I can see your point below already beginning to happen in Wellington / Auckland. We have migrated a lot of clients to wireless providers we have an interest with. Not only are the flat rate connections what borders on "True Broadband" but you can bundle services like end to end VPN and BGP . It was in 2001 IDG reported that telecom was developing a disparity between its Retail and Wholesale services, Makes it hard when your buying apples and packaging it up as an orange to the client ( Seeby might agree with me after reading his last post ) Recently I moved a client from telecom to wired county, turned out they got ~1mb for the price of 256k from Telecom , the ultimate irony was the telecom link was provisioned over DSL with a couple of M1122's , Confidence ? .... Nope mine all gone. Best Regards Matt Brown Managing Director, Data Sanctuary Internet Backup & B & R Holdings LTD Nelson, New Zealand mailto: matt.brown(a)datasanctuary.co.nz http://www.datasanctuary.co.nz MSN: Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz DDI: (03) 544 9116 MOB: 027 4807731 <Cut Cut Snip > I am beginning to agree with other users on this thread. Let's put some alternate infrastructre in place and get some competition going. Woosh wireless manage to offer a flat-rate 256Kbits/sec connection over _cellular_ equipment for chrissakes! No cables AND it's portable! ICONZ Wireless on Waiheke offers 2Mbits/sec symmetical wireless connections, the largest of which offer 10GB of _international_ access for less than $99/month and throws in free totally unmetered line-speed flat-rate domestic access and that's _RETAIL_, not a pretend wholesale product. Sod this ADSL thing - it's damage - route around it. JSR -- John S Russell | Big Geek | Doing geek stuff. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by 2Sell Internet using Declude]