p.s. I have NO affiliation with Maxnet I just use an email address from them.

What would that achieve? It won't solve the problem that John Russell brought up. There is NO need to set up any other peering exchanges.

You are confusing the issue. Get someone at the maxnet nog to explain it to you

HI Tikiri

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Tikiri Wicks wrote:

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I realize that the APE and the WIX already exist but what I'm talking about is setting up a second peering point with different game rules. Namely Give as much as you take What would that achieve? It won't solve the problem that John Russell brought up. There is NO need to set up any other peering exchanges.

You are confusing the issue. Get someone at the maxnet nog to explain it to you

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What you guys don't seem to understand is that if all the smaller ISP's Maxnet, IHUG, Slingshot, etc.... were all combined into one (big lump)

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is probably way more end consumers than what Telstra has. And probably enough to get Telecom thinking as well

regards lin

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Wicks" To: "'Tikiri Wicks'" Cc: "'nznog'" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:14 AM Subject: RE: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution

I hate to mention the obvious Tikiri, but that already exsists, they are called APE and WIX.

-----Original Message----- From: Tikiri Wicks [mailto:tcwicks(a)maxnet.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 26 November 2003 11:13 a.m. To: Andy Linton; nznog Subject: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution

Just a thought here

Since most ISP's in NZ seem to be in agreement over this. What if instead of just blowing off steam:

Everyone joins hands and sets up two (or more) peering exchanges.

One in

...

Auckland and one in Wellington. Then everyone simply drops all peering with Telstra (and / or Telecom if and where relevant) and interconnect

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the two (or more) exchange points. The idea is that no one would pay for anything except for the cost of connectiong yourselves to the exchange points. Whether this be via tangent / united network / citylink / some big SDH radio link / microwave / a whole bunch of people running to the exchanges with buckets fileld with packets :)

Peering would be voluntary for anyone and on the condition that each provides the same amount of bandwidth under the same conditions from

...

network to the exchange as they do from teh exchange to their network.

That should keep players like Telecom and Telstra from trying to manipulate the market.

If Telstra want to peer they would be forced to do so at the same conditions that apply to everyone else

Also the costs of interconnectivity between the exchange points could be borne by the members based on some simple equation such as for example a ratio based on the amount of bandwidth with which they connect to the exchanges. Fill in the blanks here ________

Finally I would think that this would be a great opportunity for operators like tangent who have fibre running between the two (or more) hypothetical exchanges.

Cheers

Tikiri

----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Linton" To: "nznog" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:53 AM Subject: [nznog] Peering at the APE and WIX - was Re: Irked with TelstraClear

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I posted some notes yesterday about peering with the APE and WIX route servers and gave a link for application forms which wasn't as useful as it might have been. For reference the forms are at:

http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=ape.tmpl http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=wix.tmpl

Joe Abley posted some ideas on peering - one obvious one that he hasn't gone the whole distance with is that if many of the small/medium

I'm not trying to look at it from a technical point. What I mean is purely from a business point of view. In that case what about if all the small ISP's as a group peer with one layer 3 switch at the APE and another one at the WIX. This way Telstra would have to peer with everyone or not peer with anyone. New Zealand Internet consumers have great interest in other Internet related services and web sites in New Zealand. For example the earlier reference to nzdating.co.nz A large portion of these New Zealand based ineternet services and websites are physically hosted by ISP's other than Telstra and Telecom. Not to mention the end consumers themselves. If all the non Telco ISP's were to be lumped into one pile that would be a lot of such internet services and web sites. If all of these were as a group with rules that state peer with the all or do not peer at all. Essentially a gigabit Layer 3 switch at the NEW exchange. What this means is that parties would not peer with individual small ISP's rather they would peer with the entire group. In this scenario what would happen ? A Telstra consumer tries to access www.nzdating.co.nz what happens ? it is not accessible for them. The next day (or same day) he/she whines to his/her friends about nzdating not beign there. But his/her friend is on a dialup to ICONZ / Slingshot / _____ and they could access the site with no hassles. Instant conclusion is something is wrong with Telstra. The Telstra consumer would most probably switch to his friends connection. The key is to achieve critical mass. You guys can only achieve this critical mass as a group. Not as individual companies as you are too small alone to make any difference. Only as a group. Cheers Tikiri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lin Nah" To: "Tikiri Wicks" Cc: "Tony Wicks" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution that through their players

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work together they will be in a better position to negotiate peering with the two large telcos.

Consider the stories here:

http://www.tomsdomain.com/aesop/id17.htm

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