Hello Dave. Somehow your details were in my address book, which goes back over 2 years. Please contact me directly if you wish to discuss this further. Cheers for now. Michael Hallager

...

Anyone else received any spam today from a local, un-named company? I'm trying to track down where he got my email address from... And yes, he is

a

...

member of this list.

Yep, but spam from an un-named company is a little pointless isn't it ?

Presumably he's been accumulating addresses from the NZNOG list as he identified me as someone involved in the local computer/internet industry although I've only posted here once or twice that I recall.

Dave

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

-- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading online supplier of high quality new and used networking equipment. Phone: (09) 839-1000 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: (09) 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freefax) Mobile: 029 638-7883 (SMS, MMS and PXT supported)

Michael Hallager wrote:

As for Neil, [snip] I think that he is just attention seeking.

Now that's childish. I didn't name you or your company. You chose to do that on the list - presumably because your 'handpicked list' is most or all members of the list and you knew you'd be identified anyway. You sent unsolicited commercial email to members of a list populated predominantly by NZ based operational ISP staff. I wasn't attention seeking before, but I am now! *** EVERYONE, MICHAEL HALLAGER IS SENDING UCE TO PEOPLE ON THIS LIST *** Now, if you don't get the half tongue in cheek sarcasm in this post, then a) I'm not surprised and b) I don't care. I'll read your replies, but only for humour value, and only if I remember to check my spam folder where email from you will now end up. Cheers - and good luck with the Spam - Neil G

You sent unsolicited commercial email to members of a list populated predominantly by NZ based operational ISP staff.

Makes sence really.. being that's probably his target customer base..

On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 19:17 +1300, Michael Hallager wrote:

Hello all.

Hello Michael.

Neil is refering to a mailout from my company.

I wondered how long it was going to take. In the interests of not adding to the noise, I was going to just let it go, but the following annoyed me...

I handpicked a few people from my address book and sent them an invitation to join my company's mailing list. Nothing more, nothing less.

The headers implied the email was generated via a php script. This does not exactly feel "hand picked" to me. If you are telling the truth, I apologise, but I object to being spammed by someone on this list who should know better, and I object more stongly to that person then claiming that it was "personalised email".

Well some might class it as an unsolicited email, it is no more unsolicited then a lot of other legitimate email that businesses send to each other day to day.

Sure. If others are doing it, it must be ok, right? Unsolicited is unsolicited. I would not even bother to argue this if I were you.

It is nothing like spam and should not be considered as such.

If it looks like spam, and acts like spam...

I regret if anybody on the list, who happens to have been included, is offended. I urge them to contact me directly asap and I will ensure that I don't bother them again.

Include me in that list please.

As for Neil, I have already discussed this with him, and I have promised him that he will not be bothered again, so therefore by his post, I think that he is just attention seeking.

Alternatively, consider the fact that he might wish to expose someone as a spammer so that others do not deal with them, and thus fund their dubious business practises. Michael, please rethink your actions before you try to defend them. The world has enough money hungry "business people" prepared to sacrifice any principles if they think it might make them a quick buck. Don't become another one of them. Regards, Greig McGill

Michael Hallager wrote:

This is an easier way of managing my opt in / opt out / no reply data to make sure that accidents don't happen...

Well, if people opted in to be on your mailing list, there should be no problem. Did they? -- Juha

Michael Hallager wrote:

This was an invitation sent to some people who were in my address book. Only those who opt in, get added to the mailing list, which is about 1-3 messages per month. Those who reply 'no' or do not reply are not added and are not intentionally contacted again about that.

Storm in a teacup.

Not really. Sounds like a screw up on your part. -- Juha

On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 19:49, Michael Hallager wrote:

This was an invitation sent to some people who were in my address book.

Can you explain how I got into your address book? I very occasionally post to NZNOG and I do not believe that I have ever had personal dealing with you or your company. If you knew me you would know that I do not buy (or influence the purchase of) network equipment. Did you perhaps add the addresses of people who have posted to NZNOG over the last year to your address book before performing this little exercise? If your intention was really to start your own mailing list then a one or two line post to the list would have been a lot less offencive (at least to me) than spamming everyone on the list individually *and* then denying that it was spam. One word of advice: if you are going to break the rules at least be up front about it from the start, trying to weasel out make you look like an unprincipled twit. Russell.

I have never had any business or personal dealings with Richard or Helix or anyone associated with either (That I can recall). I can only assume that his (Against list rules) jibe is reflective of his own level of self esteem and attitude towards others, clearly a good demonstration of his maturity. Michael Hallager networkStuff ltd.

Everyones talking like it's a revelation that Michael Hallager is an asshat.

Indeed it is not, everyone that I have ever spoken about to him has instantaneously said "ASSHAT"

Aswell as others outside the ISP industry have also commented on his asshatery and relayed a few bad mouthings of his about the ISP industry.

So why is he still here?

-Richard

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

-- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading online supplier of high quality new and used networking equipment. Phone: (09) 839-1000 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: (09) 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freefax) Mobile: 029 638-7883 (SMS, MMS and PXT supported)

You are right. I did apologise in my previous post, but again I am sorry to anyone who is offended. Could you please contact me off list and I will make sure that you are added to my no-contact list. Michael Hallager networkStuff ltd

...

I can only assume that his (Against list rules) jibe is reflective of his own level of self esteem and attitude towards others, clearly a good demonstration of his maturity.

Wouldn't it be good demonstration of your maturity to apologise for the apparent spamming?

-- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading online supplier of high quality new and used networking equipment. Phone: (09) 839-1000 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: (09) 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freefax) Mobile: 029 638-7883 (SMS, MMS and PXT supported)

Lets get this right. NOONE was put on any "mailing list" as a result of this SMALL mailout unless they asked. simple. I have received more 'spam' from people playing SB's at the NZNOG website by entering my email address then anything else today and I have also received other stupid emails, some of which are posted to thsi list.

You get people's permission first before you put them on a mailing list and don't ask for opt-outs.

People that have emailed me directly have been served. Those who wish to use this as an opportunity to get back at some perceived slight (In one case, because I bought from a competitor of theirs whom they hated), or other political issue, really need to get a life. // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading online supplier of high quality new and used networking equipment. Phone: (09) 839-1000 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: (09) 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freefax) Mobile: 029 638-7883 (SMS, MMS and PXT supported)

Lets get this right. NOONE was put on any "mailing list" as a result of

I don't agree with the mailout but after the big fuss that's going on here it was a funny read. This was a laugh, and what I was thinking at the time of reading (drunken state)... Signature #1 Michael Hallager networkStuff ltd. Signature #2 Michael Hallager Signature #3 MIchael Hallager www.networkstuff.co.nz Signature #4 Michael Hallager networkStuff ltd It's as if the signature was typed each time to advertise his company when we all know who he works for. I liked the Michael (MI) Over & out. Barry -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] Sent: Sunday, 10 October 2004 8:26 p.m. To: michael(a)networkstuff.co.nz Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Spam from local sources? Michael Hallager wrote: this

SMALL mailout unless they asked. simple.

So you asked for permission from recipients to be put on the mailing list for your "SMALL mailout"? That's the crux of the issue. -- Juha _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

I put my hand up as a recipient of his spam also. I replied to him offlist and complained, and he was also defensive, and relatively unrepentant. Michael whether YOU see it or not, you've managed to offend basically everyone you emailed. The only reason I havnt blacklisted you from my MTA is that i'm too damn considerate of the *other* people who also use my MTA. But yeah, my suggestion to you would be to apologise to all and sundry, and then keep a low profile on the NZNOG for a year or so. UCE *ISNT* tolerable, nomatter what your excuse, nomatter where you collected your email targets from, and nomatter how 'discrete' your target. Given that you deliberately targetted active users of the NZ Network Operators Group (an *operational discussion* list, not a *I'm interested in your product* list) you're basically in breach of almost every ISP T&C i can name. Speaking of which; any representatives of Michael's upstream present on the list? If so you can colour this as an official complaint about the UCE from Michael Hallager as he obviously doesn't see the reason that NZNOG have such a low opinion of him. (Or if they didn't - they probably do now.) Mark. (speaking for myself, as usual) On Sun, 10 Oct 2004, Juha Saarinen wrote:

Michael Hallager wrote:

...

I can only assume that his (Against list rules) jibe is reflective of his own level of self esteem and attitude towards others, clearly a good demonstration of his maturity.

Wouldn't it be good demonstration of your maturity to apologise for the apparent spamming?

-- Juha

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

Michael Hallager wrote:

I can only assume that his (Against list rules) jibe is reflective of his own level of self esteem and attitude towards others, clearly a good demonstration of his maturity.

Against list rules? The NZNOG is for Network Operators. Do you operate a network in New Zealand? (2 desktops, a printer, and a DSL modem doesn't count) You try to sell stuff to said network operators and, in a now abundantly clear fashion, are sending unsolicited email to *us* -Richard Last email on the matter.

Michael Hallager writes:

Hello all.

Neil is refering to a mailout from my company.

I handpicked a few people from my address book and sent them an invitation to join my company's mailing list. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well some might class it as an unsolicited email, it is no more unsolicited then a lot of other legitimate email that businesses send to each other day to day.

It is nothing like spam and should not be considered as such.

I'm not commenting on this particular issue as I haven't seen the email - but in general: spam is exactly Unsolicited Bulk/Commercial Email. cheers, Jamie -- James Riden / j.riden(a)massey.ac.nz / Systems Security Engineer Information Technology Services, Massey University, NZ. GPG public key available at: http://www.massey.ac.nz/~jriden/