Likewise, During a recent restructure of our transit and peering we dropped national peering/APE opting instead for AKL-IX and Mega with a small paid VF/Spark peering session for remote workers. No effective blow back from Top 10 sites or clients over this.

 

We���ve actually found direct bilat peering���s over these fabric���s offers us something transit couldn���t ��� Relationships, Direct peering with Google for example gives us a whole suite of tools paid CDN access in NZ couldn���t around monitoring/performance and creates a better flow for issues between our eyeballs and the CDN networks.

 

Until this thread popped up I���d forgotten this little quirk of Citylink peering and I���m another small voice in favour of just setting a date and removing it

 

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From: nznog-bounces@list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces@list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Jesse Archer
Sent: Monday, 1 August 2016 10:19 PM
To: Tim Hoffman <tim@hoffman.net.nz>
Cc: NZNOG Mailing-List <nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz>
Subject: [nznog] AS paths from NZIX route servers

 

As a smaller eyeball provider, we dropped our 1Gbps port with APE as there wasn't significant inbound traffic that we weren't able to get via NZIX Inc, who now charge $350/m for a 10G port.

 

Megaport's pricing isn't far off this but Citylink were charging more for a 1Gbps and significantly more for 10Gbps.

 

Unsure if their pricing has reduced since their effective monopoly over Auckland peering was disrupted.

 

Transit in NZ is cheaper for any network doing less than 100Mbps regular traffic over peering. 

 

Regardless many smaller networks peer because it's a good thing to do for control, performance and community reasons :)

 

 

Regards,

Jesse



On Sunday, 31 July 2016, Tim Hoffman <tim@hoffman.net.nz> wrote:

I would also note that for some of the smaller folks, watching the falling price of retail internet connectivity from ISPs (per Mbit) while seeing no change at all in the price of a WIX or APE port, peering may not make sense any longer.

 

For these folks, if there is not a significant cost advantage, transit is, simpler, cheaper to run, and doesn't have as much chance of odd routing problems. Perhaps if they cannot bring the technical expertise to the table to be able to maintain an IX connection, it's time to evaluate the TCO of doing it properly or not doing it at all and going to an ISP for all their connectivity needs...

 

https://www.nanog.org/sites/default/files/Temkin_The_Real_Cost.pdf is some interesting reading, and is causing a bit of discussion over this side of the world :).

 

What's the difference in price per 10G between the IX providers in NZ these days anyway?

 

On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Nathan Ward <nznog@daork.net> wrote:

Hi,

 

This is true - people will need to change their config.

 

I am with Tim, however, that we should have a consistent state to get to, and I don���t think it���s unreasonable to say there is a month from today for people to get there, then update config for everyone.

 

In theory, CityLink could do some test prefixes - advertise some prefix with an different first AS than the IX AS, then go ping something in the ISP from both a ���normal��� prefix, and from the test prefix, and look for inconsistency, then reach out and say ���put this config in���.

 

--

Nathan Ward

 

On 1/08/2016, at 17:32, Chris Jones <chrisj@aprole.com> wrote:

 

From a ���least-surprise��� prospective, dropping the IX AS will need peers to set their vendor���s equivalent of ���no bgp enforce-first-as��� on their IX-facing edge router(s).  Having the ability to still send the IX AS to peers on a peer-by-peer basis might help stop those guys completely falling off the AS

 

Chris

 

On 1 Aug 2016, at 3:29 PM, Tim Hoffman <tim@hoffman.net.nz> wrote:

 

What's the value on doing this on a per-peer basis, or allowing any peer to having a differing experience?

 

This would create some level of inconsistency and operational confusion IMHO, particularly given that inserting the IX AS anywhere is far from the standard globally...

 

On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Nathan Ward <nznog@daork.net> wrote:

..and are the least likely to have traffic volumes worth worrying about.

The big content providers are on this list, as are the big eyeballs RS peers. A few weeks should be enough notice I think, I stand in support of 2016-8-31.

--
Nathan Ward


> On 1/08/2016, at 16:58, Richard Nelson <richardn@waikato.ac.nz> wrote:
>
> Equally, those unaware of the necessity are those most unlikely to see a wall of shame...
>
>
> On 1/08/16 4:55 PM, Martin D Kealey wrote:
>> The problem is that, few though they may be, the systems that will need to
>> opt out are the ones mostly likely to be run by people who are unaware of
>> that necessity.
>>
>> Rather, simply set a flag day -- say 1/10/2016 -- and on that date switch
>> over everyone who opts in between now and then. From 1/9 start a "wall of
>> shame" for those who haven't opted in...
>>
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016, Simon Allard wrote:
>>> HI Dave
>>>
>>> Sounds good to me. It will certainly change traffic levels, as carriers with other IX���s will be being preferred  due to the shorter path.
>>>
>>> I would however like to see Opt-Out rather than Opt-in, since it���s a corrective fix to bring APE/WIX inline with IX best practise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: nznog-bounces@list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces@list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Dave Mill
>>> Sent: Monday, 1 August 2016 8:51 a.m.
>>> To: Daniel Griggs <daniel@nzrs.net.nz>
>>> Cc: nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz
>>> Subject: Re: [nznog] AS paths from NZIX route servers
>>>
>>> Would there be any advantage to having a "flag day" for this where the people that opt in to having the RS AS removed from the path will all have it removed on the same day? And then we could all co-ordinate here on any issues that arise?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> Simon Allard | Development & Operations Manager
>>> D: +64 9 550 2790E: Simon.Allard@m2group.co.nz
>>> M: +64 20 1000 790W: vocus.co.nz
>>> A: Level 2, 1-7 The Strand, Takapuna 0622
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Daniel Griggs <daniel@nzrs.net.nz<mailto:daniel@nzrs.net.nz>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds entirely reasonable.
>>>
>>> 100% of people in this thread support this idea.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Griggs
>>> daniel@nzrs.net.nz<mailto:daniel@nzrs.net.nz>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29/07/2016, at 7:12 PM, Sid Jones <nznog@uuuuuu.net<mailto:nznog@uuuuuu.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That obviously will require a little more work on our behalf, indications here of interest would help with that. Input welcomed.
>> _______________________________________________
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>> NZNOG@list.waikato.ac.nz
>> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
>
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