'Registering' a DNS server
We've just set up a new DNS server for a client whose domain name is a .co.nz name, and we can't make it a primary or secondary for .com or .net names. In the (distant) past we've 'registered' name servers with Network Solutions, and then it's been all good. Now that the registries are with Verisign there seems to be no way to register anything other than a name server on a .com or .net name, and that has to be completed via the registrar (Tucows, Godaddy etc). I'm not sure whether I'm being particularly dense or if this is actually a difficult thing to do - can someone please let me know what the process is now for registering a .nz server to enable it to be a primary or secondary for .com or .net names. Thanks, Gerard
Gidday, you should be able to register using any name at all including
.co.nz, .net.nz etc, I can't see why they'd have that kind of constraints on
their setup. Does it let you put an IP address in instead? You might be able
to use the IP address of your primary etc. They might need a bit of a kick
in the right place if they think that the only domains that exist are .com
etc.
Regards
Dan
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Gerard Creamer
We've just set up a new DNS server for a client whose domain name is a .co.nz name, and we can't make it a primary or secondary for .com or .net names. In the (distant) past we've 'registered' name servers with Network Solutions, and then it's been all good. Now that the registries are with Verisign there seems to be no way to register anything other than a name server on a .com or .net name, and that has to be completed via the registrar (Tucows, Godaddy etc).
I'm not sure whether I'm being particularly dense or if this is actually a difficult thing to do - can someone please let me know what the process is now for registering a .nz server to enable it to be a primary or secondary for .com or .net names.
Thanks, Gerard
_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
Hey, On 25-Feb-2008, at 04:42, Gerard Creamer wrote:
We've just set up a new DNS server for a client whose domain name is a .co.nz name, and we can't make it a primary or secondary for .com or .net names. In the (distant) past we've 'registered' name servers with Network Solutions, and then it's been all good. Now that the registries are with Verisign there seems to be no way to register anything other than a name server on a .com or .net name, and that has to be completed via the registrar (Tucows, Godaddy etc).
Network Solutions is a registrar, just like Tucows, GoDaddy, etc. Verisign is the registry operator for .COM and .NET. In registry terms, what you need to do is request the creation of a host object in the COM/NET registry for the new DNS server. Since in this case the new nameserver is named under CO.NZ and not COM or NET, its registration will not require you to specify IP (v4/v6) addresses; just the name. You can't deal directly with the registry, however -- you need to have your request passed through by a registrar. Different registrars present the "create host object" operation to end users (registrants) differently. Joe
Thanks for that Joe. I can't find a registrar that will allow me to register a non COM/NET name server - if anyone knows a registrar that allows this could you please let me know? Then we can move our names there and register the new name servers as well. Thanks, Gerard On 26/02/2008 4:35 a.m., Joe Abley wrote:
Hey,
On 25-Feb-2008, at 04:42, Gerard Creamer wrote:
We've just set up a new DNS server for a client whose domain name is a .co.nz name, and we can't make it a primary or secondary for .com or .net names. In the (distant) past we've 'registered' name servers with Network Solutions, and then it's been all good. Now that the registries are with Verisign there seems to be no way to register anything other than a name server on a .com or .net name, and that has to be completed via the registrar (Tucows, Godaddy etc).
Network Solutions is a registrar, just like Tucows, GoDaddy, etc. Verisign is the registry operator for .COM and .NET.
In registry terms, what you need to do is request the creation of a host object in the COM/NET registry for the new DNS server. Since in this case the new nameserver is named under CO.NZ and not COM or NET, its registration will not require you to specify IP (v4/v6) addresses; just the name.
You can't deal directly with the registry, however -- you need to have your request passed through by a registrar. Different registrars present the "create host object" operation to end users (registrants) differently.
Joe
-- Netspace Services Limited http://www.netspace.net.nz Phone +64 4 917 8098 Mobile +64 21 246 2266 Level One, 220 Thorndon Quay, Thorndon PO Box 12-082, Thorndon, Wellington 6004, New Zealand
I can't find a registrar that will allow me to register a non COM/NET name server - if anyone knows a registrar that allows this could you please let me know? Then we can move our names there and register the new name servers as well.
Can't you self host the dns records?
Ie: When you create the domain DOMAIN.com also setup
A records for ns1.DOMAIN.com and ns2.DOMAIN.com wih the right ip addresses
and NS records pointing to those.
The registrar will create the glue records for you.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Francois Pirus
On 27/02/2008, at 5:34 PM, Jean-Francois Pirus wrote:
I can't find a registrar that will allow me to register a non COM/NET name server - if anyone knows a registrar that allows this could you please let me know? Then we can move our names there and register the new name servers as well.
Can't you self host the dns records?
Ie: When you create the domain DOMAIN.com also setup A records for ns1.DOMAIN.com and ns2.DOMAIN.com wih the right ip addresses and NS records pointing to those. The registrar will create the glue records for you.
Scenario: You have (or provide DNS service for) lots and lots of domains. Renumber. -- Nathan Ward
Ie: When you create the domain DOMAIN.com also setup A records for ns1.DOMAIN.com and ns2.DOMAIN.com wih the right ip addresses and NS records pointing to those. The registrar will create the glue records for you.
Scenario: You have (or provide DNS service for) lots and lots of domains.
You only do this for your first domain, all the others point to the ns of the
1st one
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Francois Pirus
On 27/02/2008 5:44 p.m., Jean-Francois Pirus wrote:
Ie: When you create the domain DOMAIN.com also setup A records for ns1.DOMAIN.com and ns2.DOMAIN.com wih the right ip addresses and NS records pointing to those. The registrar will create the glue records for you.
Scenario: You have (or provide DNS service for) lots and lots of domains.
You only do this for your first domain, all the others point to the ns of the 1st one
If we were to change the nameservers from nsX.DOMAIN.co.nz and nsX.DOMAIN.com the customer would have to change the DNS for every one of their hundreds of domains. Granted they'll have to do a fair amount of of this anyway to use the new name server, but they won't have to change them all, just the ones they want to move. Cheers, Gerard
Gerard Creamer wrote:
On 27/02/2008 5:44 p.m., Jean-Francois Pirus wrote:
Ie: When you create the domain DOMAIN.com also setup A records for ns1.DOMAIN.com and ns2.DOMAIN.com wih the right ip addresses and NS records pointing to those. The registrar will create the glue records for you.
Scenario: You have (or provide DNS service for) lots and lots of domains.
You only do this for your first domain, all the others point to the ns of the 1st one
If we were to change the nameservers from nsX.DOMAIN.co.nz and nsX.DOMAIN.com the customer would have to change the DNS for every one of their hundreds of domains. Granted they'll have to do a fair amount of of this anyway to use the new name server, but they won't have to change them all, just the ones they want to move.
Why ? Surely, they are just pointers. You keep nsX.domain.co.nz pointing to 1.2.3.4 you create a new record, nsX.domain.com pointing to 1.2.3.4 when creating your first .com domain (domain.com) you point the glue record for this to 1.2.3.4 and have nsX.domain.com created, also pointing to this IP address your customers continue to use nsX.domain.co.nz any subsequent .com/.net creations use nsX.domain.com everyone is happy, you are left with a maximum of two domains to keep track of if you ever change IP addresses. We can then all go for free beer, shouted by Nathan. It appears that you're (did you see what I did there?) problem here seems to be cosmetic. -- Steve.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Phillips"
Ok, I just spent 10 minutes googling around but no luck. [1] Why does .com and some other TLDs require that name servers be registered? [1] I did find this useful link on how to register nameservers though: http://www.whsupport.net/register_nameservers.php -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.
On 27-Feb-2008, at 05:18, Simon Lyall wrote:
Ok, I just spent 10 minutes googling around but no luck. [1]
Why does .com and some other TLDs require that name servers be registered?
Different registries are designed in different ways. Verisign-operated registries have long had a data model that includes both host and domain objects, with relational links between them. When the effort began to implement something akin to Verisign's Registry- Registrar Protocol (RRP) as the Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) at the IETF, many facets of the Verisign data model were inherited. Since this data model was by no means universal, I believe (although I haven't bothered to go back and check the archives) that EPP was extended to accommodate domain objects with embedded references to nameservers, rather than references to host objects. Regardless, several large registries (all those run by Verisign, and all those run by Afilias, for example) include host objects in their schema today. So, COM, NET, ORG, INFO, MOBI, AERO, etc have this requirement. If you're bringing new a new nameserver (by which I mean a new DNS name to be used in NS RDATA) which you intend to use in general- purpose delegation from TLDs, it's good practice to arrange for corresponding host objects to be added in all the registries you expect to deal with. With the Tucows reseller interface that I happen to have access to the appropriate link to look for is "Add nameserver to all foreign registries". I just added a couple of hosts for Dan Langille, and I see that the corresponding host objects now show up at whois.verisign- grs.com. Several people in this thread have confused the global, distributed database called the DNS with the individual, non-distributed databases operated by particular registries. Just because the data in the latter is used to contribute towards the former doesn't mean that their schemas or data models need to be identical. Joe
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:18:51 +1300 (NZDT), Simon Lyall
Ok, I just spent 10 minutes googling around but no luck. [1] Why does .com and some other TLDs require that name servers be registered? [1] I did find this useful link on how to register nameservers though: http://www.whsupport.net/register_nameservers.php -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.
NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
Theres also the possibility that the registrar is fundamentally broken. I've come across instances in the past where a registrar wont allow you to set NS records if the target domain doesn't exist in their authoritive nameservers. This was supposed to be some "feature" which stopped a user from entering invalid info. The only fix for this is to make them temporarily create a zone for your NS domain while you fix the NS entries on your new domain. I've seen plenty of registrars that dont care at all what you use for NS records, and i have a handful of .com/.net domains who point to .nz NS's myself. Ask iServe? net24? they are more pricey than US registrars, but at least you can talk to them. I havent seen anything about registering NS records with registrars though, so i may be missing the point entirely?. Jeremy.
I know when customers of ours want .nz nameservers registered we just email
our .com partner (Names4Ever) and they just add them for us... we've never
had any problems in this regard, the only problems we've had is when trying
to register .com NS with them, when we don't have the domain with them...
that' they won't do :P
Still I wouldn't recommend Names4Ever for a host of other reasons...
Regards,
Stephen Farrar
Microsoft Systems Administrator
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-----Original Message-----
From: nznog(a)lunatic.net.nz [mailto:nznog(a)lunatic.net.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2008 8:42 a.m.
To: nznog
Subject: Re: [nznog] 'Registering' a DNS server
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:18:51 +1300 (NZDT), Simon Lyall
Ok, I just spent 10 minutes googling around but no luck. [1] Why does .com and some other TLDs require that name servers be registered? [1] I did find this useful link on how to register nameservers though: http://www.whsupport.net/register_nameservers.php -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.
NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
Theres also the possibility that the registrar is fundamentally broken. I've come across instances in the past where a registrar wont allow you to set NS records if the target domain doesn't exist in their authoritive nameservers. This was supposed to be some "feature" which stopped a user from entering invalid info. The only fix for this is to make them temporarily create a zone for your NS domain while you fix the NS entries on your new domain. I've seen plenty of registrars that dont care at all what you use for NS records, and i have a handful of .com/.net domains who point to .nz NS's myself. Ask iServe? net24? they are more pricey than US registrars, but at least you can talk to them. I havent seen anything about registering NS records with registrars though, so i may be missing the point entirely?. Jeremy. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
On 27-Feb-2008, at 14:50, Stephen Farrar - Digiweb NZ wrote:
I know when customers of ours want .nz nameservers registered we just email our .com partner (Names4Ever) and they just add them for us... we've never had any problems in this regard, the only problems we've had is when trying to register .com NS with them, when we don't have the domain with them... that' they won't do :P
The EPP data model says that a subordinate host object (an object relating to a host which is named in-registry) has the same access controls as that of the corresponding superordinate domain object. So, in plainer language, if you want to edit the host object relating to NS1.BLAH.COM, you need the same credentials as you would to edit the BLAH.COM domain object. So "won't do" above is understandable, since its origin is in a "can't do". You need to ask whoever is able to make changes to BLAH.COM to make changes for NS1.BLAH.COM. Joe
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Simon Lyall wrote:
Ok, I just spent 10 minutes googling around but no luck. [1]
Why does .com and some other TLDs require that name servers be registered?
This link http://www.gemstream.com/support/name_server.html has a "why" "Why do I need to register my name servers? Registering name servers makes them available for lookup by anyone on the Internet. If name servers are not registered then no one outside your network will know they exist and registrars (e.g. Network Solutions, Register.com, etc.) will not let you point domain names to them." and purty little flash animations on how to do it at a few more registrars. -- Brendan Murray brendan(a)wolfhoundsecurity.com
On 28/02/2008, at 16:31, Brendan Murray wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Simon Lyall wrote:
Ok, I just spent 10 minutes googling around but no luck. [1]
Why does .com and some other TLDs require that name servers be registered?
This link
http://www.gemstream.com/support/name_server.html
has a "why"
"Why do I need to register my name servers? Registering name servers makes them available for lookup by anyone on the Internet. If name servers are not registered then no one outside your network will know they exist and registrars (e.g. Network Solutions, Register.com, etc.) will not let you point domain names to them."
and purty little flash animations on how to do it at a few more registrars.
*laugh* *snort* *chortle* I have always thought it was a stupid policy, that link only reenforces my opinions. -- Phillip Hutchings http://www.sitharus.com/
On 27/02/2008 5:34 p.m., Jean-Francois Pirus wrote:
I can't find a registrar that will allow me to register a non COM/NET name server - if anyone knows a registrar that allows this could you please let me know? Then we can move our names there and register the new name servers as well.
Can't you self host the dns records?
Ie: When you create the domain DOMAIN.com also setup A records for ns1.DOMAIN.com and ns2.DOMAIN.com wih the right ip addresses and NS records pointing to those. The registrar will create the glue records for you.
I want to set up ns1.DOMAIN.co.nz as the name server Thanks, Gerard
I want to set up ns1.DOMAIN.co.nz as the name server
OK, it doesn't sound like you can.
I'll tell you our setup is that helps.
We have clearfield.co.nz setup with NS's of ns1.clearfield.co.nz and
ns2.clearfield.co.nz
We also have clearfield.com setup with NS's of ns1.clearfield.com and
ns2.clearfield.com.
For .nz domains we tell our clients to use the ns?.clearfield.co.nz NS's and
for .com domains tell them to use n?.clearfield.com.
When we have to renumber we only update the registration details for 2
domains: clearfield.co.nz and clearfield.com (as they use ip addresses), none
of our clients have to change their domain registration details (as they use
names)
--
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Jean-Francois Pirus
Thanks for that. I was hoping to avoid that, but it's looking more and more like it's what we'll have to do. I'll check out the half dozen registrars that were suggested off-list and see if any of them will actually allow us to do what we want to do first, as ideally we'd be able to do with .nz names. Thanks for all of the replies. Gerard On 27/02/2008 5:52 p.m., Jean-Francois Pirus wrote:
I want to set up ns1.DOMAIN.co.nz as the name server
OK, it doesn't sound like you can.
I'll tell you our setup is that helps.
We have clearfield.co.nz setup with NS's of ns1.clearfield.co.nz and ns2.clearfield.co.nz
We also have clearfield.com setup with NS's of ns1.clearfield.com and ns2.clearfield.com.
For .nz domains we tell our clients to use the ns?.clearfield.co.nz NS's and for .com domains tell them to use n?.clearfield.com.
When we have to renumber we only update the registration details for 2 domains: clearfield.co.nz and clearfield.com (as they use ip addresses), none of our clients have to change their domain registration details (as they use names)
On 27/02/2008, at 5:41 PM, Gerard Creamer wrote:
I want to set up ns1.DOMAIN.co.nz as the name server
If this is for a single client and they are the registrant for both the .nz and .com names concerned, then I believe solutions have been posted. However, if this is for many different clients, then you want to be sure you have control over the domain the name servers are within. Register a name that is clearly yours but not confusingly similar to a large US provider otherwise they will have a piece of you, then establish ns1 and ns1 hosts in that zone. Don't forget to lock the domain so it cant be auto transferred to another registrar or otherwise tampered with. Renumbering pain is not the only thing to deal with here, maintaining control is important as well. regards Peter Mott Admin .aq ccTLD cell: +64 21 279 4995 -/-
On 26-Feb-2008, at 23:24, Gerard Creamer wrote:
I can't find a registrar that will allow me to register a non COM/ NET name server - if anyone knows a registrar that allows this could you please let me know? Then we can move our names there and register the new name servers as well.
Seems odd. If you let me know the hosts you need added (off list), I can see whether my (personal) Tucows reseller account will let me do it. Joe
Hi Joe, Thanks - this offer is very much appreciated. The knowledge that Tucows lets you create name server objects for 'all foreign registries' is enough to sway me to set up an account there and move our 100 or so COM/NET names. Do you happen to know if you can update historic name server objects? I have a couple that were made using my old NetSol NIC handle, and they are visible in whois.verisign- grs.com, but they are out of date (have the wrong IPs). Even with the wrong IPs they still work, but they are technically incorrect and I would like to fix them if I can. Thanks, Gerard On 28/02/2008 2:38 a.m., Joe Abley wrote:
On 26-Feb-2008, at 23:24, Gerard Creamer wrote:
I can't find a registrar that will allow me to register a non COM/NET name server - if anyone knows a registrar that allows this could you please let me know? Then we can move our names there and register the new name servers as well.
Seems odd.
If you let me know the hosts you need added (off list), I can see whether my (personal) Tucows reseller account will let me do it.
Joe
-- Netspace Services Limited http://www.netspace.net.nz Phone +64 4 917 8098 Mobile +64 21 246 2266 Level One, 220 Thorndon Quay, Thorndon PO Box 12-082, Thorndon, Wellington 6004, New Zealand
participants (13)
-
Brendan Murray -
Craig Whitmore -
Dan Clark -
Gerard Creamer -
Jean-Francois Pirus -
Joe Abley -
Nathan Ward -
nznog＠lunatic.net.nz -
Peter Mott -
Phillip Hutchings -
Simon Lyall -
Stephen Farrar - Digiweb NZ -
Steve Phillips