Re: [nznog] ISP's Natting customer pools
Given the relative sizes of ISPs, it's probably also true to say "most DSL netizens use xtra".
Them's fighting words... or they would be if I was in the marketing dept. Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru? -Martin -- Martin D Kealey, ihüg engineering
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru?
A Cisco 827/837/... will do IPV6 natively (also do 6to4 etc). I think also Allied Telesync will do it (never tested). No other routers I've found will do it. Thanks
On 2/21/07, Craig Whitmore
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru?
A Cisco 827/837/... will do IPV6 natively (also do 6to4 etc). I think also Allied Telesync will do it (never tested). No other routers I've found will do it.
Certainly the consumer level DSE/DLink/Linksys haven't included it by default in the boxes I've seen. Creates a bit of an obstacle for users - "What do you mean I need to spend $x00 to keep using the net?" Ian -- Web: http://wand.net.nz/~iam4 Blog: http://iansblog.jandi.co.nz WAND Network Research Group
Martin Kealey wrote:
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru?
I'm not aware of any consumer level external devices that support v6. Although I imagine it's the sort of thing that could be fixed with a firmware update when necessary. Dick Smith sells an internal PCI ADSL Card (XH1137) for $35 which when combined with an appropriate operating system (eg Linux) has no problems at all supporting v6. Cheers -- Matt Brown matt(a)mattb.net.nz Mob +64 21 611 544 www.mattb.net.nz
On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 11:55 +1300, Matt Brown wrote:
Martin Kealey wrote:
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru?
I'm not aware of any consumer level external devices that support v6. Although I imagine it's the sort of thing that could be fixed with a firmware update when necessary.
Dick Smith sells an internal PCI ADSL Card (XH1137) for $35 which when combined with an appropriate operating system (eg Linux) has no problems at all supporting v6.
I'm going to try installing OpenWRT on a DSL-502T pretty soonish which will support IPv6. But that won't do translation, it should support 6to4 (except I don't have a fixed IP...). If it does work then that'll be rather useful as the DSL-502T's are available pretty cheaply on TradeMe at the moment... Cheers! -- Andrew Ruthven, Wellington, New Zealand At home: andrew(a)etc.gen.nz | This space intentionally | left blank.
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development
All of the little Cisco routers have supported this for many years. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Brown [mailto:matt(a)mattb.net.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 21 February 2007 11:55 a.m. To: Martin Kealey Cc: nznog Subject: Re: [nznog] ISP's Natting customer pools Martin Kealey wrote: that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru? I'm not aware of any consumer level external devices that support v6. Although I imagine it's the sort of thing that could be fixed with a firmware update when necessary. Dick Smith sells an internal PCI ADSL Card (XH1137) for $35 which when combined with an appropriate operating system (eg Linux) has no problems at all supporting v6. Cheers -- Matt Brown matt(a)mattb.net.nz Mob +64 21 611 544 www.mattb.net.nz
Matt Brown wrote:
Martin Kealey wrote:
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru?
I'm not aware of any consumer level external devices that support v6. Although I imagine it's the sort of thing that could be fixed with a firmware update when necessary.
Dick Smith sells an internal PCI ADSL Card (XH1137) for $35 which when combined with an appropriate operating system (eg Linux) has no problems at all supporting v6.
Presumably USB DSL modems also rely on the host to terminate the PPP connection, so if the host supports v6 then they should work too.
On 2/21/07, Perry Lorier
Presumably USB DSL modems also rely on the host to terminate the PPP connection, so if the host supports v6 then they should work too.
You would also be dependent on the vendor supplying updated drivers as well I presume. Linux should be trivial but on other OSes it might be a lost hope as is hoping for firmware upgrades on other boxes unless you roll your own with OpenWRT or equivalent. I think the option most users (not educated ones) will take will be to go get a new "Internet box" from their ISP or the PC shop. Ian -- Web: http://wand.net.nz/~iam4 Blog: http://iansblog.jandi.co.nz WAND Network Research Group
Martin Kealey wrote:
Given the relative sizes of ISPs, it's probably also true to say "most DSL netizens use xtra".
Them's fighting words... or they would be if I was in the marketing dept.
Well having had some experience dealing with ADSL issues, I'd say that if you have DSL you have it going through a telephone network. Either that infrastructure is provided by Telecom or Telstra (who I beleive have a DSL offering these days, but I know nothing of it). If its through Telecom phone lines and your ISP is anything other than Xtra, then when you have problems any fault report is likely to get you into a runaround with the ISP blaming the Telecom lines and Telecom blaming the ISP. It can take a while to get either of them to acknowledge responsibility or even to talk to one another to figure out where the problem is. Well, it did a couple of years ago... have things improved? Even if your ISP is Xtra its still problematic, but nowhere near as bad as if you have a different ISP.
On 21/2/07 11:57 AM, "Steve Wray"
Martin Kealey wrote:
Given the relative sizes of ISPs, it's probably also true to say "most DSL netizens use xtra".
Them's fighting words... or they would be if I was in the marketing dept.
Well having had some experience dealing with ADSL issues, I'd say that if you have DSL you have it going through a telephone network. Either that infrastructure is provided by Telecom or Telstra (who I beleive have a DSL offering these days, but I know nothing of it).
Apart from the UBS based product (PDQ), TelstraClear has had its own on-net ADSL for years, since the days of CLEAR in fact. It's a business only product though. And, to be pedantic, there are other DSL products, such as HDSL, but they are business only as well. -- Michael Newbery IP Architect TelstraClear Limited
On 20-Feb-2007, at 17:16, Martin Kealey wrote:
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru?
In practical terms (and I'm being only slightly pedantic) there *is* no v6 to v4 translation. There are tunnels, and there is native IPv6. Macs have been able to turn on 6to4 (which is a automatic tunnelling mechanism, and not any kind of v6/v4 translation scheme) with a relatively minor amount of clicking for a few years now, with no additional software to install. It's not on by default, and it's sufficiently well-hidden that no normal Mac user is likely to configure it by accident, but it's there. Similarly, *BSD has had 6to4 shipping in the default install for a long time (man stf). I don't know about Linux, but people keep telling me how great and wonderful it is, so surely they must have had 6to4 built-in for MUCH LONGER THAN FREEBSD LOLZzz!1!1!! etc. With Vista shipping with 6to4 support, that sounds to me like pretty much everybody who wants to play with v6 can do so without buying anything. Well, once everybody upgrades to Vista, on account of how great it is, etc. The comment about 6to4 only being enabled on Vista if there's no NAT in the path is interesting. How does Vista know if you're behind a NAT? Does it do active probes, or does it just assume that everything behind a NAT must be numbered in RFC1918 space? Joe
The comment about 6to4 only being enabled on Vista if there's no NAT in the path is interesting. How does Vista know if you're behind a NAT? Does it do active probes, or does it just assume that everything behind a NAT must be numbered in RFC1918 space?
It does probes to a Teredo server I believe. 6to4 only works if you know your realworld address, and only one box behind NAT can recieve protocol 41 packets (there are no port numbers), which is why I believe vista isn't using 6to4 if you're behind NAT.
On 21/2/07 3:37 PM, "Joe Abley"
On 20-Feb-2007, at 17:16, Martin Kealey wrote:
Question: are there any (DSL?) CPE units for sale or in development that will do v6 to v4 translation, plus v6 pass-thru?
In practical terms (and I'm being only slightly pedantic) there *is* no v6 to v4 translation. There are tunnels, and there is native IPv6.
Macs have been able to turn on 6to4 (which is a automatic tunnelling mechanism, and not any kind of v6/v4 translation scheme) with a relatively minor amount of clicking for a few years now, with no additional software to install. It's not on by default, and it's sufficiently well-hidden that no normal Mac user is likely to configure it by accident, but it's there.
And of course, normal IPv6 is enabled by default, at least since 10.3, so every interface has a link-local at least, and will acquire a global IPv6 address if available. Furthermore, most(?)/some applications use IPv6 preferentially, such as Safari and Terminal.
Similarly, *BSD has had 6to4 shipping in the default install for a long time (man stf).
I don't know about Linux, but people keep telling me how great and wonderful it is, so surely they must have had 6to4 built-in for MUCH LONGER THAN FREEBSD LOLZzz!1!1!! etc.
:) http://people.debian.org/~csmall/ipv6/setup624.html -- Michael Newbery IP Architect TelstraClear Limited
participants (10)
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Andrew Ruthven -
Craig Whitmore -
Ian McDonald -
Joe Abley -
Martin Kealey -
Matt Brown -
Michael Newbery -
Perry Lorier -
Philip D'Ath -
Steve Wray