On Wed, Jul 18, 2001 at 09:40:32AM +1200, Arron @ Netgate wrote: "IPV6 is like a nuclear weapon, you hope you will never have to use it, but it's nice to know it's there just in case" Oh, I don't know... I think the deployment of something like a B53 would be kinda neat. Pity is was replaced.[1] I have been watching this space for a LONG time, seven years odd, and spoken to numerous people about it. It seems to me we will see a significant partitioned v6 world first, gateways to the IPv4 will connect the historical to the new. We almost have that right now... Plenty of hosts are on it, including several New Zealand companies. Many of the services that exist on it, are only available in this ipv6 world, and not via other means (and I'm about to create a whole lot more!). The worst thing about the present situation, is that large tracks of it exist via tunnels, and that really sucks, routing decisions are not made wisely and redundancy gets more complex, so the experience you get is really quite terrible. I have seen strong suggestions from the mobile space where G3 phones will be generally VoIPv6, but significant amounts of mobile telephony will not directly connect to the big-I, and conversion gateways, GPRS gateway's etc, will hide the huge IPv6 partitions. Oh, they most certainly are. Mobile phone companies want IPv6. I'm not sure why they want it, but then away, I never understood WAP either. Anyhow, they want it --- and will build technology around it. It will have to be gatewayed to get any use at all to start with. Long term, gateways will only work for certain protocols though. If in the future, I want to use some otherwise unsupported protocol using my iCrack client, connected via bluetooth or whatever to my Nokia 666i, I really may need unmolested IP connectivity right through the device. Still some countries, obviously China, Japan, etc, see it as essential to their growth, so I suppose it will grow out of those new worlds, where the trasition from IPv4 will not be so great. Massive chunks of Japan have already shown they don't need IPv6, they are behind proxies and NAT. Good bad or otherwise, plenty of people do it with reasonable amounts of success --- even various NZ Universities who have historic class-B space are actually sitting behind a /29 and not even using their /16 at all (after all, they are trying to sell it!) Just because there is enough address space in v4 for quite some time, a significant change in the types of devices and market could damage that overnight. Actually, 96.0.0.0 -> 126.255.255.255 is reserved right now. They could delve into that if required (ignoring all the horrible kit and misconfigured hosts out there what might break). And right now, many people do use address space most frivilously. I've been responsible for submitting second-opinion request to APNIC hopethey they would be turned down because the customer is being a moron, when APNIC approve them :( One way for ISPs and carriers to deal with this, is simply to charge a nominal (but non-trivial) free for each and every address used, hopefully encouraging the clueless masses to either by more efficient in the way they use address space, or stay off the 'net. --cw [1] B53 was replace by B61-11 in the late 80s I think. Both are designed for penetrating bunkers and such like. The B53 was a 9MT air-bust device, the B61-11 a 500kT ground penetrating device. I think I know which one would look the best :) --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog