Re: Re: [nznog] linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz
"WIX peers only" mirror, much like ftp.nz.debian.org? I notice the "your ISP is broken" message is still broken:
Looks like peering with the APE route servers wont actually fix it.
"...MAY be able to fix this problem for you... at the APE OR the WIX" - doesn't seem to me that it's broken. Seems quite reasonable as a generic sorry-no-peering-at-the-appropriate-place-and-we're-not-paying-for-the-traffic message. Cheers, Jonny.
Jonny Martin said:
"...MAY be able to fix this problem for you... at the APE OR the WIX" - doesn't seem to me that it's broken.
Seems quite reasonable as a generic sorry-no-peering-at-the-appropriate-place-and-we're-not-paying-for-the-traffic message.
Generic sure, but peering with the route servers at the APE will not, in the foreseeable future, fix the problem. Try explaining this to people who don't understand the concept of peering, the fact that bandwidth costs more than what the end user pays for it, etc. They just want their apt-get to work when they say they're in New Zealand. Cheers Michael
On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:10:43PM +1300, Michael Jager wrote:
what the end user pays for it, etc. They just want their apt-get to work when they say they're in New Zealand.
Maybe Maxnet is willing to offer a NZ-wide connected trust-worthy debian mirror? I used debian.win.co.nz when it was around. The balkanisation of the NZ national network is though no fault of Citylink. They obviously can't justified the current business expense of running ftp.nz.debian.org nationwide, maybe another ISP is willing to carry the cost. Nicholas
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Nicholas Lee wrote:
On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:10:43PM +1300, Michael Jager wrote:
The balkanisation of the NZ national network is though no fault of Citylink. They obviously can't justified the current business expense of running ftp.nz.debian.org nationwide, maybe another ISP is willing to carry the cost.
For as long as Testicular want to play their peering games, it will be financially risky for an ISP to host a mirror that is available to the whole country. Particularly with Xtra just gagging to drop peering.
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Nicholas Lee wrote:
On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:10:43PM +1300, Michael Jager wrote:
what the end user pays for it, etc. They just want their apt-get to work when they say they're in New Zealand.
Maybe Maxnet is willing to offer a NZ-wide connected trust-worthy debian mirror? I used debian.win.co.nz when it was around.
We would have no problem providing rack space and domestic transit for a mirror machine. The problem is, nobody here has the time to maintain it, and one of the biggest gripes I've seen is that "all the other mirrors lag or aren't maintained". It could conceivably be something we do in the future. regards aj -- Network Operations || noc. +64.9.915.1825 Maxnet || cell. +64.21.639.706
I've been maintaining the primary NZ Redhat (and now Whitebox and Fedora) mirror for several years in its various guises and it really doesn't take that much effort. Once it is set up properly (that takes a bit of experience mind you) rsync and logwatch pretty much do 98% of the work. It usually is happy with 10 meg of bandwidth (averaging between 1 and 3 most of the time) but likes to peak at 35meg or so during release times if you let it. Ive always either worked for or had access to a friendly ISP that isn't using some outgoing bandwith that could get dontated to the cause. (its been ftp.redhat.co.nz then ftp.isl.net.nz and now its ftp.wicks.co.nz cuz I pretty much pay for the hardware myself, but putting something back to the community keeps the balance imho) Alastair Johnson wrote:
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Nicholas Lee wrote:
On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:10:43PM +1300, Michael Jager wrote:
what the end user pays for it, etc. They just want their apt-get to work when they say they're in New Zealand.
Maybe Maxnet is willing to offer a NZ-wide connected trust-worthy debian mirror? I used debian.win.co.nz when it was around.
We would have no problem providing rack space and domestic transit for a mirror machine. The problem is, nobody here has the time to maintain it, and one of the biggest gripes I've seen is that "all the other mirrors lag or aren't maintained".
It could conceivably be something we do in the future.
regards
aj
Hi Folks, Wondering if anyone can explain the magic behind which Windows Update Server a client will connect to. This is somewhat relevant to NZNOG in that I've noticed that our updates are sometimes coming from Australia and would like to keep everyone's traffic in the neighborhood. Cheers, Jon
Jonathan Brewer wrote:
Hi Folks,
Wondering if anyone can explain the magic behind which Windows Update Server a client will connect to. This is somewhat relevant to NZNOG in that I've noticed that our updates are sometimes coming from Australia and would like to keep everyone's traffic in the neighborhood.
'man akamai' ;-) -- Juha
that will be part of AKAMAI wont it? global mirroring type thingy? Jonathan Brewer wrote:
Hi Folks,
Wondering if anyone can explain the magic behind which Windows Update Server a client will connect to. This is somewhat relevant to NZNOG in that I've noticed that our updates are sometimes coming from Australia and would like to keep everyone's traffic in the neighborhood.
Cheers,
Jon
_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
It is based on Akamai (where download.microsoft.com is pointing). But for some reason.. they seem to move it around ALL the time. Anyone from Microsoft/Akamai comment/can find out WHY its switching around all the time (with us it changes every 20-30 mins.. NZ..Australia.. US.. Australia....) Instead of just going to the Akamai Servers in NZ Thanks Craig Whitmore Orcon Internet
-----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Brewer [mailto:jon.brewer(a)worldnet.att.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:13 PM To: 'nznog' Subject: [nznog] Windows Update Server Selection
Hi Folks,
Wondering if anyone can explain the magic behind which Windows Update Server a client will connect to. This is somewhat relevant to NZNOG in that I've noticed that our updates are sometimes coming from Australia and would like to keep everyone's traffic in the neighborhood.
Cheers,
Jon
_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
It is NOT based on Akamai. They use Digital Island Footprint, not Akamai. Sometimes it might be handled by akamai, but definately not always. aj On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Craig Whitmore wrote:
It is based on Akamai (where download.microsoft.com is pointing). But for some reason.. they seem to move it around ALL the time. Anyone from Microsoft/Akamai comment/can find out WHY its switching around all the time (with us it changes every 20-30 mins.. NZ..Australia.. US.. Australia....) Instead of just going to the Akamai Servers in NZ
Thanks Craig Whitmore Orcon Internet
-----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Brewer [mailto:jon.brewer(a)worldnet.att.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 1:13 PM To: 'nznog' Subject: [nznog] Windows Update Server Selection
Hi Folks,
Wondering if anyone can explain the magic behind which Windows Update Server a client will connect to. This is somewhat relevant to NZNOG in that I've noticed that our updates are sometimes coming from Australia and would like to keep everyone's traffic in the neighborhood.
Cheers,
Jon
_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
-- Network Operations || noc. +64.9.915.1825 Maxnet || cell. +64.21.639.706
To clarify this a little further (I was on the phone while typing the below message). windowsupdate.microsoft.com is load balanced by Footprint, which is a part of DigIsle/C&W/Savvis/name of the day. There used to be a Digital Island cluster in NZ at Xtra, but I -think- this might have been decommissioned. Microsoft and Digital Island load balance the content out of their distribution centres in the US, Digital Island, and Akamai, based on four factors: - Cost - Geographic location - Content availability - Load If they have Akamaized content available, and it is at the time cheaper or more efficient for them to use it, they will. Some download.microsoft.com content is Akamaized, but not all of it. Some Windows Updates are Akamaized -- particularly during the launches of major service packs -- but not all of it. aj. (who's good friends with akamai technology directors) On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Alastair Johnson wrote:
It is NOT based on Akamai.
They use Digital Island Footprint, not Akamai.
Sometimes it might be handled by akamai, but definately not always.
aj
-- Network Operations || noc. +64.9.915.1825 Maxnet || cell. +64.21.639.706
If you can all just hold out for a few weeks we'll have a copy of the Debian mirror in Auckland available on "APE and WIX only" addresses. Then it's your call to get to one or more of those locations to pick the content up. As a heavy consumer of the Debian archive we bring it into NZ for our own use and we choose to make it available where the cost to us is zero or close to it. I'm kind of interested in the postings on this list carping about how we should do more to make this available. I think we're doing our bit on this - we're paying to bring the content into NZ and we're going to pay to ship it to Auckland as well. We think that you should be either be arranging to peer at the exchanges (and there are advantages at peering at both) or demanding that your favourite telco gets their act together and does it on your behalf. If they won't then move to an ISP who will and let both your old and new provider know that's why you've moved. As we've said before we're happy to provide address space in the APE only, WIX only and "APE and WIX" only ranges to those with content where the producer is willing to forego global or even national reach for a better price. If you've got such content and are willing to accept these restrictions on reachability talk to us. We're already working with others to provide other content like this and will work on it as we and they have spare cycles. Please bear in mind that the alternatives are paying for international traffic.
-----Original Message----- From: Andy Linton [mailto:asjl(a)citylink.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2004 12:10 p.m. To: nznog Subject: Re: [nznog] linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz If you can all just hold out for a few weeks we'll have a copy of the Debian mirror in Auckland available on "APE and WIX only" addresses. Then it's your call to get to one or more of those locations to pick the content up. As a heavy consumer of the Debian archive we bring it into NZ for our own use and we choose to make it available where the cost to us is zero or close to it. I'm kind of interested in the postings on this list carping about how we should do more to make this available. I think we're doing our bit on this - we're paying to bring the content into NZ and we're going to pay to ship it to Auckland as well. We think that you should be either be arranging to peer at the exchanges (and there are advantages at peering at both) or demanding that your favourite telco gets their act together and does it on your behalf. If they won't then move to an ISP who will and let both your old and new provider know that's why you've moved. As we've said before we're happy to provide address space in the APE only, WIX only and "APE and WIX" only ranges to those with content where the producer is willing to forego global or even national reach for a better price. If you've got such content and are willing to accept these restrictions on reachability talk to us. We're already working with others to provide other content like this and will work on it as we and they have spare cycles. Please bear in mind that the alternatives are paying for international traffic. _______________________________________________ What is amusing me even more, is that the subject of this whole thread linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz _is_ currently serving up an updated debian archive amongst others, that should be reachable NZ wide. If people are finding they can't reach this from a NZ address can they let me know so I can look at the firewall ruleset and update as necessary.
On Wednesday, 06 October 2004 12:13, Jeremy Clyma wrote: > If you can all just hold out for a few weeks we'll have a copy of the > Debian mirror in Auckland available on "APE and WIX only" addresses. Then > it's your call to get to one or more of those locations to pick the content > up. > > What is amusing me even more, is that the subject of this whole thread > linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz _is_ currently serving up an updated debian > archive amongst others, that should be reachable NZ wide. >From a lurker's point of view on this thread - the issue I find with the Debian/RedHat/Mandrake/SuSE/Gentoo etc mirrors in NZ is that 1. They are not listed as official mirrors on the distributions mirror list (which I can understand to reduce traffic) 2. The lack of anyway to find out where the mirrors are and the status of a particular NZ mirror, e.g. what is covered by the mirror and how frequently it is updated. -- Regards Scott Newton R&D Analyst Quanta Systems Ltd 3rd Floor, 60 Khyber Pass Road PO Box 2288, AUCKLAND Tel: (09) 302 3760 Fax: (09) 302 3784 Website: http://www.quanta.co.nz The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential and intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are asked to respect that confidentiality and not disclose, copy or make use of its contents. If received in error you are asked to destroy this email and contact the sender immediately. Your assistance is appreciated.
Scott Newton wrote:
2. The lack of anyway to find out where the mirrors are and the status of a particular NZ mirror, e.g. what is covered by the mirror and how frequently it is updated>
Our Debian mirror is updated nightly and if you look up for ftp.nz.debian.org shows it points at 202.7.4.9 -> ftp.citylink.co.nz There is an issue that because it's listed on numbers that aren't accessible from overseas then the Debian folks can't access it to check how up to date it is. That'll get sorted when Si gets back from leave. But you can use it safe in the knowledge it's up to date.
Richard Patterson wrote:
Andy Linton wrote:
Our Debian mirror is updated nightly and if you look up for ftp.nz.debian.org shows it points at 202.7.4.9 -> ftp.citylink.co.nz
But you can use it safe in the knowledge it's up to date.
I can't.
Think of it as one more reason to move to Wellington!
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
What is amusing me even more, is that the subject of this whole thread linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz _is_ currently serving up an updated debian archive amongst others, that should be reachable NZ wide.
The Australian debian mirror is also reachable NZ wide, but costs money to get to. For anyone connected to WIX (and soon APE), the Citylink provided debian mirrors cost much much less to get to (in many cases, arguably nothing). At present, the route to the linux.jetstreamgames server is via Xtras APE connection - will the jetstreamgames debian mirror remain accessable via this peering point? (Either at the peering exchanges or through private peering links). --David
-----Original Message----- From: David Robb [mailto:ender(a)paradise.gen.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2004 12:34 p.m. To: Jeremy Clyma Cc: 'nznog' Subject: RE: [nznog] linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
What is amusing me even more, is that the subject of this whole thread linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz _is_ currently serving up an updated debian archive amongst others, that should be reachable NZ wide.
The Australian debian mirror is also reachable NZ wide, but costs money to get to. For anyone connected to WIX (and soon APE), the Citylink provided debian mirrors cost much much less to get to (in many cases, arguably nothing). At present, the route to the linux.jetstreamgames server is via Xtras APE connection - will the jetstreamgames debian mirror remain accessable via this peering point? (Either at the peering exchanges or through private peering links). --David For as long as I can maintain it, the archives will be accessible via where ever the peering points happen to be. Currently that's via APE as far as I know, but with not being directly involved with peering decisions.... Jeremy
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
For as long as I can maintain it, the archives will be accessible via where ever the peering points happen to be. Currently that's via APE as far as I know, but with not being directly involved with peering decisions....
:) It just seems somewhat pointless to have 2 quite functional debian mirrors in the country, when one would do. Why not make the Citylink debian mirror accessible from the jetstreamgames realm, and save on the maintenance of the box? --David
David Robb wrote:
It just seems somewhat pointless to have 2 quite functional debian mirrors in the country, when one would do. Why not make the Citylink debian mirror accessible from the jetstreamgames realm, and save on the maintenance of the box?
One word, redundancy.... Two is always better than one Two words, what if... What if one is on a network unaccessible at the time due to peering difficulties ? - Drew
At 12:37 p.m. 6/10/2004, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: David Robb [mailto:ender(a)paradise.gen.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 6 October 2004 12:34 p.m. To: Jeremy Clyma Cc: 'nznog' Subject: RE: [nznog] linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
What is amusing me even more, is that the subject of this whole thread linux.jetstreamgames.co.nz _is_ currently serving up an updated debian archive amongst others, that should be reachable NZ wide.
The Australian debian mirror is also reachable NZ wide, but costs money to get to. For anyone connected to WIX (and soon APE), the Citylink provided debian mirrors cost much much less to get to (in many cases, arguably nothing).
At present, the route to the linux.jetstreamgames server is via Xtras APE connection - will the jetstreamgames debian mirror remain accessable via this peering point? (Either at the peering exchanges or through private peering links).
--David
For as long as I can maintain it, the archives will be accessible via where ever the peering points happen to be. Currently that's via APE as far as I know, but with not being directly involved with peering decisions....
There aren't any plans to change the way this currently routes which is either direct to peering partners or via APE / WIX peers as appropriate, or to the DSL environment and others via Global Gateway as needed. AFAIK it's accessible to all in NZ via the above mentioned methods but let Jeremy know if that's not your experience and we'll see if we can get it sorted for you. Regards, -- Ted Grenfell, ISP Performance Manager, IS Ops & Service Delivery, Telecom NZ Limited Mob: +64 274 435 455; DDI: +64 9359 5854; Fax: +64 9377 0781 ICQ: 191891; MSN Messenger: cameleon @ xtra.co.nz Level 2 The Plaza, 2 Hereford St, Private Bag 92028, Auckland CBD This email is for the person(s) identified above, and is confidential to the sender and the person(s). No one else is authorised to use or disseminate this email or its contents. The email or its contents do not necessarily represent the views of Xtra Limited or Telecom. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002.
On 6/10/2004, at 12:33 PM, David Robb wrote:
At present, the route to the linux.jetstreamgames server is via Xtras APE connection - will the jetstreamgames debian mirror remain accessable via this peering point? (Either at the peering exchanges or through private peering links).
What about the path from linux.jetstreamgames -> you? That's the important one, as that's where most of the bits are. -- Nathan Ward
participants (18)
-
Alastair Johnson -
Andy Linton -
Craig Whitmore -
Dan Clark -
David Robb -
Drew Broadley -
Jeremy Clyma -
Jonathan Brewer -
Jonny Martin -
Juha Saarinen -
Matthew Poole -
Michael Jager -
Nathan Ward -
Nicholas Lee -
Richard Patterson -
Scott Newton -
Ted Grenfell -
Tony Wicks