Re: [nznog] Help block out China please.
A story along a similar line that reinforces this view:
I put a phone on public IP space a few weeks back, then got sidetracked while configuring it. Before I had even returned to enter a new admin password and the correct SIP details (only 1/2hr later!), the phone had already been attempting to dial out on it's own. Turns out a robot had found it on it's public IP with port 80 open and started issuing it dial commands before I even had a chance to go about locking it down.
It was unable to dial out as it hadn't had the correct SIP server or login details configured, but it just goes to show that the device really need to be locked down _before_ being put on any publicly accessible IP space, even if just for provisioning purposes!
Pete
On 8/12/2013, at 3:17 PM, "Dobbins, Roland"
On Dec 8, 2013, at 8:46 AM, Don Gould
wrote: Clearly you can't even put a quick and dirty box in place to just prove a concept without having to bolt it down.
Correct - it simply isn't viable to expose an unpatched/unsecured box to the Internet at all, due to all the automated scanning/hacking activities taking place.
+1 to the other folks who recommended more workable solutions - 'GeoIP' isn't exact at all, and not all bad nodes (of any nationality) are in China.
Roland Dobbins
Over 5 years ago SANS stated that the "Time To Own" for an unpatched
Windows box connected to raw Internet was around 4 minutes, although they
did admit that this would vary based on the network and other factors -
http://isc.sans.org/diary/Survival+Time+on+the+Internet/4721
Connecting *anything* to unfiltered Internet in order to configure it is
absolutely the wrong thing to do. Even if the config is only going to take
a few minutes, it's still asking for trouble.
Scott
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Pete Mundy
A story along a similar line that reinforces this view:
I put a phone on public IP space a few weeks back, then got sidetracked while configuring it. Before I had even returned to enter a new admin password and the correct SIP details (only 1/2hr later!), the phone had already been attempting to dial out on it's own. Turns out a robot had found it on it's public IP with port 80 open and started issuing it dial commands before I even had a chance to go about locking it down.
It was unable to dial out as it hadn't had the correct SIP server or login details configured, but it just goes to show that the device really need to be locked down _before_ being put on any publicly accessible IP space, even if just for provisioning purposes!
Pete
On 8/12/2013, at 3:17 PM, "Dobbins, Roland"
wrote: On Dec 8, 2013, at 8:46 AM, Don Gould
wrote: Clearly you can't even put a quick and dirty box in place to just prove
a concept without having to bolt it down.
Correct - it simply isn't viable to expose an unpatched/unsecured box to
the Internet at all, due to all the automated scanning/hacking activities taking place.
+1 to the other folks who recommended more workable solutions - 'GeoIP'
isn't exact at all, and not all bad nodes (of any nationality) are in China.
Roland Dobbins
_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
Scott Howard (scott) writes:
Connecting *anything* to unfiltered Internet in order to configure it is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Even if the config is only going to take a few minutes, it's still asking for trouble.
Conversely, connecting boxes protected only from active connection attempts doesn't buy you're talking about end user boxes. It's usually just a matter of days/weeks/months before said user downloads a trojan or similar. If you want to be certain not to get hacked, don't put it on the Internet :) P.
...If you want to be certain not to get hacked, don't put it on the Internet :) This does remind me of the "C2 Security" feature in Windows NT (yes, NT - since I can't recall seeing it after that). The final step was to disconnect the machine from the network :)
How do I download the current patch set for Windows 2012 R2 so I can apply it before putting the box on the network? This seems a bit chicken and egg. (And yes I agree this really is a Geekzone or Whirlpool type question now, but I'm a bit interested in what advice operators are keen for us to be dishing to folk.) Beer. D On 8/12/2013 4:36 p.m., Pete Mundy wrote:
locked down_before_ being put on any publicly accessible IP space -- Don Gould 31 Acheson Ave Mairehau Christchurch, New Zealand Ph: + 64 3 348 7235 Mobile: + 64 21 114 0699 Ph: +61 3 9111 1821 (Melb)
I'M COLLECTING COFFEE CUPS FOR PROJECT COFFEE CUP.
Deja vue (missing the French accent mark) - literally means already seen, that sense of haven't we been here before.
You attach the box to your NAT'd internal dev network and apply patches that way; if you're it so irregularly that don't have an imaging system. With the on-by-default, block-inbound-by-default firewall on the box doing its thing into the bargain.
Don Gould
How do I download the current patch set for Windows 2012 R2 so I can apply it before putting the box on the network?
This seems a bit chicken and egg.
(And yes I agree this really is a Geekzone or Whirlpool type question now, but I'm a bit interested in what advice operators are keen for us to be dishing to folk.)
Beer.
D
On 8/12/2013 4:36 p.m., Pete Mundy wrote:
locked down_before_ being put on any publicly accessible IP space -- Don Gould 31 Acheson Ave Mairehau Christchurch, New Zealand Ph: + 64 3 348 7235 Mobile: + 64 21 114 0699 Ph: +61 3 9111 1821 (Melb)
I'M COLLECTING COFFEE CUPS FOR PROJECT COFFEE CUP.
Deja vue (missing the French accent mark) - literally means already seen, that sense of haven't we been here before.
NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
-- Matthew Poole "The difference between theory and practice is that practice is much easier in theory than theory is in practice."
On Dec 8, 2013, at 3:59 PM, Don Gould
How do I download the current patch set for Windows 2012 R2 so I can apply it before putting the box on the network?
From behind a stateful firewall or NAT, as noted previously (they're fine for clients, just not for servers)
wget works quite nicely, as well.
;>
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Roland Dobbins
On Mon 09 Dec 2013 01:14:34 NZDT +1300, Dobbins, Roland wrote:
wget works quite nicely, as well.
In theory, yes. In practice you have to trackdown a download URL first which can be a waste of time, and then it has to work without deep link protection or you waste even more time. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header. http://volker.top.geek.nz/ Please do not CC list postings to me.
Hopefully you nuked the box after the bad stuff was found, since you can't trust that box any more Windows has a firewall that is on by default, but it sounds like the Remote Desktop service was turned on and the firewall opened Presumably a default account was used (administrator?) with a weak password If you really want to expose RDP natively on the internet without a VPN, Some best practices here: Rename administrator account Create another account you are actually going to use Consider changing the default RDP port 3389 (hardly security here as its still easy to find) Enforce encryption RDP using TLS Enforce NLA (Network Level Authentication) -----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Don Gould Sent: Sunday, 8 December 2013 10:00 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Help block out China please. How do I download the current patch set for Windows 2012 R2 so I can apply it before putting the box on the network? This seems a bit chicken and egg. (And yes I agree this really is a Geekzone or Whirlpool type question now, but I'm a bit interested in what advice operators are keen for us to be dishing to folk.) Beer. D On 8/12/2013 4:36 p.m., Pete Mundy wrote:
locked down_before_ being put on any publicly accessible IP space -- Don Gould 31 Acheson Ave Mairehau Christchurch, New Zealand Ph: + 64 3 348 7235 Mobile: + 64 21 114 0699 Ph: +61 3 9111 1821 (Melb)
I'M COLLECTING COFFEE CUPS FOR PROJECT COFFEE CUP.
Deja vue (missing the French accent mark) - literally means already seen, that sense of haven't we been here before.
NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
On Dec 9, 2013, at 1:33 AM, Nathan Mercer
If you really want to expose RDP natively on the internet without a VPN, Some best practices here: Rename administrator account Create another account you are actually going to use Consider changing the default RDP port 3389 (hardly security here as its still easy to find) Enforce encryption RDP using TLS Enforce NLA (Network Level Authentication)
This is asking for a DDoS as all the various bots find your box and start hammering away at it . . .
;>
RDP simply shouldn't be exposed to the Internet.
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Roland Dobbins
participants (9)
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Dobbins, Roland
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Don Gould
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Matthew Poole
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Nathan Mercer
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Pete Mundy
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Phil Regnauld
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Pieter De Wit
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Scott Howard
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Volker Kuhlmann