As you (and several others) have admitted to breaching the copyright and have also supplied your contact details, efforts to track the actual data path aren't really necessary :) On 2/09/2011 1:56 p.m., Eslick, Chris wrote:

Viewed from work connection over a proxy that does not log the internal IP.

So will work get the notice?

*From:*nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] *On Behalf Of *Craig Whitmore *Sent:* Friday, 2 September 2011 1:43 p.m. *To:* nznog List *Subject:* [nznog] An Experiment of CopyrightŠ .

I have made a file up and I have 100% copyright to it (as I made it). No one has any permission to view/download/copy/reproduce or anything the file except me (and there is only one of me)

The file is at http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/copyright.txt . Do NOT download or view it or anything the file. I'm just file sharing the location of it so I don't forget the location but no one else is allowed to see it.

Now lets see how many automated systems download the file or humans try and view MY file.

Thanks

Craig

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Nice one! <bush lawyer> Not sure there are laws against copyright infringment though... Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header. http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me.

And that he could make a case that the owner in "circulating information about the location of the file has 'issued the work to the public' and this shifts the work from being unpublished to being published". Bugger

I can tell everyone that my friends car is at number X Great North Road, but as far as I know it doesn't mean all the people who know the location can steal it (the car). Craig..

On 02/09/11 16:22, Craig Whitmore wrote:

I can tell everyone that my friends car is at number X Great North Road, but as far as I know it doesn't mean all the people who know the location can steal it (the car).

That may depend upon your interpretation of "can" being "is able to," or "is permitted to."

How much of the movie would need to be downloaded is the other thing I think that would be required.. and unless they are seeding you a large chunk or you tell them you have 99% of the chunks for the torrent do they have a leg to stand on? You don't need to get permission to use an insubstantial part of a work. Infringement only occurs when a whole work or a "substantial" part of a work is copied or used in a way that is reserved to the copyright owner. -----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Tim Price Sent: Friday, 2 September 2011 4:46 p.m. To: 'Dan Wallis'; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] An Experiment of Copyright? . And whether copying something is theft. Beer! -----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Dan Wallis Sent: Friday, 2 September 2011 4:27 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] An Experiment of Copyright? . On 02/09/11 16:22, Craig Whitmore wrote:

I can tell everyone that my friends car is at number X Great North Road, but as far as I know it doesn't mean all the people who know the location can steal it (the car).

That may depend upon your interpretation of "can" being "is able to," or "is permitted to." _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

On 9/2/2011 12:54 AM, Ian Batterbee wrote:

You wouldn't download a car !

Only because doing so would exceed a data cap...

A better analogy might be to say I left my car at X Great North Road, full of petrol, and with the key behind the front right wheel. I'll be away for 24 hours but don't even think about taking a joyride. Cheers, David Go On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 04:22:21 +0000, Craig Whitmore wrote

...

And that he could make a case that the owner in "circulating information about the location of the file has 'issued the work to the public' and this shifts the work from being unpublished to being published". Bugger

I can tell everyone that my friends car is at number X Great North Road, but as far as I know it doesn't mean all the people who know the location can steal it (the car).

Craig..

...

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--------------------------------------------------------------- Network Savvy nz: +64 (9) 985-1181 nz mob: +64 (21) 889-809

Its been fun today looking at some employees who don't care about copyright. :-) For example some government departments ... hcc.govt.nz ird.govt.nz msd.govt.nz archives.govt.nz moh.govt.nz minedu.govt.nz All have IP addresses that have downloaded the file.. I'll have a write up next week with some things I found out after the weekend. There are some _big_ problems I've found out with the practicalities of it Thanks

On 4/09/11 2:48 PM, "Dean Pemberton" wrote:

What if I viewed it from a country with no concept of copyright and then deleted it before I flew home?

Dean (jet lagged)

There are countries which exist which don't have any concept of copyright?

On 4 September 2011 21:39, Richard Naylor wrote:

Looks to me that theres a public education mission for someone, probably DIA.

I would say MED given what Simon Powers said during question time a while back. He also said the media has done a good job so there isn't much for the govt to do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-96TCpcHfcM&feature=youtu.be

On Friday I posted a message on geekzone.co.nz website and the NZNOG mailing list of the location of my file. The post was information only (so I personally wouldn't forget where it was) and linked to the file but had a clear warning that people that the file was copyrighted and no one had permission to view/download etc the file . The Results... (Over 3 days, Numbers rounded to nearest 50) Total Downloads: 2700 NZ Downloads (Non Mobile): 1900 NZ Downloads (Mobile): 100 Overseas Download: 650 NZ I presume hiding behind overseas proxy - 50 NZ has this new law in place.. something to do with copyright. All these horrible people are copying my work without permission and I want to do something about it. Reading the law I can send notices to the IPAP (the people who give out the ip addresses to this people). So lets do it.. The MED (whoever these people are) have said I should charge $25 . So it would cost me $50000 to send out notices to all the IPAPs to complain. A few problems and comments.. - How do I contact the IPAP? I cannot find on ANYONEs website on how to complain.. Checking the top 5 ISP's in NZ there was no information at all? Do I just whois the ip addresses and send it to the contact listed? There is lots of information on the users side who might get the notices but NOTHING anywhere on how Rights Holders should complain? - I don't have $50000 . I am only a small individual and I estimate the worth of my material which was copied is worth $0.000001 but it is still copyrighted by me! All these people downloaded it and if I did have $50000 and sent letter to all the IPAPS it would not help me at all. - People would have to access my work 3 times within 9 months (3 separate notices from me and as I work slowly my next work may be in 12 months time). I am stuffed.. Copyright in New Zealand lasts say 50 years after someone dies (I don't know the exact time) so why should the warnings expire after 9 months?? - NZFACT (MPAA) are the agents in NZ for large record/movie places are the "rights holders" so its ALOT easier for them to get 3 strikes under their name. - Users are not informed enough. My message was clear enough.. do NOT download my file but still 2000 people in NZ did. - What happens if I DO send in a notice? do I get any feedback? what happens when I don't get any feedback? (i.e. it is ignored or goes to the wrong person etc). Can I go up the stream? complain to one of their upstreams? - What happens when the IPAP cannot identify the person who did it? Does the IPAP get a strike against their own name? - if a user has 2 internet connections who are load balanced from the same ip address via 2 IPAPS? (BGP) who do I send the notice to? both of them? WOuld this be counted at 1 or 2 infingements? I think 1 so there is no point! - IPAP or user? who decides who is who? - If an IPAP get a notice..does the IPAP have to tell anyone this? Where is this documented in the law? . What does the law say? - Can I go after these people in any other way? Can I do a civil suit in NZ against all these people( IP Addresses). Can I name 1000's of IP Addresses in NZ Law as the people I am going after instead of physical people (as its impossible for me to know who they are) - Some people on the internet actually downloaded and put up a copy of my content on various websites? I can 92C? for free these places and DMCA the overseas websites.. but i get nothing out of it..! All my work.. copied and I get no compensation. - Why where mobile networks ignored until 2013? Can anyone tell me the technical reason? or was it political? Telecom? Vodafone? 2DegreeMobile? So what is defined as a mobile network? Is (it may) be impossible to know if an IP Address is mobile or not do I get my $25 back if I complain about someone downloading something via a Mobile Network? If I send out notice to IPAP and user disputes the 1st detection. What happens? I have lots of other questions! Mostly on the Rights Holders side and as far as I know there is no information out there. I personally can't see how this new law protects small rights holders at all. Anyway I might GPLv2 my work soon.. maybe.. BTW. NO one has paid me!

On 5/09/11 2:56 PM, Craig Whitmore wrote:

I personally can't see how this new law protects small rights holders at all.

After all that's gone down, I would be surprised if anyone honestly thought it did. But you raise some substantial matters that should be placed in front of the Minister responsible, Mr Simon Power, before he disappears from accountability at the election. Let MPs know that this IS an election issue, and remember that only the Greens voted against it at the time. ;-) ~mark

Though one thing to note is that HTTP servers might not fit the definition of under the Act http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2011/0011/latest/whole.html#DLM276... “file sharing is where— “(a) material is uploaded via, or downloaded from, the Internet using an application or network that enables the simultaneous sharing of material between multiple users; and “(b) uploading and downloading may, but need not, occur at the same time Though just thinking some more in addition to HTTP GET there is also HTTP POST so yeah could fit. Notice that description could fit an email server. And could add an email signature that said something like: ©2011 David Robinson Please note I (David Robinson) am the copyright holder of this email/file(s) (expect where stated otherwise e.g. quoted sections). This email is only for the people listed in the To, CC or BCC fields. You may not share this email/file(s) outside that group be it electronically, verbally, visually, physically or by any other means. You may not forward or share this email/file(s) with any other email addresses even others you may control or those of your staff. If you do share this copyrighted work you are in breach of my copyright over this work. If you wish to share this work you can contact me for my express permission and license. The base license fee is NZ$15000 per person shared with. And then send to emails that autoforward or were staff reply. Let me think name(a)national.org.nz auto forwards to a @parliment.govt.nz address for ministers. On 5 September 2011 15:37, Paul Brislen wrote:

I'm happy to pay for the first notice ($25) so we can see where this leads.

If we get a couple more you've got your three strikes I would think. Then we can take it to the Tribunal.

-----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Mark Harris Sent: Monday, 5 September 2011 3:22 p.m. To: NZNOG Subject: Re: [nznog] An Experiment of Copyright? .

On 5/09/11 2:56 PM, Craig Whitmore wrote:

...

I personally can't see how this new law protects small rights holders at all.

After all that's gone down, I would be surprised if anyone honestly thought it did. But you raise some substantial matters that should be placed in front of the Minister responsible, Mr Simon Power, before he disappears from accountability at the election.

Let MPs know that this IS an election issue, and remember that only the Greens voted against it at the time. ;-)

~mark _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

I would see it would be VERY unlikely if anyone gets up to the 2nd notice with my content They would have need to download the same file 3 times over 3 months. It has to be 3 notices from the same rights holder over 3 months. Saying that it would be interesting to see what happens if I send complaints to the Government Departments who users downloaded the file. If they have any idea what to do

Hi all,

The processes have been documented by the TCF based on the Law, and they are available on the Rick Shera blog page (consultant for the TCF)here: http://lawgeeknz.posterous.com/copyright-infringing-file-sharing-amendment-a

Note that an infringement can be any download (read upload), not just the same file 3 times and it does not have to be the same rights holder in order for an end-user to progress to a 2nd/3rd notice.

In the event that the tribunal makes an award, who receives the (up to) $15k, assuming the Account Holder can and does pay up? If this simply lines the government's coffers that's straightforward enough, but if the award is made with the RH as the beneficiary (presumably that is the RH's motivation in seeking proceedings), and as Matthew suggests, there may be up to three different RH's involved, how is the award divided? Do the RHs have to demonstrate the relative value of their copyright? If there are indeed three RHs, which one initiates the enforcement proceedings? Is the fact that the AH has received an Enforcement Notice released only to the RH who is associated with the Enforcement Notice, or to the RHs associated with the first two notices as well? If three RH's are given access to the tribunal in relation to one user, does the tribunal have the ability to annul two sets of proceedings, or does the user risk three sets of fines? And on what basis does the tribunal determine how much to award? On the basis of actual loss of the RH perhaps? Net or Gross of, say, the movie theatre's margin in the case of a film (with or without the popcorn?), or the retailer and distributor's respective margins in the case of a software title? It's going to be bad enough sifting through this for the ISPs, but I'd really hate to be the guy running the tribunal. -- Erin Salmon

So do all the MPAA-group infringement notices get lumped together, or is an individual able to get one notice from Warner, one notice from New Line, one notice from Disney and still be perfectly OK? On 5 September 2011 22:23, Richard Patterson wrote:

On 5/09/2011 5:47 p.m., Matthew Law wrote:

Note that an infringement can be any download (read upload), not just the same file 3 times and it does not have to be the same rights holder in order for an end-user to progress to a 2nd/3rd notice.

122E. (1) (b) : "the infringement occurred at least 28 days after the date of a detection notice issued to the account holder in relation to the same rights owner, but before that detection notice expires."

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2011/0011/latest/DLM2764327.html#D...

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On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 14:56:54 +1200 Craig Whitmore wrote:

- How do I contact the IPAP?

whois <ipaddress> For your IP that would be: $ whois 121.98.119.1 | grep e-mail e-mail: support(a)orcon.net.nz e-mail: abuse(a)orcon.net.nz

- Users are not informed enough.

Ignorance is bliss. Most people on this planet lead very blissful lives.

My message was clear enough.. do NOT download my file but still 2000 people in NZ did.

Right, but the amendments to the law targeting sharing. So you would probably only want to spend your $50,000 if all those people are re-distributing your file. That way you can fudge your numbers by orders of magnitude to help justify the relevance of your archaic business model in an age that's left you behind.

- If an IPAP get a notice..does the IPAP have to tell anyone this? Where is this documented in the law? . What does the law say?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2011/0011/latest/DLM2764327.html