- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Commodore Airport Hotel
by Joe Abley 05 Jan '12

05 Jan '12

Hi all, The link from 2012.nznog.org for the Commodore Airport Hotel tells me that there are no rooms available on the 24th, 25th or 26th of January. (I mention this here in case other similarly-disorganised people have noticed similarly, and might benefit from the outpouring of advice that is surely only minutes away from starting.) Is there a group booking code I need to use to be included in an NZNOG room block? Alternatively, any recommendations for other hotels within staggering distance? Joe

13 18

APNIC Executive Council Nominations Open
by Srinivas Chendi 05 Jan '12

05 Jan '12

________________________________________________________________________ Call for nominations to the APNIC Executive Council now open ________________________________________________________________________ Three positions on the APNIC Executive Council (EC) will be opened for election at APNIC 33 in New Delhi on Friday, 2 March 2012. The Executive Council represents the APNIC membership and acts in the best interests of the organization. The members whose positions are up for re-election are: - Maemura Akinori - Che-Hoo Cheng - Ma Yan Nominations are due by 17:30 (UTC +10) on Friday, 10 February 2012. Nominees do not have to be representatives of APNIC Members, but only APNIC Members may nominate and vote for candidates. Nominations must be made using the online nomination form, which is available now at: http://meetings.apnic.net/nominate For more information on nominations received and the role of the EC, please see: http://meetings.apnic.net/ec ________________________________________________________________________ APNIC Secretariat secretariat(a)apnic.net Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Tel: +61 7 3858 3100 PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD http://www.apnic.net ________________________________________________________________________ * Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary.

1 0

UTC, leap seconds and computer time
by Jay Daley 24 Dec '11

24 Dec '11

A network time heads-up. There has been a debate raging for some years on whether or not to change Universal Coordinated Time (UTC) to be the same as International Atomic Time (TAI), which is due for a major vote at the ITU-R in January. Previous votes have seen it defeated but it keeps coming back. To explain the background: The rotation of the earth is not precisely the same length of time each year and currently a decison is made every six months whether or not to correct UTC to ensure that midday really is when the sun is at its highest point over the Greenwich meridian, by adding a leap second. 24 have been added over the last 40 years and UTC now differs from TAI by 34 seconds. The proposal, if agreed, will drop this correction and so over a long time the connection between time and the rotation of the earth will be lost. The implication for networks is potentially quite profound. NTP currently supports leap seconds as do GPS satellite time signals and DCF77 radio clocks but if this proposal is agreed that will be turned off. So if you provide time to a system that take a photograph at the same time every day then that will need two time signals, one for TAI and a new one for earth rotation time. Same problem for anything to do with sun rises/falls and tides (though obviously the precision may not be an issue for some years). If you want to read more then this article covers the arguments quite well, though biased like me against the idea: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-22/un-vote-could-allow-mankind-to-con… I'm not sure if NZ has a position on this, but I am trying to find out. cheers Jay PS A reminder about our free NTP service, details at: www.ntp.net.nz PPS If you think this is off-topic for this list then please let me know! -- Jay Daley Chief Executive .nz Registry Services (New Zealand Domain Name Registry Limited) desk: +64 4 931 6977 mobile: +64 21 678840

8 12

NZNOG 2012 - Registrations now open
by Gerard Creamer 23 Dec '11

23 Dec '11

Hi there, Sorry for the delay. We were about to open registrations yesterday and there were a few more earthquakes. Being the risk adverse bunch that we are we have been to the venue to assess the situation, and the Trustees have decided that there is no reason at present not to proceed with the 2012 NZNOG conference in Christchurch. So we're all go! Buy the gift of NZNOG this Christmas... Or New Year... Register now at https://nznog.lilregie.com There is conference information at http://2012.nznog.org For the terminally lazy, or those who don't want to loose any of those precious leap seconds waiting for network latency, the speaker list so far is: Martin J. Levy (Hurricane Electric) - The state of the IPv6 global Internet Phil Regnauld (NSRC) - ValiDNS Geoff Huston (APNIC) - Digi who? (DNS security) Josh Bailey (Google) - Software Defined Networking, OpenFlow, and how to make an OpenFlow Router Bill Manning (free agent) - Moving the cost of Crypto Nick Wilcox (Netmania UK) - 360 Degrees of Customer Service Jonathan Brewer (free agent) - All your Waves are belong to us Greg Hankins (Brocade) - What's Going on with Ethernet? Nelson Da Silva (Fortinet) - Have you secured your IPv6? Philip Smith (APNIC) - Migration from OSPF to ISIS Andy Linton (VUW / Citylink) - State of the IX There are two excellent three day workshops (IPv6 BGP and DNS SEC) Monday to Wednesday as well as a bunch of pick-n-mix tutorials on the Wednesday. See you all there. Cheers, Gerard

3 2

UFB talk at 'NOG 2012
by Shane Hobson 22 Dec '11

22 Dec '11

Slightly off topic, but useful suggestions will be rewarded with beer. At NZNOG 2012 I'll be bringing you an update on the rollout of ultrafast broadband around the country. In previous years I've described the money go round that makes it work, speculated on the prices of services and hinted at some of the challenges that ISPs might face. This year, much more information is already published (services, pricing, technical service descriptions, ops manuals etc) So my question for the NZNOG community what would you like to know about UFB ? Stuff I could do : summary of the wholesale services & pricing technical detail about precisely how the services work random questions & answer session Shane Hobson Ultrafast Fibre Ltd 021 221 3999

1 0

QinQ box
by Anton Smith 21 Dec '11

21 Dec '11

Hi all, Given the handover options from Chorus for UFB ( http://www.chorus.co.nz/file/1591), does anybody have any recommendations about a cost effective GE based node that can do QinQ happily? Port density probably only needs to be 2-4 ports. Control/forwarding redundancy not required. And, preferably with the capability to set individual policers and/or queue rates on each sub-interface. I don't know if chorus give you the option to do the rate limiting for you or not - does anybody know? Cheers, Anton

6 6

NZNOG is coming to Christchurch
by Sam Sargeant 20 Dec '11

20 Dec '11

The New Zealand Network Operators Group (NZNOG) is holding their annual conference and training workshops in the Garden City of Christchurch at the end of January 2012. The conference will run across the 26th and 27th of January and as always will include leading speakers in the field of Internet operations from New Zealand and much farther afield. Training workshops and tutorials will precede the conference and run from the 23rd to the 25th of January. The annual conference, workshops and tutorials are a once a year chance for individuals and organisations involved in Internet operations to meet and share the latest in Internet operations, technology practices and receive high quality training. The event is unique in New Zealand and attracts technical, skilled individuals with a genuine interest in Internet operations and Internetworking technologies. The event will be held at the Copthorne Commodore near Christchurch Airport. Accommodation is available on site as well as in the immediate area. Registrations for the event will open early December. Speakers will be confirmed early December and a full programme issued mid December. The cost of attendance has been confirmed at $250, students receive a 20% discount. For further information: Subscribe to the NZNOG mailing list: http://www.nznog.org/?page_id=5 Visit the conference website: http://2012.nznog.org.nz Follow us on Twitter: @NZNOG Copy of this text can also be found at: http://2012.nznog.org/cms_display.php?sn=20&st=1

3 3

Merry Christmas
by Greg Soffe 19 Dec '11

19 Dec '11

Hi all, I know this is totally off topic. But I wish you all a very merry Christmas, and a very happy New Year. Here's to a 2012 with no network outages, and the best IP services provided by all. And to a slow couple of weeks for those who are 'on call' :) All the best. Greg Soffe Manager Telecom Internet Registry Telecom NZ ltd.

1 0

NZRR Route Registry Update
by NZRR Database Notifications 19 Dec '11

19 Dec '11

Dear Colleague, This is to notify you that one or more objects in which you are designated for notification have been modified in the NZRR routing registry database. These objects are used to configure the various NZIX route servers (http://nzix.net/) so you can expect the relevant servers to be reloaded in the near future. The reloading of the servers is staggered over a period of time so that if you are peering with both servers at an exchange, you can maintain at least one BGP session at all times and consequently a full set of routes. Diagnostic output: ------------------------------------------------------------ --- PREVIOUS OBJECT: route-set: AS9560:RS-ROUTES:AS4826 descr: advertised to AS9560 by Vocus Communications - NO VERIFICATION NEEDED - AS4826 members: 49.224.0.0/14^14-29, 118.92.0.0/15^15-29, 27.252.0.0/16^16-29, 58.28.0.0/16^16-29, 101.100.0.0/16^16-29, 118.90.0.0/16^16-29, 121.90.0.0/16^16-29, 130.217.0.0/16^16-29, 131.203.0.0/16^16-29, 139.80.0.0/16^16-29, 157.128.0.0/16^16-29, 161.29.0.0/16^16-29, 161.65.0.0/16^16-29, 166.65.0.0/16^16-29, 180.216.0.0/16^16-29, 182.154.0.0/16^16-29, 220.253.0.0/16^16-29, 113.203.0.0/17^17-29, 124.170.0.0/17^17-29, 180.181.0.0/17^17-29, 203.109.128.0/17^17-29, 203.173.128.0/17^17-29, 210.48.0.0/17^17-29, 101.0.64.0/18^18-29, 114.129.128.0/18^18-29, 116.90.0.0/18^18-29, 116.251.128.0/18^18-29, 118.67.0.0/18^18-29, 120.88.64.0/18^18-29, 123.100.64.0/18^18-29, 124.157.64.0/18^18-29, 124.198.128.0/18^18-29, 125.209.128.0/18^18-29, 125.253.0.0/18^18-29, 180.181.128.0/18^18-29, 180.200.128.0/18^18-29, 182.160.128.0/18^18-29, 203.89.64.0/18^18-29, 203.113.192.0/18^18-29, 203.114.128.0/18^18-29, 203.118.128.0/18^18-29, 203.208.64.0/18^18-29, 210.15.192.0/18^18-29, 210.185.0.0/18^18-29, 14.1.32.0/19^19-29, 14.192.160.0/19^19-29, 111.67.0.0/19^19-29, 112.141.0.0/19^19-29, 112.141.128.0/19^19-29, 113.192.0.0/19^19-29, 114.198.0.0/19^19-29, 118.127.64.0/19^19-29, 119.15.0.0/19^19-29, 119.252.0.0/19^19-29, 121.79.192.0/19^19-29, 122.99.64.0/19^19-29, 123.100.128.0/19^19-29, 124.6.192.0/19^19-29, 175.107.128.0/19^19-29, 180.148.96.0/19^19-29, 180.200.192.0/19^19-29, 180.214.64.0/19^19-29, 180.222.0.0/19^19-29, 182.48.128.0/19^19-29, 202.45.96.0/19^19-29, 202.59.32.0/19^19-29, 202.89.32.0/19^19-29, 202.171.160.0/19^19-29, 203.96.192.0/19^19-29, 203.129.32.0/19^19-29, 203.152.96.0/19^19-29, 203.188.128.0/19^19-29, 210.54.160.0/19^19-29, 223.27.0.0/19^19-29, 27.124.96.0/20^20-29, 49.213.16.0/20^20-29, 49.236.240.0/20^20-29, 58.84.224.0/20^20-29, 111.118.160.0/20^20-29, 111.125.160.0/20^20-29, 112.109.64.0/20^20-29, 113.20.0.0/20^20-29, 113.192.32.0/20^20-29, 114.31.192.0/20^20-29, 114.111.128.0/20^20-29, 114.134.0.0/20^20-29, 114.142.160.0/20^20-29, 114.198.64.0/20^20-29, 115.146.64.0/20^20-29, 116.66.160.0/20^20-29, 116.90.128.0/20^20-29, 116.199.224.0/20^20-29, 117.53.128.0/20^20-29, 117.53.160.0/20^20-29, 117.55.224.0/20^20-29, 118.127.16.0/20^20-29, 119.10.128.0/20^20-29, 119.47.112.0/20^20-29, 119.63.208.0/20^20-29, 119.160.224.0/20^20-29, 119.161.48.0/20^20-29, 119.161.64.0/20^20-29, 119.224.144.0/20^20-29, 120.138.16.0/20^20-29, 121.54.128.0/20^20-29, 121.79.224.0/20^20-29, 121.127.208.0/20^20-29, 121.200.32.0/20^20-29, 122.252.0.0/20^20-29, 124.155.224.0/20^20-29, 124.248.128.0/20^20-29, 125.214.64.0/20^20-29, 125.253.96.0/20^20-29, 175.107.160.0/20^20-29, 180.181.240.0/20^20-29, 180.235.192.0/20^20-29, 202.3.192.0/20^20-29, 202.4.224.0/20^20-29, 202.37.0.0/20^20-29, 202.46.160.0/20^20-29, 202.53.176.0/20^20-29, 202.55.144.0/20^20-29, 202.60.64.0/20^20-29, 202.63.64.0/20^20-29, 202.68.80.0/20^20-29, 202.73.192.0/20^20-29, 202.78.32.0/20^20-29, 202.80.176.0/20^20-29, 202.81.208.0/20^20-29, 202.86.96.0/20^20-29, 202.87.16.0/20^20-29, 202.126.192.0/20^20-29, 202.129.144.0/20^20-29, 202.137.192.0/20^20-29, 202.144.160.0/20^20-29, 202.170.160.0/20^20-29, 202.174.32.0/20^20-29, 203.2.80.0/20^20-29, 203.17.96.0/20^20-29, 203.82.96.0/20^20-29, 203.83.192.0/20^20-29, 203.88.112.0/20^20-29, 203.96.0.0/20^20-29, 203.96.32.0/20^20-29, 203.130.160.0/20^20-29, 203.145.32.0/20^20-29, 203.149.64.0/20^20-29, 210.56.32.0/20^20-29, 220.235.32.0/20^20-29, 223.165.64.0/20^20-29, 27.34.224.0/21^21-29, 27.111.240.0/21^21-29, 27.121.112.0/21^21-29, 49.156.24.0/21^21-29, 58.6.184.0/21^21-29, 61.8.184.0/21^21-29, 103.29.200.0/21^21-29, 110.44.24.0/21^21-29, 110.76.128.0/21^21-29, 110.232.240.0/21^21-29, 112.109.80.0/21^21-29, 112.140.176.0/21^21-29, 113.29.240.0/21^21-29, 113.192.56.0/21^21-29, 113.212.168.0/21^21-29, 114.31.96.0/21^21-29, 114.110.32.0/21^21-29, 114.111.144.0/21^21-29, 114.141.96.0/21^21-29, 114.141.192.0/21^21-29, 114.198.88.0/21^21-29, 114.198.104.0/21^21-29, 114.198.112.0/21^21-29, 115.31.88.0/21^21-29, 115.124.32.0/21^21-29, 115.126.128.0/21^21-29, 115.178.16.0/21^21-29, 115.178.104.0/21^21-29, 116.50.16.0/21^21-29, 116.90.72.0/21^21-29, 116.212.64.0/21^21-29, 116.251.192.0/21^21-29, 117.18.80.0/21^21-29, 117.104.176.0/21^21-29, 118.88.24.0/21^21-29, 118.127.8.0/21^21-29, 119.15.72.0/21^21-29, 119.18.40.0/21^21-29, 119.63.200.0/21^21-29, 119.82.144.0/21^21-29, 119.252.184.0/21^21-29, 120.29.248.0/21^21-29, 120.89.80.0/21^21-29, 120.136.0.0/21^21-29, 121.0.0.0/21^21-29, 121.54.144.0/21^21-29, 121.79.240.0/21^21-29, 121.127.200.0/21^21-29, 122.49.200.0/21^21-29, 122.102.96.0/21^21-29, 123.176.112.0/21^21-29, 124.149.16.0/21^21-29, 125.214.88.0/21^21-29, 175.45.128.0/21^21-29, 175.107.176.0/21^21-29, 175.176.200.0/21^21-29, 175.176.208.0/21^21-29, 180.94.232.0/21^21-29, 180.189.152.0/21^21-29, 180.214.168.0/21^21-29, 180.235.208.0/21^21-29, 182.23.192.0/21^21-29, 202.3.80.0/21^21-29, 202.12.248.0/21^21-29, 202.20.0.0/21^21-29, 202.36.16.0/21^21-29, 202.36.96.0/21^21-29, 202.37.32.0/21^21-29, 202.37.144.0/21^21-29, 202.37.224.0/21^21-29, 202.46.136.0/21^21-29, 202.49.0.0/21^21-29, 202.49.128.0/21^21-29, 202.50.208.0/21^21-29, 202.60.80.0/21^21-29, 202.74.224.0/21^21-29, 202.78.240.0/21^21-29, 202.80.144.0/21^21-29, 202.83.112.0/21^21-29, 202.86.48.0/21^21-29, 202.86.208.0/21^21-29, 202.92.208.0/21^21-29, 202.92.240.0/21^21-29, 202.126.80.0/21^21-29, 202.160.112.0/21^21-29, 202.162.176.0/21^21-29, 202.168.16.0/21^21-29, 202.170.192.0/21^21-29, 203.14.40.0/21^21-29, 203.17.168.0/21^21-29, 203.33.160.0/21^21-29, 203.63.240.0/21^21-29, 203.79.16.0/21^21-29, 203.98.88.0/21^21-29, 203.149.80.0/21^21-29, 203.168.32.0/21^21-29, 203.174.16.0/21^21-29, 203.188.216.0/21^21-29, 203.212.16.0/21^21-29, 210.9.136.0/21^21-29, 210.79.56.0/21^21-29, 220.235.224.0/21^21-29, 27.96.64.0/22^22-29, 27.100.24.0/22^22-29, 27.106.200.0/22^22-29, 49.128.12.0/22^22-29, 49.143.228.0/22^22-29, 49.156.16.0/22^22-29, 59.86.160.0/22^22-29, 61.69.0.0/22^22-29, 61.69.24.0/22^22-29, 63.217.120.0/22^22-29, 101.234.72.0/22^22-29, 103.1.188.0/22^22-29, 103.1.192.0/22^22-29, 103.2.168.0/22^22-29, 103.2.196.0/22^22-29, 103.3.144.0/22^22-29, 103.5.72.0/22^22-29, 103.5.156.0/22^22-29, 103.5.164.0/22^22-29, 103.10.44.0/22^22-29, 103.22.144.0/22^22-29, 103.23.16.0/22^22-29, 103.29.64.0/22^22-29, 103.29.172.0/22^22-29, 103.29.216.0/22^22-29, 103.246.32.0/22^22-29, 103.246.96.0/22^22-29, 109.200.212.0/22^22-29, 110.173.224.0/22^22-29, 110.173.236.0/22^22-29, 110.232.140.0/22^22-29, 110.232.144.0/22^22-29, 111.125.176.0/22^22-29, 111.235.128.0/22^22-29, 111.235.140.0/22^22-29, 112.141.112.0/22^22-29, 112.141.240.0/22^22-29, 113.130.120.0/22^22-29, 114.23.96.0/22^22-29, 114.31.212.0/22^22-29, 114.141.104.0/22^22-29, 114.141.200.0/22^22-29, 115.69.28.0/22^22-29, 115.69.60.0/22^22-29, 115.178.28.0/22^22-29, 116.118.240.0/22^22-29, 116.118.248.0/22^22-29, 116.251.200.0/22^22-29, 118.127.0.0/22^22-29, 118.127.32.0/22^22-29, 118.127.52.0/22^22-29, 118.127.56.0/22^22-29, 119.17.160.0/22^22-29, 119.17.168.0/22^22-29, 119.161.84.0/22^22-29, 119.252.176.0/22^22-29, 120.29.240.0/22^22-29, 121.127.192.0/22^22-29, 122.100.0.0/22^22-29, 122.100.8.0/22^22-29, 122.102.104.0/22^22-29, 124.108.96.0/22^22-29, 124.171.172.0/22^22-29, 125.254.48.0/22^22-29, 125.254.60.0/22^22-29, 175.41.40.0/22^22-29, 175.107.184.0/22^22-29, 175.111.100.0/22^22-29, 180.148.24.0/22^22-29, 180.148.176.0/22^22-29, 180.189.144.0/22^22-29, 180.200.244.0/22^22-29, 180.210.208.0/22^22-29, 180.235.108.0/22^22-29, 180.235.216.0/22^22-29, 182.16.152.0/22^22-29, 182.50.160.0/22^22-29, 182.54.224.0/22^22-29, 182.237.4.0/22^22-29, 192.173.16.0/22^22-29, 192.189.208.0/22^22-29, 198.48.0.0/22^22-29, 202.0.188.0/22^22-29, 202.6.124.0/22^22-29, 202.36.24.0/22^22-29, 202.36.36.0/22^22-29, 202.37.140.0/22^22-29, 202.37.200.0/22^22-29, 202.41.136.0/22^22-29, 202.44.60.0/22^22-29, 202.45.152.0/22^22-29, 202.50.216.0/22^22-29, 202.53.4.0/22^22-29, 202.55.104.0/22^22-29, 202.60.92.0/22^22-29, 202.69.132.0/22^22-29, [snip... Object abbreviated for readability] changed: rpsl-admin(a)nzix.net 20111216 source: NZRR REPLACED BY: route-set: AS9560:RS-ROUTES:AS4826 descr: advertised to AS9560 by Vocus Communications - NO VERIFICATION NEEDED - AS4826 members: 49.224.0.0/14^14-29, 118.92.0.0/15^15-29, 27.252.0.0/16^16-29, 58.28.0.0/16^16-29, 101.100.0.0/16^16-29, 118.90.0.0/16^16-29, 121.90.0.0/16^16-29, 130.217.0.0/16^16-29, 131.203.0.0/16^16-29, 139.80.0.0/16^16-29, 157.128.0.0/16^16-29, 161.29.0.0/16^16-29, 161.65.0.0/16^16-29, 166.65.0.0/16^16-29, 180.216.0.0/16^16-29, 182.154.0.0/16^16-29, 220.253.0.0/16^16-29, 113.203.0.0/17^17-29, 124.170.0.0/17^17-29, 180.181.0.0/17^17-29, 203.109.128.0/17^17-29, 203.173.128.0/17^17-29, 210.48.0.0/17^17-29, 101.0.64.0/18^18-29, 114.129.128.0/18^18-29, 116.90.0.0/18^18-29, 116.251.128.0/18^18-29, 118.67.0.0/18^18-29, 120.88.64.0/18^18-29, 123.100.64.0/18^18-29, 124.157.64.0/18^18-29, 124.198.128.0/18^18-29, 125.209.128.0/18^18-29, 125.253.0.0/18^18-29, 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Object abbreviated for readability] changed: rpsl-admin(a)nzix.net 20111220 source: NZRR ------------------------------------------------------------

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Something out there hates our IP address
by Julian Maxwell 19 Dec '11

19 Dec '11

Hi Guys, Bit of a lurker - not a poster. Hai! All of this week, our office network here has been experiencing an odd issue of sorts. It goes sort of like this: The NAT'd IP address for our office network is 210.48.17.17. At random times, international destinations stop working, usually for a period of a few minutes. For example, when I first came across the problem I went to download winmtr to try and help diagnose the issue. I then discovered that winmtr was a site that is effected by this problem, so it became my guinea pig site. So using winmtr.net as an example site, the following happens: Ping's work to winmtr.net fine. The website works fine. I go to download the winmtr file... however the download gets interrupted (TCP RST) at between 600kb and 1100kb. This is guaranteed to happen and I have replicated it time and time again. When the download gets interrupted, the pings stop working and I can't access the website anymore. After a period of some minutes, I can again access the website - however the pings remain unreplied. It seems they remain unreplied until I stop the ping, and then after a few minutes I can resume them...as if they are blocked indefinitely until I stop the requests and then after a period they are allowed again....some sort of flood control? Here's a SS of the TCP dump explaining the above. note that the ICMP Echoes have no corresponding reply packets: [Description: Description: cid:image001.png(a)01CCBA7A.B1A181F0] I have ruled out our office firewall as the cause as it happens when I plug in a laptop on the same address, ruling out the firewall. If I change the firewall WAN Ip to anything but 17.17 (Ie: 17.18) everything works fine! Any other device on this subnet has no issues - it is ONLY 17.17. We do have a netenforcer shaper in the path - however I have ruled that out as we bypassed it for a while and the issue still existed. We don't want to have to change the WAN IP to something else as there are a whole bunch of inbound connections going to that IP. But at this stage I can't think of anything else we can do? I have contacted our upstream peer and they say there is no Dos/flood control or anything of sorts on the circuit. It's not just winmtr, but about 70% of international sites we try to access. I have run winmtr (I downloaded it via a VPN, in case you're wondering) and interestingly the path doesn't change much when I break the connection to winmtr.net - however the PL is about 100% anyway after hop 7 so it's not very revealing. So, what say you NZNOGgers that are waiting for 5pm to tick over and drink those Christmas beers? Julian Maxwell

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