You forgot option 4: Drink alot of beer and tell your customers that Xtra are idiots! :) Joe. Brian Gibbons wrote:

...

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Hutchinson" We are currently having an issue with one of our Exchange servers sending email to user mailboxes on Xtra.

Is anyone else having this issue?

(It would be nice to know that we're not the only ones being picked on by Yahoo.)

If you dig through the archives you will see this has been discussed a few times before.

...

http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

The outcome: You have three choices.

1. Spend an unbelievable amount of time filling in forms and following broken links on the Yahoo site trying to get your servers whitelisted; eventually throwing your hands up into the air as you come to the realisation that no one @ Yahoo cares about your problem, in fact you begin to wonder if the procedure you just followed was designed to make you give up.

2. Throw you hands up now.

3. Drink a lot of beer and choose between 1 and 2 above.

Cheers

BG

---------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message has passed virus scanning by Outersite Technology. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

-----Original Message-----

...

We are currently having an issue with one of our Exchange servers sending email to user mailboxes on Xtra.

Is anyone else having this issue?

(It would be nice to know that we're not the only ones being picked on by Yahoo.)

If you dig through the archives you will see this has been discussed a few times before.

...

http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

The outcome: You have three choices.

1. Spend an unbelievable amount of time filling in forms and following broken links on the Yahoo site trying to get your servers whitelisted; eventually throwing your hands up into the air as you come to the realisation that no one @ Yahoo cares about your problem, in fact you begin to wonder if the procedure you just followed was designed to make you give up.

2. Throw you hands up now.

3. Drink a lot of beer and choose between 1 and 2 above.

I appreciate the beer drinking. I don't really drink much beer, but I think I'm going to need to by the end of the day. So.. what I've so far gleaned from the archives, and from talking to whoever I can get my hands-around-the-neck-of, is that I need to talk to all the individual users at xtra we are sending mail to, and have them browse their email with webmail, go into their Spam folder, and select mail that isn't spam, and click on a not-spam link for each piece of spam-that-isn't-spam. That is going to be a nightmare, and I don't want to do it. Surely there must be some other resolution to the issue? I know that moving everyone away from Xtra would work, but that is also a very big move, especially as we have people that will refuse to give up their long-standing email addresses at Xtra. Cheers, Michael Hutchinson

So.. what I've so far gleaned from the archives, and from talking to whoever I can get my hands-around-the-neck-of, is that I need to talk to all the individual users at xtra we are sending mail to, and have them browse their email with webmail, go into their Spam folder, and select mail that isn't spam, and click on a not-spam link for each piece of spam-that-isn't-spam.

Our experience to date has been that some Xtra Email users don't even know they have a webmail environment in fact most of them don't even know what webmail is !! They have been popping from a mailbox and that is all they used to need to do in the past. Now they are missing emails ....... Glen.

Mail server administrators do tend to deploy deliberately broken primary or secondary MXs to divert spam. I cannot comment whether or not Yahoo! are doing this. On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 15:29 +1300, Joe wrote:

Hi All,

Had a customer of ours, no one on xtra could send e-mails they just got bounce backs.

In this instance the Secondary MX was not accepting mail (The Daemon had crashed), the primary was fine however and no one else had issues sending mail there.

Does anyone know if this is some kind of feature with Xtra's mailservers, to choose the secondary over the primary MX?

Regards,

Joe. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog -- -Michael Fincham Unleash Technology Solutions www.unleash.co.nz Phone: 0800 750 250 Mobile: 027 666 4482

Mail server administrators do tend to deploy deliberately broken

Joe, A standard MTA will try a secondary MX if the available connections on the primary are exhausted. If the secondary system is not configured to relay mail for the domain then a bounce will occur as a 500 level error should be returned. I have noticed that from time to time this will happen if the primary MX is using some form of connection management, or is just under stress. You should ether configure your server to accept email for them or remove it as a secondary MX All the best. Greg Soffe Mail Administrator Telecom NZ Ltd -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:h4xz0r(a)loose.net.nz] Sent: Friday, 22 February 2008 3:35 p.m. To: Michael Fincham Cc: nznog Subject: Re: [nznog] Xtra(Yahoo) Mail going to 2nd MX by default I would like to re-word that as reading it again It doesn't make sense to me :-/ A customer of ours runs their own mailserver, we do backup mx for them. People on xtra couldn't send mail getting a bounce back due to our secondary mailserver not accepting mail, their primary was fine however. Joe. Michael Fincham wrote: primary

or secondary MXs to divert spam. I cannot comment whether or not Yahoo! are doing this.

On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 15:29 +1300, Joe wrote:

...

Hi All,

Had a customer of ours, no one on xtra could send e-mails they just got bounce backs.

In this instance the Secondary MX was not accepting mail (The Daemon had crashed), the primary was fine however and no one else had issues sending mail there.

Does anyone know if this is some kind of feature with Xtra's mailservers, to choose the secondary over the primary MX?

Regards,

Joe. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

Michael Fincham wrote:

Mail server administrators do tend to deploy deliberately broken primary or secondary MXs to divert spam. I cannot comment whether or not Yahoo! are doing this.

If I recall correctly, Yahoo use qmail. If so then, yeah their primary and secondary MX's could be described as deliberately broken. zing...

On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 15:29 +1300, Joe wrote:

...

Hi All,

Had a customer of ours, no one on xtra could send e-mails they just got bounce backs.

In this instance the Secondary MX was not accepting mail (The Daemon had crashed), the primary was fine however and no one else had issues sending mail there.

Does anyone know if this is some kind of feature with Xtra's mailservers, to choose the secondary over the primary MX?

Regards,

Joe. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

I went through the postmaster method and got stock standard replies 4 times over 5 weeks, so spoke with ted once I had ticket numbers, he was then able to get these actioned to allow our new mail server through. So in the first case use the yahoo, then contact Ted with ticket numbers, but the problem is not fixed its still a big issue for customers hosting servers with us. b On Tue, 6 May 2008 13:12:13 +1200, Nathan Ward wrote:

On 6/05/2008, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Sheehan wrote:

...

Hi,

Has anyone been able to make any headway with respect to bypassing this problem, yahoo are largely unresponsive, Done all the usual and have implemented SPF, but still have issues with delivery rates to xtra addresses.

Have you yourself spoken to Ted Grenfell?

Michael Hutchinson mentioned that he was working with Ted on this issue, and was trying to collate more data.

You are still having problems, so clearly either: a) The issue is unresolved. b) You are having a different issue.

My strong recommendation is to talk with Ted, or one of the Xtra postmasters.

http://list.waikato.ac.nz/pipermail/nznog/2006-December/012362.html

Thanks,

-- Nathan Ward

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The most effective method to solving this I have found is to get people to stop using yahoo based services. You also usually find that a whole range of things improve as a result. jamie On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 21:23 -0400, Joe Abley wrote:

On 5 May 2008, at 20:59, Stephen Sheehan wrote:

...

Has anyone been able to make any headway with respect to bypassing this problem,

If you expand this to the entire, global Yahoo! mail empire, my experience (and those of others who frequently raise these threads on *NOG lists, apparently) is that the answer to your question is simply "no".

In fact, I fully expect this mail not to get to you.

Joe

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-----Original Message----- From: Stephen Sheehan [mailto:axpunix(a)yahoo.com] Sent: 6 May 2008 1:00 p.m. To: Michael Hutchinson Cc: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] XTRA(yahoo) automatically tagging legitimate mail as Spam

Hi,

Has anyone been able to make any headway with respect to bypassing this problem, yahoo are largely unresponsive, Done all the usual and have implemented SPF, but still have issues with delivery rates to xtra addresses.

Hello, Stephen. I'm afraid things have not yet been resolved over at Yahoo. - We still smart-host the problem server in order to bypass Xtra tagging mail from it as SPAM and filing it into their own user's SPAM folder for them. We understand this is happening because of a *historical* RBL record, which has been cleared for over a year. I thought I was going to be making headway with Ted Grenfell - this unfortunately came to a standstill when after supplying details to Ted of the incident, he redirected me to another one of those Yahoo web-forms no-one seems to get replies to. Fun, and Joy. I *really* *did* *not* want to jump on this bandwagon: "have all your clients move away from Yahoo/Xtra" As I believed I would eventually be able to solve the problem. This is not the case. The people that can solve the problem are not listening, and do not want to listen, and aren't going to anytime soon. It's good to know you got SPF up and running.. presumably you can deliver OK to Xtra/Yahoo now, but are getting some kind of slow-down? My recommendation about the whole Xtra thing is this: Option 1: if you have plenty of time to waste (and I really mean that) feel free to get hold of Ted, and Yahoo, and Xtra and whoever else you think might have influence on the situation. Be prepared for unresponsiveness and unwillingness to deal with the problem and incredibly long wait times for _anything_ to happen (even for a reply saying "I can't help you"). Option 2: Remove all your clients from Xtra/Yahoo and host their mail yourself. The headache will be gone and the Migrane will not occur. Option 3: Bury your head in the sand and pretend there is no problem. (hmm.. don't yahoo/xtra already do this?). Sorry I can't be of more help, but we're still having issues and its getting towards 2 months of .. nothing being done about it. I may dare to raise the subject with the Boss at some stage, but it will be to have the Static IP of our affected Exchange server changed to something that doesn't have RBL history. (insert swear words here) Anyway, that's my take on it. Don't forget the grain of salt where required. Cheers, Michael Hutchinson Manux Solutions Limited.

On 7 May 2008, at 00:09, Ted Grenfell wrote:

Instead, you should follow the directions from www.yahoo.com/ postmaster as that's the quickest route to the folk that will make any required changes.

Meta-hint (not to Ted :-) -- don't be surprised if you try to follow the links recorded with the 4xx or 5xx messages from Yahoo! you'll find in your MTA logs. The last time I tried, every single link was broken, and redirected to a generic "how to use your yahoo! mail account" page. Joe

It seems that some people have just given up trying to fix/workaround the issue, e.g. this TM auction: *http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.asp?id=156671336*http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.asp?id=156671336 Quote: "xtra.co.nz user PLEASE DO NOT BID, Seller is tired of email being trapped by xtra's spam filer. If you insist to bid, use only hotmail or gmail account to write to seller. Thanks." 2008/5/28 Skip Parker :

Has anyone had any experience on using a certified email solution like Goodmail's CertifiedEmail in relation to combating Xtra/Yahoos over zealous spam filters?

Like others were basically numb from bashing our heads against the Yahoo Wall.

Skip Parker

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I've been hit by this hard with my photography business. I have to ring all @xtra.co.nz addresses, and boy is that fun trying to read out a URL for them to download their photos from. Trademe should create an internal messaging system, but that's a topic for another forum/mail-list. - Drew Nathan Ward wrote:

I haven't bought anything from trademe in ages, but I seem to remember that stuff all going via web forms and things - you didn't get their email address unless they typed it in to a message?

On 29/05/2008, at 9:17 AM, Paul Adshead wrote:

...

It seems that some people have just given up trying to fix/ workaround the issue, e.g. this TM auction: http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.asp?id=156671336

Quote: "xtra.co.nz user PLEASE DO NOT BID, Seller is tired of email being trapped by xtra's spam filer. If you insist to bid, use only hotmail or gmail account to write to seller. Thanks."

2008/5/28 Skip Parker : Has anyone had any experience on using a certified email solution like Goodmail's CertifiedEmail in relation to combating Xtra/Yahoos over zealous spam filters?

Like others were basically numb from bashing our heads against the Yahoo Wall.

Skip Parker

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!DSPAM:22,483dcc43238111116611703! _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

!DSPAM:22,483dcc43238111116611703!

-- Nathan Ward

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