So that one opens the can of worms.

If users are paying their ISP to access "all" content - is it the responsibility of the ISP or the content supplier to ensure quality of access to all content (within reason)?

What if the content supplier does not charge the user at all and relies on alternative revenue streams?

Macca


On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Barry Murphy <barry@vibecommunications.co.nz> wrote:
I actually read an excllent post last week about how large ISP��s can race
to the bottom on price and offer unlimited by getting the content
providers to pay for the shortfall in end user revenue.
I know it��s nothing new but explains it really well and shows you why
paying for use is better than unlimited so worth a read
http://blog.ip.fi/2014/02/why-you-should-want-metered-inet.html


Kind regards,
Barry Murphy / Chief Operating Officer
+64 27 490 9712��/ barry@vibecommunications.co.nz
��<http://www.vibecommunications.co.nz/>
<https://www.facebook.com/VibeCom>�� <https://twitter.com/vibecomnz>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/1941512>
Office: +64 9 222 0000 / Fax: 0800 842 326
Unit A7, 1 Beresford Square, Auckland, New Zealand
Web: www.vibecommunications.co.nz <http://www.vibecommunications.co.nz/> /
Peering: AS45177 <http://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=45177>
This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are
not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me
immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this
communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that
this communication does not designate an information system for the
purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002.








From:�� McDonald Richards <mcdonald.richards@gmail.com>
Date:�� Monday, 3 November 2014 10:13 pm
To:�� Petri Ojala <petri.ojala@gmail.com>
Cc:�� nznog <nznog@list.waikato.ac.nz>, "dean@deanpemberton.com"
<dean@deanpemberton.com>
Subject:�� Re: [nznog] CloudFlare Peering Blog


Mobile in Australia is an oligarchy. Since the collapse of ISPone there
seems to be an active effort being put in by the 3 mobile carriers
(Telstra, Optus, VHA) to protect their margins and make it as difficult as
possible for MVNOs to start
��up. Prepaid plans should not be that expensive - I have had worse
experiences in Germany.

Your home Internet is a different story. The caps exist to support the
limited resource. Unlimited has been tried and is always abused. The
wholesale access charges within Australia require ISP's set limits or it's
the same as everyone leaving their taps
��running and lights on.

Cloudflare's experience with Australian bandwidth pricing will be related
to the costs charged by the tier 1 carriers (Optus, Telstra and AAPT
[note: AAPT may have started peering; I am a little out of the game there
now]). They will be seeking direct
��access to eyeballs and being charged for the privilege, much the same as
the issues Netflix is facing with eyeball carriers in the USA.

On the cost front, the underlying delivery cost for some of these networks
is higher, as they try to keep consistent pricing across all regions of
Australia. People in small towns pay the same prices as people in the
largest cities. The country is big
��and the population density is low. Contrast that to Europe, and carriers
there have a much easier time making money.

Despite all of this, negotiating peering (paid or otherwise) in Europe
with their incumbent carriers is just as difficult and costly as in
Australia :)�� - unless you are Cloudflare-size and have hit that critical
mass of outbound content that makes you
��attractive to these incumbents.

Macca




On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Petri Ojala
<petri.ojala@gmail.com> wrote:


We spend our winter in Sydney.�� While not directly related to the carrier
bandwidth costs, my mobile charges will triple and broadband internet cost
will be seven fold.

In addition to the increased costs the services will be slower and I��m
getting data caps, which I don��t have in Europe.�� The offerings are
crippled by mandatory landlines, 24-month contracts and various other
requirements and fees.�� While one can get Telstra
��Cable without a minimum contract, it comes with a mandatory landline that
has penalties if terminated too early.�� I won��t even go into details about
the customer experience getting the broadband..

I think it tells a story if CloudFare pays the same amount for Australia
as they do for all of Europe.�� I was actually thinking about buying
Telstra stock simply because it��s de-facto monopoly in the country and not
much light at the other end of the tunnel.

Petri

On 3 November 2014 at 10:14:21, McDonald Richards
(mcdonald.richards@gmail.com) wrote:

Keep in mind that this refers to "Benchmark pricing" with $10 being the
benchmark for the USA.

Do your own math and draw conclusions from that extrapolation :)

Macca


On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Dean Pemberton
<nznog@deanpemberton.com> wrote:

Interesting article from CloudFlare...

http://blog.cloudflare.com/the-relative-cost-of-bandwidth-around-the-world/

While NZ isn't mentioned I'm picking we get lumped in with Australia
for which they have this to say...

"Australia

Australia is the most expensive region in which we operate, but for an
interesting reason. We peer with virtually every ISP in the region
except one: Telstra. Telstra, which controls approximately 50% of the
market, and was traditionally the monopoly telecom provider, charges
some of the highest transit pricing in the world ��� 20x the benchmark
($200/Mbps). Given that we are able to peer approximately half of our
traffic, the effective bandwidth benchmark price is $100/Mbps.

To give you some sense of how out-of-whack Australia is, at CloudFlare
we pay about as much every month for bandwidth to serve all of Europe
as we do to for Australia. That��s in spite of the fact that
approximately 33x the number of people live in Europe (750 million)
versus Australia (22 million).

If Australians wonder why Internet and many other services are more
expensive in their country than anywhere else in the world they need
only look to Telstra. What's interesting is that Telstra maintains
their high pricing even if only delivering traffic inside the country.
Given that Australia is one large land mass with relatively
concentrated population centers, it's difficult to justify the pricing
based on anything other than Telstra's market power. In regions like
North America where there is increasing consolidation of networks,
Australia's experience with Telstra provides a cautionary tale."
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