Just in case, I'm away next week
Hello All,
Not that I'm expecting any problems next week, but just
in case someone emails me directly, rather than using the
official channels :
I'm away next week (17 Jan till 21 Jan), so please use the
official email addresses to get hold of someone that can
help you.
They are :
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
soa(a)waikato.ac.nz
Regards,
Geoff Thompson.
----------------------------------
Geoff Thompson
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address? -cw --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address?
You're not. It just goes with the general dumbing-down of the Internet, where NSI now sells web addresses, rather than domain names. Sigh. Andrew P. Gardner Never suggest to your Mother to shop on-line for a pearl necklace. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Andy Gardner wrote:
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address? It just goes with the general dumbing-down of the Internet, where NSI now sells web addresses, rather than domain names.
RFC 2142 -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz System/Network Admin | T&C Enforcement | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz The Internet Group, Auck. | Asst Doorman | Web: Currently Offline --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address? It just goes with the general dumbing-down of the Internet, where NSI now sells web addresses, rather than domain names. RFC 2142
Yeah, that's the Simon I know, and love. Man of few words, or whatever. James Tyson -- Head Engineering Toolsmith - The Internet Group. >---------- I know stuff ----------< --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Simon Lyall wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Andy Gardner wrote:
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address? It just goes with the general dumbing-down of the Internet, where NSI now sells web addresses, rather than domain names.
RFC 2142
Eyeballs roll back into my head.... I never knew a simple little
note could create such discussion, let alone someone dragging an
RFC about recommended business email addresses out to inform
us all.
I'm sure that there have been some pretty dubious RFC's written
in the past by people seeking fame. I definately doesn't mean
that the world has to adopt them all.
But then we'll end up in a discussion about the importance
of standards, and someone will joke about Microsoft standards,
and then the discussion will turn into......
Yeah, seen it all before. Whatever.
Did I bother sending this??? Geesh.
----------------------------------
Geoff Thompson
Geoff Thompson wrote:
Simon Lyall wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Andy Gardner wrote:
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address? It just goes with the general dumbing-down of the Internet, where NSI now sells web addresses, rather than domain names.
RFC 2142
I'm sure that there have been some pretty dubious RFC's written in the past by people seeking fame. I definately doesn't mean that the world has to adopt them all.
I'd hardly call Dave Crocker and Paul Vixie 'dubious RFC authors seeking fame'.
But then we'll end up in a discussion about the importance of standards, and someone will joke about Microsoft standards, and then the discussion will turn into......
Just try explaining the address '4service(a)domainz.net.nz' over the phone to any random clueless person, just once. Suffer through numerous corrections of any combination of 'for', '4', 'service', 'domains', 'domain', 'domains', 'domainz', '.net', '.co' and so on. Wait patiently through the inevitable half hour diversion into whether or not you can have a number in an email address. Fume quietly while clueless person says (in tones of deep distrust), "Well, *I'VE* never seen that before ... are you _sure_?". Notice how the combination of 31337 w4r3z d00d mailbox name and saccarine pun on 'domains' and 'NZ' makes your job just that little bit harder than it really needs to be. Curse Domainz. Contemplate outsourcing all of your DNS services to some third party, just so you don't have to deal with this sort of crap.
Did I bother sending this??? Geesh.
Heh, I can't believe I bothered replying to it. Slow day at the office. Regards, Rob. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Rob,
Given the personal experiences that you seem to have had with the use of the
"4service(a)domainz.net.nz" email address, I can understand how that might
frustrate you.
I'm sorry if our choice of the user name field in the domainz email address
gives rise to specific issues with you and your customer base.
FWIW, our experience is that the choice of our email address has not been
raised as a major barrier before, either by Name Holders or through the ISP
Channel.
Emotions aside, maybe I'm missing something here.
Do I understand it that RFC 2142 is being cited as the correct "convention"
for user names for email addresses?
Am I also to conclude that there is an issue with Domainz choice of the
email address "4service(a)...", and that we might be acting in contravention
to that RFC?
Let us look at RFC 2142, and pick out just one technical aspect -- section 7
the DNS. Let me be even bolder and quote...
............................................................................
..........................
. DOMAIN NAME SERVICE ADMINISTRATION MAILBOX
In DNS (see [RFC1033], [RFC1034] and [RFC1035]), the Start Of
Authority record (SOA RR) has a field for specifying the mailbox name
of the zone's administrator.
This field must be a simple word without metacharacters (such as "%"
or "!" or "::"), and a mail alias should be used on the relevant mail
exchanger hosts to direct zone administration mail to the appropriate
mailbox.
For simplicity and regularity, it is strongly recommended that the
well known mailbox name HOSTMASTER always be used
Simon Lyall wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Andy Gardner wrote:
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address? It just goes with the general dumbing-down of the Internet, where NSI
now
sells web addresses, rather than domain names.
RFC 2142
I'm sure that there have been some pretty dubious RFC's written in the past by people seeking fame. I definately doesn't mean that the world has to adopt them all.
I'd hardly call Dave Crocker and Paul Vixie 'dubious RFC authors seeking fame'.
But then we'll end up in a discussion about the importance of standards, and someone will joke about Microsoft standards, and then the discussion will turn into......
Just try explaining the address '4service(a)domainz.net.nz' over the phone to any random clueless person, just once. Suffer through numerous corrections of any combination of 'for', '4', 'service', 'domains', 'domain', 'domains', 'domainz', '.net', '.co' and so on. Wait patiently through the inevitable half hour diversion into whether or not you can have a number in an email address. Fume quietly while clueless person says (in tones of deep distrust), "Well, *I'VE* never seen that before ... are you _sure_?". Notice how the combination of 31337 w4r3z d00d mailbox name and saccarine pun on 'domains' and 'NZ' makes your job just that little bit harder than it really needs to be. Curse Domainz. Contemplate outsourcing all of your DNS services to some third party, just so you don't have to deal with this sort of crap.
Did I bother sending this??? Geesh.
Heh, I can't believe I bothered replying to it. Slow day at the office. Regards, Rob. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 12:03:35AM +1300, Patrick O' Brien wrote:
Do I understand it that RFC 2142 is being cited as the correct "convention" for user names for email addresses?
RFC2142 is a Standards Track document. It specifies a number of mailbox names that must exist in any organisation. It says nothing about any other mailbox names.
Am I also to conclude that there is an issue with Domainz choice of the email address "4service(a)...", and that we might be acting in contravention to that RFC?
No. There would be an issue with RFC2142 support if the mailbox names specified in that document were not supported.
Let us look at RFC 2142, and pick out just one technical aspect -- section 7 the DNS. Let me be even bolder and quote...
Section 7 concerns contact addresses embedded within DNS SOA records. It has nothing to do with registry technical contact addresses.
So how many technical administrators in the .nz space this HOSTMASTER(a)... convention?
The use of "hostmaster" is a recommendation, not a requierement. And again, it says nothing about technical contact addresses in the register.
Personally, I'd conclude that if there is an RFC issue with the Domainz email address, then that issue is much, much wider. Is it really that big an issue?
Well, you can choose to be compliant with standards, or you can choose not to. I would have hoped that Domainz might try to set an example. In fact, it would probably have taken far less time to verify whether the RFC2142 aliases were accepted by Domainz's mail server (and to add them if necessary) than to formulate such an elaborate reply.
Rob, while I've got you, maybe you can do spare a thought for me too -- ask how I might feel when confronted with terms such as "l33t w4r3z d00dz"
While there is a corporate/government culture within NZ which finds the embedding of "nz" into the end of names natty, cute and professional, there is another, much wider, internet culture that associates similar spellings with software piracy, denial of service attacks and pornography. I would hope it was ignorance of the latter that led Domainz to choose its current branding, not an informed marketing decision :)
A simple explanation would be welcomed, and may personally come in handy one day, happy to take it off-line :-)
http://www.fwi.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/l/Lamer-speak.html Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Joe,
Section 7 concerns contact addresses embedded within DNS SOA records... The use of "hostmaster" is a recommendation, not a requierement...
Agreed. None the less, a number of domains do use that SOA address as their technical contact address, and the use of HOSTMASTER as there SOA address does not dominate.
Well, you can choose to be compliant with standards, or you can choose not to... probably have taken far less time to verify whether the RFC2142 aliases were accepted by Domainz's mail server.
I shun the notion that we are somehow acting in contravention of some "alias" standard -- thus there is no need for Domainz to verify anything. I am confident that our service provider delivers any mail sent to any of these "standard" recommended aliases to Domainz, and equally confident that it finds its way into an individual's in-tray. If I can stray to the less serious for a moment Joe....software piracy, denial of service attacks and pornography.
Thanks for the link, I see I am in real need of education, life really has passed me by...
I would hope it was ignorance of the latter that led Domainz to choose its current branding..
Well, perhaps all of New Zealand should give up now Joe -- Certainly the issue that you flag rally damns us all forever, perhaps it was an ISO3166 conspiracy when they handed out Country codes.? Its a terrible thought to ponder, as I sit here early Saturday, that there is a whole sub-culture that views every single domain name ending in .nz as a pornographic site. Perhaps we should advise the "Net Nanny's" of the world to put an automatic block on all domain names ending in .nz to protect children? Maybe that is why the US Presidential advisory team was so keen for us to be involved as part of their Y2K coordination program -- .nz was polluted with pirates, waiting to bring down the US, masquerading under a .nz domain? What hope is there for the NZ Herald, and what about NZ L-57, we might as well give back the cup right now :) Cheers, Patrick --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
If I can stray to the less serious for a moment Joe....software piracy, denial of service attacks and pornography.
I think you lose the plot here at this point Patrick. The simple fact is, whenever we sent one of our clients to the domainz site to allow them to hunt for a suitable domain, we _always_ have to say "that's domainz with a "z" at the end, not an "s". Everytime without fail. One of the important factors in choosing a domain name (or an email address) is that it can't be easily confused with something that is more obvious when you speak the domain name. Thus both "domainz" is a stupid choice for an important web site, and "4service" is a stupid choice for an important email contact address as _b0th_ 0f them need explaining to the un-initiated. If you don't spell it out, they try to go to domains.net.nz and send email for forservice(a)domains.net.nz If you total up the amount of extra help desk time taken up because of the above, you will probably be surprised. I'd prefer it if you kept to KISS principals. How about adding A and MX records to the domains.net.nz zone so those poor unfortunates than can spell correctly get taken to the D0mainz site anyway? Up here for thinking down there for... Andrew P. Gardner Never suggest to your Mother to shop on-line for a pearl necklace. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Andy,
I think you lose the plot here at this point Patrick.
Just a little tongue-in-cheek for a change this Sunny Wellington weekend; I'll get back to me-the-formal-person if you prefer.
...Everytime without fail.
It would have been good to have received feedback like this formally earlier if it is giving yourself and your customers grief. Any reason why it was not forthcoming?
How about adding A and MX records to the domains.net.nz zone so those poor unfortunates than can spell correctly get taken to the D0mainz site anyway?
Yes, we hold the domains.net.nz (with an 's"), and it is a relatively simple task to forward all mail from there to the correct address. Interestingly we used to do that some whilst back, but the level of email coming in from the that domain was not significant -- so we took away the mail box. We will put it back in and monitor, thanks for the suggestion, always happy to try out good suggestions..
Thus both "domainz" is a stupid choice...
Andy, pleased to receive your opinion, but I guess we need to agree to differ. When we talk to Registrars in the States, they have no problem spelling Domainz with a "Zee" ;-) I suppose I could make the same argument about "twocows.com", or was it "2cows.com". However, they do not seem that bothered over their choice, and I never herd of their customers complaining in droves ;-) Maybe, in the not too distant future, we will all be able to look back in hindsight on "CDnow.com" and say -- wasn't that a stupid choice given that there was "MP3now.com". Really, we should all blame the breakdown in rules of nomenclature on "Toys-R-Us", or was it "Bedz-R-US"., Look at what's happened since... http://www.babiesrus.com/ -- One for Joe (Congrats) http://ripsrus.retrogames.com/ -- retro!! http://www.stumps.org/mission.html -- this one's definitely not cricket http://www.netwayglobal.com/ -- this one' not what you'd imagine http://www.slutsrus.nu/ -- this one is exactly what you'd imagine http://www.reptilesrus.com/ -- someone had already registered Brontosau-R-us http://www.shrooms-r-us.com/ -- true name bastardisation if you ask me http://www.geeksrus.com/ -- catering for all tastes http://indigo.ie/~clupo/ -- and one closer to my home http://www.domainsrus.com -- and closer to my business home and wait for it, you'd never had guessed, http://www.domainzrus.com -- what a great name :) Have a wonderful weekend, See you, Patrick -----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Andy Gardner Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 9:17 AM To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Just in case, I'm away next week
If I can stray to the less serious for a moment Joe....software piracy, denial of service attacks and pornography.
I think you lose the plot here at this point Patrick. The simple fact is, whenever we sent one of our clients to the domainz site to allow them to hunt for a suitable domain, we _always_ have to say "that's domainz with a "z" at the end, not an "s". Everytime without fail. One of the important factors in choosing a domain name (or an email address) is that it can't be easily confused with something that is more obvious when you speak the domain name. Thus both "domainz" is a stupid choice for an important web site, and "4service" is a stupid choice for an important email contact address as _b0th_ 0f them need explaining to the un-initiated. If you don't spell it out, they try to go to domains.net.nz and send email for forservice(a)domains.net.nz If you total up the amount of extra help desk time taken up because of the above, you will probably be surprised. I'd prefer it if you kept to KISS principals. How about adding A and MX records to the domains.net.nz zone so those poor unfortunates than can spell correctly get taken to the D0mainz site anyway? Up here for thinking down there for... Andrew P. Gardner Never suggest to your Mother to shop on-line for a pearl necklace. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:52:53AM +1300, Patrick O' Brien wrote:
Section 7 concerns contact addresses embedded within DNS SOA records... The use of "hostmaster" is a recommendation, not a requierement...
Agreed.
None the less, a number of domains do use that SOA address as their technical contact address, and the use of HOSTMASTER as there SOA address does not dominate.
And we've agreed that that's not relevant. But thank you for mentioning it again.
Well, you can choose to be compliant with standards, or you can choose not to... probably have taken far less time to verify whether the RFC2142 aliases were accepted by Domainz's mail server.
I shun the notion that we are somehow acting in contravention of some "alias" standard -- thus there is no need for Domainz to verify anything.
Guess we'll just add that to the list of standard requirements that Domainz feels they are too good for. Frankly I'm surprised that you are happy with the remarkable inflexibility of UDP to run DNS over, and haven't invented some superior scheme to meet your own particular requirements.
I am confident that our service provider delivers any mail sent to any of these "standard" recommended aliases to Domainz, and equally confident that it finds its way into an individual's in-tray.
Again, it was the aliases _required_ by RFC2142 I was talking about, not those _recommended_ by RFC2142.
If I can stray to the less serious for a moment Joe....software piracy, denial of service attacks and pornography.
Thanks for the link, I see I am in real need of education, life really has passed me by...
If you want to keep people in any particular segment of life happy, it can sometimes pay to learn a little about their associated culture. On the other hand, if you don't care about keeping your customers happy, you can ignore their advice and laugh at their petty requests. Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Joe,
Guess we'll just add that to the list of standard requirements that Domainz feels they are too good for
Where is this list published?
I'm surprised that you are happy with the remarkable inflexibility of UDP to ...
What is it that the "4service" address or the "domainz.net.nz" domain has to do with UDP?
Again, it was the aliases _required_ by RFC2142 I was talking about..
Why don't you give me the list of those aliases and send mail to them. Let me know where Domainz is falling short on these RFC standards please.
If you want to keep people in any particular segment of life happy, it can sometimes pay to learn a little about their associated culture.
No problems there Joe, you and I are as one.
On the other hand, if you don't care about keeping your customers happy, you can ignore their advice and laugh at their petty requests.
Well, I do care, and I took the trouble to find out more, and I am committed to improve if there are real issues flagged that we can improve upon -- and I am not laughing at requests. My regards, Patrick -----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley(a)patho.gen.nz] Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 11:21 AM To: Patrick O' Brien Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Just in case, I'm away next week On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 08:52:53AM +1300, Patrick O' Brien wrote:
Section 7 concerns contact addresses embedded within DNS SOA records... The use of "hostmaster" is a recommendation, not a requierement...
Agreed.
None the less, a number of domains do use that SOA address as their technical contact address, and the use of HOSTMASTER as there SOA address does not dominate.
And we've agreed that that's not relevant. But thank you for mentioning it again.
Well, you can choose to be compliant with standards, or you can choose not to... probably have taken far less time to verify whether the RFC2142 aliases were accepted by Domainz's mail server.
I shun the notion that we are somehow acting in contravention of some "alias" standard -- thus there is no need for Domainz to verify anything.
I am confident that our service provider delivers any mail sent to any of these "standard" recommended aliases to Domainz, and equally confident
Guess we'll just add that to the list of standard requirements that Domainz feels they are too good for. Frankly I'm surprised that you are happy with the remarkable inflexibility of UDP to run DNS over, and haven't invented some superior scheme to meet your own particular requirements. that
it finds its way into an individual's in-tray.
Again, it was the aliases _required_ by RFC2142 I was talking about, not those _recommended_ by RFC2142.
If I can stray to the less serious for a moment Joe....software piracy, denial of service attacks and pornography.
Thanks for the link, I see I am in real need of education, life really has passed me by...
If you want to keep people in any particular segment of life happy, it can sometimes pay to learn a little about their associated culture. On the other hand, if you don't care about keeping your customers happy, you can ignore their advice and laugh at their petty requests. Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 12:45:32PM +1300, Patrick O' Brien wrote:
Guess we'll just add that to the list of standard requirements that Domainz feels they are too good for
Where is this list published?
On the numerous mailing lists where requirements from operators have been put to Domainz, and been summarily ignored. Check the archives, Patrick, if you don't remember.
I'm surprised that you are happy with the remarkable inflexibility of UDP to ...
What is it that the "4service" address or the "domainz.net.nz" domain has to do with UDP?
Your expertise at quoting fragments out of context in order to make yourself look silly speaks for itself.
Again, it was the aliases _required_ by RFC2142 I was talking about..
Why don't you give me the list of those aliases and send mail to them. Let me know where Domainz is falling short on these RFC standards please.
I _have_ sent mail to them. They don't bounce. However, I have no idea where they go. If you were interested in supporting them, you'd support them and publicise the fact. You're clearly not interested in doing this. I don't see that any additional debate is going to add anything here.
On the other hand, if you don't care about keeping your customers happy, you can ignore their advice and laugh at their petty requests.
Well, I do care, and I took the trouble to find out more, and I am committed to improve if there are real issues flagged that we can improve upon -- and I am not laughing at requests.
Excellent. I expect therefore that we will shortly see deployment of a production, authoritative whois server which responds to RIPE-181 queries live any day then, as well as service-level agreements with secondary nameserver operators, a registry-registrar interface that meets the requirements of registrars, and a registry that doesn't close for business two days out of every seven? Or does the fact that none of these have been actioned in the previous months and years speak more loudly about your committments than simple throw-away comments in nznog? Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
ENOUGH Already !!!!!!!! This thread has gone on far too long to be of any use apart from creating noise. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Joe Abley Sent: Saturday, 15 January 2000 13:26 To: Patrick O' Brien Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Just in case, I'm away next week On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 12:45:32PM +1300, Patrick O' Brien wrote:
Guess we'll just add that to the list of standard requirements that Domainz feels they are too good for
Where is this list published?
On the numerous mailing lists where requirements from operators have been put to Domainz, and been summarily ignored. Check the archives, Patrick, if you don't remember.
I'm surprised that you are happy with the remarkable inflexibility of UDP to ...
What is it that the "4service" address or the "domainz.net.nz" domain has to do with UDP?
Your expertise at quoting fragments out of context in order to make yourself look silly speaks for itself.
Again, it was the aliases _required_ by RFC2142 I was talking about..
Why don't you give me the list of those aliases and send mail to them. Let me know where Domainz is falling short on these RFC standards please.
I _have_ sent mail to them. They don't bounce. However, I have no idea where they go. If you were interested in supporting them, you'd support them and publicise the fact. You're clearly not interested in doing this. I don't see that any additional debate is going to add anything here.
On the other hand, if you don't care about keeping your customers happy, you can ignore their advice and laugh at their petty requests.
Well, I do care, and I took the trouble to find out more, and I am committed to improve if there are real issues flagged that we can improve upon -- and I am not laughing at requests.
Excellent. I expect therefore that we will shortly see deployment of a production, authoritative whois server which responds to RIPE-181 queries live any day then, as well as service-level agreements with secondary nameserver operators, a registry-registrar interface that meets the requirements of registrars, and a registry that doesn't close for business two days out of every seven? Or does the fact that none of these have been actioned in the previous months and years speak more loudly about your committments than simple throw-away comments in nznog? Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Evening all On Sat, 15 Jan 2000, Patrick O' Brien wrote:
FWIW, our experience is that the choice of our email address has not been raised as a major barrier before, either by Name Holders or through the ISP Channel.
I'd be interested to know how many members of nznog saw the request to join NewZ-Flash(a)domainz.net.nz, thought "bah, gratuitous use of mid-word capitalisation, more marketing puff from Domainz", and chose not to join. I know I did, and I'm grateful to Joe for filtering the content of NewZ-Flash(a)domainz.net.nz and passing the interesting bits onto nznog. Had the list been named domainz-annouce(a)domainz.net.nz, or domainz-ops(a)domainz.net.nz, I'd almost certainly have joined the new mailing list. Now I'm not saying that's rational, you shouldn't judge a book by it's colour, and all that, but that's the thought process I went through. The rest of the email is a digression on the (in)accuracy of the numbers offered by Patrick. Please ignore if you've got anything better to do. <stuff deleted for brevity>
In the .nz Register, we've got just under 3,200 discrete "Technical contact" addresses. Here's a list of the top 25 Technical Contact "user names" (I mean the fields before the @..),
USER COUNT --------- --------- soa 126 HostMaster 95 webmaster 66 support 64 admin 54 dns 49 info 39 postmaster 30 Chris 23 paul 20 tech 19 steve 18 john 18 andrew 17 noc 15 domain 15 craig 13 richard 12 mike 11 james 11 daniel 11 registry 10 nic 10 simon 10 domains 10
Let's see if my long forgotten stats 101 is up to this: 3200 tech contact email addresses 29966 total .nz domains, according to Mark Davies. Only 776 domains are covered by the top 25 listed above, so 29190 domains are shared out amongst another 3175 tech contact email addresses. By my reckoning, that's over 9 domains per addressee, on average, but with a maximum of 10, or they'd have made the list above. This seems hugely implausible to me - if the 3178 addressees with 10 or less domains are distributed evenly between 1 and 10 domains, then there is only room for 17490 domains, which is way short of the count listed on Mark's page. They'd have to be massively skewed towards 10 and away from 1 to allow for 29190 domains. Somebody with a better grasp of standard deviations can comment on whether this is statistically plausible. Stepping back from my inadequate statistical analysis, lets look at specifics. nic(a)citylink.co.nz, nic(a)katipo.co.nz and nic(a)wellington.net.nz all resolve to me, in various guises. A quick count in various bind config files leads to me to believe that I am responsible for name servers mastering for about 120 domains. Whenever I setup new DNS services for a user, they get specific instructions to use one of the above email addresses when they fill out the new domain form on www.domainz.net.nz. The vast majority of them do so, and therefore I would be suprised if there are less that 100 occurrences of "nic" in the .nz registry. As a check, I found 15 nic(a)katipo.co.nz's in the Domainz records for the first 20 domains in the Katipo bind config (the rest were simon(a)katipo.co.nz - oops :-). So the 10 listed for "nic" above, is, bluntly, utterly wrong. I'm not a big registrant, by any means, and I'm also not particularly anal about enforcing that my users type the right info into the Tech contact fields - if they want to put their own email addresses in, that's their lookout. However, I believe that the big registrants generally do the domainz rego on behalf of their users, and so it's fair to assume that most of them are more rigorous than I. Therefore, it seems unlikely to me that addresses such as dns(a)netlink.net.nz, soa(a)xtra.co.nz, and operations(a)2day.net.nz have numbers as low as listed above. Perhaps the relevant people could have fun with wget and grep and confirm this.
In reality, there is little clustering around a few "generic" (soa, admin, etc) names either -- "generics" comprising just over 18% of all names chosen.
That is absolutely *not* what the above data says. The above data says (making the rash generalisation that the top 25 addresses are all generics, and the only generics in the 3200 addresses) that generics account for only 2.5% of the names chosen (this may be an invalid assumption, but you'd expect generics to be towards the top of the list). While generics may comprise only 18% of addressees, I'd love to know what proportion of total domains are covered by generic addresses - I'd hypothesise (and hope) that it would be much, much higher. Obviously, this rant doesn't really add anything to the discussion about email addresses, but I for one would be worried if Domainz were using such patently wrong data as part of their decision making process. Cheers Si --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
In the .nz Register, we've got just under 3,200 discrete "Technical contact" addresses. Here's a list of the top 25 Technical Contact "user names" (I mean the fields before the @..),
USER COUNT --------- ---------
<snipped> Our automated registration server shows 4762 .nz domains delegated to 2day.com name servers at 1900 NZDT last Friday. The technical contact address of either operations(a)2day.net.nz or operations(a)2day.com was entered by our system into the registry add or modify template I didnt see the word "operations" in the top 25 at all, so the 2dayless view of dumbainz is working very well. If Mr O'Brien spent just a little time answering important commercial messages from us rather than wasting time on this list, then we would not be spamming all nzirl board and isocnz members with messages looking for somebody with sufficient balls to even acknowledge our quite serious and legit operational concerns. regards Peter Mott Chief Enthusiast 2Day.com -/- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 11:51:50PM +1300, Simon Blake wrote:
I'd be interested to know how many members of nznog saw the request to join NewZ-Flash(a)domainz.net.nz, thought "bah, gratuitous use of mid-word capitalisation, more marketing puff from Domainz", and chose not to join. I know I did, and I'm grateful to Joe for filtering the content of NewZ-Flash(a)domainz.net.nz and passing the interesting bits onto nznog. Had the list been named domainz-annouce(a)domainz.net.nz, or domainz-ops(a)domainz.net.nz, I'd almost certainly have joined the new mailing list.
Now I'm not saying that's rational, you shouldn't judge a book by it's colour, and all that, but that's the thought process I went through.
=) yep. Thats exactly the thought process that I went through. And I could not agree more that, in this case it might have been the wrong one. But when I'm receiving shyte-loads of these kind of messages per day asking me to join every mailing list from every web site that I choose to visit, you would think that a mailing list with content as important as NewZ-Flash(a)domainz.net.nz would have been architected to stand out to me a bit more. I'm sure that someone is going to reply to this and say ``You Dumbass, why didn't you just read the message and judge for yourself rather than just seeing the capital Z and deleting it.'' Well good point - but again, we have atleast two people here (Simon and Myself) , who can be considered in the target audience for this list, who just deleted this message right off the bat. Now if Saachi's made an ad for Telecom NZ which made 50% of it's target audience turn off the tv and walk out of the room instantly, how long do you think it would be before they got their ass's caned? No matter how informative the article is, no matter how important the information is that it carries, if you can't get people to read it then whats the point. To me it's like having a mailing list called `dO_NoT_ReAd_mE_ThEre_iS_NotHinG_ImpOrTaNt_tO_sEe_Here(a)DoMaInZ.nEt.nz' and putting ``Do you want to make money fast!!!'' as the subject. MAN! thats going straight in the bin no matter what it content is*. I suggest that NewZ-Flash(a)domainz.net.nz is only a few steps better. Atleast <whatever>-announce@<wherever>.com is a standard that your target audience is going to understand and do the right thing with, ie read it. Why do you think that Telecom has stuck with the fuzzy animals for so long? If it works then stick with it. They have obviously found that having fuzzy creatures bouncing on the screen while they read their latest toll call special rates is the way to make it stick in peoples minds. The golden rule of marketing ``If it makes people buy it, use it'' So Patrick. I would suggest in future you hire someone from your target audience and have them involved in the decision making process at domainz. If you have already done this, then by the very fact that people like Simon, Joe and myself are having this conversation with you, they are not doing their job. Dean * I actually considered changing the subject of this message to ``Do you want to make money fast!!!'' and then sending it out again, once with the orig subject and once with the new one. Then asking how many people even read the second one. But I think I've made my point and it would just waste peoples mental bandwidth. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dean Pemberton - dp(a)lucent.com Linux User# 157870 Guy who does stuff at Lucent Technologies - Bell Labs Innovations Lvl 38, 55 Collins St, Melbourne 3000, Australia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
At 09:02 am 16/01/00 +1100, Dean Pemberton wrote: <words of wisdom deleted>
So Patrick. I would suggest in future you hire someone from your target audience and have them involved in the decision making process at domainz. If you have already done this, then by the very fact that people like Simon, Joe and myself are having this conversation with you, they are not doing their job.
Reading the postings on this I agree with Dean. What we have is a classic business problem. + Patrick is a CEO who delivers company performance to his Board. Seems to do OK + Company product (Domain Names) is used by a high proportion of market savvy people + product is technical and is made to work by technical people + Patrick markets to the marketing people + The technical people seem to have no point of contact at Domainz To me it seems Patrick needs a permanent technical staffer who makes it work or can advise on the product, while Patrick keeps the marketing people and his Board happy. Perhaps its time the Domainz Board invested in some more staff as this area will continue to grow and unless the issues are resolved they won't go away, just get worse. rich richard.naylor(a)citylink.co.nz This mail message contains information that is confidential and which may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, distribute or copy this message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and erase this mail. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
To me it seems Patrick needs a permanent technical staffer who makes it work or can advise on the product, while Patrick keeps the marketing people and his Board happy. Perhaps its time the Domainz Board invested in some more staff as this area will continue to grow and unless the issues are resolved they won't go away, just get worse.
If the Domainz board introduced performance measures that included customer satisfaction and technical innovation, they would also have to stop hiding behind comments like "I have to support the CEO because according to his brief, he is doing his job well. The fact that I dont agree with the way he does things, or the level of service customers receive is not relevant" regards Peter Mott Chief Enthusiast 2Day.com -/- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Chris Wedgwood wrote:
4service(a)domainz.net.nz
I wonder if I am the only person who thinks of things like send-me-some-warez-d00d(a)domainz.net.nz everytime I see that address?
Taking a break from l33t w4r3z d00dz email addresses, is anyone else
getting this list radically out of sequence? I seem to end up with the
posts in almost reverse order, with a large time delta.. :)
--
David Zanetti
participants (14)
-
2Day Operations -
Andy Gardner -
Chris Wedgwood -
David Zanetti -
Dean Pemberton -
Geoff Thompson -
James Tyson -
Joe Abley -
Patrick O' Brien -
Richard Naylor -
Rob Isaac -
Simon Blake -
Simon Lyall -
Tony Wicks