I'm guessing but the Moderators reminder may be directed at the source of some of today's messages as well as recent days. Jamie

On 10/11/2014, at 10:48 pm, Dean Pemberton wrote:

[purposely sent to the list]

What was that in relation to in particular

Dean

...

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Simon Lyall wrote:

Just a reminder to everyone that the list AUP includes:

6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable.

so please try not to overdo it.

The full AUP is here:

http://www.nznog.org/mailing-list

Simon. NZNOG list co-moderator.

-- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar

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I agree, though anyone talking commercial terms needs to be sensitive to the fact that (among other things) this is a technical audience, not one looking for a series of sales pitches. But factual reporting of 'value' is useful, even for engineers. (As an aside, It would be nice to ensure that emails coming from 'role accounts' are at least personally signed, so we know who's 'behind the mask'...) Mark. On 12/11/2014 1:16 p.m., Dave Mill wrote:

I'd have to say that if a new IX (or two) starts up in NZ and we can't talk about it on this list then there is something wrong with this list.

My 2 cents anyway..

Cheers Dave

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM, jamie baddeley mailto:jamie.baddeley(a)vpc.co.nz> wrote:

I'm guessing but the Moderators reminder may be directed at the source of some of today's messages as well as recent days.

Jamie

> On 10/11/2014, at 10:48 pm, Dean Pemberton mailto:nznog(a)deanpemberton.com> wrote: > > [purposely sent to the list] > > What was that in relation to in particular > > Dean > >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Simon Lyall mailto:simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz> wrote: >> >> Just a reminder to everyone that the list AUP includes: >> >> 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. >> >> so please try not to overdo it. >> >> The full AUP is here: >> >> http://www.nznog.org/mailing-list >> >> Simon. >> NZNOG list co-moderator. >> >> -- >> Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ >> "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NZNOG mailing list >> NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >> http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Hi Jamie, surely any talk of services\ capabilities available from suppliers should be allowed. However, maybe the line is drawn, that the $$ amounts are not to be on-list. So should any potential customers be interested in a service\capability, then the prices would need to be requested privately via web\email from the advertising supplier. Just a thought. Cheers, Paul Adshead On 12 November 2014 21:48, Jamie Baddeley wrote:

Agree with that. I'm sure the Citylink folks are keen to talk Blatant product or service marketing too but I think they've been honouring the AUP and resisting the temptation.

Here's a question. Are we as a community saying we want that aspect of the AUP changed? I think a discussion on that would be good.

Jamie

On 12 November 2014 13:16, Dave Mill wrote:

...

I'd have to say that if a new IX (or two) starts up in NZ and we can't talk about it on this list then there is something wrong with this list.

My 2 cents anyway..

Cheers Dave

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM, jamie baddeley < jamie.baddeley(a)vpc.co.nz> wrote:

...

I'm guessing but the Moderators reminder may be directed at the source of some of today's messages as well as recent days.

Jamie

...

On 10/11/2014, at 10:48 pm, Dean Pemberton wrote:

[purposely sent to the list]

What was that in relation to in particular

Dean

...

On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Simon Lyall wrote:

Just a reminder to everyone that the list AUP includes:

6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable.

so please try not to overdo it.

The full AUP is here:

http://www.nznog.org/mailing-list

Simon. NZNOG list co-moderator.

-- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

---

NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

---

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That seems anti-competitive to me. If a company has no problem giving their prices out on a public forum I feel they should be congratulated not discouraged. Regards, Joel van Velden On 12/11/2014 10:26 p.m., Paul Adshead wrote:

Hi Jamie, surely any talk of services\ capabilities available from suppliers should be allowed. However, maybe the line is drawn, that the $$ amounts are not to be on-list. So should any potential customers be interested in a service\capability, then the prices would need to be requested privately via web\email from the advertising supplier.

Just a thought.

Cheers, Paul Adshead

On 12 November 2014 21:48, Jamie Baddeley mailto:jamie.baddeley(a)vpc.co.nz> wrote:

Agree with that. I'm sure the Citylink folks are keen to talk Blatant product or service marketing too but I think they've been honouring the AUP and resisting the temptation.

Here's a question. Are we as a community saying we want that aspect of the AUP changed? I think a discussion on that would be good.

Jamie

On 12 November 2014 13:16, Dave Mill mailto:davemill(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I'd have to say that if a new IX (or two) starts up in NZ and we can't talk about it on this list then there is something wrong with this list.

My 2 cents anyway..

Cheers Dave

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM, jamie baddeley mailto:jamie.baddeley(a)vpc.co.nz> wrote:

I'm guessing but the Moderators reminder may be directed at the source of some of today's messages as well as recent days.

Jamie

> On 10/11/2014, at 10:48 pm, Dean Pemberton mailto:nznog(a)deanpemberton.com> wrote: > > [purposely sent to the list] > > What was that in relation to in particular > > Dean > >> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Simon Lyall mailto:simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz> wrote: >> >> Just a reminder to everyone that the list AUP includes: >> >> 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. >> >> so please try not to overdo it. >> >> The full AUP is here: >> >> http://www.nznog.org/mailing-list >> >> Simon. >> NZNOG list co-moderator. >> >> -- >> Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.simonlyall.com/ >> "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NZNOG mailing list >> NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >> http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 = can someone at X ISP fix my internet, and 10 = super serious and relevant networky stuff, I would have thought announcements of new exchanges would be closer to 10. Just my 0.00000002 BTC On 13 November 2014 13:28, Don Gould wrote:

On 12/11/2014 10:58 p.m., Joel van Velden wrote:

That seems anti-competitive to me. If a company has no problem giving their prices out on a public forum I feel they should be congratulated not discouraged.

I agree.

There has to be a balance here I think. I'd personally like to see more price info bouncing about.

Personally I like to see info on what to expect to pay for stuff, even when it's not directly relevant to me at the time.

What I don't want to see is 'fishing posts' - "Hi, looking for 10RU in SkyTower, what's your best offer...", knowing that your mate is about to just plaster the board with his promo of the week.

How do the newbi's get a feel for the market? How do folk get a heads up that a price is not that sharp? How do sellers get an idea of where they need to pitch their pricing?

I think we're currently missing the mark on these issues and as a result we might not be growing our market as hard and fast as we could be.

Having said all this, this is an operational list and I don't want to be filtering out endless posts from Vendor X, Y and Z.

I wonder if we need a 'sales' list. I know I'd subscribe to that list, but I just wouldn't watch it as hard.

D

-- Don Gould 31 Acheson Ave Mairehau Christchurch, New Zealand Ph: + 64 3 348 7235 Mobile: + 64 21 114 0699 Ph: +61 3 9111 1821 (Melb)

I'M COLLECTING COFFEE CUPS FOR PROJECT COFFEE CUP.

Deja vue (missing the French accent mark) - literally means already seen, that sense of haven't we been here before.

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Agreed. I'd be happy to see what Citylink was upto in this space. I can see how this could be seen as 'commercial' but when I also view it as one of the most important changes in the architecture of the NZ Internet in quite a while..... I can get over it. Post on I say[1] Dean [1] I'm not a moderator BTW, so I don't actually get to 'say' On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Tim Hoffman wrote:

FWIW (noting Jamie's comments about CityLink feeling like they can't comment) I would see any updates, comments, or information that Citylink may want to share in light of these market developments as also falling into the 10 category.....

Just my $0.01USD ;)

Sent from my iPhone

...

On Nov 12, 2014, at 4:46 PM, Sam Russell wrote:

On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 = can someone at X ISP fix my internet, and 10 = super serious and relevant networky stuff, I would have thought announcements of new exchanges would be closer to 10.

Just my 0.00000002 BTC

...

On 13 November 2014 13:28, Don Gould wrote: On 12/11/2014 10:58 p.m., Joel van Velden wrote:

That seems anti-competitive to me. If a company has no problem giving their prices out on a public forum I feel they should be congratulated not discouraged.

I agree.

There has to be a balance here I think. I'd personally like to see more price info bouncing about.

Personally I like to see info on what to expect to pay for stuff, even when it's not directly relevant to me at the time.

What I don't want to see is 'fishing posts' - "Hi, looking for 10RU in SkyTower, what's your best offer...", knowing that your mate is about to just plaster the board with his promo of the week.

How do the newbi's get a feel for the market? How do folk get a heads up that a price is not that sharp? How do sellers get an idea of where they need to pitch their pricing?

I think we're currently missing the mark on these issues and as a result we might not be growing our market as hard and fast as we could be.

Having said all this, this is an operational list and I don't want to be filtering out endless posts from Vendor X, Y and Z.

I wonder if we need a 'sales' list. I know I'd subscribe to that list, but I just wouldn't watch it as hard.

D

-- Don Gould 31 Acheson Ave Mairehau Christchurch, New Zealand Ph: + 64 3 348 7235 Mobile: + 64 21 114 0699 Ph: +61 3 9111 1821 (Melb)

I'M COLLECTING COFFEE CUPS FOR PROJECT COFFEE CUP.

Deja vue (missing the French accent mark) - literally means already seen, that sense of haven't we been here before.

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