Interestign wee article: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10113474 Somebody might know this fior sure but doesn't AT&T (trademe's upstream) connect to APE? Just I can't see trademe's routes being advertised there. -- Simon J. Lyall. | Very Busy | Mail: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Simon Lyall wrote:
Somebody might know this fior sure but doesn't AT&T (trademe's upstream) connect to APE? Just I can't see trademe's routes being advertised there.
They only peer with the route servers, I'm told. They don't actually do traffic exchange with anyone. -- Matthew Poole "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
On 4/03/2005 3:28 p.m., Matthew Poole wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Simon Lyall wrote:
Somebody might know this fior sure but doesn't AT&T (trademe's upstream) connect to APE? Just I can't see trademe's routes being advertised there.
They only peer with the route servers, I'm told. They don't actually do traffic exchange with anyone.
Traffic to Stuff.co.nz (who are also AT&T) seems to go through APE, though Trade Me doesn't: traceroute to www.stuff.co.nz (202.135.111.130), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 tig-nz-akl-pppoe-2-lo0.ihug.net (203.109.156.165) 18.686 ms 34.734 ms 18.943 ms 2 203-109-156-201.ihug.net (203.109.156.201) 19.886 ms 21.693 ms 30.483 ms 3 203-109-156-98.ihug.net (203.109.156.98) 20.078 ms 32.869 ms 26.030 ms 4 att.ape.net.nz (192.203.154.74) 31.319 ms 44.915 ms 21.142 ms 5 prodigy-nanuet.ny.us.prserv.net (165.87.66.121) 24.726 ms 21.347 ms 19.350 ms 6 165.87.67.82 (165.87.67.82) 43.531 ms 36.359 ms 33.459 ms 7 32.114.204.14 (32.114.204.14) 28.945 ms 57.320 ms 62.977 ms 8 202.135.111.130 (202.135.111.130) 43.634 ms 57.907 ms 34.774 ms traceroute to trademe.co.nz (202.21.128.2), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 tig-nz-akl-pppoe-2-lo0.ihug.net (203.109.156.165) 42.776 ms 44.574 ms 23.067 ms 2 203-109-156-201.ihug.net (203.109.156.201) 31.144 ms 42.116 ms 17.028 ms 3 203-109-156-98.ihug.net (203.109.156.98) 46.533 ms 44.108 ms 22.295 ms 4 ip-202-147-46-177.asianetcom.net (202.147.46.177) 35.472 ms 42.702 ms 41.016 ms 5 po4-2.gw1.sjc1.asianetcom.net (202.147.55.198) 185.800 ms 185.232 ms 174.106 ms 6 ge-2-3-1.ar1.SJC2.gblx.net (64.215.184.245) 172.177 ms 176.490 ms 175.187 ms 7 so5-0-0-2488M.ar4.SFO1.gblx.net (67.17.68.54) 187.416 ms 198.932 ms 177.052 ms 8 208.51.243.250 (208.51.243.250) 150.358 ms 151.055 ms 149.982 ms 9 tbr1-p013302.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.11.217) 155.750 ms 150.423 ms 152.885 ms 10 gbr5-p100.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.11.74) 179.092 ms 187.598 ms 190.009 ms 11 gar2-p360.sffca.ip.att.net (12.123.13.149) 231.228 ms 177.895 ms 191.798 ms 12 12.124.35.81 (12.124.35.81) 151.668 ms 157.799 ms 154.464 ms 13 sffca201lr1-3-3.ca.us.ip.att.net (165.87.71.41) 171.183 ms 155.320 ms 168.241 ms 14 ausydn1102cr1-5-1-1.au.ip.att.net (165.87.66.45) 199.814 ms 203.815 ms 187.676 ms MPLS Label=245 CoS=5 TTL=1 S=1 15 ausydn2102cr1-5-1-2.au.ip.att.net (165.87.66.34) 315.990 ms 300.253 ms 313.920 ms MPLS Label=30 CoS=5 TTL=1 S=1 16 prodigy-sthngtn.ct.us.prserv.net (165.87.66.85) 202.485 ms 200.239 ms 185.888 ms 17 32.114.204.14 (32.114.204.14) 368.101 ms 200.251 ms 233.227 ms 18 amr1.wix.net.nz (202.7.1.67) 185.661 ms 182.285 ms 184.703 ms 19 trademe.co.nz (202.21.128.2) 189.955 ms 187.112 ms 199.719 ms -Simon
Folks, APNIC Whois places 165/8 in Australia, and so when one sees ny.us.prserv.net or ct.us.prserv.net reported in a traceroute one should not necessarily jump to the conclusion that those particular routers are in the US. 12.122/15, on the other hand, is reported by ARIN to be in the US, and so it would be safe to assume that sffca.ip.att.net routers are in the US. Cheers, Jon ------------------------------------ Araneo Limited info (at) araneo.net.nz 5th Floor Central House 26 Brandon Street Wellington, New Zealand tel: +64-4-473-3932 fax: +64-4-472-0960 http://www.araneo.net.nz ------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Simon Garner [mailto:sgarner(a)expio.co.nz] Sent: Friday, 4 March 2005 3:42 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] tradme etc On 4/03/2005 3:28 p.m., Matthew Poole wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Simon Lyall wrote:
Somebody might know this fior sure but doesn't AT&T (trademe's upstream) connect to APE? Just I can't see trademe's routes being advertised there.
They only peer with the route servers, I'm told. They don't actually do traffic exchange with anyone.
Traffic to Stuff.co.nz (who are also AT&T) seems to go through APE, though Trade Me doesn't: traceroute to www.stuff.co.nz (202.135.111.130), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 tig-nz-akl-pppoe-2-lo0.ihug.net (203.109.156.165) 18.686 ms 34.734 ms 18.943 ms 2 203-109-156-201.ihug.net (203.109.156.201) 19.886 ms 21.693 ms 30.483 ms 3 203-109-156-98.ihug.net (203.109.156.98) 20.078 ms 32.869 ms 26.030 ms 4 att.ape.net.nz (192.203.154.74) 31.319 ms 44.915 ms 21.142 ms 5 prodigy-nanuet.ny.us.prserv.net (165.87.66.121) 24.726 ms 21.347 ms 19.350 ms 6 165.87.67.82 (165.87.67.82) 43.531 ms 36.359 ms 33.459 ms 7 32.114.204.14 (32.114.204.14) 28.945 ms 57.320 ms 62.977 ms 8 202.135.111.130 (202.135.111.130) 43.634 ms 57.907 ms 34.774 ms traceroute to trademe.co.nz (202.21.128.2), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 tig-nz-akl-pppoe-2-lo0.ihug.net (203.109.156.165) 42.776 ms 44.574 ms 23.067 ms 2 203-109-156-201.ihug.net (203.109.156.201) 31.144 ms 42.116 ms 17.028 ms 3 203-109-156-98.ihug.net (203.109.156.98) 46.533 ms 44.108 ms 22.295 ms 4 ip-202-147-46-177.asianetcom.net (202.147.46.177) 35.472 ms 42.702 ms 41.016 ms 5 po4-2.gw1.sjc1.asianetcom.net (202.147.55.198) 185.800 ms 185.232 ms 174.106 ms 6 ge-2-3-1.ar1.SJC2.gblx.net (64.215.184.245) 172.177 ms 176.490 ms 175.187 ms 7 so5-0-0-2488M.ar4.SFO1.gblx.net (67.17.68.54) 187.416 ms 198.932 ms 177.052 ms 8 208.51.243.250 (208.51.243.250) 150.358 ms 151.055 ms 149.982 ms 9 tbr1-p013302.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.11.217) 155.750 ms 150.423 ms 152.885 ms 10 gbr5-p100.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.11.74) 179.092 ms 187.598 ms 190.009 ms 11 gar2-p360.sffca.ip.att.net (12.123.13.149) 231.228 ms 177.895 ms 191.798 ms 12 12.124.35.81 (12.124.35.81) 151.668 ms 157.799 ms 154.464 ms 13 sffca201lr1-3-3.ca.us.ip.att.net (165.87.71.41) 171.183 ms 155.320 ms 168.241 ms 14 ausydn1102cr1-5-1-1.au.ip.att.net (165.87.66.45) 199.814 ms 203.815 ms 187.676 ms MPLS Label=245 CoS=5 TTL=1 S=1 15 ausydn2102cr1-5-1-2.au.ip.att.net (165.87.66.34) 315.990 ms 300.253 ms 313.920 ms MPLS Label=30 CoS=5 TTL=1 S=1 16 prodigy-sthngtn.ct.us.prserv.net (165.87.66.85) 202.485 ms 200.239 ms 185.888 ms 17 32.114.204.14 (32.114.204.14) 368.101 ms 200.251 ms 233.227 ms 18 amr1.wix.net.nz (202.7.1.67) 185.661 ms 182.285 ms 184.703 ms 19 trademe.co.nz (202.21.128.2) 189.955 ms 187.112 ms 199.719 ms -Simon _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
Matthew Poole wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005, Simon Lyall wrote:
Somebody might know this fior sure but doesn't AT&T (trademe's upstream) connect to APE? Just I can't see trademe's routes being advertised there.
They only peer with the route servers, I'm told. They don't actually do traffic exchange with anyone.
Not quite correct. When I was at Maxnet, they had peering with AT&T directly, and not via the route servers. It would appear to still be there (although this is a traceroute to www.att.net.nz, not trademe.co.nz, which goes via maxnet's WIX connection): traceroute to www.att.net.nz (203.163.98.6), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets 1 fa0-0-0-100.ar02.akl1.maxnet.net.nz (210.55.230.210) 1.266 ms 1.956 ms 0.788 ms 2 fa0-0-1-21.cr01.akl1.maxnet.net.nz (202.89.36.17) 1.676 ms 2.772 ms 1.356 ms 3 fa0-0-0-22.br02.akl1.maxnet.net.nz (202.89.36.2) 1.907 ms 2.284 ms 1.461 ms 4 att.ape.net.nz (192.203.154.74) 4.906 ms 3.726 ms 5.580 ms 5 nzlapak1.nz.ip.att.net (152.158.255.237) 3.629 ms 3.811 ms 3.078 ms AT&T did, however, require people to sign a contract as dictated by their US Legal department, which included penalties for non-performance. As I no longer have access to an AT&T peered APE facing router, I can't see if AT&T are announcing Trademe's networks to their peers, however I would be surprised if they weren't. IIRC, other people also peered with AT&T at APE. aj.
Simon Lyall
Somebody might know this fior sure but doesn't AT&T (trademe's upstream) connect to APE? Just I can't see trademe's routes being advertised there.
I wondered about this. Traceroutes from my home TelstraClear cable modem to at least two other AT&T-connected sites (Intergen, OneSquared) take what appears to be an Auckland-peered path; the only AT&T connected site I've seen so far taking a US path is Trademe. There are common routers at the AT&T end of the path. I don't know the details of arrangements between AT&T and any of these organisations, but assuming that they are fairly similar, I'd be suspecting out-of-date route filters at one or end or the other of the AT&T-TelstraClear bilateral peer. -- don
Simon Lyall wrote:
Interestign wee article:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10113474
Somebody might know this fior sure but doesn't AT&T (trademe's upstream) connect to APE? Just I can't see trademe's routes being advertised there.
It's probably worth clarifying this a little. The term "connect to the APE" gets used in a number of ways which result in confusion. 1) There are a number of entities who are connected to the APE switches who then use the switch fabric to set up bilateral peering and other arrangements with other entities. 2) There are a number of entities who are connected to the APE switches who then use the switch fabric to set up peering sessions with the APE Route Servers. This provides a multilateral peering setup. You can see who is in category 2) by looking at the APE looking glass at http://ape.nzix.net/cgi-bin/mrlg-ape.cgi Sites that are listed with the word 'never' in the Up/Down column have not peered with the route server during the lifetime of this particular BGP process. These are generally people who have asked for peering sessions with the route server in the past but who have never formally asked to have their session terminated. 3) There are a number of entities who do both the above. AT&T are in category 1) so their routes will not be visible in the route server tables.
participants (7)
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Alastair Johnson -
Andy Linton -
Don Stokes -
Jonathan Brewer -
Matthew Poole -
Simon Garner -
Simon Lyall