From: Joe Abley Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 5:20 a.m. To: Ian Batterbee Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ?

On 9-Jun-2006, at 05:52, Ian Batterbee wrote:

...

That, uh, certainly seems to qualify, yes.

The trouble with SMTP gateways, though, is that (a) messages can get held up for long periods in queues, with no timely notification of the delay to the system originating the page, and (b) if you can send mail to your pager, so can ten thousand evil spammers.

If the service only accepts email from particular MTA's - easy to arrange if it's only intended for use by one ISP's customers - the issues then become whether those MTA's are likely to relay enough spam to be a problem and whether the email address of a pager is much advertised (they usually aren't). All opinions mine only, of course. - Donald Neal Donald Neal |"I don't drink anything stronger Support Engineer |than Pop. But then, Pop will drink NGN Operations |anything." - Waldorf T. Flywheel Integration & Services Division +----------------------------------- Alcatel NZ Ltd - Telecom's network operations manager This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002.

I know all about this. Every time Telstra went down at an old workplace the uptime agent would send several hundred SMSes, all queued up on the local server while it waited for the link to come back up. The work cellphone was an old one and could only hold ten messages at once, so it took all day to receive and delete them. You knew the link had gone down in the night because all next day you'd hear BEEP*buzz*buzz* from our side of the room. The guy who replaced our system admin didn't like the SMS server notifications so he turned the work cellphone off permanently. One of the test page the agent used was then moved or deleted and it racked up $4k in SMS messages to his phone over a couple of weeks. *Justin Cook* Developer http://www.skull.co.nz/ *Skype* justincookskull skype:justincookskull?call My status skype:justincookskull?call Michael Jager wrote:

On 10/6/06 5:20 AM, Joe Abley wrote:

...

The trouble with SMTP gateways, though, is that (a) messages can get held up for long periods in queues, with no timely notification of the delay to the system originating the page, and (b) if you can send mail to your pager, so can ten thousand evil spammers.

The other thing to remember is that depending on your application, an SMTP gateway may not be reliably reachable.

If you're trying to page people when devices/providers/cables/whatever fail, the gateway wont receive the page if a cable/switch/router/media converter/provider between whatever's speaking SMTP on your network and the gateway has blown up.

Depends on your requirements, and this can be worked around anyway (two monitoring points, etc).

Michael

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Lol talk bout ripped off, there are hundreds of web api ones you can use and pay like $10 a month for unlimited sms's , nice research there buddy :)!!! -----Original Message----- From: Drew Whittle [mailto:drew(a)earthlight.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:00 p.m. To: NZNOG Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ? We've just been down this track at work. Until now we have been using the X.25 network to send out SMS alerts, but yesterday we received a nice little cellphone black box with a serial interface, you can use it to send and receive SMS messages and you talk to it using modem AT type commands. It's looking like a pretty good, and cheaper solution, and it will allow us to do more. I can't remember the brand/model off the top of my head, but I can look on Monday if people want to know. From memory the unit costs $700 to buy and then there is just the standard cost of sending SMS messages. Drew _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

Well you got bigger issues if your net is down then sending out an sms don't you think? ,besides what if one of the internal switches or routers died and you couldn't get to the serial sms it's the exact same situation the fact is your still paying a lot more for the same service. But hay try drill some more holes in the leaky boat eh.. -----Original Message----- From: Justin Cook [mailto:justin(a)skull.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:51 p.m. Cc: 'NZNOG' Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ? You realise the purpose of the device is to notify them if services go down, right? How are you going to use your remote service when there's no net access? 'lol :):):)' indeed. Justin Cook Developer http://www.skull.co.nz/ http://www.skull.co.nz/ http://www.skull.co.nz/skull.jpg Skype skype:justincookskull?call justincookskull skype:justincookskull?call My status VeNoMouS wrote: Lol talk bout ripped off, there are hundreds of web api ones you can use and pay like $10 a month for unlimited sms's , nice research there buddy :)!!! -----Original Message----- From: Drew Whittle [mailto:drew(a)earthlight.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:00 p.m. To: NZNOG Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ? We've just been down this track at work. Until now we have been using the X.25 network to send out SMS alerts, but yesterday we received a nice little cellphone black box with a serial interface, you can use it to send and receive SMS messages and you talk to it using modem AT type commands. It's looking like a pretty good, and cheaper solution, and it will allow us to do more. I can't remember the brand/model off the top of my head, but I can look on Monday if people want to know. From memory the unit costs $700 to buy and then there is just the standard cost of sending SMS messages. Drew _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

Ok then smart arse lets look @ it another way, old cell phone + interface cable + linux != $700, yet same solution, now stfu :P -----Original Message----- From: Michael Jager [mailto:mj(a)204.net.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 3:01 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ? VeNoMouS wrote:

Well you got bigger issues if your net is down then sending out an sms don't you think?

Indeed. A bigger issue like, well, trying to send a notification that "your net" is down. Using a web based SMS gateway Over your "broken net". Which probably wont work too well. Michael _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

On 6/10/06, VeNoMouS wrote:

Ok then smart arse lets look @ it another way, old cell phone + interface cable + linux != $700, yet same solution, now stfu :P

Ok, what about the massize interferance from the server farms/racks at the colo making your cellphone connectivity useless to start. Idealy you'd have redundant notification/monitoring systems - internal systems monitor along with monitoring general connectivy from a different network. Mark

Let me quote my last post for you Ok then smart arse lets look @ it another way, old cell phone + interface cable + linux != $700, yet same solution, now stfu :P NOW STFU -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Poole [mailto:matt(a)p00le.net] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 3:04 p.m. To: VeNoMouS Cc: 'NZNOG' Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ? Hey JJ, why don't you go and work for a company where it matters if services are up or down, then let us know how your boat's floating? SMS is a fairly common way of sending pages, since it's cheaper than getting a paging account through Telecom and then paying per page. That the device can be controlled by AT commands implies that it's a direct serial connection to a computer, so if that box is also the monitoring host the only thing that will stop it notifying of service or host failures is if it goes down itself. So, how's that leaky boat looking now? On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, VeNoMouS wrote:

Well you got bigger issues if your net is down then sending out an sms don't you think? ,besides what if one of the internal switches or routers died and you couldn't get to the serial sms it's the exact same situation the fact is your still paying a lot more for the same service.

But hay try drill some more holes in the leaky boat eh..

-----Original Message----- From: Justin Cook [mailto:justin(a)skull.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:51 p.m. Cc: 'NZNOG' Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ?

You realise the purpose of the device is to notify them if services go down, right? How are you going to use your remote service when there's no net access? 'lol :):):)' indeed.

Justin Cook Developer http://www.skull.co.nz/ http://www.skull.co.nz/

http://www.skull.co.nz/skull.jpg

Skype skype:justincookskull?call justincookskull

skype:justincookskull?call My status

VeNoMouS wrote:

Lol talk bout ripped off, there are hundreds of web api ones you can use and pay like $10 a month for unlimited sms's , nice research there buddy :)!!!

-----Original Message----- From: Drew Whittle [mailto:drew(a)earthlight.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:00 p.m. To: NZNOG Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ?

We've just been down this track at work.

Until now we have been using the X.25 network to send out SMS alerts, but yesterday we received a nice little cellphone black box with a serial interface, you can use it to send and receive SMS messages and you talk to it using modem AT type commands.

It's looking like a pretty good, and cheaper solution, and it will allow us to do more.

I can't remember the brand/model off the top of my head, but I can look on Monday if people want to know. From memory the unit costs $700 to buy and then there is just the standard cost of sending SMS messages.

Drew

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-- Matthew Poole "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."

VeNoMouS wrote:

Let me quote my last post for you

Ok then smart arse lets look @ it another way, old cell phone + interface cable + linux != $700, yet same solution, now stfu :P

I would not consider that bullet proof. I've personally tried to use an old cellphone + gnokii to deliver SMS, and found that 1. it couldn't deliver messages fast enough, 2. it wasn't reliable. Inexplicable lockups, failed deliveries, and the device disappearing were common. The other issue I've seen with cellular delivery mechanisms, whether via cellphone or dedicated device (which is an improvement over a phone), is sites were you can't emit radiation - think exchange sites where the GSM buzz might upset your copper - or you just aren't able to - datacenter is in the basement. An IP based combo can work for you: try to deliver via SMTP over your network at first. If that fails, have a dial on demand POTS modem to another ISP and send via SMTP that way, or fail-over to delivering to 026 via Pacnet with same POTS modem. Of course, this still doesn't address the reliability issue of SMS, on either telco. aj.

You can indeed get any old nokia for $30 from trademe and add a ttl > rs232 level shifter (another $15 or so) to talk AT commands directly to the phone over serial, which will quite easily let you send text messages. I must say however that I've tried using sms in the past for outage notification with great failure. Getting a server outage notice 6 hours after it actually happened is rather annoying, but that was vodafone, are telecom more reliable? Is that a question I even need to ask? -Jon Matthew Poole wrote:

Hey JJ, why don't you go and work for a company where it matters if services are up or down, then let us know how your boat's floating?

SMS is a fairly common way of sending pages, since it's cheaper than getting a paging account through Telecom and then paying per page. That the device can be controlled by AT commands implies that it's a direct serial connection to a computer, so if that box is also the monitoring host the only thing that will stop it notifying of service or host failures is if it goes down itself.

So, how's that leaky boat looking now?

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, VeNoMouS wrote:

...

Well you got bigger issues if your net is down then sending out an sms don't you think? ,besides what if one of the internal switches or routers died and you couldn't get to the serial sms it's the exact same situation the fact is your still paying a lot more for the same service.

But hay try drill some more holes in the leaky boat eh..

-----Original Message----- From: Justin Cook [mailto:justin(a)skull.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:51 p.m. Cc: 'NZNOG' Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ?

You realise the purpose of the device is to notify them if services go down, right? How are you going to use your remote service when there's no net access? 'lol :):):)' indeed.

Justin Cook Developer http://www.skull.co.nz/ http://www.skull.co.nz/

http://www.skull.co.nz/skull.jpg

Skype skype:justincookskull?call justincookskull

skype:justincookskull?call My status

VeNoMouS wrote:

Lol talk bout ripped off, there are hundreds of web api ones you can use and pay like $10 a month for unlimited sms's , nice research there buddy :)!!!

-----Original Message----- From: Drew Whittle [mailto:drew(a)earthlight.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:00 p.m. To: NZNOG Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ?

We've just been down this track at work.

Until now we have been using the X.25 network to send out SMS alerts, but yesterday we received a nice little cellphone black box with a serial interface, you can use it to send and receive SMS messages and you talk to it using modem AT type commands.

It's looking like a pretty good, and cheaper solution, and it will allow us to do more.

I can't remember the brand/model off the top of my head, but I can look on Monday if people want to know. From memory the unit costs $700 to buy and then there is just the standard cost of sending SMS messages.

Drew

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The only issues I have had with SMS delivery have been the weekend that Vodafone introduced Free TXT Weekends, and for a few weekends after that, and New Years Eve nights. They took up to 2 or 3 hours to get delivered (but eventually did get delivered), but normally they come through pretty quickly. (I have a GSM modem at home attached to a monitoring box using SMSTools) I had an old Nokia with the data cable, but found it to be a little unreliable, where gnokii would loose detection of the device and not deliver any messages, another trap with using a phone, is does the phone shut the power off once the battery is charged, and then start to drain the battery, but not restart the charger... Anyway, back to lurking... On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 15:26 +1200, Phillip Hutchings wrote:

On 6/10/06, Jon Keller wrote:

...

You can indeed get any old nokia for $30 from trademe and add a ttl > rs232 level shifter (another $15 or so) to talk AT commands directly to the phone over serial, which will quite easily let you send text messages. I must say however that I've tried using sms in the past for outage notification with great failure. Getting a server outage notice 6 hours after it actually happened is rather annoying, but that was vodafone, are telecom more reliable? Is that a question I even need to ask?

SMS is a 'best-effort' system. Your message goes to the SMS service centre and is forwarded at the network's convenience, or it may be dropped if the network is overloaded, just like IP. This is especially noticeable with international SMS gateways, which can only send to GSM networks, so Telecom is out. Oh, and lol lol lol :) :)

Pagers are generally on reliable networks. If you're really worried use a pager and dial out to them through a cellular network using a cellphone or some other device that supports it.

Generally you attach the serial SMS modem to the machine that is doing the system monitoring.. So even if an internal switch goes down, you still get the page.... With the monitoring service and the modem being on the same machine and all.... I would hate to be using your network VeNoMouS if you are going to soly rely on a Web based SMS delivery services, in a completely different country Nice DR solution you have.... On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 14:54 +1200, VeNoMouS wrote:

Well you got bigger issues if your net is down then sending out an sms don’t you think? ,besides what if one of the internal switches or routers died and you couldn’t get to the serial sms it’s the exact same situation the fact is your still paying a lot more for the same service.

But hay try drill some more holes in the leaky boat eh..

-----Original Message----- From: Justin Cook [mailto:justin(a)skull.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:51 p.m. Cc: 'NZNOG' Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ?

You realise the purpose of the device is to notify them if services go down, right? How are you going to use your remote service when there's no net access? 'lol :):):)' indeed.

Justin Cook Developer http://www.skull.co.nz/

Skype justincookskull

My status

VeNoMouS wrote:

Lol talk bout ripped off, there are hundreds of web api ones you can use and pay like $10 a month for unlimited sms's , nice research there buddy :)!!!

-----Original Message----- From: Drew Whittle [mailto:drew(a)earthlight.co.nz] Sent: Saturday, 10 June 2006 2:00 p.m. To: NZNOG Subject: Re: [nznog] Is there a Telecom paging tcp interface at all ?

We've just been down this track at work.

Until now we have been using the X.25 network to send out SMS alerts, but yesterday we received a nice little cellphone black box with a serial interface, you can use it to send and receive SMS messages and you talk to it using modem AT type commands.

It's looking like a pretty good, and cheaper solution, and it will allow us to do more.

I can't remember the brand/model off the top of my head, but I can look on Monday if people want to know. From memory the unit costs $700 to buy and then there is just the standard cost of sending SMS messages.

Drew

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I know of a company who sells "Siemens MC35 Terminals" for around $500, and they work really well.. (Will not advertise the company name, but if you are interested, please send me a note off list, and I will post a link to the New Zealand based company) <From the Website> "Suitable for use with terminal devices which support TCP/IP, e.g., a PDA or laptop computer. For GPRS applications where your equipment does not include IP support. * Supports full GSM functionality (circuit-switched data calls and SMS) as well as GPRS data." Although I have wondered, what happens in the "3G" world.. And this is probably sending this wildly off topic, but I would be keen for an answer, so if you know, could you post to me off list. If one was to buy such a unit, or, like in Vending Machines, Bank currency conversion signs, GPS location trackers in Cars and truck, in fact anything that uses one of these devices.. Will the GSM modules need to be replaced when / if Vodafone close down the 2g network, or does the 3g services continue to work on the same spectrum space, and those underlying services, SMS, data calls and so forth, continue to work even in that "brave new world of 3G". I guess this solution also provides you a way being able to access your network from a remote location, even if your fixed wire provider is down. One thing to note though:

From the Vodafone network, you are unable to send to the 026 pager network.

After talking to someone about this at work, he says, that its either a Vodafone issue not sending the packets to the 026 network or Telecom not allowing others to connect to the network.. (he could not remember exactly) Either way, from a CDMA / 027 unit (if you can find one of these, but there are not many out there, the "any-data" springs to mind, but something to note the linux tool kit "smstools" I don't think play nice with them) can page to the 026 network. I guess no mobile operators are on this list, but if there are, they might be able to shed some light as to why you are unable to send messages to the 026 network from Vodafone phones or perhaps look into the problem, and sort it out :) ..... On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 14:00 +1200, Drew Whittle wrote:

We've just been down this track at work.

Until now we have been using the X.25 network to send out SMS alerts, but yesterday we received a nice little cellphone black box with a serial interface, you can use it to send and receive SMS messages and you talk to it using modem AT type commands.

It's looking like a pretty good, and cheaper solution, and it will allow us to do more.

I can't remember the brand/model off the top of my head, but I can look on Monday if people want to know. From memory the unit costs $700 to buy and then there is just the standard cost of sending SMS messages.

Drew

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