- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Live Webcast - Meet instructors of Certificate In Web-based Instruction offered by Simon Fraser University
by Abigail 15 Jul '03

15 Jul '03

On July 30th at 1100 hrs Pacific Time (GMT 08:00) there will be a Webcast featuring the instructors of the Certificate in Web-Based Instruction (CWI). Participants of the Webcast can interact with the instructors and ask questions about this program. The CWI program gives you the tools and knowledge necessary to design, develop and deliver web-based courses or add online components to classroom teachings. If you are unable to make it to this live presentation at the above date then you can attend one of the following alternative dates: Wednesday, August 20 at 1100 hrs Pacific Time (GMT 8:00) or Wednesday, September 3 at 1100 hrs Pacific Time (GMT 8:00). Please register to participate in the live Webcast by visiting http://www.sfu.ca/lidc/telestraining. Abby Dy Communications Specialist Certificate in Web-Based Instruction Tel: 604-806-5156 ady(a)sfu.ca

1 0

RE: [nznog] Anyone thinking about WiMAX?
by Matthew G Brown 12 Jul '03

12 Jul '03

New Zealand regulatory bodies are trying to put us more in line with the US FCC standards. So I should not see to much of a problem,. 5.8 & 5.3ghz are virtually self managed by users as it is. I have several cases at the moment of other people using the Uncertified and darn right HORRIBLE! 2.4/5.8 Up.Down converters in areas turning the spectrum in to "Flip the coin for a channel" . But it's a matter if people been sensible and maybe we can take some more control over our own spectrum. Some where I have papers outlinig this, Off list of anyone wants Helen Clarkes peoples dribble on the matter. Best Regards Matthew G Brown Managing Director B & R Holdings LIMITED Nelson, New Zealand Ph: 027 4807731 Http://www.brh.co.nz -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] Sent: Friday, 11 July 2003 9:38 a.m. To: Matthew G Brown Subject: RE: [nznog] Anyone thinking about WiMAX? On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Matthew G Brown wrote: > We had a meeting on this at CeBit Sydney. I was not aware that the > IEEE had ratified the standard at the time. There is plenty of talk > about it in isp-wireless news groups over the last few months. Proxim > and Alvarion are defiantly working on 802.16 at the moment. > > The issue lies with me that if your not after the QOS and control > features then why not just go buy Redline off the shelf, $20,000 for > 55mb over 40 miles is cheap buying. > > Im going to keep following this standard for the fact it can be > developed over a combination of frequencies. Ideally 3.5ghz .... FYI > people considering 3.5ghz should keep in Mind that Alvarion ( Formally > Breezecom ) have been producing 3.5ghz equipment for there local > market for 10 years. Infact the BAII & BreezeAcess series are all > avail at 3.5ghz. Good news for Rural Broadband people > > </rant, less coffee> More coffee... it's morning. Although the 802.16a stuff is pricey at the moment (they're talking US$1,000 for customer "modems") it could be very interesting for providers looking to bypass the local loop stranglehold. Not just for the rurals, in other words. Here's hoping someone else than Walkers will try to deploy in Auckland. I wonder if there are any radio frequency spectrum issues here though? Redline's AN-50 looks like it delivers the same performance -- 72Mbps, up to 80km range... only 49Mbps "at the Ethernet level" though. -- Juha Saarinen

1 0

NetForum 2003
by Tim John 12 Jul '03

12 Jul '03

Hi Roger, Just a quick word of thanks for a most enjoyable couple of days in Auckland during the NetForum conference. Please pass on my thanks to Sue and all the others who worked hard to make it happen this year. I would also like to thank all those who contributed their time by giving presentations during the Thursday and Friday I was there. I didn't catch all the presentations, but the ones I did see were great. BTW, on the flight back to Wellington, I attempted to get into the cockpit and show the pilot what I had learned from the Flight Sim. presentation, but was promptly refused :) Thanks again, Tim DISCLAIMER: The content of this email is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity named above. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that the use, distribution and publication of the above information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact Domainz by returning the email and destroying the original. Thank you.

1 0

ISC F root nameserver node live at APE
by Joe Abley 11 Jul '03

11 Jul '03

APE Peering People, Internet Software Consortium has a node of the F root nameserver at the APE in Auckland. Networks connected to the APE can gain access to this node by peering with it across the exchange, as follows: APE addresses: 192.203.154.98, 192.203.154.99 AS number: 23710 NOC phone: +1 650 423 1310 INOC DBA: 3557 NOC e-mail: noc(a)isc.org The APE path to F will also be available through the APE route servers. Networks peering locally with F gain lower transport latency and increased path diversity to the F root nameserver, which helps make the DNS as a whole more reliable. ISC operates an open peering policy. To set up a session please send e-mail to peering(a)isc.org. The F root nameserver node in Auckland advertises the single prefix 192.5.5.0/24 to peers which covers the address of f.root-servers.net. For further details of the general routing policy for F, together with a summary of remote F-root nodes deployed at other exchange points, see: http://www.isc.org/peering/ A representation of the policy for the F-Root node in Auckland is present in the IRR. The Auckland F root nameserver node was made possible by Juniper Networks, TelstraClear, FX Networks and 2day.com. Joe

2 1

usenet.net.nz offline.
by Simon Lyall 10 Jul '03

10 Jul '03

Just a quick FYI but usenet.net.nz is currently offline due to dodgy hardware, this means that the noc contact list, ape website and my looking glass (onlong with random other stuff) is offline. I'll kick the box tomorrow and I have a replacement machine ready, hopefully I'll have a chance to config it up in the next couple of days. -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz Ihug Ltd, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz

1 0

Anyone thinking about WiMAX?
by Juha Saarinen 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

www.wimaxforum.org Roundabout 50km reach, with 70Mbps max rate. -- Juha Saarinen

2 1

legal threats from DE Technologies re web commerce
by Robert Hunt 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

James & Wells NZ Barristers and Solicitors (http://www.jaws.co.nz) are acting for DE Technologies ( http://www.detechnologies.com ) DE Technologies are described at http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/GAMArticleHTMLTemplate?tf=globetechn… as "a tiny company in Montreal" and the patent as "a computer implemented process for carrying out an international commercial transaction." I hope this is not seen as off topic. I am at a loss to say whether this is an absurdity or a significant worry, but my firm has recently received a legal fax from James & Wells claiming we are infringing DE Technologies recently acquired NZ Patent. In what looks like a mass produced demand they appear to require that we "discuss" obtaining a license for three years for US $25,000 plus 1.15% of our and our customers' transactions, if we wish to continue hosting web sites that take international orders. The NZ version of the patent was obtained earlier this year. Curiously the target of their attention happens to be a website of ours that does not do actual orders itself but is just a portal, hence my guess that this is part of an broad initial salvo in an attempt to create the "pay up and avoid litigation" response. I want to make contact with other operations who have received a license and royalty demand under NZ Patent 505284 for large sums of money if they wish to continue using basic international web shopping practices. We can probably deflect the particular letter we have received, however if the barristers involved are keen to search out sites that do have some chance of coming under the patent then they should find a virtual cornucopia, as they traverse the sites of your customers and ours. Supposing they succeed in upholding their patent then their requirements would claim a significant percentage of overheads of net traders looking to continue having international ordering/transaction capabilities. Obviously I am sorely disappointed that the NZ Patent Office is granting patents of this kind, and am reviewing both political and legal options for raising this issue in the public eye. Alongside Microsoft's moves to patent .Net APIs we are of course, seeing some serious challenges to developer freedoms, and end user's integration choices, if the arena of intellectual patents is not balanced with concern for open standards in at least some of the world. Well that is off topic now I am sure... I am happy to set up a list for discussing this issue if anyone else is interested, let me know or point me to a pre-existing nz list on this matter. Oh and I'll let you know when I have a patent on the process of running an online charity auction to save ISPs sued by patent attorney's.. :) regards Robert -- Robert Hunt phone +64-3-3645888 Managing Director fax +64-3-3645828 Plain Communications roberth(a)plain.co.nz

7 9

Effective RBL's
by Matthew G Brown 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Does anyone have experience with good RBL's . A client is running Mdaemon and looking to increase the level of SPAM protection. By Default its running relays.osirussoft.com, relays.ordb.com & bl.spamcop.net Anyone have any others that function well ? Best Regards Matthew G Brown Managing Director B & R Holdings LIMITED Nelson, New Zealand Ph: 027 4807731 Http://www.brh.co.nz

5 5

Re: [nznog] Xtra supporting Address harvesting and prompting customers to embed HTML in their e-mail ?
by Malcolm Lockyer 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

>From: Steve Phillips <steve(a)focb.co.nz> >To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >Subject: [nznog] Xtra supporting Address harvesting and prompting customers >to embed HTML in their e-mail ? >Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:33:39 +1200 >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >*sigh* <quote> To turn on HTML in your Outlook/Outlook Express On the Tools menu, click Options, and then click the Mail Format tab if on Outlook or the Send tab if on Outlook Express. </quote> (read: turn on the vulnerabilities) Its disturbing to see big companies trying to undo all our customer educating (read: using a cluestick) - it doesn't even meantion why us big government/IT Department/whatever types (read: those of us with a cluestick) don't like HTML mail..! I'd like to see anybody that can figure out how to apply the new crimes bill to spammers - to also use it against companies with pages like this to sort it out - <quote>Start getting everyone's email address now - in every way you can. </quote> *sigh* back to reality. // gets out the flameproof jacket ;) m > >http://xtramsn.co.nz/business/0,,10271-2468719,00.html > >No wonder we have such problems with spam and e-mail worms... > >-- >Steve. > >_______________________________________________ >Nznog mailing list >Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _________________________________________________________________ Check out the Xtra gaming servers at http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming !

1 0

Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Ewen McNeill 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

In message <5.2.0.9.0.20030709102145.00b81700(a)pele.citylink.co.nz>, Richard Nayl or writes: >Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-multicast. I agree its the most efficient >way of distributing a synchronous event. Its just I don't see a lot of >synchronous events...... Which brings me back to where I started -- with a bit of relaxation of the "I must see it NOW" requirement (in the order of a few seconds/minutes) and good client software/hardware, you can turn a bunch of not-quite-synchronous viewings into synchronous events. And thus snatch a multicast win, out of the jaws of a watch-now unicast defeat. This is both with "live" things -- which I agree aren't that common -- and also "near release time" viewings of things which aren't live (where you can expect that something which is recently released, and popular, is most likely to be wanted nearer the release time than later, in some sort of half-bell-curve type model). >Its just as the size of "live" viewer base gets smaller, and bandwidth >higher, multicasting doesn't seem worth the effort. Well I've seen approximately three orders of magnitude (powers of 10) drop in the cost of bandwidth/traffic over the last 10 years or so, and it's still at least two to three orders of magnitude away from the point where I'd be willing to say the "cost" of getting multicasting going isn't worth the value of the saved bandwidth. Generally like RAM space, harddrive space, etc, the uses will expand to fill all the available bandwidth, so using it inefficiently isn't exactly desireable. >If I stream an event for say 10 viewers, why should the rest of the >NZ net get it sent to them without asking for it. Umm, that's not how multicasting works (indeed it's the key difference between multicasting and broadcasting). But I think you know that already. Ewen

4 3

Xtra supporting Address harvesting and prompting customers to embed HTML in their e-mail ?
by Steve Phillips 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

*sigh* http://xtramsn.co.nz/business/0,,10271-2468719,00.html No wonder we have such problems with spam and e-mail worms... -- Steve.

1 0

Re: [nznog] legal threats from DE Technologies re web commerce
by David Farrar 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Robert Hunt wrote: > Obviously I am sorely disappointed that the NZ Patent > Office is granting patents of this kind, and am reviewing > both political and legal options for raising this issue in > the public eye. Alongside Microsoft's moves to patent > .Net APIs we are of course, seeing some serious challenges > to developer freedoms, and end user's integration choices, > if the arena of intellectual patents is not balanced with > concern for open standards in at least some of the world. > > Well that is off topic now I am sure... I am happy to > set up a list for discussing this issue if anyone else is > interested, let me know or point me to a pre-existing nz > list on this matter. The issue came up yesterday on InternetNZ's public-discuss list. Archives at http://listserver.internetnz.net.nz/pipermail/public-discuss/2003-July/thre… and list at http://listserver.internetnz.net.nz/mailman/listinfo/public-discuss InternetNZ is considering engaging a QC who is an expert in the intellectual property arena to provide some initial advice on the situation which has arisen. No decision has been taken yet, but InternetNZ would be interested in hearing from anyone else who may be affected by this. At a minimum I am sure we will be happy to help co-ordinate information sharing. DPF (VP and Chair of Legal & Regulatory, InternetNZ)

1 0

Re: [nznog] Netsites Domain Name Changes page offline?
by Ewen McNeill 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

In message <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307081250150.6688-100000(a)blue.darkmere.gen.nz>, Lin N ah writes: >On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Mark Davies wrote: >> [Mark's netsite changes list] >> I got asked on 1 July by Nick Griffin to not publish the changes list until >> some review I wasn't aware of that is apparently currently happening was >> completed. >> >Perhaps the DNC should explain to us why there is a problem with >Mark's excellent netsites page. The explanation I was given was that apparently some spammers had been trawling through the list of new domains to figure out what to look up to pick up a new collection of registrar/registrant/admin/technical contact addresses to spam. Apparently at least one spammer actually claimed to have used Mark's changes list as a source, which is presumably why the interium action was to ask for it to be taken down. As Steven Heath noted, there is a mention in the June Registrar newsletter; and it will be in the minutes from the June NZOC meeting which should be up RSN I'm told (apparently they were overlooked for a while in amongst everything else going on and now just need to be reviewed by NZOC for accuracy). And there should be some sort of call-for-comments coming out relatively soon (sometime in July?). >Is it doing any harm or is it because it isn't published by DNC and so >not sanctioned? Actually as I remember it Mark's site was one of the few that made it onto the original blessed list of those who could still do zone transfers when restrictions were put in place (a couple of years back). AFAICT it's merely the "source of addresses for spam" problem which makes it an issue, rather than "not run by the DNC". Ewen

2 1

RE: [nznog] Effective RBL's
by Michael Bordignon 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

> Does anyone have experience with good RBL's . A client is > running Mdaemon and looking to increase the level of SPAM > protection. By Default its running relays.osirussoft.com, > relays.ordb.com & bl.spamcop.net Anyone have any others that > function well ? I use these with exim: rbl_domains = relays.ordb.org/reject:list.dsbl.org/reject:relays.osirusoft.com/warn:blackh oles.easynet.nl\ /reject:bl.spamcop.net/reject:blackholes.five-ten-sg.com/warn Michael

1 0

RE: [nznog] Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 Now Law
by Donald Neal 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

> From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gordon(a)morenet.net.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, 9 July 2003 07:47 > To: Donald Neal; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: RE: [nznog] Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 Now Law > > > Even when its particularly relevant to network operations? > Like it or not, this is something that does affect our operations. Discussion of operational effects of a new law, based on knowledge of contents of that law - in. Discussion of what might be in that law - generally out. Sysadmins and network engineers seeking to give their opinions of interpretation of an Act - especially bad idea. - Donald Neal List Administrator > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Donald Neal [mailto:Donald.Neal(a)telecom.co.nz] > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 July 2003 3:42 PM > > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > Subject: RE: [nznog] Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 Now Law > > > > > > Let's just bear in mind that postings of a legal nature are > > discouraged on this list. > > > > - Donald Neal > > List Administrator > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Michael Sutton 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Point of Technical peturbance Multicast is much more efficient. The data does not flood to every router in New Zealand. Actual data, just like unicast, only routes to those branches of the network where there is actual demand at that instance in time. If there is no downstream client application (player) requesting the data feed, no data will be sent to that location. The only data held by routers is information about the identity of the upstream multicast source, if there is client request. If the demand was only in Wellington the multicast data would not leave Wellington. When someone joins in Auckland then the data would flow to Auckland and no-where-else... When the Auckland users ceases the session data transfer would be pruned back to Wellington while the multicast session continues. Regards Michael Sutton http://www.internetnz.co.nz/members/by-elections/030619byelection.html http://www.internetnz.co.nz/biographies/bio03-msutton.html -----Original Message----- From: Richard Naylor [mailto:richard.naylor(a)citylink.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:40 To: Ewen McNeill; Hamish MacEwan Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand Its just as the size of "live" viewer base gets smaller, and bandwidth higher, multicasting doesn't seem worth the effort. If I stream an event for say 10 viewers, why should the rest of the NZ net get it sent to them without asking for it. rich _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

1 0

RE: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Michael Sutton 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

I agree with your take on the issue, Ewen... Further, it is surely in the "National Interest" that multicast be in active operational capability today for the "Public Internet" so that in the event of a future national crisis such as a SARS, Foot and Mouth, Small Pox or when a similar situation occurs the facility can be used to its best technical advantage. It is then important to: communicate, instruct & train, professionals and the public - while reducing close personnel contact. Multicast can be used to provide "low cost" high quality content injection which of itself does not cause degradation of New Zealand network performance at any location during a strategic performance window. Alternatives such as Consumer Digital Satellite TV would cost, at list prices, significant dollars to open up spot channels for a period of days || weeks || months, and in such circumstances the Ministries available discretionary funds would be under severe pressure, and therefore may be excluded as a viable option. However, multicast would help, as the cost of 48hours digital satellite television broadcast might equate to the cost of one years multicast distribution @ 300kbs. During the SARs containment emergency, Beijing and other locations in China closed schools and other education institutions and made children stay home. Their schools used telephones and the Public Internet to conduct distance learning. What would happen in New Zealand if all schools in Auckland and other city locations closed. Multicast was also used to connect SARS support hubs in Asia. Therefore prior to such an emergency, operational multicast services today would enable strategic content provider organisations to distribute current operational materials for capture and/or real-time display and be prepared and confident that such a system can be relied on as a front-line communication capability. So... reliable operation today ensures access when Noah needs an Ark... Nobody will try to implement it the day a Balloon goes UP... Hope you are all having a great conference... Is Joe warbling now... Best Regards Michael Sutton InternetNZ By-election Candidate - Councillor Vote now :) (disgraceful lobby) http://www.internetnz.co.nz/members/by-elections/030619byelection.html http://www.internetnz.co.nz/biographies/bio03-msutton.html -----Original Message----- From: Ewen McNeill [mailto:ewen(a)naos.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:06 To: Hamish MacEwan Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand <snip> It does, however, seem to me rather counter productive to insist that they must use unicast, must use the bandwidth inefficiently, in order to some how deter this. At best all that's likely to achieve is that there's even less bandwidth available for other things. (Witness allocations of the frequency spectrum to radio, TV, etc, and what's left for ham radio operators.) And to make it even harder for "small operators" to join in -- so bang goes your online equivilent of public access TV (it's just too expensive to get a pipe big enough to unicast it to a reasoanble audience). <snip>.... Indeed. And that survives partly because many people "need" to be at work at the same time, which is largely true because of network effects (eg, you'd like the cafe to be open when you want to get morning tea, and people need to be in the same place at the same time for meetings, etc). And in the same way when something "interesting" happens lots of people are going to "need" to see it at once, if only to keep up with the Jones and be able to talk about it at morning tea the next day. To use your earlier analogy providing more buses/trains/etc can help to reduce this congestion. And in the same way multicasting can help reduce the congestion. But apparently buses/trains/etc are good, and multicasting is bad, for reasons I don't follow.

1 0

Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Ewen McNeill 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

In message <20030708092651.GM4808(a)stuckist.macewan.gen.nz>, Hamish MacEwan writes: >On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 13:05 +1200, Ewen McNeill wrote: >> In message <5.2.0.9.0.20030627160856.02023200(a)pele.citylink.co.nz>, Richard Naylor writes: >> >ah - its that word "channel" that I don't see in the future. Such a >> >dated concept. >> >> Ah. Channels are double-plus-ungood. Call it a stream if it makes >> you feel happier. Or VDC or whatever. > >I think Rich's point is broader than "channels," it goes to the notion >of "broadcast," which, while like most things is not going to go away >anytime soon, but the option of obtaining material from P2P or other >sources (Tivo as so aptly observed by Joe) and assembling your own >experience is becoming more feasible, Except that a Tivo listens to (a bunch of) broadcast channels (there, two horrible words in a row!) and caches the "interesting" stuff that it sees for later viewing. The problem, IMHO, is not the broadcasting, or the channels, themselves. It's how people make use of them. Broadcasting is a fairly efficient technique to get information to a whole bunch of people in one go (for them to use now or later). Channels are an efficient way to know which broadcast to listen to for what things. I simply don't buy the argument that says that because the "must watch it when it screens, must watch what they want to show" model of broadcast channels is bad (which I definitely agree with -- I haven't even had a TV for 5+ years), that means that all the components of it (broadcasting, channels, etc) are totally without merit. To get, vaguely, back on topic -- multicasting is just "broadcasting with focus" -- if you like it's a more efficient form of broadcasting for a medium which can handle sending only to interested parties (eg, a packet switched network like the Internet, as opposed to a frequency division "network" like radio waves). >[Spoonfeeding, etc] >This is what makes me leery of attempts to make the Internet a better >broadcast medium than it already isn't. It may make non-broadcast use >more difficult. Unintended consequences, increased core complexity, et al. I'm not especially convinced by this argument either. There's a whole lot of money behind turning the Internet into a "content provision" network -- and I suspect they'll succeed in doing what they want to do irrespective of whether we try to make it more difficult. It does, however, seem to me rather counter productive to insist that they must use unicast, must use the bandwidth inefficiently, in order to some how deter this. At best all that's likely to achieve is that there's even less bandwidth available for other things. (Witness allocations of the frequency spectrum to radio, TV, etc, and what's left for ham radio operators.) And to make it even harder for "small operators" to join in -- so bang goes your online equivilent of public access TV (it's just too expensive to get a pipe big enough to unicast it to a reasoanble audience). [Choose to watch something, join VDC starting it soon] >Yes, like video rental already provides, without the drive there and >back, and PPV on Sky Digital. Yes, like a video rental. Without having to leave the house in the cold of winter. And without having to deal with the fact that some other bastard has taken out the thing you wanted to watch. And, if done properly, without having to watch it all at once so you can return it in time. (I've never seen how PPV on Sky Digital works, so I couldn't say how it compares.) >PS. Road congestion, like unicast broadcast congestion, seems to arise >from the continued belief that we all have to use the road at the same >times (morning and night, Monday-Friday) Indeed. And that survives partly because many people "need" to be at work at the same time, which is largely true because of network effects (eg, you'd like the cafe to be open when you want to get morning tea, and people need to be in the same place at the same time for meetings, etc). And in the same way when something "interesting" happens lots of people are going to "need" to see it at once, if only to keep up with the Jones and be able to talk about it at morning tea the next day. To use your earlier analogy providing more buses/trains/etc can help to reduce this congestion. And in the same way multicasting can help reduce the congestion. But apparently buses/trains/etc are good, and multicasting is bad, for reasons I don't follow. Ewen

2 1

RE: [nznog] Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 Now Law
by Donald Neal 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Let's just bear in mind that postings of a legal nature are discouraged on this list. - Donald Neal List Administrator Donald Neal | Doctor: Did you see what I didn't see? Technical Specialist | Romana: No. Operations Engineering| Doctor: Nor did I. Alcatel NZ Ltd | - Douglas Adams, Shada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 5

Re: [nznog] Multicast status in New Zealand
by Ewen McNeill 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

In message <5.2.0.9.0.20030627160856.02023200(a)pele.citylink.co.nz>, Richard Nayl or writes: >At 03:54 p.m. 27/06/2003 +1200, Ewen McNeill wrote: >>In message <5.2.0.9.0.20030627141054.038683c0(a)pele.citylink.co.nz>, >>Richard Naylor writes: >> >>[Multicast] >> >Well the biggest part of the business is video on demand and that can >> >really only be unicast as getting viewers to agree on what they watch is >> >like agreeing on a TV Channel in a huge flat - hopeless. >> >>[... "on demand" doesn't necessarily mean "instantly" ...] >>Which means that for popular stuff that is "on demand" it might not be >>enough to have one channel with it, where the wait time is, say, 15 >>minutes for it to cycle around -- but it might be fine to have 10-20 >>channels, suitably staggered, where the wait time was 1-2 minutes. > >ah - its that word "channel" that I don't see in the future. Such a dated >concept. Ah. Channels are double-plus-ungood. Call it a stream if it makes you feel happier. Or VDC or whatever. >Instead, you're interested in Alastair Cook. Why should you wait til Monday >at 8:45 every week and then miss it because you were on the phone. I don't recall suggesting that you should. >Hey you have 10 minutes now and would like to catch up with what he said last >Monday (when you were on the phone, remember). So why can't you click in >now and view it ? Your argument seems to be "viewers must be able to view it __NOW__(tm)" and hence we must use unicast for everything in order that everyone can have their whim satisifed at an instants notice (and provide all the bandwidth from source to (multiple) sink(s) to make this possible). My argument is that there's a fair chunk of evidence that says that people would be willing to wait 1, 2, 5, 10, 30, or even 60 seconds for something to start (maybe even longer if it's a sizeable time investment to watch it all and the waiting time can be used productively -- eg, getting that beer out of the fridge before settling down to watch the game), especially given a proper cost/benefit tradeoff ("would you pay 5 times as much to be able to have it start within half a second instead of within 5 seconds"?). And that by adding that relaxing condition it's both quite feasible, and quite benefical, to use multicast at least for the more popular things, especially where the multicast VDCs is set up "on demand" with just a short "setup time" to pull in other potential viewers. Think of it as the difference between everyone just crossing the road when they feel like it, and traffic lights (or at very least waiting for the same gap in the traffic). The big reason that it's beneficial in the popular-to-(re)view situation is that there're more people wanting to view something than there are 5-second, 10-second, 30-second, 60-second, whatever start periods. So you can achieve an N:M reduction in the number of VDC you need originating from the source, for only the price of a bit of management infrastructure (request-a-start-soon), and a slightly slip from the "I wanna watch it now! Now! Now! Mommy, make it go!" instant satisfaction. >Multicast is great for synchronous events like TRADITIONAL tv. I just don't >see that continuing. It's good for things other than traditional TV too. Especially where there's (significantly) more than one person wanting to watch something at the "same" time. Which is a surprisingly common case for "current" events. (Speech replays, sports replays, recent movie releases, etc.) Oh, and I quite agree with Joe's comment that caching at the edge can achieve quite remarkable things in turning "watch now or miss it" into "watch when you feel like it". (And even better, if those with suitable broadcast channels would actually get a clue and use the "down" time to spool out things people might want to watch during the week (eg, "this week's hot new movies"). But "video recorders are bad, we must do everything to defeat the use of video recorders". Furrfu.) Ewen

8 7

RE: [nznog] Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 Now Law
by Stephen Andrew 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

----Original Message---- From: Tony McGregor [mailto:tonym(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Tuesday, 8 July 2003 2:46 PM To: Stephen Andrew Subject: RE: [nznog] Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 Now Law > Since access means "make use of any of the resources of the computer > system" and "access without authorisation" includes "directly or > indirectly" didn't the internet just become illegal? > > I have no authorisation to access most of the routers and SNMP > gateways my packets went through to get to you. You can probably get around it using the argument that subsection (2) makes any access at all legal as long as you were given permission to do something first; "(1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who intentionally accesses, directly or indirectly, any computer system without authorisation, knowing that he or she is not authorised to access that computer system, or being reckless as to whether or not he or she is authorised to access that computer system. "(2) To avoid doubt, subsection (1) does not apply if a person who is authorised to access a computer system accesses that computer system for a purpose other than the one for which that person was given access. Presumably this means privelege escalation is legal. By putting up a public web/mail/router service you are implying authorised access for some purpose (viewing a web page, sending an email, making packets go from A to B) thus /any/ use is now legal (as long as it it not dishonest by the terms of the act). -- Andrew This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way.

10 16

Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 Now Law
by David Farrar 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

For those interested. INZ will also put a copy of the Act on its website once this is available. DPF "The Crimes Amendment Bill No 6 has now come into force as The Crimes Amendment Act 2003. This Act, amending the 1961 Crimes Act, may potentially affect many internet users and providers. It has been commonly known as the anti-hacking bill. InternetNZ has done a brief paper on aspects of the Act which may affect internet users and providers. The paper is at http://www.internetnz.net.nz/public/committee-reports/ctte-legal-and-regula… or http://tinyurl.com/g9vj ISPs may wish to get professional legal advice on their obligations under the Act. If enough ISPs thought it would be useful, InternetNZ could consider getting generic advice for the industry generally."

4 3

Re: [nznog] Netsites Domain Name Changes page offline?
by Ewen McNeill 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

In message <3F095736.9020504(a)paradise.net.nz>, Steven Heath writes: >http://www.netlink.co.nz/~mark/netsites-growth.html [still updated] > >DNC has said since last year 'we are planning to offer .nz stats soon'. >I even offered to do them for free. There are stats in, eg, the DNC Newsletters which are linked from: http://www.dnc.org.nz/index.php?clsid=1&catid=34 ("Newsletters" on the DNC site -- I'm not sure how stable the URL above is.) According to the summaries the stats seem to go back to the start of the year. Alas, they're buried in tables in PDF files and so harder to extract. And in a two-for-one-special: In message <200307071157.XAA0000429877(a)bats.mcs.vuw.ac.nz>, Mark Davies writes: >> [netsite changes suspended pending zone tranfer policy review] > >I got asked on 1 July by Nick Griffin to not publish the changes list until >some review I wasn't aware of that is apparently currently happening was >completed. Interesting. Neither Keith Davidson nor I was able to find an online reference to this review on either the DNC site or the InternetNZ site. Keith Davidson thinks it must have been mentioned only in hard copy form. I've already suggested it'd be nice if such reviews were notified a bit more publically so affected people could comment on them. >Well the growth stats are the primary reason I'm still doing it. The >other pages merely fall out from doing that. Sure. The other pages are the more useful though at least to any non-maths analysis. Especially the search page since the current whois doesn't support any wildcarding. Ewen

2 1

Re: [nznog] Netsites Domain Name Changes page offline?
by David Farrar 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Ewen wrote: > There are stats in, eg, the DNC Newsletters which are > linked from: > > http://www.dnc.org.nz/index.php?clsid=1&catid=34 > According to the summaries the stats seem to go back to > the start of the year. Alas, they're buried in tables in > PDF files and so harder to extract. I have in Excel the stats from 1993 onwards. Mark's stats I have used up until the launch of the SRS. From then on I have gone off the (public) NZRS stats. As under the SRS one can now register a name but not have it in the zone file, the NZRS stats are a couple of hundred higher. They exclude those in the "pending release" category though. If anyone wants a copy, I'm happy to pass over my spreadsheet - even the nice blue graphs for each 2LD :-) > Sure. The other pages are the more useful though at least > to any non-maths analysis. Especially the search page > since the current whois doesn't support any wildcarding. The problem with the changes page is that spammers had started to use them as a source of domain names and e-mail addresses. There were several complaints about a spammer, who said he had got the info off Mark's pages. Hopefully there are ways to minimise or prevent the pages from being of use to spammers, but allow their continued legitimate use. I refer to Mark's pages often and find them a good resource, but as always spammers stuff things up! DPF

1 0

RE: [nznog] Multicast and InternetNZ By-Election - I stand forpro moting mult icast on the Public Network
by Michael Sutton 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Chris The setup of the Multicast Network Border Peering is not hard. The content provider who injects the multicast is protected from unicast server cost overruns, while client customers pay for all their bandwidth and data received. If the tariff is based on bytes then multicast would generate ISP revenue for the network that delivers it to the client. In so far as content providers using multicast: As someone who has concurrently delivered live Radio New Zealand BBC World, XtraMsn Music Channels as well as Compaq || Hewlett Packard and Ministry of Health Live events, all of these content streams, where possible, used dial-in multicast for the Xtra network and would have used multicast via adsl for all events if possible. Michael Auspices & pretence - we will find out :) -----Original Message----- From: Chris Hellberg [mailto:Chris.Hellberg(a)telecom.co.nz] Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 07:55 To: Joe Abley; Michael Sutton Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] Multicast and InternetNZ By-Election - I stand forpromoting mult icast on the Public Network And with what pretence or auspices would multicast peering be set up between peers? I'm a bit dubious that that apart from the tinker factor, there's nothing to really justify the effort that goes in to setting up MSDP, MOSPF, PIM, etc, so unless someone comes up with a content goldmine and charging regime, most customers of multicast-enabled networks aren't going to care that their traffic has a wierd 224.12.3.4 DA and their ISP gets bandwidth savings from such traffic. All very much my own opinions. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley(a)automagic.org] Sent: Mon 7/7/2003 4:51 PM To: Michael Sutton Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Multicast and InternetNZ By-Election - I stand forpromoting mult icast on the Public Network On Monday, Jul 7, 2003, at 00:08 Canada/Eastern, Michael Sutton wrote: > I am standing as a Candidate for Councillor on a platform to encourage > IP4 multicast peering and service to users of the public Internet in > New Zealand. There is significant effort within InternetNZ to > encourage NGI and IP6, however, this can not provide immediate public > access to multicast services. I'm interested to know what influence you think the InternetNZ council has over network operators, and how they might dictate what protocols operators decide to deploy in their networks. Joe _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --

2 1

Abuse desk responses
by Steve Phillips 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Has anyone else here had problems with NZ ISP abuse complaint responses ? mainly in response to SPAM reports where they refuse to do anything until they get blacklisted but also covering network abuse (DOS type scenario's and the like) ? It appears that abuse complains are more and more regularly falling on deaf ears where the person/team handling the abuse desk seems more concerned with pointing out how it is not their problem than actually trying to educate their end users as to correct practices. This does not appear to be restricted to smaller ISP's either as the main offender (though not limited to) in this case appears to be paradise. -- Steve.

18 22

Multicast and InternetNZ By-Election - I stand for promoting mult icast on the Public Network
by Michael Sutton 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Remembering our postings on multicast over the several past weeks... I have been motivated to act.. Please excuse my partly OT posting with a multicast bias... Many of you are extremely busy this week with the Conference and it may pass attention of those who are also members of InternetNZ that a By-election is occurring for Secretary and Councillor. Voting closes on the 14th July. I am standing as a Candidate for Councillor on a platform to encourage IP4 multicast peering and service to users of the public Internet in New Zealand. There is significant effort within InternetNZ to encourage NGI and IP6, however, this can not provide immediate public access to multicast services. If elected I will make every effort to encourage implementation of multicast services via public networks. I encourage those of you who are InternetNZ members to review the candidates and cast your vote. Please e-mail off-line or call directly if you want to speak with me on this matter. I enclose links to my bio etc... Best Regards... Michael Sutton http://www.awacs.co.nz http://www.internetnz.co.nz/biographies/bio03-msutton.html http://www.internetnz.co.nz/members/by-elections/030619byelection.html

3 2

Netsites Domain Name Changes page offline?
by Bruce Fitzsimons 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

Hi everyone, Can anyone shed any light on why the useful, but not-that-well-known page at: http://webpages.netlink.co.nz/~mark/netsites-changes.html is off line? Who is the NZOC? I guess lots of people doing the same thing would be bad, but this page has been around for yonks. Its very interesting to review from time to time, even if its just for a giggle about the weird domain names people choose (and later release back to the world, my my we're lucky). Thanks /Bruce

3 2

Re: [nznog] Netsites Domain Name Changes page offline?
by Ewen McNeill 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

In message <05a801c3446e$cb07c040$0a21970a(a)norris>, "Bruce Fitzsimons" writes: >Can anyone shed any light on why the useful, but not-that-well-known page at: > >http://webpages.netlink.co.nz/~mark/netsites-changes.html > >is off line? Who is the NZOC? NZOC == New Zealand (DNS) Oversight Committee, which is the committee in InternetNZ which "oversees" the Domain Name Commissioner's office. I wasn't aware that they were (still) conducting a review (again), and Mark's "changes" list seems (at first glance) to be consistent with the existing zone transfer policies. I know that Mark updated those scripts recently ('cause I prompted him to do so, since some links were out of date including the ones for whois) -- maybe it just picked up a copy of a "in progress" version of the script generating the changes file? >I guess lots of people doing the same thing would be bad, but this page has >been around for yonks. As I understand it, that was the main reason (in an earlier interation of setting zone transfer restrictions) for allowing Mark's scripts to keep going -- it was one point where people could look for changes, rather than everyone doing their own zone transfers. Ewen

1 0

Conference Attendance
by Simon Lyall 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

A quick question but are the sessions being recorded and available for later download? I've noticed a couple of sessions I'm interested in opposite each other and also had queries from people at ihug not attending (who said they like watching nanog recorded sessions). I got feedback from a couple of people (one attending, one not) after my requested on Thursday. Both said that the conference is "mainly being a chance to sit in a room with other engineers and sort out new fun stuff." The one who wasn't going said there wern't enough sessions they were interested in (or more directly related to their work) to convince their boss to let them have time off and/or pay for them. "So what would work consider worthwhile? More bleeding edge technology stuff, new product things, more seriously detailed technology discussions (eg a panel about QoS and the various algorithms used and why, might be something that'd attract the Telco types). " -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz Ihug Ltd, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz

1 0

Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time
by Dominic O'Hare 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

The owner of the site is in Ft Lauderdale, Florida. ----- Original Message ----- From: <nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:13 AM Subject: Nznog Digest, Vol 7, Issue 13 > Send Nznog mailing list submissions to > nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nznog-request(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nznog-owner(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Nznog digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Conference Attendance (Andy Gardner) > 2. Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Peter Macaulay) > 3. RE: Abuse desk responses (Neil Gardner) > 4. Re: Abuse desk responses (Michael Hallager) > 5. Re: Abuse desk responses (Edward Yardley) > 6. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Dan Clark) > 7. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Keith Davidson) > 8. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Peter Macaulay) > 9. Re: Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time (Mark Thompson) > 10. Re: Abuse desk responses (Russell Fulton) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:28:38 -0500 > From: Andy Gardner <andy(a)navigator.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Conference Attendance > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <B273F2FC-AF72-11D7-93B2-000393ABF064(a)navigator.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > On Friday, July 4, 2003, at 05:07 AM, Keith Davidson wrote: > > > I'll also be at Unforum for a couple of days, just to rub noses with > > the > > penguin huggers :-) Look forward to putting some names to faces, > > and to > > heckling Joe Abley at every opportunity ... > > > Gee, and here I was thinking you were doing a talk on how to destroy > nz.general through incessant punning. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:59:02 +1200 > From: Peter Macaulay <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Subject: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > To: "members-discuss >> InternetNZ Members Discussion List" > <members-discuss(a)internetnz.net.nz>, nznog <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <3F07BAA6.2030505(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > -- > Peter Macaulay > Executive Director > InternetNZ > Direct +64 4 495 2113 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:08:46 +1200 > From: "Neil Gardner" <neil(a)neilnz.com> > Subject: RE: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <000001c341e1$f7806620$6b63a8c0(a)delta> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Steve Phillips [mailto:steve(a)focb.co.nz] > >Has anyone else here had problems with NZ ISP abuse complaint responses > ? > >mainly in response to SPAM reports where they refuse to do anything > until > >they get blacklisted but also covering network abuse (DOS type > scenario's > >and the like) ? > > Yep, although in most cases it appears to be from a lack of organisation > in getting the complaints to the right person rather than a systemic > neglect of the issue. Recently I tried for 2 weeks through proper > channels to get an obviously infected ADSL customer disabled and > informed of their problem, to no avail, and culminating in the Helpdesk > telling me that the Abuse people only worked form midnight to 8am a > couple of days a week!!!! > > Obviously what he meant was that the person that dealt with it in the > NOC was next rostered on for a midnight to 8am shift, but it's NOT what > he said. > > Anyway, I posted the details on this list and someone from the > appropriate ISP saw it and had the issue resolved in 30 minutes. > > But there should be some sort of internally monitored helpdesk with > escalation for complaints like that - I know of a number of (admittedly > corporate and not cheap - HEAT and Magic spring to mind) that do this > sort of thing very well). > > Out of interest, are any ISP reps here prepared to admit how they track > issues, specifically something like complaints to abuse(a)isp.co.nz where > there could be a lot of incoming jobs? > > Cheers - Neil G > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:18:51 +1200 > From: Michael Hallager <michael(a)networkstuff.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > To: "Neil Gardner" <neil(a)neilnz.com> > Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Message-ID: <200307062118.51406.michael(a)networkstuff.co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello, > > At Vivid Computers / Vivid Net, all abuse(a)vivid.net.nz email comes to myself > - as the Systems Administrator - for prompt action. > > Michael Hallager > Networkstuff Limited > http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > From: Steve Phillips [mailto:steve(a)focb.co.nz] > > > > >Has anyone else here had problems with NZ ISP abuse complaint responses > > > > ? > > > > >mainly in response to SPAM reports where they refuse to do anything > > > > until > > > > >they get blacklisted but also covering network abuse (DOS type > > > > scenario's > > > > >and the like) ? > > > > Yep, although in most cases it appears to be from a lack of organisation > > in getting the complaints to the right person rather than a systemic > > neglect of the issue. Recently I tried for 2 weeks through proper > > channels to get an obviously infected ADSL customer disabled and > > informed of their problem, to no avail, and culminating in the Helpdesk > > telling me that the Abuse people only worked form midnight to 8am a > > couple of days a week!!!! > > > > Obviously what he meant was that the person that dealt with it in the > > NOC was next rostered on for a midnight to 8am shift, but it's NOT what > > he said. > > > > Anyway, I posted the details on this list and someone from the > > appropriate ISP saw it and had the issue resolved in 30 minutes. > > > > But there should be some sort of internally monitored helpdesk with > > escalation for complaints like that - I know of a number of (admittedly > > corporate and not cheap - HEAT and Magic spring to mind) that do this > > sort of thing very well). > > > > Out of interest, are any ISP reps here prepared to admit how they track > > issues, specifically something like complaints to abuse(a)isp.co.nz where > > there could be a lot of incoming jobs? > > > > Cheers - Neil G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > -- > Michael Hallager > Managing Director > Networkstuff Limited > > http://www.networkstuff.co.nz > michael @ networkstuff.co.nz > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:58:57 +1200 > From: "Edward Yardley" <edward(a)edan.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <011501c343a5$37e58780$3d00000a(a)sebastian> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I've found the same thing with Paradise/Telstra Clear's responses. > > Edward. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <nznog(a)neilnz.com> > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 4:15 PM > Subject: RE: [nznog] Abuse desk responses > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Steve Phillips [mailto:steve(a)focb.co.nz] > > >Has anyone else here had problems with NZ ISP abuse complaint responses > > ? > > >mainly in response to SPAM reports where they refuse to do anything > > until > > >they get blacklisted but also covering network abuse (DOS type > > scenario's > > >and the like) ? > > > > Yep, although in most cases it appears to be from a lack of organisation > > in getting the complaints to the right person rather than a systemic > > neglect of the issue. Recently I tried for 2 weeks through proper > > channels to get an obviously infected ADSL customer disabled and > > informed of their problem, to no avail, and culminating in the Helpdesk > > telling me that the Abuse people only worked form midnight to 8am a > > couple of days a week!!!! > > > > Obviously what he meant was that the person that dealt with it in the > > NOC was next rostered on for a midnight to 8am shift, but it's NOT what > > he said. > > > > Anyway, I posted the details on this list and someone from the > > appropriate ISP saw it and had the issue resolved in 30 minutes. > > > > But there should be some sort of internally monitored helpdesk with > > escalation for complaints like that - I know of a number of (admittedly > > corporate and not cheap - HEAT and Magic spring to mind) that do this > > sort of thing very well). > > > > Out of interest, are any ISP reps here prepared to admit how they track > > issues, specifically something like complaints to abuse(a)isp.co.nz where > > there could be a lot of incoming jobs? > > > > Cheers - Neil G > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:17:22 +1200 > From: "Dan Clark" <dan(a)scarfies.net> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > To: "Peter Macaulay" <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz>, "members-discuss >> > InternetNZ Members Discussion List" > <members-discuss(a)internetnz.net.nz>, "nznog" > <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <00be01c343a7$d49611b0$150210ac(a)morpheus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all, > Any examples of defaced sites??? > > Regards > Dan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Macaulay" <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz> > To: "members-discuss >> InternetNZ Members Discussion List" > <members-discuss(a)internetnz.net.nz>; "nznog" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 5:59 PM > Subject: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > > > > > > -- > > Peter Macaulay > > Executive Director > > InternetNZ > > Direct +64 4 495 2113 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Nznog mailing list > > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:39:28 +1200 > From: "Keith Davidson" <keith(a)wise.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > To: "nznog" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <00d901c343aa$e0970200$4db724ca(a)wise.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi all, > > Any examples of defaced sites??? > > www.scarfies.net :-) > > I still can't get through to www.defacers-challenge.com, which was supposed > to be listing the hacked sites... > > Keith Davidson > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:00:10 +1200 > From: Peter Macaulay <exe.dir(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time > Cc: nznog <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Message-ID: <3F08013A.8070405(a)internetnz.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Haven't seen any yet and zone-h showed only a slight increase before the > DNOS attack clogged their 100mb totally. The originator runs a > 'brazilian' site based out of the US, and his/her email is from > somewhere in France. The Estonian link is for the time of the challenge > and the time is according to zone-h which is estonian (Tallin) > ;-) Just showing I have done my homework before putting on the makeup > and getting demolished by Hoskin and Hawkesbury. > > Keith Davidson wrote: > > >>Hi all, > >> Any examples of defaced sites??? > >> > >> > > > >www.scarfies.net :-) > > > >I still can't get through to www.defacers-challenge.com, which was supposed > >to be listing the hacked sites... > > > >Keith Davidson > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Nznog mailing list > >Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > >http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > > -- > Peter Macaulay > Executive Director > InternetNZ > Direct +64 4 495 2113 > >

1 0

Hackers Challenge started at 1500 NZ time
by Peter Macaulay 06 Jul '03

06 Jul '03

-- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

5 5

Conference Attendance
by Tony McGregor 05 Jul '03

05 Jul '03

There will be a bunch of people there from the WAND group. The speaker discounts made it possible for us. Can someone confirm that there will be connectivity (inc wireless) at the conference? Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095(w) +64 7 825 5047(h) Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 6

Net4U Thread
by Donald Neal 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

The current (or immediately past?) thread dealing with Net4U contains some postings which are clearly within this list's acceptable use policy, and some which are not. In brief, postings which discuss operational or technical issues - and an ISP using spam to advertise does look to me like one of those - are in. Postings containing "character assassination or lack of respect for other participants" are out. Whether they cause deformation or not. For myself, I'd like to see no further additions to the thread unless they come from people who have something new and relevant to say. - Donald Neal ex cathedra, or something Donald Neal | Doctor: Did you see what I didn't see? Technical Specialist | Romana: No. Operations Engineering| Doctor: Nor did I. Alcatel NZ Ltd | - Douglas Adams, Shada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 1

WTB: APE bandwidth
by Michael Hallager 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Hello all, Could ISP's that have connections to the APE please contact me with their prices for bandwidth to equipment located at APE. Kind regards, Michael Hallager Managing Director Networkstuff Limited http://www.networkstuff.co.nz michael @ networkstuff.co.nz

1 0

Re: [nznog] APE Peering
by - 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Sahil said to me, as well as publically on the site that the "auditor's" report would be made available publically on the website. After a number of months I saw him again, and casually asked, whats up with that auditor's report, and he shrugged it off, as if to say "that was a joke". Secondly Sahil obviously did know about it, so shrugging it off as his staff's fault is amusing in the least

9 11

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Chris O'Donoghue 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Well perhaps you should work on your management a bit more. It took all of about 5 seconds to convince me that this was worthwhile for my sysadmins to attend. But then again maybe I'm biased, cos I went last year. Chris Chris O'Donoghue Technology Manager Online & Digital TVNZ -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Brooking [mailto:jeremy(a)morenet.net.nz] Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 1:01 p.m. To: Simon Lyall Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering Simon Lyall wrote: ><grump> >By which I assume you make less than $20,000 per year and live in central >Auckland. Seriously it's $250 per day, if you go on two days thats $500 >bucks. $20/per weeek if you started saving at the start of the year when >this was first mentioned (and I think I told people to start saving). > >If you present you get that day free. If you talk your work into a 5% >training budget then it'll cover it. > >Exactly what sort of pricing could you afford? I remmeber the little ISP >forum that Internetnz had a couple of years back, that was $50 per day and >nobody much attended. ></grump> > > Perhaps my _insane_ comment was a bit of an overstatement. First post I saw regarding it was 9th of 3rd. So that would make it about $50 a week. And of course, we all have $50 spare a week dont we? _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog ================================================================ CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains information that is intended to be read only by the named recipient(s). It may contain information that is confidential, proprietary or the subject of legal privilege. This information is not to be used by any other person and/or organisation. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise us immediately and delete this e-mail from your system. Do not use any information contained in it. ================================================================ For more information on nzoom.com, visit us online at http://www.nzoom.com ================================================================

1 0

Netforum - I'm in !
by Tim John 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

> On another note, Whos going to Netforum? > A quick survey of Auckland Thursday Night Curry attendees didn't look too > promising.. Chris and I from Domainz are coming up for the Thursday and Friday. We'll be the ones hiding in the shadows :) We're looking forward to Joe's presentation ... and of course the curry on Thursday ! Tim DISCLAIMER: The content of this email is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity named above. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that the use, distribution and publication of the above information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact Domainz by returning the email and destroying the original. Thank you.

2 1

19" Cases.....
by Roger De Salis 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

I have built two self assembly 19" cases, simply designed to be a simple as possible, and extremely low cost. Unit One, 2.5RU (ie the same height as a standard PCI card.) 450mm deep. Accepts standard power supply, any ATX board (full, mini, micro). Combos are Std CDROM + Floppy + 6 drives OR up to 10 disk drives without CDROM/Floppy Assembly. No risers. One case fan (included). Unit Two, Same Height as standard ATX power supply 90mm, 2RU, 275mm deep. Accepts micro ATX board only. Accepts Standard ATX power supply. Accepts laptop 1/3high floppy and CDROM (which I can supply if required) $169 for CD, $79 for floppy. Accepts 1/2 high PCI Cards only. No risers Unit Two currently supports 1 x 3.5" DD and 3 x 2.5"DD. Production version will likely be modded to accept 2 x 3.5"DD and 2 x 2.5" DD ========================================================== Removable 19" Rack wings on both. Mounting combinations are: Flush front, recess 50mm, centre pillar mount, or reverse mount, and 50mm recessed reversed. The intention is to place a full shelf underneath the base unit, then I would not have any qualms about 4-5 racked up on top of each other. There is currently no provision for slides, but if someone was desperate..... Henry Ford Colour scheme. NZ$260+GST complete with PSU, wiring assembly pwr/hdd assy, screws. Netforum Special NZ$230+GST. I'll have three units on show at the Waipuna next week if someone wants to look/dicuss. The second small unit was intended to complement Cisco 2600 in a rack, but also be the right size for home stereo with silent PSU and 2.5"DDs, so if you want to buy your own power supply, knock $35 off the price. Further discounts for quantity (ie 4up.) If you want to buy just the metalwork, and make up your own, happy to oblige... Basically I run them as telephone controllers, log servers etc etc, with a Duron 1300, MSI 6787 board with LAN on-board, single drive and CD for approx $700, rack mounted with a 2 year warranty on everything. About 14 day delivery. I'll include a couple of JPEG's later this morning. Rgds Roger De Salis -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)fx.net.nz </' FX Networks +64 25 481 452 /) Wellington, New Zealand roger(a)desalis.gen.nz (/ ` Bentley win Le Mans! - What next, English win cricket in Aus?

1 0

Net4U's earlier actions
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Hi, Firstly, I'd like to apologise for actions made earlier during the day with respect to a mailout to a certain group of ISP's. I wasnt thinking clearly when I thought to add a few more addresses to the mailout to existing contacts. My bad, wont be repeated. As Richard has suggested, if anyone has any concerns or issues that need addressing, please contact us off-list. Just for those that were concerned, issues with abuse(a)net4u.co.nz have now been resolved. Once again, my apologies for the drama here in NZNOG. Regards, Sahil Gupta Senior Account Manager NET4U LIMITED Phone: 0508-263-848 Fax: 07-8582659 Mobile: 029-366-6375

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

You have some valid points here. The whole thing is quite disappointing, and for many, quite frustrating. This abuse(a)net4u is also becoming a sore point, and clearly there has been an issue with this address. I can only chase up as much as was passed on to me. There are a number of other recommended tasks which were to be carried out but have not :( Please contact me off-list with more details, and I will be happy to deal with things. As I said, I'm sill helping Net4U (Unpaid I might add) here and there when I am not involved with my regular clients. If anyone else is reading this and has ANY issues with Net4U that have been ignored, please feel free to contact me off-list or directly on 021409987, and I will to my best to deal with things. This is not the place for this nonsense, so lets get all this off-list, contact me, and lets get everyone happy. If no one has any other abuse they want to throw this way, perhaps we can move back to other interesting threads such as Multicast which I enjoyed following? How about why ISP's should/shouldn't be able to control assignment of IP addresses on ADSL Starter? Anyone have any views on this? Cheers, Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Howes [mailto:mish(a)doomx.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 6:49 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Each time the topic of Net4u has come up I've resisted posting as previously the entire situation was already at boiling point, but suggesting people are here to play when they're obviously just frustrated by actions that they see as detremental and disrespectful to other New Zealand Network Operators really rubs me the wrong way. Net4u does seem to be operating in a more legal fashion than before but they're still not admin friendly by any stretch of the imagination. I've received spam from net4u customers to domains I previously managed, I contacted Net4u to advise them of this ( abuse(a)net4u.co.nz) but have never received any response. I was also informed of a 'hole' in their security through which anyone can log into the net4u network and gain free ADSL service by use of an 'admin' account, I emailed the administrator of net4u to advise of this but despite sending two emails I never received a response and (I just tested) the hole still seems to be wide open. I'm glad you see the spam from Net4u as a bad thing as even though the operators of Net4u are (reasonably) new to the game, in this 'net enabled' age even the newest player has no excuse for thinking that unsolicited commercial email to a soa address is a good idea, the same goes for their previous dubious actions. You can feel free to view comments like these as 'pettiness' but I for one am glad to be informed of the actions (or inaction) of New Zealand ISPs even if the observations are at times coloured by external factors. -- Regards, Dave Howes.

1 0

LOL - Tis so odd.....
by Michael Hallager 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Richard's entire post looks clearly like a Sahil marketing effort: COPY We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. /COPY YEAH RIGHT. We all have the MP3 of Sahil BOASTING about taking bandwidth. How do you reconcile that with your above claim? I think we would all like the answer. Sahil also ropes his friends into fronting for him, including doing the following actions, both people have admitted that Sahil got them to contact me: 1) Sending me an abusive email 2) Contacting me to rent several thousand dollars worth of equipment that I would never loan to Sahil. COPY > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > justification for this blatant deformation. /COPY Don't like the heat, get out of the fire. You knew full well what you were getting into when you associated yourself with Net4u by doing this contracting job. COPY It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. /COPY OK, whatever. I have a small **** or a demon or whatever (This is starting to sound like whacky religious stuff). How did you KNOW??? Michael Hallager Managing Director Networkstuff / Comsolve

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Thanks Dan. There are one or two ISP's and their administrators out there that have been VERY generous, sympathetic and helpful towards Sahil & Net4U and yet more who have been giving Net4U advise, and telling him off when needed :). As I say, Net4U are "growing up" slowly, but like me, are bound to make mistakes along the way. I enjoy helping others where help is needed, but sometimes this pisses other people off, especially those that don't think that particular person or business deserves to be helped or to get ahead, and I'm not just talking about Net4U. Anyway, rest assured, he has just had a verbal assault from me for yet again, not thinking carefully and using common sense before acting. ie sending Spam etc Thanks for your patience and understanding everyone. He wont be doing that again. :) Cheers, Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Clark [mailto:dan(a)scarfies.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 4:04 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering I have to agree with Richard here, the problem is the young man who set this particular ISP up has historicly been ignorant as to some of the ethical rules and unwritten policy's of the internet community. We all make mistakes and maybe he just needs a little guidance and support from fellow ISP's who, will no doubt have started from penny's in the early days themselves. Regards Dan Clark Network Manager Scarfies.Net Ltd ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard <mailto:Richard(a)sigel.co.nz> Parkinson To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 3:35 PM Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. We no longer oversee the operation of Net4U, but have kept in touch with them, and assist with other matters both business related and technical, and feel Net4U & Sahil are slowly "growing up" so to speak, but I expect mystiques will still be made from time to time. None of us are perfect. I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no justification for this blatant deformation. I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters are. It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. Without naming anyone, I would also like to point out that there are those of you on this list making such accusations who are the last people to do so, or should we raise the matter of a VAST amount of bandwidth stolen from Telecom for a number of months, by a much larger ISP than Net4U, who even taught another ISP's network administrator how to do it only days before Telecom figured it all out... or perhaps I could send the list a copy of some forged court documents? To these few people I say, I suggest you stop stirring the pot and leave the past alone, or you will get more than just a little of it on you. I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Cheers, Richard Parkinson (Director) Sigel Data Systems Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 2:13 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; Steve Phillips Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering If anyone had forgotten, where is the "Report" from Sigel Systems about Net4u's runnings over the last 3 months. I believe the impartial 3rd party was hired as one of net4u's staff a very short while after (so couldn't be impartial) Thanks Craig > >> >[snippage] > > > We can deliver using several methods as I've outlined above and can also > > > take care of transporting your existing I.P. Address ranges supplied to > > > you by your current provider to us. > > That would be a neat trick. Almost worth taking him up on that just to > watch him fail dismally. _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _____ _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

2 1

APE Peering
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Hi, This announcement is more centered towards Network Administrators at ISP's that are connected to the APE. Net4U (www.net4u.co.nz) connected to the APE since May 2003 and since then have been peering with a number of ISP's around the country. We are currently looking for more ISP's to peer with and so if you feel that we could have a domestic peering arrangement between your ISP and Net4U, please get back to me off-list as we would be more than happy to do so. Regards, Sahil Gupta Senior Account Manager NET4U LIMITED Phone: 0508-263-848 Fax: 07-8582659 Mobile: 029-366-6375

7 6

APE Peering
by Richard Patterson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. We no longer oversee the operation of Net4U, but have kept in touch with them, and assist with other matters both business related and technical, and feel Net4U & Sahil are slowly "growing up" so to speak, but I expect mystiques will still be made from time to time. None of us are perfect. I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no justification for this blatant deformation. I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters are. It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. Without naming anyone, I would also like to point out that there are those of you on this list making such accusations who are the last people to do so, or should we raise the matter of a VAST amount of bandwidth stolen from Telecom for a number of months, by a much larger ISP than Net4U, who even taught another ISP's network administrator how to do it only days before Telecom figured it all out... or perhaps I could send the list a copy of some forged court documents? To these few people I say, I suggest you stop stirring the pot and leave the past alone, or you will get more than just a little of it on you. I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Cheers, Richard Parkinson (Director) Sigel Data Systems Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 2:13 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; Steve Phillips Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering If anyone had forgotten, where is the "Report" from Sigel Systems about Net4u's runnings over the last 3 months. I believe the impartial 3rd party was hired as one of net4u's staff a very short while after (so couldn't be impartial) Thanks Craig > >> >[snippage] > > > We can deliver using several methods as I've outlined above and can also > > > take care of transporting your existing I.P. Address ranges supplied to > > > you by your current provider to us. > > That would be a neat trick. Almost worth taking him up on that just to > watch him fail dismally. _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

6 5

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Simon Byrnand 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

At 15:35 3/07/03 +1200, Richard Parkinson wrote: >I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had >I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, >I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business >and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about >increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" >which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters >are. > Sorry, but that doesn't wash with me, or I suspect most members of the list. Spam is Spam whether its trying to sell me Viagra or Bandwidth. Anybody that received that mailout (fortunately I didn't) who had no previous business dealings with Net4U could be legitimately annoyed by it. The sample "message" appeared to be addressed to soa@ which suggests it might have been taken from domain or APNIC contact details. >It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an >issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject >at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological >disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from >school, dishing out what you received. > Pot, Kettle, Black ? Regards, Simon

2 1

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

I did say disagree with the "spam" method used. I agree this thread is a waste of time and should die. -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gordon(a)morenet.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:47 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering Richard, Was there any point to that message at all? Firstly, spam is spam, not "distributed" email. It is unsolicited commercial email, which this was. Secondly, I think you'll find that ANY provider that has previously behaved as poorly would attract a similar response. I really don't care if they are mystical or deformed, this is a breach of what is generally accepted as "acceptable conduct". Perhaps this thread should die - it has very little to do with network operations. Gordon Smith CCNA Network Operations Manager MoreNet Ltd PGP Fingerprint: 4B12 FBE4 784A 3294 6637 4587 AB6F C893 AB2C 952C

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

And I knew this as soon as I saw it hit the list. Cheers -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Poole [mailto:lists(a)p00le.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:45 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson Cc: NZNOG Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering Getting very OT here, but that word is EXCEPT! On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > Accept for a spelling error or two. :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Juha Saarinen [ mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] > Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:44 p.m. > Cc: NZNOG > Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering > > > > On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > > > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > > justification for this blatant deformation. > > Priceless. > > > -- > Juha Saarinen > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > >

1 0

RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Accept for a spelling error or two. :) -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:44 p.m. Cc: NZNOG Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > justification for this blatant deformation. Priceless. -- Juha Saarinen _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

2 1