If people are worried about their record of how long they have had a particular range assigned to them you can get archives or delagation from here;
ftp://ftp.apnic.net/pub/apnic/stats/apnic/
The archive go back about 2 years and contain the range, ASN and when it was first allocated (I saw a couple in there that were from 1996). So that might go some way to proving the lineage of a range.
I hope some of that might be useful.
Daniel
Many people would sooner die than think. In fact they do.
Bertrand Russell
--Quoted in Antony Flew's Thinking About Thinking
Simon Lyall wrote:
About a month ago I noticed the whois data for one of my networks had
vanished and called APNIC, they said it was still there (although how I
access it I don't know anymore) but that due to the new confidentially
policy only Telecom would show up in the whois.
I sent in a little request to have it made public but they havn't been. I
might have sent it to the wrong address however. Has anyone had their
whois info changed back to public okay?
Looking at APNIC's fees it looks like the /16s would cost Telecom around
$US 1000 each per year to APNIC.
On the other hand I don't think it is realistic to expect a small company
with a /24, /23 or /22 to be expected to join APNIC and pay $US 2000
plus $US 1250 per year. These days it's simple to multihome for less than
$NZ 1000 per month so APNIC membership could consume 10-20% of a company's
Internet bill.
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Andy Linton wrote:
About a month ago Sid Jones and I had a conversation about one of his
customers who has a /23 in this space. We raised the issue with APNIC and I
attach the thread.
There's a clear implication in the mail below that APNIC expect Telecom NZ to
cooperate on this issue which seems to be at odds with their behaviour over
202.49.252.0 - 202.49.255.255 as David Robb has noted.
I suggest a number of things here:
1) each ISP who routes portions of this block should encourage their customers
to write to APNIC requesting that as this block was allocated via the
University of Waikato which was operating as a proto NZNIC at the time then
this address space should be deemed to be provider independent space which
should be administered as other 'swamp' space.
For example, here's a record that's recently been obscured as part of this
exercise:
inetnum: 202.36.137.0 - 202.36.137.255
> netname: NZMFE
> descr: Ministry for the Environment
> descr: P.O. Box 10-362
> descr: The Terrace
> descr: Wellington
> country: NZ
> admin-c: MB22-AP
> tech-c: MB22-AP
> notify: dbmon@apnic.net
> mnt-by: APNIC-HM
> changed: hostmaster@apnic.net 19931217
> status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE
> changed: hm-changed@apnic.net 20031020
> source: APNIC
This is clearly PORTABLE space and makes no reference to Telecom NZ and the
admin-c and tech-c details were updated just over a year ago. Note that this
address was allocated in 1993 long before Netway (a Telecom NZ subsidiary)
entered the picture at all.
Why are APNIC changing the goal posts?
2) the customers should also write to Telecom NZ making clear that their
portion of address space was not issued to Telecom NZ but to them by the
University of Waikato (acting as a proto NZNIC) and that they want Telecom to
relinquish control of this space back to APNIC.
3) I'd encourage APNIC to look again at this.
4) user groups such as InternetNZ, TUANZ etc need to get across this issue and
raise it with Telecom NZ
5) I'd suggest the press get their teeth into this but that's probably not
necessary as there's no story here. (:-)
andy
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [APNIC #624302] 202.27.0.0/16 and
http://www.apnic.net/info/faq/privacy-faq.html (fwd)] (fwd)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:20:59 +1000 (EST)
From: John Tran <john@apnic.net>
To: asjl@citylink.co.nz
CC: Anne Lord <anne@apnic.net>, Elly Tawhai <elly@apnic.net>, Tim Jones
<tim@apnic.net>
Hi Andy,
We have searched all our historical emails and records regarding NZNIC
as well as all information relating to 202.27.0.0/16. Here is the
summary of what we found.
Before 1995, the following address ranges had been allocated by APNIC
to the University of Waikato, which operated as a gateway for New
Zealand, under the name NZGATE:
202.27/16
202.37/16
202.36/16
202.49/16
202.50/16
These ranges were allocated on the basis that NZGATE would make
further
allocations to their customers.
In 1995, Netway Commnication Ltd took over the international gateway
function from the University of Waikato and the IP addresses were
transfered with APNIC's approval. Netway continued contracting
University of Waikato staff to allocate IP addresses on Netway's
behalf to its customers.
NZNIC was then established by the University of Waikato to obtain
provider independent addresses for other organisations like Clear
Communication and Netlink. Netway was then transfered to NZtelecom in
late 1997, along with the corresponding address space.
In November 1998, because of the confusion in the Internet community
in New Zealand about whether the address space that they obtained from
the University of Waikato was portable or not, APNIC and Brett Telfer
(Netgate) re-confirmed that the above ranges would be best managed by
NZTelecom. Since then, these address ranges are used by APNIC to
determine the membership tier paid by NZtelecom as outlined
in:
http://www.apnic.net/member/feesinfo.html
NZTelcom is able to assist any organisation holding address space with
reverse DNS and is able to change the status of DB object to public,
if so requested.
I hope the above information is useful for you. If you need additional
information please contact us. If you would prefer to discuss this
further, we can arrange a telephone conference.
Regards
Son
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:39:44 +1000 (EST)
From: Anne Lord <anne@apnic.net>
To: Andy Linton <asjl@citylink.co.nz>
Cc: son@apnic.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [APNIC #624302] 202.27.0.0/16 and
http://www.apnic.net/info/faq/privacy-faq.html (fwd)]
hi Andy,
Thanks for your email. I'm no longer involved in handling resource
requests, but I have copied Son Tran, the manager of the Member Services
department, on this email, who is and who will be able to help you.
It certainly looks like this warrants a much closer examination of the
records and history and I am sure Son would be happy to talk to you.
Best wishes,
Anne
cc: Son
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Andy Linton wrote:
Anne,
I've had a conversation today with Sid Jones about this mail. These blocks
were allocated to the University of Waikato which operated as the proto NZNIC
in the early nineties prior to APNIC handling this work.
Aaron Scott who is listed in the changed record below went to work for Telecom
NZ when they took over handling the exchange point at Waikato. There are a
significant number of NZ government departments and other "blue chip"
identities listed in the records who don't use Telecom NZ as their ISP and who
believe that they have portable space. Some of them have /21 allocations and
perhaps even /20 allocations.
This whole set of blocks really should be considered as swamp space.
I will be raising this issue on the NZNOG mailing list suggesting that those
entities who have had these blocks allocated to then for periods in the order
of 10 years or more should contact you asking for clarification of their position.
I think it would be good if APNIC took a good look at the allocations within
these ranges and considered what's going on here.
Happy to discuss - +64 4 910 5654
andy
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:44:30 +1000
From: gpan via RT <helpdesk@apnic.net>
To: sid@tsnz.net
Subject: [APNIC #624302] 202.27.0.0/16 and
http://www.apnic.net/info/faq/privacy-faq.html
Dear Sid,
Thank you for your enquiry. It was proposed at the APNIC 16
meeting in 2003 that customer assignments (and sub-allocation
records) need no longer be publicly accessible via normal
'whois' queries to the APNIC Whois Database.
Customer registration records must still be registered within
the APNIC Whois Database, in order to document address
utilisation, however a new 'public' database attribute has been
created to allow these records to be excluded from public whois
query results. This is why you are unable to receive any
result when querying the APNIC Whois Database about this
particular /23. You will get the result as:
inetnum: 202.27.0.0 - 202.27.255.255
netname: NZGATE-NZ
descr: NZ Gate National Service Provider
descr: Component of University Of Waikato
descr: New Zeland
country: NZ
admin-c: DBK1-AP
tech-c: KS61-AP
remarks: service provider
notify: dbmon@apnic.net
mnt-by: APNIC-HM
mnt-lower: NZTELECOM
changed: ARRON@WAIKATO.AC.NZ 19950612
changed: hostmaster@apnic.net 20020208
changed: hm-change@apnic.net 20020621
status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE
source: APNIC
Information contained within the historical records outlines that
NZTelecom has full authority over the following blocks:
202.27.0.0/16
202.36.0.0/16
202.37.0.0/16
202.49.0.0/16
202.50.0.0/16
203.96.0.0/17
Information from those records also outline that the assignments from
these ranges are non portable.
202.27.xx.0/23
This address space is from a block allocated, by APNIC to NZTelecom.
This means that all assignments made from this block are non portable.
If your customer would like to see or change their records in APNIC
whois database, please advise them to contact NZ Telecom.
Best Regards,
Guangliang
____________________________________________________________________
Guangliang Pan, Internet Resource Analyst <gpan@apnic.net>
Asia Pacific Network Information Centre phone: +61 7 3858 3100
http://www.apnic.net fax: +61 7 3858 3199
Helpdesk phone: +61 7 3858 3188
email: helpdesk@apnic.net
Please send Internet Resource Requests to <hostmaster@apnic.net>
_____________________________________________________________________
[sid@tsnz.net - Wed Oct 20 12:27:02 2004]:
Hi
I'm writing to you on behalf of one of my customers XXXXXXX > > as we have something of a dilemma.
I believe the XXXXXX applied for some PI address space from the
university of waikato sometime in the mid-1990s and were allocated
203.27.xx.0/23.
I also believe this space was "swamp" space and not allocated to any
of the various service providers in New Zealand.
They have had this space routed to them via effectively the same
provider since then. The provider for the past 3 years has been
TelstraClear NZ Ltd, prior to that it was Telstra NZ Ltd and
previously Netlink
Can you please clarify who the /23 is allocated to.
Can you please clarify if the customer can still use this space while
connected to the provider they have had for the past decade.
Further if this is the case how do we get the current records updated
to reflect this sub-delegation. I'm also curious as to what effect
if
any this has on other customers I have in 202.27/16
_______________________________________________
NZNOG mailing list
NZNOG@list.waikato.ac.nz
http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG@list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog