- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Allister Clarke 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

The advantage to Auckland - and Im pretty certain that if I asked, I could get us a venue in the Manukau Institute of Technology IS Dept - Is the reduced travel for a fair number of NZNOG'rs who work in/around Auckland - and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly direct to Auckland. * What is equipment like at the ManukauIT IS Dept? * Is VC'ing of interest to anyone on this list? * It can be a bit expensive though ... :-) * Anyone like the Polycom units? Allister. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Mark Foster 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

FWIW, Id happily travel to Hamilton for this sort of event.. which means I can theoretically let 3 other Aucklanders hitch with me... If i needed to travel much further beyond Hamilton, it'd want to be a Weekend event tho, where Hamilton I could probably get away with being down there just for a day and/or overnight, depending on when im required back in Auckland... The advantage to Auckland - and Im pretty certain that if I asked, I could get us a venue in the Manukau Institute of Technology IS Dept - Is the reduced travel for a fair number of NZNOG'rs who work in/around Auckland - and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly direct to Auckland. Having said that if it is in Auckland, I live not far from the Airport too if thats of any use to anyone... happy to play Taxi. Mark. At 11:43 10/01/02 +1300, Allister Clarke wrote: >I work at the Waikato University as well. >Tony remembers me ... :-) >Currently I work in the teaching rooms here, and I do support of some >conferences. >If people are interested we could hold it in a teaching room(s) of the >required size. >Any thoughts? > >Allister "Nearly CCNA" Clarke >AV Technician > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tony McGregor [mailto:tonym(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz] >Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 11:36 a.m. >To: Donald Neal >Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far > > > >I'm very enthusiastic about the idea. > >The Waikato University Network Research group (WAND) would certainly like to >be involved. I expect we would like to supply speakers on network >measurement research and some non-presenter audience as well. > >We can host the conference if there is interested in that. > >Tony > > > > >On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Donald Neal wrote: > > > NZNOG People, > > > > I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the > > suggestion of a face to face conference this year. > > > > Potential attendees: 6 > > Offers to provide speaker(s): 3 > > Offer to help organise speakers: 1 > > Offer to help organise: 1 > > Offer of venue: 1 > > > > This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that > > need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone > > else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant > > future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location. > > > > I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope > > to do so early next week. > > > > - Donald Neal > > > > > > > > -- > > Donald Neal > > Special Operations > > Network Delivery > > Telecom New Zealand Ltd > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------- > > "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you >are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me >immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this >communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." > > > > > > ====================================================================== > > ======== > > > > - > > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz >Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 >Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095 >Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 >Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >- >To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >where the body of your message reads: >unsubscribe nznog >- >To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >where the body of your message reads: >unsubscribe nznog - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Allister Clarke 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

I work at the Waikato University as well. Tony remembers me ... :-) Currently I work in the teaching rooms here, and I do support of some conferences. If people are interested we could hold it in a teaching room(s) of the required size. Any thoughts? Allister "Nearly CCNA" Clarke AV Technician -----Original Message----- From: Tony McGregor [mailto:tonym(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 11:36 a.m. To: Donald Neal Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far I'm very enthusiastic about the idea. The Waikato University Network Research group (WAND) would certainly like to be involved. I expect we would like to supply speakers on network measurement research and some non-presenter audience as well. We can host the conference if there is interested in that. Tony On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Donald Neal wrote: > NZNOG People, > > I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the > suggestion of a face to face conference this year. > > Potential attendees: 6 > Offers to provide speaker(s): 3 > Offer to help organise speakers: 1 > Offer to help organise: 1 > Offer of venue: 1 > > This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that > need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone > else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant > future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location. > > I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope > to do so early next week. > > - Donald Neal > > > > -- > Donald Neal > Special Operations > Network Delivery > Telecom New Zealand Ltd > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." > > > ====================================================================== > ======== > > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony McGregor Mail: T.McGregor(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651 Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095 Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004 Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

NZNOG Conference 2002
by Donald Neal 08 Jan '02

08 Jan '02

NZNOG People, There are now over three hundred addresses subscribed to this list. Most of those addresses seem likely to correspond to people with an interest in network operation. There were very pleasing turnouts at last year's Christmas functions.I wonder whether it's time to try organising a more serious gathering. Each year the North American Network Operators' Group holds three face to face meetings, at which subjects of interest to network operators - and few others - are discussed. The content varies from tutorials in how to make specific products do specific things to the results of network-related research by government-funded agencies. You can read the agenda from the most recent meeting at http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0110/agenda.html . I do not assume that it would be possible to do the same thing here, even if that was what people wanted. I do wonder whether there would be enough interest to justify trying to organise a face to face conference to be held this year. I'd welcome opinions on that from subscribers who might be willing to attend. (Please don't bother replying to express apathy - I can deduce that from silence.) We should assume that there would be some sort of charge for attendance, reflecting the cost of the venue, food and coffee, and quite possibly some effort to meet some costs of presenting. My guess is that we'd need enough content for close to a day to make the thing worth doing. One option would be a stand-alone event either in Auckland or Wellington (i.e. Auckland?) though our non-existant financial structure might cause problems with that. Another would be to clip ourselves onto the side of some moderately relevant conference such as that now being planned by UniForum NZ for mid-year, in the hope of avoiding all that tedious mucking about with venues and things. (No, I have not discussed this with UniForum NZ, though at least one of their board is sympathetic. :{)* ) For now, I'm primarily looking for expressions of interest in attending, along with suggestions about more or less convenient places and dates. Though of course to hear from volunteers to present material or do other work would be nice. Yes, I do realise that final decisions on attendance are bound to be driven by things like the location, the quality of the programme and whether any of your routers have had the magic smoke come out lately. Right now I'm chiefly seeking an idea of whether this is worth proceeding with further. - Donald Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

5 4

Spam on the increase ?
by Simon Byrnand 08 Jan '02

08 Jan '02

Hi Everyone, Just curious if anyone has noticed a large increase in spam to their customers in the last while, in particular there seems to be a lot of stuff of asian origin, and a large percentage of them are in unreadable (to us) character sets (chinese, japanese, korean perhaps) with pictures and links to porn sites :-( Ordinary spam in english text is bad enough, but when there are explicit pictures within the email as well its just not on at all IMHO. Of the dozen or so that I decided to try and track back, 90% of the source mailservers are listed in either orbz or ordb as open relays. I wonder if the continued existance (perhaps increase) of open relays could make spam the next epidemic after email worms.... Regards, Simon iGRIN Internet - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

9 11

RE: Spam on the increase ?
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

I'm curious Chris, Have you had many of the online site email addresses leaked? Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodofone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Chris Wedgwood [mailto:cw(a)f00f.org] Sent: Tuesday, 8 January 2002 3:26 PM To: Dean Pemberton Cc: Dylan Reeve; NZNOG List Subject: Re: Spam on the increase ? On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:06:43PM +1100, Dean Pemberton wrote: So rather than having dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz post to mailing lists, I'd have nznog(a)deanpemberton.com post to the nznog mailing list. Then filter incoming mail to that address, so that if it was not a post to the nznog list it gets dumped. I do this already for all my mailing lists, for example, I receive all nznog email via nznog(a)ml.cw.f00f.org --- and I can tell you from experience this wonderful scheme of mine casues many problems :( I also use this for routing, so if somebody wanted to be malicious, they could spam that address and it would get automagically routed and stored in my nznog mailing list --- at which time I move to me next greatest scheme :) Similarly, I use cw+<blah>@f00f.org sort of thing for online sites, to I can track if given email addresses leak and such like, all very crude right now, but I've considered something much more complex where I would email using <nouce>@cw-mail.f00f.org sort of thing so I could track individual messages and replies to them on a per message basis, but it hardly seems worth the effort. The biggest problem being that I can't post to mailing lists as cw(a)f00f.org unless they have a pst-only type list (which nznog does, but most lists do not). --cw - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

5 9

Re: Spam on the increase ?
by Simon Byrnand 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

At 11:15 8/01/02 +1300, Andy Linton wrote: >I think you're fighting a losing battle in many ways here. Maybe so, but... >The model for advertising on the Internet was touted as 'ads on web >pages' with click through etc. It's not exactly been a raging success - >I'd hypothesise that these spammers you're upset about are the Satchi and >Satchi of tomorrow. It's not going away and you have to learn to ignore it >just like you have to ignore the ads on TV. Here I disagree. I don't think anyone should need to learn to ignore spam with explicit pictures being shoved in their face every day. It's one thing to visit a website of your own free will and then see an advert you dont like, its quite another to receive it unsolicited. To use your own analogy its like TV advertisers being able to force you to watch their ads even when the TV is turned OFF. :) It's all too easy for people to throw their hands in the air and just give up in the face of what seems like a losing battle, but as soon as we do that, the spammers have won. Regards, Simon - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

8 12

Re: NZNOG Conference 2002
by Donald Neal 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

Dean, -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd >>> "Dean Pemberton" <dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz> 01/08/02 04:08 >>> >I'd be interested in hearing what people think about the Vendor vs >Non-Vendor approach. >On the one hand making it Non-Vendor keeps it like the list. A place >for people to swap ideas and now have Vendors jump in with an axe to >grind. >On the other hand. Vendors with axe's to grind == money. >And they can spring for beer/giveaways/etc. >Hard to know what people want to do here. I don't see this as either/or. Apart from the issues you raise, there is definitely an audience for presentations by vendor staff who know what they're talking about, subject to simple rules about not being too rude about other companies except Microsoft. >> One option would be a stand-alone event either in Auckland or Wellington >> (i.e. Auckland?) though our non-existant financial structure might cause >> problems with that. Another would be to clip ourselves onto the side of >> some moderately relevant conference such as that now being planned by >> UniForum NZ for mid-year, in the hope of avoiding all that tedious >> mucking about with venues and things. (No, I have not discussed this >> with UniForum NZ, though at least one of their board is sympathetic. >> :{)* ) >Uni-Who? Are they still having conferences? So far as I'm aware, they're the only (other?) organisation seeking to run a national conference for geeks. If anyone knows of another ... - Donald Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Open proxies - was RE: Spam on the increase ?
by Phill Groom 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

-----Original Message----- From: Andy Linton [SMTP:asjl(a)lionra.net.nz] >The model for advertising on the Internet was touted as 'ads on web >pages' with click through etc. It's not exactly been a raging success - Slightly related - During a moment of stupidity (I blame the shift in magnetic fields due to my being temporarily relocated some thousands of kilometers from my true home) I inadvertently removed the all important "#" from "#ProxyRequests On" on an apache box.. It took some time and someone far more cluefull than myself to relate this mistake with the strange GET's I started seeing in my http logs a few months later. I was seeing GET's for banner ads at a rate of a couple a day. Turns out my box and many other open proxies around the world were being used to proxy banner add hits to generate revenue for the scum who had the financial relationship with the banner add company. They needed to make the hits look as though they were coming from joe random customers hence the use of many open proxies. Something else to watch for. Phill. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Spam on the increase
by Michael Hallager 07 Jan '02

07 Jan '02

HI all, I did notice this too. (To my own personal box). Good that the headers are still in english.... :-) The funniest one, (This one in english) was the one sent to abuse(a)comsolve.net.nz, which I setup to take AUP style complaints. (None recieved yet though). Out of all the mail addresses @comsolve.net.nz, that was most appropriate. Shows spammers don't have any sense... :-) Best regards, -- Michael Hallager Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) Limited E-Mail: michael(a)comsolve.net.nz Website: http://www.comsolve.net.nz Proudly providing hosting exclusively to 100% family-safe content sites. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

another NZNOG archive
by Joe Abley 05 Jan '02

05 Jan '02

http://www.anos.org.au/groups/newzealand/nznogframe.html Excellent :) - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

RE: Sort of OT: are there any "Internet enabled" temperature sens ors/servers for Auckland?
by Denis Gordon 05 Jan '02

05 Jan '02

Weather Underground also has some (relatively) up to date NZ readings. Some of them are a bit out of the way though. http://www.wunderground.com/global/NZ.html --- Denis Gordon Network Administrator Information Systems Technical Support Dunedin City Council 50 The Octagon, PO Box 5045, Dunedin, New Zealand Ph: +64-3-474 3566 Fax: +64-3-474 3503 Mobile: 025 845 583 Email: denis(a)dcc.govt.nz WWW: http://www.CityOfDunedin.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Andy Gardner [mailto:andy(a)navigator.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2002 3:57pm To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Sort of OT: are there any "Internet enabled" temperature sensors/servers for Auckland? At 3:47 PM +1300 2/1/02, Juha Saarinen wrote: >Measuring the outside temperature, with geographic location given. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

OT - webcam locations and my weather station
by Richard Naylor 03 Jan '02

03 Jan '02

Thank you to all those who brightened up my day with suggestions on webcam locations. (I'm sick in bed with a bad cold/flu). The suggestions brought on many coughing fits and my wife threatened to take the lappy away (wireless cards rule). Some suggestions were, + Kelburn - ah isn't there a large "national" organisation doing this stuff ? (remember at least one cam has a weather station) + Holt Cres, Ottawa - + Devonport, Auckland - A citylink weather station and cam IS coming to downtown AKL + Tasmania + Piha Beach + Wellington Stadium - we already have a camera there on a lighting tower. Must install the IP stuff........ + Outside the Mermaid Bar. - Inside would get more hits ! (Where is this bar Sid ?) And yes I KNOW Tawa is both windy and cold. I live there. Thank you for the many kind and thoughtful comments on our weather. There is no external cam at home otherwise you would all tell me to cut the grass. I am managing to get my sons to do that. I do the mower and weed eater repairs <sigh> However, Jeremy has a camera at http://www.r2.co.nz/~jeremy/webcam/ - If you have any REALLY funny locations for web cams or ones that might endear teh Internet to the rest of the population (like avoiding motorway queues, etc) please let me know off list. I think we haven't had enough fun lately rich richard.naylor(a)citylink.co.nz - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

6 8

Apache / PHP4
by Michael Hallager 03 Jan '02

03 Jan '02

Hi all, Anyone know of a hack/crack/wayaround to restart Apache from a PHP4 WEB script (Or combination of stuff) without running the VirtualHost as "root". More information on what I have done will be provided offlist. In exchange for this much-needed information, I am prepared to advise how to run Apache VirtualHosts purely from an SQL database.... :-) (If thats of any interest) Please message me offlist. Best regards, -- Michael Hallager Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) Limited E-Mail: michael(a)comsolve.net.nz Website: http://www.comsolve.net.nz Proudly providing hosting exclusively to 100% family-safe content sites. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

Re: XTRA's DNS, WHF is going on.....?
by Michael Hallager 03 Jan '02

03 Jan '02

Thanks Simon, As per the email sent directly to you, this possibility has been covered. The mail is being rejected by "mail.connected.net.nz". For the lists information, I provide the following: <COPY> Reporting-MTA: dns; mta2.xtra.co.nz Arrival-Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:22:12 +1300 Received-From-MTA: dns; profix002 (210.54.79.164) Final-Recipient: RFC822; <sales(a)comsolve.co.nz> Action: failed Status: 5.1.3 Remote-MTA: dns; mail.connected.net.nz (202.180.73.237) Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) Final-Recipient: RFC822; <michael(a)comsolve.co.nz> Action: failed Status: 5.1.3 Remote-MTA: dns; mail.connected.net.nz (202.180.73.237) Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) </COPY> Xtra's helpdesk is looking into the matter. They say that the problem APPEARS to be at their end. Users of other ISP's have no such issues with comsolve.co.nz. I would like to express my gratitude to the following: (For their assistance) Wally, So Bradford, Juha, Simon and members of the Xtra helpdesk for looking into this matter. (And anyone else I have missed). Best regards, Michael Hallager Unix Systems Administrator / Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) Limited http://www.comsolve.net.nz On Friday 04 January 2002 22:26, you wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Michael Hallager wrote: > > Mail from Xtra users to "anything(a)comsolve.co.nz" is being bounced > > back to them along with a .dat information file. > > > > Closer inspection of this .dat file reveals that Xtra's (DNS servers?) > > thinks that mail.connected.net.nz is STILL the destination mail server > > despite me not being with Connected since 1998. > > > > Yes- I have kept my DNS zonefiles and Domainz information well > > up-to-date for the last 4 years since moving from Connected and > > running my own mailserver.... > > > > This may merit some looking into. I have contacted Xtra and found > > their (Contracted to Teletech) helpdesk helpful enough (Even though > > I have never been a client of Xtra's) but unable to assist with > > somewhat technical matters of this nature. (They are passing the > > matter on they say). > > > > How many others have been caught out like this? > > I have seen this at least once before, what it was the domain had > previously used Xtra for it's mail, later on they moved to ihug but their > config wasn't removed from all of Xtra's mailservers. So some mail from > Xtra attempted to go to the old mailboxes (which no longer existed). > > From memory Xtra cleared it up pretty quickly once they were aware of it. > postmaster(a)xtra.co.nz would be the natural person to contact. Thanks Simon, As per the email sent directly to you, this possibility has been covered. The mail is being rejected by "mail.connected.net.nz". For the lists information, I provide the following: <COPY> Reporting-MTA: dns; mta2.xtra.co.nz Arrival-Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:22:12 +1300 Received-From-MTA: dns; profix002 (210.54.79.164) Final-Recipient: RFC822; <sales(a)comsolve.co.nz> Action: failed Status: 5.1.3 Remote-MTA: dns; mail.connected.net.nz (202.180.73.237) Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) Final-Recipient: RFC822; <michael(a)comsolve.co.nz> Action: failed Status: 5.1.3 Remote-MTA: dns; mail.connected.net.nz (202.180.73.237) Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) </COPY> Xtra's helpdesk is looking into the matter. They say that the problem APPEARS to be at their end. Users of other ISP's have no such issues with comsolve.co.nz. I would like to express my gratitude to the following: (For their assistance) Wally, So Bradford, Juha, Simon and members of the Xtra helpdesk for looking into this matter. (And anyone else I have missed). Best regards, Michael Hallager Unix Systems Administrator / Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) Limited http://www.comsolve.net.nz On Friday 04 January 2002 22:26, you wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Michael Hallager wrote: > > Mail from Xtra users to "anything(a)comsolve.co.nz" is being bounced > > back to them along with a .dat information file. > > > > Closer inspection of this .dat file reveals that Xtra's (DNS servers?) > > thinks that mail.connected.net.nz is STILL the destination mail server > > despite me not being with Connected since 1998. > > > > Yes- I have kept my DNS zonefiles and Domainz information well > > up-to-date for the last 4 years since moving from Connected and > > running my own mailserver.... > > > > This may merit some looking into. I have contacted Xtra and found > > their (Contracted to Teletech) helpdesk helpful enough (Even though > > I have never been a client of Xtra's) but unable to assist with > > somewhat technical matters of this nature. (They are passing the > > matter on they say). > > > > How many others have been caught out like this? > > I have seen this at least once before, what it was the domain had > previously used Xtra for it's mail, later on they moved to ihug but their > config wasn't removed from all of Xtra's mailservers. So some mail from > Xtra attempted to go to the old mailboxes (which no longer existed). > > From memory Xtra cleared it up pretty quickly once they were aware of it. > postmaster(a)xtra.co.nz would be the natural person to contact. ------------------------------------------------------- - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

XTRA's DNS, WHF is going on.....?
by Michael Hallager 03 Jan '02

03 Jan '02

Hi all, Mail from Xtra users to "anything(a)comsolve.co.nz" is being bounced back to them along with a .dat information file. Closer inspection of this .dat file reveals that Xtra's (DNS servers?) thinks that mail.connected.net.nz is STILL the destination mail server despite me not being with Connected since 1998. Yes- I have kept my DNS zonefiles and Domainz information well up-to-date for the last 4 years since moving from Connected and running my own mailserver.... This may merit some looking into. I have contacted Xtra and found their (Contracted to Teletech) helpdesk helpful enough (Even though I have never been a client of Xtra's) but unable to assist with somewhat technical matters of this nature. (They are passing the matter on they say). How many others have been caught out like this? Best regards, Michael Hallager Unix Systems Administrator / Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) Limited http://www.comsolve.net.nz PS) Luckily all my users have their own domain names or use @comsolve.NET.nz email addresses! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

News about Alan Brown
by Juha Saarinen 03 Jan '02

03 Jan '02

Well, say what you like, but he's tenacious. http://makeashorterlink.com/?E1321254 -- "it should be noted that the "STATEMENT TO ALL" which I posted in June 2001 was written by Telecom's lawyers and posted under duress - while the judge was made aware that the statement contained falsehoods, I was ordered to post it anyway, or be arrested and jailed until such time as I was willing to post it." http://makeashorterlink.com/?I5621254 -- :I'd advocate blocking the NZ courts servers too(**) and see how long that opinion lasts in the face of widespread demonstrations of reality. (**)All NZ courts traffic originates from 203.167.239.224 - 203.167.239.231 for those so inclined, with a domain of courts.govt.nz" http://makeashorterlink.com/?G5921454 -- "I instructed my lawyer to begin perjery proceedings against the xtra managers concerned in August 2001, however he refuses tobring the action as it would put him in both career and physical danger due to retaliatory action from Telecom Corporation of New Zealand." -- Juha Take off every sig! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 2

ICONZ-networks prefix list update (formerly known as Asia Online)
by David Fox 03 Jan '02

03 Jan '02

Hello and Happy New Year to all peering partners. With all the "developments" in the latter months of last year, Asia Online is now reverting to and trading as ICONZ. Can all those who peer with Asia Online at APE and WIX please update your inbound prefix-list as we will be merging in new networks in the very near future. Thanks and Regards David Fox Network Engineer ICONZ ! ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks description Internet Co. NZ Ltd, contact: networks(a)iconz.net ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 5 permit 138.235.0.0/16 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 10 permit 192.173.16.0/21 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 15 permit 202.6.84.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 20 permit 202.12.70.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 25 permit 202.14.100.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 30 permit 202.21.130.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 35 permit 202.36.32.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 40 permit 202.36.76.0/23 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 45 permit 202.36.157.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 50 permit 202.37.73.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 55 permit 202.37.85.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 60 permit 202.37.140.0/22 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 65 permit 202.37.144.0/21 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 70 permit 202.37.163.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 75 permit 202.37.197.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 80 permit 202.37.200.0/22 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 85 permit 202.37.224.0/21 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 90 permit 202.37.232.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 95 permit 202.49.144.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 100 permit 202.50.139.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 105 permit 202.50.246.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 110 permit 202.74.192.0/20 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 115 permit 203.9.179.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 120 permit 203.9.180.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 125 permit 210.48.0.0/17 le 18 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 130 permit 210.54.0.0/22 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 135 permit 210.54.136.0/22 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 140 permit 210.54.140.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 145 permit 210.54.160.0/19 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 150 permit 210.55.24.0/22 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 155 permit 210.55.253.0/24 ip prefix-list ICONZ-networks seq 160 permit 210.185.16.0/20 le 21 ! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Are static IPs over Jetstart possible and are they legitimate?
by Michael Hallager 03 Jan '02

03 Jan '02

Hi all, The following is taken verbatim from a local ISP's site: (today). -- <copy> -- * Static IP's for Jetstart are offered over PPTP tunnels. The pricing quoted includes the setup of the PPTP tunnel on our side, but does not include client support, which is currently charged at $120 per hour if required. -- </copy> -- And then under the Jetstart service description field: -- <copy> -- * Servers are allowed * Static IPs over tunnels $20/mth -- </copy> -- Anyone tried this? Does it work? If so, how well? Is it legitimate? Wishing everyone a happy 2002. Michael Hallager Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) Limited http://www.comsolve.net.nz - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

4 3

Bigbens faulty chimes
by Ben Martel 02 Jan '02

02 Jan '02

Hi all, The problem with bigben.clix.net.nz has been rectified. This was a fault with the Truetime software and we have had a temporary fix shipped from the USA. They are currently burning new EPROMs to send out that corrects the problem permanently. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. And yes we have pointed out to them that stratum 1 time sources SHOULD NOT HAVE BUGS!!!! ~ben =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~ Ben Martel Ph: +64 9 9124067 TelstraClear Fax:+64 9 9125008 Mob:+64 21 541202 =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~ ~ben =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~ Ben Martel Ph: +64 9 9124067 TelstraClear Fax:+64 9 9125008 Mob:+64 21 541202 =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~ - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

Re: Te Aroha Autoresponse
by Dean Pemberton 01 Jan '02

01 Jan '02

Can someone unsub This dude till the 8th of august? It would be ok if he was only sending one reply per person - but this is the third one I've got. We need a rule about this in the AUP too =) Dean On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 06:04:36PM +1300, autoresponse(a)maxnet.co.nz wrote: > Hi There > > Thank you for your email. > > I will be on holiday until the 8th of January. If you require technical > assistance, please contact the helpdesk on the details that follow. Until > then, have a Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year! > > Regards > > > Te Aroha > Helpdesk Supervisor > Maxnet > PO Box 8006 > Auckland 1035 > http://www.maxnet.co.nz > support(a)maxnet.co.nz > Helpdesk: 09 300-7555 > General: 09 300-7222 > Fax: 09 300-7227 > - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

Thanks...
by Juha Saarinen 01 Jan '02

01 Jan '02

Ian, Phill, Keith, Andy and Dean, for the meteorogical pointers. -- Juha Take off every sig! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Sort of OT: are there any "Internet enabled" temperature sensors/servers for Auckland?
by Phill Groom 01 Jan '02

01 Jan '02

At 3:47 PM +1300 2/1/02, Juha Saarinen wrote: >Measuring the outside temperature, with geographic location given. You could also try; pgroom(a)muffin:~> wget -q ftp://weather.noaa.gov/data/observations/metar/decoded/NZAA.TXT ; cat NZAA.TXT Auckland Airport, New Zealand (NZAA) 37-01S 174-48E 6M Jan 01, 2002 - 10:00 PM EST / 2002.01.02 0300 UTC Wind: from the SSW (210 degrees) at 10 MPH (9 KT):0 Sky conditions: mostly clear Temperature: 75 F (24 C) Dew Point: 62 F (17 C) Relative Humidity: 64% Pressure (altimeter): 29.91 in. Hg (1013 hPa) ob: NZAA 020300Z 21009KT 20KM FEW050 24/17 Q1013 NOSIG RMK FUHZ cycle: 3 Have a look at http://205.156.54.206/oso/siteloc.shtml for other METAR codes. Phill. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

Sort of OT: are there any "Internet enabled" temperature sensors/servers for Auckland?
by Juha Saarinen 01 Jan '02

01 Jan '02

Measuring the outside temperature, with geographic location given. -- Juha Take off every sig! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 01 Jan '02

01 Jan '02

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. This list has just under 320 subscribers, with the number rising by a few each month. You may only post to the list from an address subscribed to one of the lists described below. (Non-member postings and spam continue to be bounced in roughly equal volumes.) The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by an employee of Telecom NZ Ltd. Neither of these organisations, nor the administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrator remains happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. Subscribing to the List To subscribe to the NZNOG list, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz, where the body of the message reads subscribe nznog Digest Mailing List If you don't wish to receive postings as they are sent, you can instead subscribe to the nznog-digest mailiing list, on which all postings are sent out in a single "digest" every couple of days. Post-only Mailing List An address from which you wish to post, but which will not receive messages from the list, may be subscribed to nznog-postonly. You will presumably want to have another address subscribed to the main nznog list. Other Activities Thanks to Cisco and Juniper for the 2001 Christmas parties. The list administrator is likely to start in late January or early February seeking to twist arms in search of contributions for a conference in late June or early July 2002. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins This email message is a public document. I don't speak for Telecom and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Re: Te Aroha Autoresponse
by Mark Foster 31 Dec '01

31 Dec '01

Autoresponders SUCK when they respond to lists. *moan* At 21:05 1/01/2002 +1300, you wrote: >Hi There > >Thank you for your email. > >I will be on holiday until the 8th of January. If you require technical >assistance, please contact the helpdesk on the details that follow. Until >then, have a Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year! > >Regards > > >Te Aroha >Helpdesk Supervisor >Maxnet >PO Box 8006 >Auckland 1035 >http://www.maxnet.co.nz >support(a)maxnet.co.nz >Helpdesk: 09 300-7555 >General: 09 300-7222 >Fax: 09 300-7227 - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Fwd: Re: problems with NTP on bigben?
by Mark Foster 31 Dec '01

31 Dec '01

Dumbass that I am got the list addy wrong... >Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:13:54 +1300 >To: Dean Pemberton <dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz> >From: Mark Foster <blakjak(a)blakjak.net> >Subject: Re: problems with NTP on bigben? >Cc: nznog(a)lists.waikato.ac.nz > >Mine didnt. I hadnt checked untill it occurred to me that it might explain >the reason I got kicked off about 5 different irc networks simultaneously >at about 1 oclock.. > >I just checked it just now, with the date set at 2021 you get an 'invalid >arguement' error when trying to resynch.. i manually set it back and >resynched... > >phoenix:~# date 010121112002 >Tue Jan 1 21:11:00 NZDT 2002 >phoenix:~# ntpdate ntp.iconz.co.nz > 1 Jan 21:12:13 ntpdate[12973]: step time server 202.14.100.252 offset > -55.121430 sec > >guess my linux ntpdate isnt as good as yours :p > >Linux phoenix 2.2.17 #1 Sun Jun 25 09:24:41 EST 2000 i486 unknown > > >Mark. > > > >At 19:44 1/01/2002 +1300, you wrote: >>On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 10:21:00PM -0500, Joe Abley wrote: >> > >> > I just saw three other Trutime GPS units perform similar acrobatics. >> > bigben.clix.net.nz is a Trutime GPS clock. Looks (to me) more like a >> > Trutime bug than a generic GPS clock bug. >> >>Yep - just turned on my Garmin II+ and it looks fine. So I'm inclined to >>agree that it's a Trutime problem rather than a generic GPS issue. >> >>Also interesting to note that linux ntp just looked at bigben and said >>"PFFFT right - not believeing you anymore" and went to an anternate server. >> >>Good dog! >> >> >>Dean >>- >>To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >>where the body of your message reads: >>unsubscribe nznog - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Telecom Rentals to Go Up Because of too many Internet Calls
by Craig Whitmore 31 Dec '01

31 Dec '01

Just something I saw this morning that some people might be interested in. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=584153 Quote from the Article. "Deputy Prime Minister Jim Anderton said he was concerned that a small minority of people over-using their home internet connections had contributed to the latest rental increase." I guess the government is telling all NZers to use the Internet Less :-( Thanks Craig Whitmore Orcon Internet http://www.orcon.net.nz - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

7 6

Re: Thanks
by Sue Leader 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Hi Now that I'm subbed under new address......I tried to say yesterday: > Thanks Roger, for hosting the NZNOG Christmas event in Wellington last night. It was great to catch up with everyone away from work. Those chocolate strawberries were pretty good :-) My thanks also - good to put some faces to names. I'll give the list a call on the new IP phone once I've figured out how to plug it into my cellphone ;-) Cheers Sue > > > Regards / Ian <snip> Sue Leader - Executive Director InternetNZ Voice: +64-4-472-1600 Fax: +64-4-472-1207 Level 4, Hibernian Building, 89 Willis Street (P.O.Box 11-881) Wellington http://www.internetnz.net.nz - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Thanks
by Ian Quinn 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

Thanks Roger, for hosting the NZNOG Christmas event in Wellington last night. It was great to catch up with everyone away from work. Those chocolate strawberries were pretty good :-) Regards / Ian - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Final Reminder - NZNOG Xmas Special - Wellington
by Roger De Salis 16 Dec '01

16 Dec '01

> > Wellington When: Tuesday 18th December, 4pm onwards > > Where: Cisco, L8, ASB Tower, 2 Hunter St > > Who: As above > > RSVP to: moi Reminder to everyone, and a note to say I shall be a fraction late, probably get back to the office about 4.15pm... T-Shirts have arrived, and IP-Phone for the raffle is all packed up..... SO PLEASE BRING YOUR BUSINESS CARDS for the raffle /R -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)cisco.com </' Cisco Systems NZ Ltd +64 25 481 452 /) L8, ASB Tower, 2 Hunter St +64 4 496 9003 (/ Wellington, New Zealand roger(a)desalis.gen.nz ` In October 2001, the 5th most important product line by value for Cisco is - the telephone. Cisco 79x0 IP telephones. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Email from Real Networks (real-net.net).
by Simon Lyall 15 Dec '01

15 Dec '01

I've been having a little problem with these guys over the last couple of weeks. Basicly they send out an email to a huge number of customers (everybody who every registered their software). The problem is that at over 2000 over the @ihug.co.nz address are no longer active and the emails bounce. I don't care about the above but their machines that handle the bounces are totally overloaded so the bounces hang obout in my outgoing queue slowing things down (until I gave them their own queue entry). Has anyone else experienced this problem? Any luck getting real networks to bulk unsubscribe a few thousand addresses at a time. I don't want to block them or anything since presumably most legit customers who get this email want it. -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

3 2

RE: Found at Cisco Auckland after party......
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 10 Dec '01

10 Dec '01

Matthew G Brown wrote: You mean can dealers RIG the raffle and take the prizes home for extensive R&D Drat Dean, He found us out. I confess Matthew. I attempted to Rig it in Auckland so I won the first Cisco polo-shirt. Always wanted to know how those things worked!! :-) Regards Kefyn JUDSON Data Solutions Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)sms.judson.to

2 1

RE: Archives of this List
by Stephen Andrew 10 Dec '01

10 Dec '01

> -----Original Message----- > From: Donald Neal [mailto:Donald.Neal(a)telecom.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2001 09:32 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Archives of this List [snip] After reading Donald's email I found this tacked to the bottom: > > "WorldSecure Server <telecom.co.nz>" made the following > annotations on 12/11/01 09:31:41 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not > the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose > anything about it. Thank you." > ============================================================================ == As this is added to the *bottom* of the email how reasonable is it to expect people not to have read the email before getting there? Just wondering. -- Andrew J. Stephen Phone +64 4 496 4484 Team Leader, Network Operations Mobile +64 25 582 304 New Zealand Post Fax +64 4 496 4914 "Certainly, Windows XP is no Calista Flockhart. XP has so much pomp and circumstance that it's front-end weighs more than that of the cast of Baywatch." -- JonnyGURU, http://www.systemlogic.net/agurusworld/19/ This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If it is not intended for you please reply immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

Archives of this List
by Donald Neal 10 Dec '01

10 Dec '01

Having received more feedback hostile to the idea of changing the archive than supportive of it, I have this morning advised Mr. Bamberger that I am not willing at this time to edit the NZNOG list archive. This is for the same reasons I have stated before, that I do not see myself as the owner of the archive and do not accept responsibility for the archives' contents. I do not have any objection to the removal of the name and address of a non-subscriber where that information has no operational use. I have previously said publicly that I am happy to cooperate with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, and I remain happy to do so. My understanding of the law, as has been stated by others on this list, is that jurisdiction flows from who controls a "database", not where it is physically located. I will not associate myself with Joe Abley's archive of this list. This is not because I have any objection to Joe, nor because I doubt his right to hold a copy of the archive. But I do not wish to be placed in a position where I'm obliged under New Zealand law to do something it turns out I'm not in practice able to do. As has also been observed before, it would be helpful if people didn't post material to this list which doesn't need to be here. This list does exist for a purpose. Please bear that in mind when posting. Donald Neal Mailing List Administrator -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd "WorldSecure Server <telecom.co.nz>" made the following annotations on 12/11/01 09:31:41 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Re: Found at Cisco Auckland after party......
by Matthew G Brown 09 Dec '01

09 Dec '01

You mean can dealers RIG the raffle and take the prizes home for extensive R&D | Matthew G Brown | B & R Holdings LIMITED | Nelson, New Zealand | 03 5446443 | 025 807731 | Matt(a)BRH.CO.Nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Pemberton" <dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz> To: "Roger De Salis" <rdesalis(a)cisco.com> Cc: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:29 AM Subject: Re: Found at Cisco Auckland after party...... > On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 04:05:30PM +1300, Roger De Salis wrote: > > and not recognised by anyone at Cisco > > > > Shirt: Polar fleece ( no sleeves) dark navy/black - > > Name on label on front 'Patagonia' > > Sony FM Stereo mega bass in pocket > > > > Any Takers? or should we add it to the raffle for the > > Wellington party? > > Can vendors get in on the raffle? > > Dean =) > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog > - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

Found at Cisco Auckland after party......
by Roger De Salis 09 Dec '01

09 Dec '01

and not recognised by anyone at Cisco Shirt: Polar fleece ( no sleeves) dark navy/black - Name on label on front 'Patagonia' Sony FM Stereo mega bass in pocket Any Takers? or should we add it to the raffle for the Wellington party? R -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)cisco.com </' Cisco Systems NZ Ltd +64 25 481 452 /) L8, ASB Tower, 2 Hunter St +64 4 496 9003 (/ Wellington, New Zealand roger(a)desalis.gen.nz ` In October 2001, the 5th most important product line by value for Cisco is - the telephone. Cisco 79x0 IP telephones. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

3 2

RE: NZNOG Xmas Special - Auckland
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 09 Dec '01

09 Dec '01

Hello, This is by way of an intro. You will be please to hear that Andreas hat is on its way. Lin the game on the phone was Defender (remember that game?) and we can announce that Dean is the galactic champion, followed closely by GJS and Dave. I too thoroughly enjoyed the evening. Thanks to Roger and team for their hospitality, and to Dean for his generosity at the bar and with the ..... spiff. Hey Roger, Vendors could win Juniper spiff! (Another story) It was great to get to meet you all and I look forward to doing the same online. Regards Kefyn JUDSON Data Solutions Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)sms.judson.to -----Original Message----- From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz] Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2001 6:54 PM To: Andreas Girardet Cc: Lin Nah; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; kefyn.Judson(a)ericsson.co.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Xmas Special - Auckland Kefyn Judson from Ericsson said that he dan your contact details and said that he would forward it on. Here is his email address incase kefyn.Judson(a)ericsson.co.nz Dean On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 12:50:52PM +1300, Andreas Girardet wrote: > That someone was myself, who has got my redhat? > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Lin Nah > Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2001 00:37 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: NZNOG Xmas Special - Auckland > > > > Thank you to Dean and Roger for the lovely evening. I am sure others > who attended would agree (saving all from the aol me too thing) > > For those of you who missed it... > > I arrived sometime between 5:30 and 6pm to find that I had missed out on > the cisco spiff (like IP phone for one, t-shirts appeared to have been > given out to a few more). So the idea is to go early ;) > The Junniper spiffs are also limited in number. Apart from that I > won't spoil the surprise. Let's just say it was tested for its > beerproofness (and passed) > > Obviously the empty satay sticks told me I had missed something with > meat on it. Some nznogers appear not to like olives as there were a > few empty sticks with an olive left on them. Never fear, there was > other things like cheese, strawberries and cherries, mincetarts, > panforte, and other christmas snacks, nice chardonnay (well I enjoyed > a few glasses of it), beer and even V. > > Lots of people there. I won't say I remember all their names. However > here's a few (trying to list them by their affliations) ... > Cisco: Roger De Salis and Aaron Scott (there's probably one or two more) > Juniper: Dean Pemberton > Ihug: Bart Kindt, Anand Lal, Simon Lyall, Simon Allard, and Glen Wilson > Telstra/Clear: Tony Wicks and Matt Camp (there was someone else - I forget > who) > Telecom/Xtra: Ted Grenfell, David Robb and someone wearing a redhat cap but > left it behind. He did tell me his name but I forgot. > Callplus/Attica: John Russell, James Tyson and Matthew Poole > ICONZ: Steve Phillips and David Fox > Quicksilver: Mark Frater and moi > Zombie: Bryce Coad and Ben (embarrasing but his name has escaped my mind > atm) > Erricson: Kefyn Judson (he just discovered nznog's existence this week) > And lots others I don't remember who plus a few I don't know who etc. > > Everyone got on very well. Seriously I don't think the work affliations > above really mattered. A subset (about 20) of the group went to > Playhouse (a pub by Aotea Square) for more drinks (this was on Juniper). > By the time we left Playhouse at 10:15pm, the group had depleted to around > 8. > > Nothing like a group of geeks together drinking. Kefyn's cellphone was part > of the entertainment as it had a cool game (no I don't remember what it is). > A few tried to beat each other's scores. Flying lessons (or going for a > pilot's licence) appears to be popular among the group. A substantial > number of those at the playhouse were going for their licences. > Lots of geek speak > > I'll leave it to Roger and Dean to do the Drinks tally of Auck vs Wgtn > after the wellington event. All I can say is I wasn't thirsty. > > Cisco and Juniper rUlZ !!! > > Thanks for the enjoyable evening > > Lin > ps really sorry if I didn't remember your name or missed you out. > > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog > > > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog

2 1

Archives of this list. 'official' policy.
by Colin Palmer 09 Dec '01

09 Dec '01

[having permission to say this on behalf of the UoW ITS department this time: ] Basically, we're going to side with all the others that said editing a post to remove public infomation even once will be starting a precedent we don't want. So: We are not going to be editing anything, nor requiring list owners to excercise any kind of editorial control if they don't wish. Though we will, of course, co-operate with the office of the New Zealand Privacy Commissioner in any case that is brought to their attention. -- ** Colin Palmer, Systems and Development Group, University of Waikato, NZ ** - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

RE: The Archives, Again
by Simon Byrnand 08 Dec '01

08 Dec '01

At 12:54 PM 7/12/01 +1300, Frank March wrote: >Under the Privacy Act, anyone is entitled to ask for information held about >them on a database (a Web site qualifies as such under the Act IIRC) to be >corrected or amended, or deleted should the information no longer have any >purpose in being stored. [snip] Nice argument, except for the fact that the list archives are *archives* not a database. If the law considers any website regardless of content as automatically being a database, then the law is stupid and in need of changing. Is an old newspaper considered a database just because it might have information on people? (no, its an archive) no difference here. The list archives are just an automated, electronic version of what librarians have been doing with newspapers for years - archiving articles for future record. If somebody libels you in a newspaper article, can you go around telling all the librarians in the country to cut that page out of their archive version of the newspaper ? I think not. Get a retraction printed in a future edition, yes. I don't see a difference here. Just because technology makes it *possible* to do revisionist censorship of archives doesn't mean we should...and yes, I think Joe Ableys idea is a good one :) Regards, Simon - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

10 15

Re: The Archives, Again
by Joe Abley 07 Dec '01

07 Dec '01

On Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 09:55:28AM +1300, Rob Isaac wrote: > On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Joe Abley wrote: > > > I threw an archive up on a machine outside NZ: > > > > http://archive.nznog.org/ > > Note that the URLs to individual messages are not equivalent, and that the > message Donald is enquiring about is: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html > > But in the unofficial archive, the URL is: > > http://archive.nznog.org/2001-10/msg00137.html Oh, yeah. The thing I just threw up is not a mirror of the waikato archive; it is generated quite independently by list mail being received. I seeded it with archive mail I requested from majordomo at waikato, which was subsequently fake-delivered though it was new mail in order to build the archive history. The chances of URLs being equivalent between the two archives are somewhat remote. Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

3 5

The Archives, Again
by Donald Neal 07 Dec '01

07 Dec '01

NZNOG People, On 9 October this year, a Domainz registration record was posted to this list. That included the name, address and phone numbers of a domain name holder who has no association with this list. He has now written to The University of Waikato asking them to remove his personal details from the archive for this list. That request has been passed on to me. My views on this are: 1/ The archive isn't my property, and I won't accept responsibility for its contents. 2/ Past threats by subscribers to publish their own copies of the archive make such changes of little practical use. 3 / Since 1/, and 2/ have not had any apparent impact on the man in question, I have no problem with asking subscribers about this, and agreeing to the removal of holder personal details (only) from the posting in question if subscribers are happy with that. So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can be read at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so promptly and briefly. - Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Administrator -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd "WorldSecure Server <telecom.co.nz>" made the following annotations on 12/07/01 11:46:43 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

11 12

OT:A call to arms, to help a lowly newbie Cisco guy!
by Malcolm Lockyer 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

Hey All! Well, I recently took on the task of configuring a cisco 2503 to work on a frame relay. As anyone who has looked at the cisco documentation would note, that it isn't very user friendly for newbies, and it aint very consise. Today I spent 1 1/2 hours tryin' to configure the 2503 (note, although it is a 2503, we are not using the ISDN interface - we are only using the 2503 because it was aquired very cost effectivly BG). I can make the Ethernet interface work with no problems at all, and can ping and so forth back and forth between a linux box. I cannot make it do anything with the frame interface, the system summary tells me that the interface is okay - and it is 'up', but pings to specfic I.P's do nothing, as do pings from the linux box ( I have setup the default gateway properly). I know people would charge a lot of money for advice like this, but I'm appealing to anybody who kinda knows what they are doing when it comes to 2500 series routers. Make this your good dead of the year BG. So, if anybody could run through the process of configuring a 2503 for a single frame relay on Serial0, and what I have to type, and do etc. and the local settings (like the routing protocal used). It would be more appreciated than you could ever imagine :D. And I'd find a way to pay you back (at least partialy) somtime. Well, THANK YOU VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE!! Just a little info about our setup: The 2503 is connected to an NTU via an x.21 cable on Serial0. The frame has a PVC of 64K - and will be used for radius. It is tempararily connected through an AUI to Ethernet adaptor, to a hub ( will be a switch once it works :P). Well, I just have to say THANK YOU once again :D. Best regards, Malcolm (hivemind) Lockyer _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

RE: The Archives, Again
by Frank March 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

<also encompassing comments from John Russell and Chris Wedgewood, and Simon Brynand subsequently> This case is altogether different from the last request that was made: in that case the person was a poster to this list and compounded the issue by making further statements on the list. The issue here is that someone whose name is not in any way associated with this list has had his details published on the list. Were this transient it probably would not matter at all. But the list is archived and on the Waikato University Web site at that. The fact that the same information is available on other publicly accessible Web sites or through Whois or whatever is not relevant. Under the Privacy Act, anyone is entitled to ask for information held about them on a database (a Web site qualifies as such under the Act IIRC) to be corrected or amended, or deleted should the information no longer have any purpose in being stored. The person concerned is exercising a legal right and Waikato University is obliged to recognise that. I am surprised that the request to Donald has not been couched rather more forcefully. If action is not taken it may well be; it is not impossible that Waikato University could request that this list be removed from the site altogether. They would be entitled to do so. In my view Donald, respecting the note you have made that you are not responsible for the archive and/or its contents; but in view of the responsibility you take on yourself to act as guardian of the list standards, if not as list moderator, you have no choice but to proceed as you have suggested and delete the person's personal details. The lesson here for us all, as noted by Chris already in his note, is that we should take care in the information placed onto the list (and hence the archive) if it is not ours to begin with. Frank March Specialist Advisor, IT Policy Group Ministry of Economic Development, PO Box 1473, Wellington, NZ Ph: (+64 4) 474 2908; Fax: (+64 4) 471 2658 > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Lyall [SMTP:simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2001 12:27 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: The Archives, Again > > On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Donald Neal wrote: > > So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and > > holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can > > be read at > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and > > replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request > > of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so > > promptly and briefly. > > I'm a little confused as to why they want this removed, since exactly the > same information is on domainz's web site (and would be in the whois > database if it was working). I've checked and the information doesn't > appear to have been changed between what domains has now and what is on > the archive. > > > > -- > Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz > Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz > ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: > http://www.darkmere.gen.nz > > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

3 2

RE: The Archives, Again
by Simon Byrnand 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

At 04:04 PM 7/12/01 +1300, Tony McGregor wrote: >Sure, but when he does find some one holding information about him, in >NZ, the privacy act gives him the right to ask for it to be corrected. No data here needs "correcting" - the data is still up to date according to the domainz page. :-) (Ok, we're wildly off topic here, so I'll shut up now) Regards, Simon - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

RE: The Archives, Again
by Mark Foster 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

I dont see the big deal insofar as what on earth are we doing that needs to be hidden from NZ jurisdiction? We have nothing to hide - isnt that the problem, that our archives are not hidden? :p I agree with the newspaper anology to a large degree - you cant change the past, even if its stored electronically and therefore is *able* to be modified. The only exception I would make was in the case of excessively libelious comments.. Where only the facts are recorded, it shouldnt be that big a deal? Im not sure if I should ask the question 'who reads our archives anyway?' because i'll probably find theres a lot of closet NZNOG'rs out there.. :) At 15:09 7/12/01 +1300, you wrote: >The Canadian Privacy Act is very similar in many respects to the New Zealand >one, slightly more strict I understand, but based on the same OECD Privacy >Guidelines and in full accord with the EU Directive on Privacy (NZ is >delinquent in some respects according to the EU). > >I am not sure quite what the position is wrt persons from outside Canadian >jurisdiction but Canadian law may be more likely to accommodate concerned NZ >citizens with info held on them in Canada than vice versa, as I understand >it. > *snip* - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

nzno@lionra.net.nzRe: The Archives, Again (fwd
by Andy Linton 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Donald Neal wrote: > So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and > holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can > be read at > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and > replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request > of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so > promptly and briefly. Given that the Domainz Terms of Service say: --- Use of information collected The management of the DNS involves the collection of personal information to provide public name listing services. This is in line with other Internet domain name registration services world-wide. Information is collected in one of two ways: * by .nz Provider/Agents acting on behalf of a name holder, or * directly from the name holder through the Domainz web site All information collected will be considered as information within the public domain. It may be published on the Domainz web site, and will be accessible to all users of the Internet. --- it seems difficult to see how someone can object to that information being accessible to those users of the Internet who access the NZNOG list archive. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

RE: The Archives, Again
by Frank March 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

The Canadian Privacy Act is very similar in many respects to the New Zealand one, slightly more strict I understand, but based on the same OECD Privacy Guidelines and in full accord with the EU Directive on Privacy (NZ is delinquent in some respects according to the EU). I am not sure quite what the position is wrt persons from outside Canadian jurisdiction but Canadian law may be more likely to accommodate concerned NZ citizens with info held on them in Canada than vice versa, as I understand it. Frank March Specialist Advisor, IT Policy Group Ministry of Economic Development, PO Box 1473, Wellington, NZ Ph: (+64 4) 474 2908; Fax: (+64 4) 471 2658 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Abley [SMTP:jabley(a)automagic.org] > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2001 15:01 > To: Tony McGregor > Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: The Archives, Again > > On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 02:11:23PM +1300, Tony McGregor wrote: > > Moving the archive off shore won't help either if the information is > > "held by" a New Zealand agency. I.E. if the list is a UoW list but > > someone else hosts the archives it's probably still covered. > > I'm not convinced I understand how the UoW could entice me to edit > my archives, speaking as a resident of Canada, and with reference > to an archive hosted in the US. > > But I'm happy to host the list too, if that helps :) Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

2 1

RE: The Archives, Again
by Frank March 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

<B***ger> memory failure again. Nevertheless, my argument stands on the slightly modified ground of the details being of no direct relevance to the purpose of the list. Perhaps Joe's offer should be taken up. Frank March Specialist Advisor, IT Policy Group Ministry of Economic Development, PO Box 1473, Wellington, NZ Ph: (+64 4) 474 2908; Fax: (+64 4) 471 2658 > -----Original Message----- > From: Donald Neal [SMTP:Donald.Neal(a)telecom.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2001 13:01 > To: Frank.March(a)med.govt.nz > Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: RE: The Archives, Again > > >>> "Frank March" <Frank.March(a)med.govt.nz> 12/07/01 12:54 >>> > <also encompassing comments from John Russell and Chris Wedgewood, and > Simon > Brynand subsequently> > > >This case is altogether different from the last request that was made: > in > >that case the person was a poster to this list and compounded the > issue by > >making further statements on the list. > > The only previous case concerns Mr. Angelo. No, he wasn't a poster to > this list. No, he didn't make any statement to this list. It is possible > to argue that his actions were themselves relevant to the purpose of > this list, and that reports of his actions do not constitute personal > information. But both cases concern people who are not subscribers to > this list. > Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0

RE: The Archives, Again
by Donald Neal 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

>>> "Frank March" <Frank.March(a)med.govt.nz> 12/07/01 12:54 >>> <also encompassing comments from John Russell and Chris Wedgewood, and Simon Brynand subsequently> >This case is altogether different from the last request that was made: in >that case the person was a poster to this list and compounded the issue by >making further statements on the list. The only previous case concerns Mr. Angelo. No, he wasn't a poster to this list. No, he didn't make any statement to this list. It is possible to argue that his actions were themselves relevant to the purpose of this list, and that reports of his actions do not constitute personal information. But both cases concern people who are not subscribers to this list. - Donald Neal -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd "WorldSecure Server <telecom.co.nz>" made the following annotations on 12/07/01 13:01:01 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

1 0