NZNOG People, Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any. If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Administrator --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
:: NZNOG People, :: :: Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of :: spamming by :: one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these :: references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective :: employers who look up his name on the web find these archive :: entries, a :: fact which may not be helping his career any. :: :: If any network operator has an objection to these entries :: being removed :: from the archive, could they please contact me directly. Heh... spamming pays eh? Maybe if Mr Angelo had the courtesy to apologise for his spamming? -- Juha --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
At 11:26 17/07/2001 +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
:: NZNOG People, :: :: Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of :: spamming by :: one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these :: references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective :: employers who look up his name on the web find these archive :: entries, a :: fact which may not be helping his career any. :: :: If any network operator has an objection to these entries :: being removed :: from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
Heh... spamming pays eh?
Maybe if Mr Angelo had the courtesy to apologise for his spamming?
I agree with this call. I had discussoins with Mr Angelo when he was abusing I4free for said spammage - I lost count of the number of accounts he opened, abused, and had closed by myself and other people doing the abuse systems in my absense. I think we owe Mr Angelo nothing - removing references to his conduct from the archives is an act of kindness (history is, afterall, history) -- So I should think a decent apology to the service providers whos services he abused is the least he could do. :) Mark. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity. You don't see me getting things whipped out of the archives everytime I put my foot in it do you (Oops there goes another one =) ) On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question. Dean On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:26:56AM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
:: NZNOG People, :: :: Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of :: spamming by :: one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these :: references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective :: employers who look up his name on the web find these archive :: entries, a :: fact which may not be helping his career any. :: :: If any network operator has an objection to these entries :: being removed :: from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
Heh... spamming pays eh?
Maybe if Mr Angelo had the courtesy to apologise for his spamming?
-- Juha
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A person opening their mouth and having ten feet crammed into it almost immediately should learn to keep their mouth closed. Anyone observing this feat will also learn the benefit of exercising an intimate and personal silence, and, a lesson about whomever offered themselves up as the example. And I agree. An archive, is an archive. On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity. You don't see me getting things whipped out of the archives everytime I put my foot in it do you (Oops there goes another one =) )
On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question.
Dean
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:26:56AM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
:: NZNOG People, :: :: Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of :: spamming by :: one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these :: references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective :: employers who look up his name on the web find these archive :: entries, a :: fact which may not be helping his career any. :: :: If any network operator has an objection to these entries :: being removed :: from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
Heh... spamming pays eh?
Maybe if Mr Angelo had the courtesy to apologise for his spamming?
-- Juha
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Is it defamation when its true? This has always been my question. :P At 11:48 17/07/2001 +1200, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity. You don't see me getting things whipped out of the archives everytime I put my foot in it do you (Oops there goes another one =) )
On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question.
-.-. --.- Mark Foster - markf(a)intermech.co.nz IT Manager, Intermech Ltd +64-21-499-368 / +64-9-525-2220 http://www.intermech.co.nz --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
The truth can only be established AFTER the court case =) On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:56:29AM +1200, Mark Foster wrote:
Is it defamation when its true? This has always been my question. :P
At 11:48 17/07/2001 +1200, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity. You don't see me getting things whipped out of the archives everytime I put my foot in it do you (Oops there goes another one =) )
On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question.
-.-. --.- Mark Foster - markf(a)intermech.co.nz IT Manager, Intermech Ltd +64-21-499-368 / +64-9-525-2220 http://www.intermech.co.nz
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Dean Pemberton wrote:
The truth can only be established AFTER the court case =)
from bitter personal experience, truth has nothing to do with court cases, which are more about buying the best lawyers. I'd be very dubious about altering an archive, you could open yourself to all sorts of actions from others. As the man said.... maybe he should not have done it in the first place..... and let it be a warning to others... R
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:56:29AM +1200, Mark Foster wrote:
Is it defamation when its true? This has always been my question. :P
At 11:48 17/07/2001 +1200, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity. You don't see me getting things whipped out of the archives everytime I put my foot in it do you (Oops there goes another one =) )
On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question.
-.-. --.- Mark Foster - markf(a)intermech.co.nz IT Manager, Intermech Ltd +64-21-499-368 / +64-9-525-2220 http://www.intermech.co.nz
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-- \_ Roger De Salis Cisco Systems NZ Ltd
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:27:57PM +1200, Roger De Salis wrote: from bitter personal experience, truth has nothing to do with court cases, which are more about buying the best lawyers. Since this came up... I've been told that you can be sued (and found guilty) for defamation even when telling the truth in NZ. Anyone know if this is indeed the case or not? --cw --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
I have no knowledge of any ruling in the case. (But I admit to paying more attention to sales than buffoonz...) R Chris Wedgwood wrote:
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:27:57PM +1200, Roger De Salis wrote:
from bitter personal experience, truth has nothing to do with court cases, which are more about buying the best lawyers.
Since this came up... I've been told that you can be sued (and found guilty) for defamation even when telling the truth in NZ. Anyone know if this is indeed the case or not?
--cw
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-- \_ Roger De Salis Cisco Systems NZ Ltd
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity.
I'm afraid I agree with this. As said before.. "an archive is after all.. an archive". Removing history is bad business. Prospective employers have a right to know if one of thier canidates has had a checkered past and removing the articles also removes the rights of employers to know about what he's been up to in the past. Could it be that *gasp* he shouldn't have done what he did in the first place.. then he wouldn't be having these problems?
On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question.
I don't know if any of the entries could be described as fully defamatory as they do relate to real events and real things he did. Chris Rigby Senior Systems Engineer IHUG - Into the Internet --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity. You don't see me getting things whipped out of the archives everytime I put my foot in it do you (Oops there goes another one =) )
On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question.
Given the easily verified and copiously documented incidences of spamming from Mr Angelo, the retention of these archives is neither defamatory or slanderous. -- Matthew Poole "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?" --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
OK OK OK OK a) Thanks (seriously) to all the people who have mailed me privatly and told me that it's not defamation if it's true. b) Please stop now c) Please remove my post from the archives (only joking) I did already know that My point was a dig at recent isocnz events - not a forcast of how I saw actual events. Thanks On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:07:45PM +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Yeah - although the archives should be an accurate representation of what went on on this list. If you let people monkey with it then it looses its integrity. You don't see me getting things whipped out of the archives everytime I put my foot in it do you (Oops there goes another one =) )
On the other hand if you don't do it then he could always get some monopoly to fund a defamation action against the people in question.
Given the easily verified and copiously documented incidences of spamming from Mr Angelo, the retention of these archives is neither defamatory or slanderous.
-- Matthew Poole
"Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?"
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Donald Neal wrote:
references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any.
I'm sure theres a lesson there. f33r the far-reaching p0w3rz of NZNOG! United by the power of IP, we shall form Voltron and smite the career prospects of spammers and script kiddies with our flaming LARTting tool of justice! :) --- Matt Camp --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
At 11:16 AM +1200 17/7/01, Donald Neal wrote:
NZNOG People,
Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any.
If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
An interesting point. The image of 'Memory Holes' sprang instantly to mind. While the article below is rather extreme (http://www.thefire.org/offsite/data/mcelroy042000.html) it does make the point that an archive is supposed to be, well, an archive. -- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
:: An interesting point. The image of 'Memory Holes' sprang :: instantly to mind. :: :: While the article below is rather extreme :: (http://www.thefire.org/offsite/data/mcelroy042000.html) it :: does make :: the point that an archive is supposed to be, well, an archive. Good point. I think that "sanitising" archives might set an unfortunate precedent, but ultimately, it's up to the listadmin to decide. However, even if the messages referring to Mr Angelo were expunged from the archives, haven't they been stored elsewhere? I seem to remember that Google spiders NZNOG... hang on... yep, so it does. In fact, a Google search on "Julian Angelo" reveals plenty more than just NZNOG... see for yourself. I think he's just going to have to live with his fifteen seconds of Internet infamy. -- Juha --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:44:25AM +1200, Michael Newbery wrote:
An interesting point. The image of 'Memory Holes' sprang instantly to mind.
While the article below is rather extreme (http://www.thefire.org/offsite/data/mcelroy042000.html) it does make the point that an archive is supposed to be, well, an archive.
Yeah this is a really good point. I have a copy of the existing archive which I'm happy to post up on the net if anyone needs a copy with no amnesia =) Dean --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Donald Neal wrote:
NZNOG People,
Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any.
If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
As someone who had to deal with the results of Mr Angelo's actions, I have very little sympathy for him. None, in fact.
From memory, over 30 accounts with i4free were created by this man and subsequently closed. At no point did he cease his spamming, rather he created new accounts every time we closed others. In the end we found his "master" account and closed it, which seemed to have the desired effect.
Personally, I think that you should leave the archives alone unless he's prepared to actually offer a sincere apology in a major public forum. -- Matthew Poole "Ever wondered why cemetaries raise the cost of burials then blame it on the cost of living?" --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:55 +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Personally, I think that you should leave the archives alone unless he's prepared to actually offer a sincere apology in a major public forum.
Would it not suffice for Mr Angelo to publish an apology here on NZNOG, thus when prospective employers discover his chequered past, they will also discover his contrition. Nothing need be removed, obscured, hidden, or denied. In fact it may enhance his reputation in the nature of the prodigal. Hamish. -- Naked Truth: The fable says that Truth and Falsehood went bathing; Falsehood came first out of the water, and dressed herself in Truth's garments. Truth, unwilling to take those of Falsehood, went naked. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
hear hear! Following Juha's example I threw Julian Angelo into Google - he's sure managed to land on some interesting mailing lists worldwide.. I quote: Vertuacom in no way supports the bad practise of spamming; we stand for responsible direct mail i.e. mails targeted towards a select group. Many businesses and corporations have been put off using e-mail as a marketing tool, as spammers have tarnished its image. Many irresponsible bulk mailers have sent out large amounts of mail to people whom they know nothing about. These companies have not tried to mail to those who would have any interest in their products or services, but have merely sent there mailings out blindly. Also hyped up bogus offers and pornography have given people a bad image of the direct mail industry. Every piece of mail we send out is given the option of being removed from our database, as we have done in this mailing to you, at the bottom of the page see removal instructions. This is called responsible Direct mail. *grins* If Julian has *stopped* abusing our networks, and realises that hes been a bad netizen, and makes his apologies.. then I think the general consensus so far appears to be that the archives are left as they are - archives are archives - and it is recorded in our archives that Julian has realised his wrongdoings. The question is - Has he? :) Mark. At 12:20 17/07/2001 +1200, Hamish MacEwan wrote:
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:55 +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Personally, I think that you should leave the archives alone unless he's prepared to actually offer a sincere apology in a major public forum.
Would it not suffice for Mr Angelo to publish an apology here on NZNOG, thus when prospective employers discover his chequered past, they will also discover his contrition.
Nothing need be removed, obscured, hidden, or denied.
In fact it may enhance his reputation in the nature of the prodigal.
Hamish.
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:: Would it not suffice for Mr Angelo to publish an apology :: here on NZNOG, thus when prospective employers discover his :: chequered past, they will also discover his contrition. http://www.datasync.com/~mbowie/archive29.html -- read a bit of that... seems the NZNOG archives are the least of Mr Angelo's worries. -- Juha --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Hmmmm If he's into that stuff then maybe he might appreciate the irony in this one Proverbs 26:6 One who sends a message by the hand of a fool Is cutting off feet and drinking violence. Seems to sum up this spam situation rather well I thought. Thanks to the person who bought this to my attention On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:33:18PM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
:: Would it not suffice for Mr Angelo to publish an apology :: here on NZNOG, thus when prospective employers discover his :: chequered past, they will also discover his contrition.
http://www.datasync.com/~mbowie/archive29.html
-- read a bit of that... seems the NZNOG archives are the least of Mr Angelo's worries.
-- Juha
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Hmmmm If he's into that stuff then maybe he might appreciate the irony in this one
Proverbs 26:6 One who sends a message by the hand of a fool Is cutting off feet and drinking violence.
What? You're making that one up. -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Nope - That was the Revised Standard version Here is the King James version [Prov 26:6] He that sendeth a message by the hand of a fool cutteth off the feet, and drinketh damage And here is the latin version [Prov 26:6] claudus pedibus et iniquitatem bibens qui mittit verba per nuntium stultum Have a look at http://www.stg.brown.edu/templates/pbcgi?sourceform=pbeasy.shtml&maxhits=50&boolop=and&searchstring=Proverbs+26%3A6&searchtype=fetch&version=rsv&corpus=all if you want proof =) On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:49:27PM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Hmmmm If he's into that stuff then maybe he might appreciate the irony in this one
Proverbs 26:6 One who sends a message by the hand of a fool Is cutting off feet and drinking violence.
What? You're making that one up.
-- Regards,
Juha
PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544
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Ah ha - Yeah and employers are looking at NZNOG and making their decision. I wonder how many of them say the comments in his online photo album =) http://guestbooks.fotki.com/julian001/public/ On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 12:33:18PM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
-- read a bit of that... seems the NZNOG archives are the least of Mr Angelo's worries.
-- Juha
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I wonder how many of them say the comments in his online photo album =)
I think those are in refrence to his, then, Girlfriend. The one of the prayer fame I belive. :) Seems she was a popular girl ;) Chris Rigby Senior Systems Engineer IHUG - Into the Internet --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Ah ha - Yeah and employers are looking at NZNOG and making their decision.
I wonder how many of them say the comments in his online photo album =)
This is getting better by the minute. Maybe he could become the poster child of the anti-spam campaigners? -- Andrew P. Gardner barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP? We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare? Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Maybe he could become the poster child of the anti-spam campaigners?
Personally, I would question the chaps integrity first based on the spamming and prayer crap, both lead to the conclusion that he's an unstable element, so employers are making their own robust conclusions. Also, guys (and gals,) IANAL, but the best know defence on defamation is *NOT* the "truth", but informing the public for the public's good. Every media outlet when dragged into court brings out this one, and I would say that the archives of this list form a very important role in keeping the public informed and protected from harm, don't you? --- Terence C. Giufre-Sweetser +---------------------------------+--------------------------+ | TereDonn Telecommunications Ltd | Phone +61-[0]7-32369366 | | 1/128 Bowen St, SPRING HILL | FAX +61-[0]7-32369930 | | PO BOX 1054, SPRING HILL 4004 | Mobile +61-[0]414-663053 | | Queensland Australia | http://www.tdce.com.au | +---------------------------------+--------------------------+ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Good grief!! You know Juha, you really have too much free time... :-)
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Juha Saarinen Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2001 12:33 To: 'Hamish MacEwan'; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: Julian Angelo
:: Would it not suffice for Mr Angelo to publish an apology :: here on NZNOG, thus when prospective employers discover his :: chequered past, they will also discover his contrition.
http://www.datasync.com/~mbowie/archive29.html
-- read a bit of that... seems the NZNOG archives are the least of Mr Angelo's worries.
-- Juha
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No, I wish I had... I'm too easily distracted though. -- :: -----Original Message----- :: From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith :: Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2001 13:09 :: To: Juha Saarinen; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: Subject: RE: Julian Angelo :: :: :: Good grief!! :: :: You know Juha, you really have too much free time... :-) --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Now lets hope no future employers read that post ;) On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:
No, I wish I had... I'm too easily distracted though.
--
:: -----Original Message----- :: From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith :: Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2001 13:09 :: To: Juha Saarinen; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: Subject: RE: Julian Angelo :: :: :: Good grief!! :: :: You know Juha, you really have too much free time... :-)
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The existing ones are more of a worry. -- :: -----Original Message----- :: From: Neil Fenemor [mailto:neil(a)ts.co.nz] :: Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2001 13:33 :: To: Juha Saarinen :: Cc: gordons(a)morenet.net.nz; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: Subject: RE: Julian Angelo :: :: :: Now lets hope no future employers read that post ;) :: :: :: On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote: :: :: > No, I wish I had... I'm too easily distracted though. :: > :: > -- :: > :: > :: > :: -----Original Message----- :: > :: From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: > :: [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of :: Gordon Smith :: > :: Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2001 13:09 :: > :: To: Juha Saarinen; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: > :: Subject: RE: Julian Angelo :: > :: :: > :: :: > :: Good grief!! :: > :: :: > :: You know Juha, you really have too much free time... :-) :: > :: > --------- :: > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to :: majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: > where the body of your message reads: :: > unsubscribe nznog :: > :: :: :: --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
It strikes me as amusing that after all of todays traffic, there is going to be a whole lot more to see when searching for his name. Unless of course this thread is struck from the archive as well. I tend to agree that an archive is an archive. Good, Bad and otherwise. My 2c worth. Craig. Hamish MacEwan wrote:
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:55 +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:
Personally, I think that you should leave the archives alone unless he's prepared to actually offer a sincere apology in a major public forum.
Would it not suffice for Mr Angelo to publish an apology here on NZNOG, thus when prospective employers discover his chequered past, they will also discover his contrition.
Nothing need be removed, obscured, hidden, or denied.
In fact it may enhance his reputation in the nature of the prodigal.
Hamish.
-- Naked Truth: The fable says that Truth and Falsehood went bathing; Falsehood came first out of the water, and dressed herself in Truth's garments. Truth, unwilling to take those of Falsehood, went naked. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, Jul 17, 2001 at 11:16:01AM +1200, Donald Neal wrote: Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any. If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly. One of the great (?) things about the 'net, is that things seem to go into it, and stay around potentially forever. You can delete this stuff from the archive if you wish, but other references (non nznog) will exist elsewhere (I checked). For a strange eerie example of 'net longevity, check out old Usenet postings that Google acquired from Deja', search for yourselves (or Patrick Dunford). Freaky stuff, I was such a git no so long ago (well, even more of a git than I am now). I don't think this will haunt him anyhow, anyone remember the name of the person who sent porn to the list a while back OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD? Yes or no answers suffice. What about the name of the poor woman who's comments about oral sex sent to a lawyer somewhere in the UK were forwarded on to a few people? How about the name of the US business man who was busted for not having enough weed to share with customs during the America's Cup? Let face it, people have short memories, if they didn't, nobody would vote. As an interesting exercise, you can also try to 'change history' by silently change contents of web-sites and such for which there aren't millions of copies floating about, and if you website is the most linked to, things like google will but your content at the top of the list, with all the older-stuff at the bottom. The UK Labour government effectively did this when they got into power by reversing their stance of various issues all so quietly. Really, whether he apologizes or not, removing the content defeats the purpose of archives. If you must delete them, the please remove _ALL_ of the archives, I would rather have no archives than acrhives distort reality. --cw (who has his own archives anyhow...) --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On 17 Jul 2001, at 11:16, Donald Neal wrote:
Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo.
This predates my subscription.
He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive.
Archives are archives. However, I myself have amended my own list archives (adsl(a)unixathome.org) on two occasions: 1 - remove a password posted to the list 2 - remove an email address of a person who was being stalked In neither case was a message removed. Alterations were done in such as way as to be obvious it was done. Unfortunately, Julian doesn't fall into the catergory of password or stalkee. Removal of said messages would vastly alter the archives. My personal view is that he did it, he knows he did it, asking for them to be removed acknowledges he did it. The messages were posted. They are part of the archive. Too bad Julian.
It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any.
I say she should post a apology here. But the archive should remain.
If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
My network is slightly smaller than most, and I don't carry much influence. History amendment is quite beyond the scope of this list. cheers from Ottawa... -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan(a)unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On 16 Jul 2001, at 23:51, Dan Langille wrote:
I say she should post a apology here. But the archive should remain.
Please amend the archives to "he". -- Dan Langille pgpkey - finger dan(a)unixathome.org | http://unixathome.org/finger.php --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Dan Langille wrote:
On 16 Jul 2001, at 23:51, Dan Langille wrote:
I say she should post a apology here. But the archive should remain.
Please amend the archives to "he".
ROFL! -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Archives are archives. However, I myself have amended my own list archives (adsl(a)unixathome.org) on two occasions:
1 - remove a password posted to the list 2 - remove an email address of a person who was being stalked
In neither case was a message removed. Alterations were done in such as way as to be obvious it was done.
The only time we have ever removed a message from a list archive is when some plonker posted specific instructions on how to exploit a security issue and gain unauthorised access to one of our servers. I think things have got to be pretty bad before a list admin considers erasing history. Peter Mott Chief Enthusiast 2day.com -/- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Donald and all, Although I am not what is termed a "Network Operator", removal of these archives per request is inappropriate at best... Donald Neal wrote:
NZNOG People,
Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any.
If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Administrator
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1800 x1894 or 214-244-4827 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
As someone once said " A man that wants to change history will make the same mistakes in the future, History is a powerful weapon to change ones destiny " Now if only I could remember who said that , Someone who know what they were doing. Matthew G Brown Wireless Network Specialist Tasman Solutions LTD Http://www.ts.co.nz -----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Jeff Williams Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2001 5:01 p.m. To: Donald Neal Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Julian Angelo Donald and all, Although I am not what is termed a "Network Operator", removal of these archives per request is inappropriate at best... Donald Neal wrote:
NZNOG People,
Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any.
If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Administrator
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1800 x1894 or 214-244-4827 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Matthew and all, Your right I believe. Also though, those that refuse to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat them... Matthew G Brown wrote:
As someone once said
" A man that wants to change history will make the same mistakes in the future, History is a powerful weapon to change ones destiny "
Now if only I could remember who said that , Someone who know what they were doing.
Matthew G Brown Wireless Network Specialist Tasman Solutions LTD Http://www.ts.co.nz
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Jeff Williams Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2001 5:01 p.m. To: Donald Neal Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Julian Angelo
Donald and all,
Although I am not what is termed a "Network Operator", removal of these archives per request is inappropriate at best...
Donald Neal wrote:
NZNOG People,
Just over a year ago, there was discussion on this list of spamming by one Julian Angelo. He has now approached me, asking to have these references removed from the NZNOG archive. It seems that prospective employers who look up his name on the web find these archive entries, a fact which may not be helping his career any.
If any network operator has an objection to these entries being removed from the archive, could they please contact me directly.
Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Administrator
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Regards,
-- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1800 x1894 or 214-244-4827 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Regards, -- Jeffrey A. Williams Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 118k members strong!) CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng. Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC. E-Mail jwkckid1(a)ix.netcom.com Contact Number: 972-447-1800 x1894 or 214-244-4827 Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
participants (21)
-
Andy Gardner -
Chris Rigby -
Chris Wedgwood -
Craig Reynolds -
Dan Langille -
Dean Pemberton -
Donald Neal -
Gordon Smith -
Hamish MacEwan -
Jeff Williams -
Juha Saarinen -
Mark Foster -
Matt Camp -
Matthew G Brown -
Matthew Poole -
Michael Newbery -
Neil Fenemor -
Peter Mott -
Roger De Salis -
Terence -
Tim Shackleton