NZNOG People,
On 9 October this year, a Domainz registration record was posted to
this list. That included the name, address and phone numbers of a domain
name holder who has no association with this list. He has now written to
The University of Waikato asking them to remove his personal details
from the archive for this list. That request has been passed on to me.
My views on this are:
1/ The archive isn't my property, and I won't accept responsibility for
its contents.
2/ Past threats by subscribers to publish their own copies of the
archive make such changes of little practical use.
3 / Since 1/, and 2/ have not had any apparent impact on the man in
question, I have no problem with asking subscribers about this, and
agreeing to the removal of holder personal details (only) from the
posting in question if subscribers are happy with that.
So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and
holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can
be read at
http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and
replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request
of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so
promptly and briefly.
- Donald Neal
NZNOG Mailing List Administrator
--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd
"WorldSecure Server
On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Donald Neal wrote:
So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can be read at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so promptly and briefly.
I'm a little confused as to why they want this removed, since exactly the same information is on domainz's web site (and would be in the whois database if it was working). I've checked and the information doesn't appear to have been changed between what domains has now and what is on the archive. -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Donald Neal wrote:
On 9 October this year, a Domainz registration record was posted to this list. That included the name, address and phone numbers of a domain name holder who has no association with this list. He has now written to The University of Waikato asking them to remove his personal details from the archive for this list. That request has been passed on to me.
Um. Is this info not still available from Domainz, via a web query? JSR -- John S Russell | Smile Operations Manager | Nod Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:46:32AM +1300, Donald Neal wrote: On 9 October this year, a Domainz registration record was posted to this list. That included the name, address and phone numbers of a domain name holder who has no association with this list. He has now written to The University of Waikato asking them to remove his personal details from the archive for this list. That request has been passed on to me. Perhaps the greater issue here is the signal to noise level of this list is at times terrible and often much unnecessary detail is posted. If people (myself included) were to more closely adhere to the charter of this voluntary list such problems would occur lest frequently if at all. --cw - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Hi Donald, I think that responsibility for postings should remain with the original poster; they are the owner and publisher of the work; if the poster requests removal (or editing), that should be honoured. Any other position potentially makes the list administrator editorially responsible for the content of the list and its archive, and in a public list, that's a fairly dubious proposition. In other words, pass the buck again! 8-) -- don - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:55:29PM +1300, Don Stokes wrote:
I think that responsibility for postings should remain with the original poster; they are the owner and publisher of the work; if the poster requests removal (or editing), that should be honoured.
Any other position potentially makes the list administrator editorially responsible for the content of the list and its archive, and in a public list, that's a fairly dubious proposition.
In other words, pass the buck again! 8-)
Another potential solution, circumventing the NZ privacy laws, any chance that Donald could be held personally responsible for the content of the archive, is for the archive to be maintained and hosted outside NZ. If it is becoming troublesome to maintain an archive at UoW, I'd be happy to host a non-edited archive in Virginia. Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
What's done is done, my vote is any editorialism will increase debate and
therefore SNR on this list EVERY time such a query occurs. Leave it alone,
it will also only serve to further inspire Mr Angelo to continue his quest.
Arron Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz
[mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Donald Neal
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2001 11:47 AM
To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: The Archives, Again
NZNOG People,
On 9 October this year, a Domainz registration record was posted to
this list. That included the name, address and phone numbers of a domain
name holder who has no association with this list. He has now written to
The University of Waikato asking them to remove his personal details
from the archive for this list. That request has been passed on to me.
My views on this are:
1/ The archive isn't my property, and I won't accept responsibility for
its contents.
2/ Past threats by subscribers to publish their own copies of the
archive make such changes of little practical use.
3 / Since 1/, and 2/ have not had any apparent impact on the man in
question, I have no problem with asking subscribers about this, and
agreeing to the removal of holder personal details (only) from the
posting in question if subscribers are happy with that.
So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and
holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can
be read at
http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and
replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request
of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so
promptly and briefly.
- Donald Neal
NZNOG Mailing List Administrator
--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd
"WorldSecure Server
I strongly suggest that you take legal advise on this. Its al very nice to see the list members digging up legal stuff from the net, and guesing what the impact could be on mailing list archives, but to really get your ass covered, for _any_ mailinglist archive in NZ, get a lawyer and an official opinion. Waikato Uni should probably consider this. Or you can ofcourse stick your head in the sand, and wait until the day some other lawyer bites you in the ass :) Bart Bart Kindt Director, Network Operations The Internet Group Limited New Zealand - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Bart Kindt wrote:
I strongly suggest that you take legal advise on this. Its al very nice to see the list members digging up legal stuff from the net, and guesing what the impact could be on mailing list archives, but to really get your ass covered, for _any_ mailinglist archive in NZ, get a lawyer and an official opinion. Waikato Uni should probably consider this.
Or you can ofcourse stick your head in the sand, and wait until the day some other lawyer bites you in the ass :)
Donkey-worrying is illegal in NZ, I believe. But anyway, I'd be wary of getting the lawyers involved... it would be the beginning of a precedent, and trust me, the more "legalised" the Internet becomes, the less useful it will be. It will end up in the hands of the politicians. -- Juha Take off every sig! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:
But anyway, I'd be wary of getting the lawyers involved... it would be the beginning of a precedent, and trust me, the more "legalised" the Internet becomes, the less useful it will be. It will end up in the hands of the politicians.
already happened www.icann.org & www.doc.gov currently runs 80% of internet resolution services. of course we have the power to change that, i.e. the growing 20% ;) regards joe baptista -- Joe Baptista http://www.dot-god.com/ The dot.GOD Registry, Limited The Executive Plaza, Suite 908 150 West 51st Street Tel: 1 (208) 330-4173 Manhattan Island NYC 10019 USA Fax: 1 (208) 293-9773 - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 09:17:47AM +1300, Bart Kindt wrote:
I strongly suggest that you take legal advise on this. Its al very nice to see the list members digging up legal stuff from the net, and guesing what the impact could be on mailing list archives, but to really get your ass covered, for _any_ mailinglist archive in NZ, get a lawyer and an official opinion. Waikato Uni should probably consider this.
I threw an archive up on a machine outside NZ: http://archive.nznog.org/ Just in case that's helpful to anyone. Warning! Barely tested. Might suck. Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
I strongly suggest that you take legal advise on this. Its al very nice to see the list members digging up legal stuff from the net, and guesing what the impact could be on mailing list archives, but to really get your ass covered, for _any_ mailinglist archive in NZ, get a lawyer and an official opinion. Waikato Uni should probably consider this. Or you can ofcourse stick your head in the sand, and wait until the day some other lawyer bites you in the ass :)
IANAL, the `source' of the information is NOT this list, it's whois.domainz.net.nz and they have T&C's giving the registrant ZER0 options on privacy, so any court cases will be landing on the doorstep at Domainz, they're releasing the information and will have to defend their own T&C's. This list is archived publicly, and like most `public' reporting, will have adequate defences for defamation and uttering. Even if someone posts to the list a 100% defamatory statement, about a NZ corporation or individual, the case will have no merit, the process of publication is NOT edited, it's automatic, "no dirty hands". I feel that editing the list will expose the UoW to legal action, the editors will get sued for not verifying information, and for not taking prudent editorial steps. Editing is a can o' worms the Uni can't afford to open. Furtherto, several people on this list could easily publicise their own archives and editotialise, in an adverse fashion, against the UoW's editing decisions. On a personal level, the staff at UoW who look after this list will NOT have editorial powers or scope of authority over the external communications of the Uni, even as webmasters. Material is always drafted, approved by an authority, and published formerly. The archives are totally outside this scope, and once editorial control is taken of the archives, the information "belongs" to the UoW, who will disavow knowledge and hang the said staff members out to dry for publishing unauthorised editorial content. Moving the archives is a good idea, this would circumvent the privacy problems, and the UoW publishing problems. Joe, as an NZ citizen and the "owner" of the archive would still be responsible under NZ law for defamatory content if he exercises editorial control of the archive. --- Terence C. Giufre-Sweetser +---------------------------------+--------------------------+ | TereDonn Telecommunications Ltd | Phone +61-[0]7-32369366 | | 1/128 Bowen St, SPRING HILL | FAX +61-[0]7-32369930 | | PO BOX 1054, SPRING HILL 4004 | Mobile +61-[0]414-663053 | | Queensland Australia | http://www.tdce.com.au | +---------------------------------+--------------------------+ - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Terence wrote:
This list is archived publicly, and like most `public' reporting, will have adequate defences for defamation and uttering. Even if someone posts to the list a 100% defamatory statement, about a NZ corporation or individual, the case will have no merit, the process of publication is NOT edited, it's automatic, "no dirty hands".
As there is an AUP for the list which Donald enforces, it could be said that there is a degree of editorial control over what is is publicised. -- Juha Take off every sig! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
participants (11)
-
!Dr. Joe Baptista -
Arron Scott -
Bart Kindt -
Chris Wedgwood -
Don Stokes -
Donald Neal -
J S Russell -
Joe Abley -
Juha Saarinen -
Simon Lyall -
Terence