On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

not really wanting to say this but... thats assuming that you use it 24hrs a day, the average user(not my average use, or probably yours but...) doesnt use their net connection 24hrs a day, assuming the average user does 8 hrs a day(a fairly high average I'd have throught), thats 12kbytes a second, which is just about fine. I'd have throught the average user would be somewhere nearer to 4 or maybe 6 hours a day, but anyway.

Well, see now, my home machines actually tend to keep doing things via the internet, even when I'm not physically sitting in front of them and looking at stuff in a browser. In fact, I (and most of the people reading this list) tend to be use _less_ traffic at home than "power users" - because all our personal high-bandwidth p2p apps and audio/video streams and suchlike live on servers which tend to be connected to ISP core networks, or live in ISP co-location space. 12K/sec is "fine"? Great! I think I'd like to listen to Twisted Radio's high-quality web stream, and also .... oh, wait, I was going to talk about some other common internet stuff there, but I've pretty much already used up most of 12K/sec. Well, perhaps I'll turn all that stuff off, plunk myself down on the couch, fire up the xbox and pull up one of r2's high-quality video streams to watch on ... oh, no, I guess I sure as hell won't be doing that. And neither will anyone else at 256Kbits/sec, flat rate or not-flat rate. Because 256Kbits/sec is obscenely slow. A key point here is not to think about what most people currently do with their internet connection, it's to think about what they _could_ be doing if they had _real_ broadband. The lost opportunities from this lack of connectivity is the thing that people ought to really be mad about. A 256Kbits/sec bit rate, of which you will be allowed to sustain a fraction thereof, on a service which can do _8Mbits/sec_ is frankly, a load of ass. There are test residential FTTP installations in prodution elsewhere_right now_. True optical to the home - not science fiction, if you live in the right place you can just Go Buy One. I can see that from Telecom if it gets here - 10GBits/sec to the home, and you get a full 10Gbits/sec if you connect to Telecoms content server domains or gaming realms, and if you go anywhere else ... well, as you've pointed out, 12K/sec is "fine" isn't it? Speaking of which, I must point out yet again, The Telecom ADSL product somehow can do a full 8Mbits/sec speed flat-rate _FREE_ connection to one national platform (Jetstreamgames) yet somehow is "not provisioned" to do more than 10GB/month to another national platform (Any Non-Telecom ISP). Hell, TCNZ, I'll just run some optical cable over to wherever your JSG servers are, and .. oh, no, can't do that either. Why? "Policy", last time I asked. As I said in an earlier post to NZNOG, it's just Business As Usual. And you can't blame Telecom for it, they're just trying to protect their stock price and dividend, it's what they're legally obliged to do! It is, however, the job of the government to point at corporate interests and say "Oi! You're in a monopolistic position with regards to this resource, and we're _ordering_ you to do something that you naturally wouldn't do and open it up to others!" That didn't happen, though, did it? I am beginning to agree with other users on this thread. Let's put some alternate infrastructre in place and get some competition going. Woosh wireless manage to offer a flat-rate 256Kbits/sec connection over _cellular_ equipment for chrissakes! No cables AND it's portable! ICONZ Wireless on Waiheke offers 2Mbits/sec symmetical wireless connections, the largest of which offer 10GB of _international_ access for less than $99/month and throws in free totally unmetered line-speed flat-rate domestic access and that's _RETAIL_, not a pretend wholesale product. Sod this ADSL thing - it's damage - route around it. JSR -- John S Russell | Big Geek | Doing geek stuff.