Here's something that I think a few people may have overlooked... It seems to me that the new JetStream 'surf' products are just Telecom/Xtra's early implementation of the Bitstream product that the telecommunications commissioner recently ORDERED Telecom to wholesale to other providers. For those that missed it, Telecom has been told that they MUST provide a reasonably priced wholesale ADSL product (bitstream) to other ISP's, or they risk full unbundling of the local loop. (See www.comcom.govt.nz if you're in the dark about all this) So what has just happened, is that Telecom have worked out the pricing that OTHER ISPs are likely to come up with once they have the bitstream service to wholesale, and have simply launched to market first. We are in negotiations with Telecom regarding bitstream, and I am hopeful that we will be able to come up with an arrangement that will be beneficial to Orcon and the other 40+ ISP's that we wholesale ADSL services to. Once we have the technical issues with Telecom worked out over provisioning bistream I don't see why we won't be able to provide a flat-rate domestic ADSL service with differing downstream International data caps for a decent price per month. After all - once we wholesale bitstream it is totally up to us what we sell it to the customer at, and whether we provide flat rate domestic, data caps or a totally flat rate service altogether. One issue for small providers may be that it looks as though the investment in infrastructure required to wholesale bitstream may be prohibitive - however that's what we're here for - to help those guys out :-) Cheers Seeby Woodhouse Managing Director Orcon Internet Limited - www.orcon.net.nz Mob +64 (0) 21 366 666 / Wk +64 (9) 444 4414 ext 700