This isn't Campbell Live. This is network operators sharing ideas with, and helping other network operators.

Your help may be to direct him to Telstra's helpdesk. Song and dance are superfluous.

--

Jeremy


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Jeremy Lawson
IT Consultant

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2009/8/11 Dean Pemberton <nznog@deanpemberton.com>
On 11/08/09 12:31 AM, Anton Smith wrote:
> In the beginning when diagnosing the problem, an engineer might not
> even know that the problem lies with Telstra, and we have seen people
> posting http headers and so on in the past wondering what was going
> on.
>

I don't believe that was the case in this instance. �It was not a
general query about a general problem. �It was a specific technical
issue with a specific ISP. �In that case a trouble ticket should be
logged with the ISP first, then post to the list. �I'd even accept if
these were both done at the same time.

To not give the ISP involved a chance to address the issue through
normal customer support channels is not giving them a fair go.
Some ISPs are not very good at customer support, but if you don't log
the call, then how can you expect anything of them.

I'll explain some more why this is so important;
In years gone by, NZNOG was seen by the major Telcos and some ISPs as a
bunch of troublemakers. �I know this for a fact because I've worked for
them while they held this opinion. �They viewed NZNOG as a group of
individuals constantly waiting to bash them at any opportunity. �The
minute that someone found a bug, or a technical issue, they would post
it first to NZNOG and everyone would hang the associated ISP/Telco out
to dry.

As such, no one from those organisations joined NZNOG, contributed to
NZNOG, attended the NZNOG conference, etc etc etc.

Over time we have worked very hard to re-engage with the ISPs and
Telcos, making NZNOG a place where they can derive benefit from
contributing to. �Just today we see Paul Tinson posting about Telecom's
cache changes. �I doubt anyone would disagree that this is the sort of
involvement that we want.

Do you think that TelstraClear are going to engage with NZNOG if just
the week previously an NZNOG member was posting publically about
technical issues on their network before giving them a chance to address
them?

It's a bit like someone buying a shirt at a store, being unhappy with
it, and doing a spot on Campbell Live before �going back to the shop and
asking for a refund. �Now sure, Campbell Live has its place. �It even
has a place for long running retail disputes, but it shouldn't be the
first port of call. �And neither should NZNOG.

We work hard with the Telcos to keep them engaged (the benefits of which
can be seen in Telecoms post this morning), please keep this in mind
when posting. �Just make sure you've worked with them first. �If you
have and they did a bad job, then by all means post and all bets are off =)


Dean




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