd 202.50.177.0/24 4768 Quantum Internet Limited 202.50.178.0/23 4768 Planet(NZ) Timaru 202.50.185.0/24 2687 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.186.0/24 2687 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.188.0/22 4768 Wave internet services 202.50.196.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.197.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.198.0/24 4648 National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd 202.50.199.0/24 4648 Landcare Research Limited 202.50.200.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.201.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.202.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.203.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.204.0/24 4648 National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research Ltd 202.50.205.0/24 4648 Landcare Research Limited 202.50.206.0/24 4648 Crop Research Limited 202.50.207.0/24 4648 Crop Research Limited 202.50.208.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.209.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.210.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.211.0/24 4763 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.212.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.213.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.214.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.215.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.219.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.220.0/24 4648 Crop Research Limited 202.50.221.0/24 4648 Dynix Automated Library Systems 202.50.222.0/24 4648 Crop Research Limited 202.50.223.0/24 4648 Raewyn & Trudy's System including 202.50.244.0/24 4648 Power Beat International Limited 202.50.246.0/24 4648 ems.co.nz 202.50.252.0/24 7714 Eastern Institute of Technology Hawke's Bay 202.50.253.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.254.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.255.0/24 4648 The Internet Group 202.50.255.0/28 4648 The Internet Group 202.50.255.128/25 4648 The Internet Group 202.50.255.32/27 4648 The Internet Group 202.50.49.0/24 4648 Swichtec Power Systems Limited 202.50.52.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.53.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.54.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.55.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.57.0/24 4648 Coal Research Limited 202.50.6.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.64.0/21 4648 PlaNet (Manawatu) Community Company Ltd 202.50.72.0/24 4648 Gateway Polynesia 202.50.73.0/24 4648 Brierley Investments Limited 202.50.75.0/24 4648 Netway ZM Service 202.50.78.0/23 4648 Southpower 202.50.80.0/22 4648 Telecom Internet Services (previously Online Services) 202.50.84.0/24 4648 Publish Media New Zealand 202.50.85.0/24 4648 Moore Business Forms and Systems Limited 202.50.87.0/24 4648 Circle International 202.50.9.0/24 4648 NZ Gate National Service Provider 202.50.90.0/24 4648 Southland Polytechnic 202.50.92.0/24 4648 RealENZ Limited 202.50.94.0/24 4648 SUNSHINE Online 202.50.95.0/24 4763 Creative cGi Ltd 203.96.0.0/20 6831 Pronet Limited 203.96.112.0/24 4648 Deep South Networks Ltd 203.96.117.0/24 4648 Owens Services B.O.P. Ltd 203.96.118.0/24 4648 CADS (Auckland) Ltd 203.96.119.0/24 4648 World-Net Limited 203.96.120.0/23 4768 The National Business Review 203.96.120.0/24 4768 NZGate Aggregate Networks 203.96.123.0/24 4648 ComNet Technologies Limited 203.96.125.0/24 4648 Dilworth School. 203.96.126.0/24 4648 WorldNet ISP 203.96.128.0/19 4768 Globe.Net Comms, 203.96.130.0/24 4768 NZGate Aggregate Networks 203.96.144.0/20 9345 Paradise Net Ltd, 203.96.16.0/20 9343 Pronet Limited 203.96.192.0/19 4768 wave internet services 203.96.32.0/21 6831 Pronet Limited 203.96.40.0/21 9325 Pronet Limited 203.96.48.0/20 9343 Pronet Limited 203.96.64.0/19 4648 Netway Communications Limited 203.96.92.0/22 4648 Telecom Online Service 203.96.96.0/19 4648 NZGate Aggregate Networks 203.96.96.0/20 4648 Telecom Online Service 203.97.0.0/17 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.0.0/22 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.10.0/24 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.11.0/26 4768 Face 203.97.11.144/30 4768 Face 203.97.11.148/30 4768 Face 203.97.11.152/30 4768 Face 203.97.11.156/30 4768 Face 203.97.11.160/29 4768 Face 203.97.11.168/30 4768 Face 203.97.11.172/30 4768 Face 203.97.11.192/26 4768 Face 203.97.12.0/23 4768 Air New Zealand 203.97.128.0/17 7714 Netlink 203.97.133.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.135.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.136.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.139.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.14.0/24 4768 Bell Gully Buddle Weir 203.97.143.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.147.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.15.0/27 4768 ESR 203.97.15.128/26 4768 ESR 203.97.15.32/27 4768 ESR 203.97.15.64/27 4768 ESR 203.97.15.96/27 4768 ESR 203.97.151.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.154.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.16.0/22 4768 Plexus Communications 203.97.163.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.164.0/24 4768 NetLink 203.97.165.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.182.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.191.241/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.192.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.199.0/24 4768 NetLink 203.97.20.0/23 4768 Royal New Zealand Foundation for the Blind 203.97.200.0/23 7714 Netlink 203.97.203.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.207.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.210.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.215.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.216.0/23 7714 Netlink 203.97.218.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.22.0/24 4768 Pacific Networks 203.97.222.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.223.0/24 4768 NetLink 203.97.227.0/24 4768 NetLink 203.97.23.0/24 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.23.128/29 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.23.136/29 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.23.144/28 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.23.160/28 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.23.176/28 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.23.192/27 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.23.224/27 4768 Buddle Findlay 203.97.230.0/24 4768 NetLink: RNZFB Hamilton 203.97.235.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.24.0/24 4768 PACIFIC 203.97.240.0/23 7714 Netlink 203.97.242.0/24 7714 NetLink 203.97.25.0/24 4768 Advantage International 203.97.250.0/23 7714 Netlink 203.97.250.0/24 4768 Clearview Communications 203.97.250.0/24 7714 Clearview Communications 203.97.26.0/24 4768 Guardian Assurance 203.97.27.0/27 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.128/27 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.160/28 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.176/28 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.192/27 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.224/27 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.32/28 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.64/27 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.27.96/27 4768 TMP Worldwide 203.97.28.0/22 9325 SineSurf 203.97.32.0/21 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.4.0/24 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.40.0/24 4768 Contact Energy 203.97.41.0/24 4768 PACIFIC 203.97.42.0/24 4768 Plexus Communications 203.97.43.0/25 4768 Frontier Technology 203.97.43.144/29 4768 Frontier Technology 203.97.44.0/24 4768 TITAN 203.97.45.0/24 4768 Wellman 203.97.46.0/24 4768 Webmasters 203.97.47.0/24 4768 Tech Tonics 203.97.48.0/21 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.5.0/24 4768 Computer Science Applied Research Centre 203.97.56.0/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.112/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.128/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.144/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.160/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.176/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.192/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.208/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.24/29 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.240/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.32/29 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.40/29 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.48/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.64/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.80/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.56.96/28 4768 Team Comtext 203.97.57.0/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.112/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.128/29 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.136/29 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.144/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.16/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.160/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.176/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.192/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.224/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.240/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.32/29 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.40/29 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.48/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.64/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.80/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.57.96/28 4768 Good Health Wanganui 203.97.58.0/24 4768 Citylink Peering 203.97.58.8/29 4768 Citylink Peering 203.97.59.0/24 4768 LINZ 203.97.6.0/23 4768 New Zealand Online Ltd 203.97.60.0/23 4768 Plexus Communications 203.97.62.0/25 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.62.128/27 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.62.160/28 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.62.176/28 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.62.192/28 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.62.208/28 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.62.224/28 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.62.240/28 4768 TRADENZ 203.97.63.0/24 4768 FRST 203.97.64.0/20 4768 Taranaki Polytechnic 203.97.8.0/23 4768 Earthlight Communications Ltd 203.97.80.0/22 4768 Southern Internet Services Ltd 203.97.80.0/24 4768 Southern Internet Services Ltd 203.97.81.0/24 4768 Southern Internet Services Ltd 203.97.82.0/24 4768 Southern Internet Services Ltd 203.97.83.0/24 4768 Southern Internet Services Ltd 203.97.84.0/24 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.85.0/24 4768 PACIFIC 203.97.86.0/24 4768 PACIFIC 203.97.87.0/24 4768 Bay City 203.97.88.0/24 4768 Renaissance Ltd 203.97.89.0/24 4768 Philips Fox 203.97.90.0/24 4768 Philips Fox 203.97.91.0/24 4768 Harding Computer Services 203.97.92.0/29 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.144/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.16/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.160/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.176/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.192/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.208/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.224/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.240/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.32/29 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.48/28 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.8/29 4768 Securitas 203.97.92.96/27 4768 Securitas 203.97.93.0/29 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.104/29 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.112/29 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.120/29 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.128/25 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.16/28 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.32/28 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.48/28 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.64/26 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.64/28 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.8/29 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.93.96/29 4768 CLEAR Communications Ltd 203.97.94.128/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.144/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.160/29 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.168/29 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.176/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.192/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.208/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.224/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.240/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.32/28 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.64/29 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.94.96/27 4768 CLEAR Net Wellington RAS Network 203.97.95.0/24 4768 AEP Filmpac 203.97.96.0/19 4768 Auckland Internet Exchange ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the 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2 1

Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by Michael Newbery 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

>>>> Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> - 10/14/98 6:24 PM >>> >On Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 05:42:38PM +1300, Chris Wedgwood wrote: >> >> Do people, when they move house, get pissed at telecom that they >> can't alway take their phone number with them? Is telecom being >> unreasonable here? > >They will, actually, as long as your new connection is off the same >exchange. Funnily enough, this is a matter that Saturn is very aware of :-|. Yes, they do, and yes, they are. At least, within the same local area. Just to be awkward, consider a cell phone number. The cell networks are set up to divorce indentity from locality. Landline telephone networks are less well set up, but still capable. In fact the situation is much as for IP---the exchanges have to maintain lookup tables that say "send *this* number *there*", rather than using rule based routing. Where IP and the telephone system differ is that this cost is incurred only at call setup (which is why TCNZ's current policy is iniquitous) whereas IP routes individual packets. But that's what caches are for. Back to the subject at hand. Back when we set up the VUW network, we had about 12 (from memory) machines set up using an invalid IP network 'plucked from the air'. This was before the private address ranges. When we got our class B (where we argued that although we did not have more than 254 machines, we would some day. Try that now :-). I recall the pain in moving. For only 12 machines. When I got here I found (invalid) IP addresses hard coded in all sorts of unfortunate places. Most had been set up by 3rd party equipment suppliers. Some were due to lazy (and IP-unaware) programmers. The point I am making is: Do NOT underestimate the pain caused by IP renumbering. Now that everyone and his dog is using IP, all sorts of pieces of equipment you might not expect have addresses buried deep with in them, and 18 mo down the track this fact is unknown to the current keepers of the key. -- Michael Newbery Technology Manager Saturn Communications Tel: +64-4-915 5102 Mobile:021-642 957 Fax:+64-4-939 5100 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by craig＠laptop.iprolink.co.nz 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

Hi Robert, Thanks for the excellent perspective on this issue. I'll only make a few comments. > 3. New entrants should not be disadvantaged (as they would be if we have one > set of rules for NZGATE addresses) and should also be able to obtain > provider independent addresses on terms no less attractive than existing > operators enjoy. For entrants who expect to need a reasonable amount of address space, there is little difference. The situation for those needing less is, unfortunately, difficult because small blocks of newly obtained addresses are unlikely to be routable. However, new entrants may be able to use NATs or otherwise build their systems to allow easy renumbering. The main problem for existing users is that changing can be difficult, expensive, and not commercially viable because few had anticipated a need to ever have to renumber (and the systems to make this easy were not available then). > 4. Incentives to corporates in particular to relinquish unused addresses This is an excellent idea. Perhaps all the incentives are already there (improved security, portability, future proofing, shorter outages from route flapping, etc). Perhaps we put together a readable document on the subject and distribute it widely. Providing incentives is certainly a much better approach than trying to coerce people into migrating -- and maybe we could get corporates to migrate without moving (resulting in more migration). > One of the elements missing here in NZ is the idea of a Local Internet > Registry, see http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-159.html (which is kind of what > I thought NZGATE was). I think lots of others did too, including APNIC. -Craig --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by craig＠laptop.iprolink.co.nz 13 Oct '98

13 Oct '98

Hi. > Who do you propose will pay the end users for the pain and real costs > involved? The ISPs have the easy part of this renumbering. I don't see > people renumbering because it's the right thing to do. They'll do it > because they have to e.g. when they move ISP. But if they have a /24 they don't have to. What this group is attempting to do is impose costs on the end users only if they try to move ISPs. It's a great way to lock up your clients. There is no technical reason to make users renumber when they move (just as there is no strong reason to make everyone move for the sake of moving). Getting everyone to migrate seems to be a goal, but yet by making users renumber only when they move, you will slow movement and thus migration. Importantly, the current proposal is not workable. The first client whose renumbering exercise is expensive will likely seek an injuction against any provider attempting to enforce these ideas. The balance of convenience would favor the end user and not the provider (who will suffer zero or no loss or convenience as a result of the end user not renumbering). In the case of an ISP, web hosting company, or business which depends on the Internet (and that's a good percentage of them now), not changing providers may not be a viable option. By opening the door with an N month grace period you are only showing everyone that it's technically possible but that you don't want to do it for commercial reasons. Restrictions on portability have never been _introduced_ anywhere else for _historical_ IP addresses. Half the root name servers are running on /24s -- every wonder why that is? I see no real benefit here -- we will still have ISPs moving these addresses around for years to come (the proposal rightly allows for that) -- what reason makes routes for ISPs look any different than routes for end users? How about we just agree to ask clients with NZGATE number to renumber on moves (we have a form/statement we all agree to give them), but eliminate any requirement to renumber)? -Craig --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: NZGATE addressing within NZ
by Robert Gray 13 Oct '98

13 Oct '98

Clearly this subject has provoked some very considered discussion on the subject of address portability. For those interested RIPE-127 (http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-127.html) provides a useful and lucid dissertation on the subject and offers a number of sensible recommendations. To selectively quote "All early Internet address space assignments were provider independent. Many assignments made by ISPs are also formally provider independent because they lack the clear prior understanding between ISP and customer that the assignment will end with the termination of the service." On the historical side regarding NZGATE I personally believe this is the key issue, i.e. unless you were told the space was not portable then it is. This however begs the question of how best to organise for the future. We are not an ISP in the accepted sense as we do not offer connectivity except as part of an overall package. We are however a significant user of IP addresses for web and mail servers. Joe's possible solution and the discussion so far causes us some concern. Having recently been through the process of re-numbering and implementing NAT it proved a major undertaking and one I would hesitate to repeat. We made a number of errors resulting in outages for our clients and irritation to our suppliers and I am at a loss to see how these could have been avoided. Hopefully with NAT now in place we would make it a little easier however the number and scope of DNS changes, firewall changes, authentication changes and the fact that these must occur in one 'hit' makes it commercially pretty unacceptable. With today's firewalls/proxy servers there should be no issue for even large corporates to renumber over time, given incentive to do so. IPv6 should give this if no other reason. Smaller providers however are faced with significant problems in re-numbering which although they may seem small time are in fact relatively expensive and difficult for such an operator to overcome. We now have an example where one of our clients has been enticed by the offer of a /24 by another ISP with NZGATE addresses to burn, something we are unable to provide. I have to say that I consider this sort of behaviour seriously unethical. For me, key elements of a solution are: 1. Access providers should not be able to hold downstream operators to ransom by withholding IP addresses and forcing such users to renumber if they move. 2. The solution should offer all existing ISP players long term access to the provider independent IP addresses they need to do business. In other words a level playing field. 3. New entrants should not be disadvantaged (as they would be if we have one set of rules for NZGATE addresses) and should also be able to obtain provider independent addresses on terms no less attractive than existing operators enjoy. 4. Incentives to corporates in particular to relinquish unused addresses One of the elements missing here in NZ is the idea of a Local Internet Registry, see http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-159.html (which is kind of what I thought NZGATE was). To quote again "Local IRs are typically operated by ISPs and serve the customers of those ISPs as well as the customers of smaller ISPs who are connected to the rest of the Internet through the larger ISP." Seems to me that a Local IR might be really useful. If I can contribute a beer sounds like an excellent scheme. Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz http://www.clearview.co.nz/ Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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