Grasping at straws and no disrespect intended but would blocking all outbound connections to port 110 be the kind of thing an ISP like say for example xtra would do? I have a customer/friend that cannot pop there mail from our mail server (pop.dts.net.nz) today. they can ping but not open a connection on port 110. i can see there pings to my box but not there connection requests on port 110. I admit there local systems are a mess at best but before i go around there i thought i'd ask the question. thanks - and thanks for a great NZNOG. i enjoyed watching and learning a lot. Wish i could have been there. cheers Gavin -- Kind Regards Gavin Legge Technical Manager DTS Limited phone +64 4914 5946 email gavin(a)dts.net.nz cellphone 021 441 299