On 18-Apr-2006, at 20:44, Simon wrote:

1). Many of our business customers have a laptop and use jetstream at work and a vodaphone connection for roaming, making our authenticated SMTP servers very handy for these (noramlly) non-tech type people.

Many hotspots and other places of drop-in connectivity either block port 25 connections outbound altogether, or redirect them to a local MTA. Setting up roaming business customers to use port 25 to send mail seems like a recipe for helpdesk fun. I submit mail using SSL-wrapped SMTP on port 465, and the server I connects to relays based on successful SMTP AUTH. I travel a bit, and it works for me. Joe

On 18-Apr-2006, at 21:01, Alastair Johnson wrote:

Until you get stuck at a hotel or hotspot which ONLY allows 25/tcp 80/tcp 443/tcp out.

That's when you call Jonny and start crawling out of seventh floor windows with omni antennas pointed at the Novatel lobby. Joe

On 20/04/2006, at 08:32 , Nicholas Lee wrote:

On 4/19/06, Alastair Johnson wrote: I seem to be forever reconfiguring my email client between 25/tcp, 587/tcp, and 10025/tcp in order to get my email out. Sometimes it becomes too hard. :(

Use thunderbird, it has a very nice interface for managing multiple smtp servers.

Yeah, Apple Mail happily cycles through a list of them too... tho it still prompts you every time it fails. It would be good to have a mail application that figured it out ;) Give it a few options in order of preference, and let it try a few. Mainly only applicable to mobile type users. Or people with 6 different ISPs ;) -Jo.

On 4/19/06, Craig Whitmore wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: [nznog] Port 25

...

Just a quick email to the list to find out what other service providers are doing regarding XTRA blocking port 25 when your company does not provide internet connections, so many of your customers are using xtra as a service provider but not for other services wuch as mail.

We at ORCON have the submission port available to be used. We have people who have "outside ORCON" internet access who use SMTP AUTH and TLS on port 25 (Telecom Mobile/Vodafone Mobile/Xtra Hotspots etc). All Xtra connected customers will have to do is change it from SMTP port (25) to the Submission Port (587) and it will work when XTRA Block Port 25 to external mail servers to their network.

Yes there is the the 465 Port (SSL before the Start of SMTP talking - as noted by other people) but I don't know many common clients which support this at all.

I had thought to allow non-secure connections on a completly different port (such as 2525)... would it be better to use port 587 you think? Is this simply a change the port from the clients point of view (just to clarify on your statment above)? Simon

On 18-Apr-2006, at 20:59, Craig Whitmore wrote:

Yes there is the the 465 Port (SSL before the Start of SMTP talking - as noted by other people) but I don't know many common clients which support this at all.

Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, Apple Mail? Joe

On 4/19/06, Mark Foster wrote:

...

Just a quick email to the list to find out what other service providers are doing regarding XTRA blocking port 25 when your company does not provide internet connections, so many of your customers are using xtra as a service provider but not for other services wuch as mail.

Many of my customers are XTRA customers, but are also vodafone etc etc, so an external autheticated mail server is a huge bonus for them. Use secure port?

Xtra offer a product called 'Secure Remote Email' which is an alternative for roaming customers. SSL, and works regardless of the ISP you're on.

Is good to know for customer reference. Telstra Clear offers this already and i didnt know that Xtra do. Cool.

Note that if your Usually-via-Xtra customer was on Vodafone and sending to a destination other than xtra, using smtp.xtra.co.nz would never have worked in the first place as Xtra don't provide Authenticated SMTP except for their SRE product, IIRC.

Yea - our customers all use our servers which require authenticated access, so my issue was more with what todo with XTRA customers...

Likewise your Usually-via-someone-else customer attempting to send their mail back to someone-elses-smtp-server over a service with Port 25 Blocked will have similar relay issues unless theyre authenticating somehow - however, 'thems the breaks' if theyre on Xtra's network, and their network provider (whoever it is that is Xtra's customer on their behalf) hasn't gotten an exception to the rule. Solution, as already suggested: Use another port, or use smtp.xtra.co.nz.

Yep - was going to use port 2525, but have decided to use 587 which is an industry standard port for mail.

...

Noted that Xtra have stated that people who want to be excluded from the block need only ask.

Yep :) - have you seen what they want you to agree to for this? Tell them your AV software Tell them your firewall software State the reason for doing it Tell them your mail server software Agree to terms and conditions including that you will keep your AV and firewall software up to date at all times.

I say good on Xtra for finally implementing something which should have been done years ago! The doomsayers need to start thinking pragmatically about this; there are plenty of ways around this. (Heck, when i'm travelling, I am either using SSH or Webmail..)

Agreed, i think. I had a thought that it would be quite a good idea for service providers to be able to apply to XTRA to get there servers excluded from the list. Haven't thought about the practically or legal issues here - of which there are many! Side: I remember doing some work with Vodafone and Telecom a number of years ago regarding SMS gateways and having to sign some documents that basically said: "If you stuff our network, or dont, for any reason, or not, to do with anything, or nothing: You will pay" - was a laugh at the time! Simon

Mark Foster wrote:

...

I had a thought that it would be quite a good idea for service providers to be able to apply to XTRA to get there servers excluded from the list. Haven't thought about the practically or legal issues here - of which there are many!

Huh? Xtra's policy affects their customers only. How does this indicate a need for other providers to be excluded - when the policy doesnt affect them?

By allowing outbound 25/tcp to a list of "good ISPs" SMTP servers? Michael