Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT! -- Matthew Poole "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?" --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Can you put a copy of the message on a website somewhere? I'd be interested in having a copy for historical purposes On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:43:34PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Ill get that indexed by Google & Yahoo for you Dean :)) Any one want to chip in on the $199 USD for better ranking :) Best Regards Matthew G Brown - Wireless Network Specialist - Tasman Solutions lTD On Tuesday 11 September 2001 16:20, you wrote:
Can you put a copy of the message on a website somewhere? I'd be interested in having a copy for historical purposes
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:43:34PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
http://users.attica.net.nz/~mpoole/julian-angelo/julian-angelo-strikes-again... On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Can you put a copy of the message on a website somewhere? I'd be interested in having a copy for historical purposes
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:43:34PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
-- Matthew Poole "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?" --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
headers? On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:04:05PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
http://users.attica.net.nz/~mpoole/julian-angelo/julian-angelo-strikes-again...
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Can you put a copy of the message on a website somewhere? I'd be interested in having a copy for historical purposes
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:43:34PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Gee, I really should think before typing. I have added the headers to the file. On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
headers?
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 05:04:05PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
http://users.attica.net.nz/~mpoole/julian-angelo/julian-angelo-strikes-again...
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Can you put a copy of the message on a website somewhere? I'd be interested in having a copy for historical purposes
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:43:34PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
-- Matthew Poole "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?" --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
you should not be uttering this sort of spew on a public list - unless of course you consider libel and slander charges against yourself and your company to be a good thing. your expressing a certain amount of planned malice - and that don't look right. regards joe On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
It is not slander and libel when you are reporting the truth. I have not embellished in any way, shape or form. The name Julian Angelo is known throughout CallPlus/Attica, not just within the team of people who deal with abuse of our network. Julian Angelo causes so much aggravation for this company that malice is to be expected. He has been spoken to, by phone, by (now former) staff members, and totally refuses to accept that his actions are not acceptable and go against 'net good practice. Coupled with that is Julian's recent request that the discussion of his behaviour on this list in an earlier thread be purged from the archives, a request that is now laughable in the extreme. On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote:
you should not be uttering this sort of spew on a public list - unless of course you consider libel and slander charges against yourself and your company to be a good thing.
your expressing a certain amount of planned malice - and that don't look right.
regards joe
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Matthew Poole "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?" --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
When dealing with clients your opinion of the client is irrelevant. A client is guranteed confidentiality at all levels. You don't go out and make a general announcement to the public. You have erred on the side of violating this individuals privacy - this is a fiduciary duty. You have taken their money and that establishes a fiduciary obligation - which does not include broadcastings the clients identity or personal email. Ask any lawyers you may meet - when dealing with clients for any reason the key is keep your mouth shut. No matter how much this individual has caused your company agrevation - you don't advertise it. Again - ask a lawyer - or better yet a business man of any calibure will tell you the same. But dont' worry too much about it. And from what I see of you your a young pup and you have lots of time to learn. I understand how easy it is to go overboard. Now - if you were to post the information anonymously without revealing yourself as a service provider to the client - that would be fair. And again I understand your arguments - and i'm not disagreeing with you. Clearly this man is a bit ipsy - but that is irrelevant to the legal obligations you have under contract. Regardless of weither those obligations are spelled out a court of law would hold that you have violated thier privacy and slandered and libeled them as a trusted party - i.e. the fiduciary obligations established between a customer and the provider/vendor of a service of any type. anyway - today is an awful day - our network centre in new york is just a few blocks away from the disaster and were backing up before the lights goes out. so if i don't respond to any further question of your i hope you understand. regards joe On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
It is not slander and libel when you are reporting the truth. I have not embellished in any way, shape or form. The name Julian Angelo is known throughout CallPlus/Attica, not just within the team of people who deal with abuse of our network.
Julian Angelo causes so much aggravation for this company that malice is to be expected. He has been spoken to, by phone, by (now former) staff members, and totally refuses to accept that his actions are not acceptable and go against 'net good practice.
Coupled with that is Julian's recent request that the discussion of his behaviour on this list in an earlier thread be purged from the archives, a request that is now laughable in the extreme.
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote:
you should not be uttering this sort of spew on a public list - unless of course you consider libel and slander charges against yourself and your company to be a good thing.
your expressing a certain amount of planned malice - and that don't look right.
regards joe
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
There's a Privacy Act in NZ though... -- Juha :: -----Original Message----- :: From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Matthew Poole :: Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 09:39 :: To: !Dr. Joe Baptista :: Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: Subject: Re: Julian Angelo :: :: :: :: It is not slander and libel when you are reporting the :: truth. I have not :: embellished in any way, shape or form. The name Julian :: Angelo is known :: throughout CallPlus/Attica, not just within the team of :: people who deal :: with abuse of our network. :: :: Julian Angelo causes so much aggravation for this company :: that malice is :: to be expected. He has been spoken to, by phone, by (now :: former) staff :: members, and totally refuses to accept that his actions are not :: acceptable and go against 'net good practice. :: :: Coupled with that is Julian's recent request that the :: discussion of his :: behaviour on this list in an earlier thread be purged from :: the archives, a :: request that is now laughable in the extreme. :: :: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote: :: :: > :: > you should not be uttering this sort of spew on a public :: list - unless of :: > course you consider libel and slander charges against :: yourself and your :: > company to be a good thing. :: > :: > your expressing a certain amount of planned malice - and :: that don't look :: > right. :: > :: > regards :: > joe :: > :: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote: :: > :: > > :: > > Gee, what a short period of reform. :: > > Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his :: "history" be removed :: > > from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. :: > > i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in :: it, and at least :: > > 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by :: NZ's most notorious :: > > e-mail figure. :: > > We're certainly looking forward to closing all his :: accounts. Again. NOT! :: > > :: > > :: > :: > :: :: -- :: Matthew Poole :: :: "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of :: burials then blame it on the cost of living?" :: :: --------- :: To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: where the body of your message reads: :: unsubscribe nznog :: :: --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:
There's a Privacy Act in NZ though...
even if a privacy act does not exist - which in this case it does - the fiduciary responsibility to the client to maintain privacy still exists. A privacy act may make a violation of those obligations worst. regards joe -- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
All Matthew is doing is warning the rest of us that Julian is at it again. And rightly so. Get a life.
-----Original Message----- From: !Dr. Joe Baptista [mailto:baptista(a)pccf.net] Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 8:04 AM To: Juha Saarinen Cc: 'Matthew Poole'; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: Julian Angelo
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:
There's a Privacy Act in NZ though...
even if a privacy act does not exist - which in this case it does - the fiduciary responsibility to the client to maintain privacy still exists. A privacy act may make a violation of those obligations worst.
regards joe
-- Joe Baptista
The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please tell us by return email and delete it and any attachments from your system.
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Philip Beckmann wrote:
All Matthew is doing is warning the rest of us that Julian is at it again. And rightly so. Get a life.
You seem to be taking this personally philip. as the vendor of a service to whoever this Julian Angelo he has no right to tell us anything. Read my comments concerning the legal implications and educate yourself accordingly. The fact that there is a privacy law further agreivates the issue. At best if Matthew feels compeled to warn people he can do so anonymously with data already in the public domain - and not from his companies records. To many system administrators especially those who are religious devotees of the antispam crusades too often act in a knee jerk reaction - and thats just plain wrong when it comes to ones contractual obligation to the client. So I think it best you not take this personally and examine your role as a service provider as reflect in your code of conduct and professional ethics. regards joe
-----Original Message----- From: !Dr. Joe Baptista [mailto:baptista(a)pccf.net] Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 8:04 AM To: Juha Saarinen Cc: 'Matthew Poole'; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: Julian Angelo
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:
There's a Privacy Act in NZ though...
even if a privacy act does not exist - which in this case it does - the fiduciary responsibility to the client to maintain privacy still exists. A privacy act may make a violation of those obligations worst.
regards joe
-- Joe Baptista
The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please tell us by return email and delete it and any attachments from your system.
-- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Indeed there is. I have not released any information about Julian Angelo that isn't already public domain, namely that he's a PITA spammer. On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:
There's a Privacy Act in NZ though...
-- Matthew Poole "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?" --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
Indeed there is. I have not released any information about Julian Angelo that isn't already public domain, namely that he's a PITA spammer.
you doing it again. it's irrelevant if the information exists in the public domain - your putting yourself in a dangerous position if you contribute to it. if your company has a legal department just go and ask a junior there. he'll confirm my position as to your fiduciary responsibilty in this. I know you feel strong about this matthew - would not with some assholes out there. But I can call him an asshole - but you can't. regards joe
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:
There's a Privacy Act in NZ though...
-- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
It is not slander and libel when you are reporting the truth. I have not embellished in any way, shape or form. The name Julian Angelo is known throughout CallPlus/Attica, not just within the team of people who deal with abuse of our network.
Julian Angelo causes so much aggravation for this company that malice is to be expected. He has been spoken to, by phone, by (now former) staff members, and totally refuses to accept that his actions are not acceptable and go against 'net good practice.
It's his business to do that. And still I stand by prudent business practice that it is wrong to "out" your own customer base. Also by violating your fiduciary contractual client relationship you have lost all hope of any legal action against him. As a company it is not your business to report the "truth". Truth is more the realm of a trier of fact - i.e. a judge. It is obvious that your company and julian have differences of opinion - that however does not give you license to violate fundamental issues involved in the client relationship - i.e. his privacy and by default contributing to slander and libel actions. As for a claim of malice. If indeed you feel he has acted maliciously then your options are to terminate the contract for just cause and in extreme condition you have the option to sue him. By publishing your companies opinions you have in fact acted maliciously yourselves therefore reducing any hope of ever effectively winning a judicial judgement for "malice" which would simply amount to a claim of damages. Your company is in a position of trust in this matter. He is your client and as such prudent business practices apply. An old collegue in NYC put's it eloquently - never point a finger when your being paid - just sue for damages.
Coupled with that is Julian's recent request that the discussion of his behaviour on this list in an earlier thread be purged from the archives, a request that is now laughable in the extreme.
I agree but thats not the issue. Nor does it have anything to do with your circumstance. If he feels slandered by conversations on this list he can sue it's operators. Now he can sue you and the list operators and might even make a good case for intent to malice and promote malice himself. So I anticipate he's reading or will read this message of mine. I just pray he won't send me any of his nonsense. The last thing I need is religious diatribes. regards joe
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote:
you should not be uttering this sort of spew on a public list - unless of course you consider libel and slander charges against yourself and your company to be a good thing.
your expressing a certain amount of planned malice - and that don't look right.
regards joe
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
folks - matthew - sorry - just noticed I replied to this message twice. It's been a long day with the new york disaster. my appologies. regards joe On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
It is not slander and libel when you are reporting the truth. I have not embellished in any way, shape or form. The name Julian Angelo is known throughout CallPlus/Attica, not just within the team of people who deal with abuse of our network.
Julian Angelo causes so much aggravation for this company that malice is to be expected. He has been spoken to, by phone, by (now former) staff members, and totally refuses to accept that his actions are not acceptable and go against 'net good practice.
It's his business to do that. And still I stand by prudent business practice that it is wrong to "out" your own customer base. Also by violating your fiduciary contractual client relationship you have lost all hope of any legal action against him.
As a company it is not your business to report the "truth". Truth is more the realm of a trier of fact - i.e. a judge. It is obvious that your company and julian have differences of opinion - that however does not give you license to violate fundamental issues involved in the client relationship - i.e. his privacy and by default contributing to slander and libel actions.
As for a claim of malice. If indeed you feel he has acted maliciously then your options are to terminate the contract for just cause and in extreme condition you have the option to sue him. By publishing your companies opinions you have in fact acted maliciously yourselves therefore reducing any hope of ever effectively winning a judicial judgement for "malice" which would simply amount to a claim of damages.
Your company is in a position of trust in this matter. He is your client and as such prudent business practices apply.
An old collegue in NYC put's it eloquently - never point a finger when your being paid - just sue for damages.
Coupled with that is Julian's recent request that the discussion of his behaviour on this list in an earlier thread be purged from the archives, a request that is now laughable in the extreme.
I agree but thats not the issue. Nor does it have anything to do with your circumstance. If he feels slandered by conversations on this list he can sue it's operators. Now he can sue you and the list operators and might even make a good case for intent to malice and promote malice himself.
So I anticipate he's reading or will read this message of mine. I just pray he won't send me any of his nonsense. The last thing I need is religious diatribes.
regards joe
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote:
you should not be uttering this sort of spew on a public list - unless of course you consider libel and slander charges against yourself and your company to be a good thing.
your expressing a certain amount of planned malice - and that don't look right.
regards joe
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Matthew Poole wrote:
Gee, what a short period of reform. Following on from Messr Angelo's request that his "history" be removed from the archives of NZNOG, he's back again. With a vengance. i4free's abuse mailbox currently has about 26 e-mails in it, and at least 18 of them are regarding the latest spam campaign by NZ's most notorious e-mail figure. We're certainly looking forward to closing all his accounts. Again. NOT!
-- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
And you have what to do with NZ network operations? Gordon Smith Network Operations Manager MoreNet Ltd. Fingerprint: 4093 91BC 0055 46B9 1B1A EDBA 45AD 2381 7B1D E4BE
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of !Dr. Joe Baptista Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 14:20 To: Matthew Poole Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Julian Angelo
It's his business to do that. And still I stand by prudent business practice that it is wrong to "out" your own customer base. Also by violating your fiduciary contractual client relationship you have lost all hope of any legal action against him.
As a company it is not your business to report the "truth". Truth is more the realm of a trier of fact - i.e. a judge. It is obvious that your company and julian have differences of opinion - that however does not give you license to violate fundamental issues involved in the client relationship - i.e. his privacy and by default contributing to slander and libel actions.
As for a claim of malice. If indeed you feel he has acted maliciously then your options are to terminate the contract for just cause and in extreme condition you have the option to sue him. By publishing your companies opinions you have in fact acted maliciously yourselves therefore reducing any hope of ever effectively winning a judicial judgement for "malice" which would simply amount to a claim of damages.
Your company is in a position of trust in this matter. He is your client and as such prudent business practices apply.
An old collegue in NYC put's it eloquently - never point a finger when your being paid - just sue for damages.
Coupled with that is Julian's recent request that the discussion of his behaviour on this list in an earlier thread be purged from the
archives, a
request that is now laughable in the extreme.
I agree but thats not the issue. Nor does it have anything to do with your circumstance. If he feels slandered by conversations on this list he can sue it's operators. Now he can sue you and the list operators and might even make a good case for intent to malice and promote malice himself.
So I anticipate he's reading or will read this message of mine. I just pray he won't send me any of his nonsense. The last thing I need is religious diatribes.
regards joe
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 04:45:54PM +1200, Gordon Smith wrote:
And you have what to do with NZ network operations?
Please, if you really must reply to Dr Baptista, please make sure to copy him directly on the mail. Otherwise procmail won't realise the content relates to kooks, and correspondingly won't copy the message directly to /dev/null. Joe --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Joe Abley wrote:
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 04:45:54PM +1200, Gordon Smith wrote:
And you have what to do with NZ network operations?
Please, if you really must reply to Dr Baptista, please make sure to copy him directly on the mail.
Otherwise procmail won't realise the content relates to kooks, and correspondingly won't copy the message directly to /dev/null.
i told you it was hard to do the procmail think - but just use a global block on baptista and that should protect you some. joe -- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Oops... sorry Joe :-)
-----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley(a)automagic.org] Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 13:20 To: Gordon Smith Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Julian Angelo
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 04:45:54PM +1200, Gordon Smith wrote:
And you have what to do with NZ network operations?
Please, if you really must reply to Dr Baptista, please make sure to copy him directly on the mail.
Otherwise procmail won't realise the content relates to kooks, and correspondingly won't copy the message directly to /dev/null.
Joe
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
mainly monitoring - my interest is in introducing top level domains to local aboriginal groups and i've been monitoring this group for a few months with the intent of grading the collective IQ. incidentally we have been very successful in creating tld's for australian aboriginal groups. and nz we feel is the next logical progression. now - don't you feel important you live in a country we consider strategic? regards joe On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Gordon Smith wrote:
And you have what to do with NZ network operations?
Gordon Smith Network Operations Manager
MoreNet Ltd.
Fingerprint: 4093 91BC 0055 46B9 1B1A EDBA 45AD 2381 7B1D E4BE
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of !Dr. Joe Baptista Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 14:20 To: Matthew Poole Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Julian Angelo
It's his business to do that. And still I stand by prudent business practice that it is wrong to "out" your own customer base. Also by violating your fiduciary contractual client relationship you have lost all hope of any legal action against him.
As a company it is not your business to report the "truth". Truth is more the realm of a trier of fact - i.e. a judge. It is obvious that your company and julian have differences of opinion - that however does not give you license to violate fundamental issues involved in the client relationship - i.e. his privacy and by default contributing to slander and libel actions.
As for a claim of malice. If indeed you feel he has acted maliciously then your options are to terminate the contract for just cause and in extreme condition you have the option to sue him. By publishing your companies opinions you have in fact acted maliciously yourselves therefore reducing any hope of ever effectively winning a judicial judgement for "malice" which would simply amount to a claim of damages.
Your company is in a position of trust in this matter. He is your client and as such prudent business practices apply.
An old collegue in NYC put's it eloquently - never point a finger when your being paid - just sue for damages.
Coupled with that is Julian's recent request that the discussion of his behaviour on this list in an earlier thread be purged from the
archives, a
request that is now laughable in the extreme.
I agree but thats not the issue. Nor does it have anything to do with your circumstance. If he feels slandered by conversations on this list he can sue it's operators. Now he can sue you and the list operators and might even make a good case for intent to malice and promote malice himself.
So I anticipate he's reading or will read this message of mine. I just pray he won't send me any of his nonsense. The last thing I need is religious diatribes.
regards joe
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-- Joe Baptista The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
participants (8)
-
!Dr. Joe Baptista -
Dean Pemberton -
Gordon Smith -
Joe Abley -
Juha Saarinen -
Matthew G Brown -
Matthew Poole -
Philip Beckmann