On Sun, 2003-12-28 at 23:12, Michael Hallager wrote:

I can supply a high speed reliable wireless connection to any of six local schools, at a speed that exceeds "broadband" at a price far cheaper and a level of service far better, then any government scheme can.

Whether I wish to put up with teachers and BOT's left wing stance that I owe it to them... for free (Almost)... is another matter.

left or right wing doesn't enter into it. No commercial enterprise should be expected to "subsidise" schools, or any other public organisation through concessionary pricing without compensation. That's why I primarily suggested that taxpayers do it for themselves - and seek whatever level of "profit" makes sense. As Richard Naylor said: Do it yourself. Like the CityLink fibre around Wellington and the Wellington City Council (originally). For public services, the fact of the provision of the service is usually all the 'profit' that is required. We have a relatively safe and ordered society because the police and the courts are there to enforce the law. We do not seek to make a profit on them - or recover costs. That isn't socialism....it's actually a question similar to asking how much you pay yourself to go to the toilet. You don't. You just do it because as far as you're concerned it needs doing. There is no reason why the same cannot apply to the provision of a public network - like roading in the physical realm. -- Steve Withers

This has all been interesting reading, although I think all ISP with the right funding and technical skills can all build a network, but I think the most important thing is the accountability. The police and fire network are country wide and all real time response, from data to pagers to emergency band radio. An ISP may be able to offer them internet but that would be it, therefore I think we are missing the big picture, these businesses want one service who can be accountable and offer them everything they require, rather than an adhoc bit here and bit there and throw it all in the melting pot and end up with 20 bills at the end of the year. Well that's my opinion any way and as Micheal said we are all entitled to our opinions. My second thought is why should all the schools have state of the art internet connections, just a thought here, a 10 mile radius can have 3 schools all with their own computer rooms each getting paid for, why not up grade the local libaries and put computer rooms there, this then will be a community resourse which can be accessed by all. Rgs Pat -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hallager [mailto:michael(a)vivid.net.nz] Sent: 28 December 2003 23:13 To: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Fwd: Re: [nznog] Commerce Commission - bitstream etc. FUD! I can supply a high speed reliable wireless connection to any of six local schools, at a speed that exceeds "broadband" at a price far cheaper and a level of service far better, then any government scheme can. Whether I wish to put up with teachers and BOT's left wing stance that I owe it to them... for free (Almost)... is another matter.

I also think that if the telecoms providers and ISPs of NZ can't build and operate a network for schools / police / fire service / whatever that meets their requirements, then the government itself should build such a network.

I say this becasue today we spend billions on stuffing Telecom NZ's and TelstraClear's pockets.....and the profit alone on that service would build a kick-ass national network that would meet the infrastructural aims and goals I have in mind.

We have seen so far in NZ that private network providers - mainly Telecom, but they aren't alone - are likely more expensive in the medium and long term - at the end of the day - than a publicly-funded, cost-recovery network would be.

As Richard naylor has said: Why not just do it yourself?

Is that a question to individuals only? Or could the people of New Zealand hear that quesiton and respond?

I agree that deregulation presented opportunity.....but where is the competition we were supposed to see?

It isn't there....and Telecom NZ remains the most profitable telco in the OECD - pound for inch....and mainly becasue they were gifted - by Richard Prebble - a publicly funded and built infrastructure that no one else today can afford to match.

I'll be quiet now.

-- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624 ------------------------------------------------------- -- // Michael Hallager Director || Head geek || Making IT work. URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz networkStuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. Phone: 09 837-6100 (DDI) 0800 638-788 (Freecall) Fax: 09 837-8100 0800 329-788 (Freecall) Mobile: 027 477-7624 _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog