Re: [nznog] NZNOG Trustees: Act on NZNOG Website

On 2013-04-01, at 05:14, Daniel Richards wrote:

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Andy Linton wrote:

...

Another option of course is to ask the question: Has NZNOG done its dash?

The list rarely contains anything of real interest, there's a real struggle to get good papers for presentation at the meeting and the major ISP players don't really care or take part.

I guess the question would be WHY don't the major ISP's take part? What needs to change for them to do so? (Either at said ISPs/teleco's or outside them)

Years ago when I was at CLEAR, I used to simply post without reservation. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it was to ask for permission. You may have noticed. Actually things haven't changed that much (for me, I mean; I can't speak for TelstraSaturnNetlinkParadiseClearVodaHUG). My impression from the brief periods I've spent in-country since CLEAR had a simple name is that the kinds of people who are happy to speak freely have no problem finding people to speak to without using this list. That's a symptom of the fact that the New Zealand operator ecosystem is smaller and more tightly-knit than in other places. If you can hit people up over twitter or jabber or text or e-mail directly, why bother using a list? Perhaps the list no longer fills a need, and perhaps the lack of involvement of "the major ISP players" is a symptom rather than a cause. I will say that the NZNOG meeting continues to have the best speakers and the best content of any NetOps meeting I attend. I think the meeting has great value, beyond the beer even, regardless of the usefulness of this mailing list. If the meetings have value, then it follows that the meeting materials have value. I agree that not making those easy to find is a mistake that should be fixed. There's an inference in parts of this thread that there are volunteers who are offering to help and who are being ignored. The communication aspects of that situation also need fixing, if that's what happening. Perhaps the right thing there is to act more like a community and less like users of a service, and send such suggestions (and pointers to work done, etc) to the public list, rather than to any perceived management layer. Joe