Hi all, I expect this is probably flame bait, but I keep hitting the same question in customer-land almost every week, and wondered if there were at least a different (if not necessarily smarter) way of dealing with the problem. Maybe this is already been done to some extent, and maybe we just need to formalise some of this. Anyway ... I get endless number of customers who want to peer with more than one ISP at a time, usually with the intention of resiliency at both the institutional and upstream provider levels. So what they usually want is a Public AS number and a class C which is advertised as a long prefix to the Internet via two upstreams such as Telecom GGI and TelstraClear, often with an intermediary ISP as their direct peer. Now ... what I was thinking is ... can we do this without the rare (and increasingly difficult to obtain) Public AS numbers. Could we have a publically agreed on pool of Private AS numbers that enterprises can use to peer with service providers. The pool would administered by a "impartial" group (maybe WIX/APE). The AS number would then be stripped by both higher-order ISPs and and the IP address potentially unsuppressed by the ISP who owns the IP address aggregate. One possible hiccup I see is between NZ peers, and whether there would be a problem when for instance the TelstraClear network sees the network as one AS hop direct to the customer, and one AS hop via Telecom (and vice-versa). However, on the otherside I also wondered whether this could be used on the APE and WIX for customer to customer peering, providing more rapid peering relationship growth in NZ. Any thoughts ... or have I, in my two years of vendor-land, turned into a BGP zombie who can no longer fathom the depths of BGPs arcane and sometimes infuriating nuances ? Arron Scott *********************************************************************** Arron Scott (CCIE #4099) Phone: +64-9-3551951 Systems Engineer Mobile: +64-27-4883163 Cisco New Zealand mailto:ascott(a)cisco.com http://www.cisco.com *********************************************************************** - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 06:24:09PM +1200, Arron Scott wrote:
I get endless number of customers who want to peer with more than one ISP at a time, usually with the intention of resiliency at both the institutional and upstream provider levels. So what they usually want is a Public AS number and a class C which is advertised as a long prefix to the Internet via two upstreams such as Telecom GGI and TelstraClear, often with an intermediary ISP as their direct peer.
APNIC have a policy for allocating long-prefix netblocks for the purposes of multi-homing: http://www.apnic.net/docs/policy/add-manage-policy.html#11.1 Alternatively, it's common practice to accept a provider-aggregatable delegation from one provider, and arrange for that long-prefix route to be advertised in addition to its covering supernet (so that it can also be advertised through a different transit provider). So the address space part is a non-issue.
Now ... what I was thinking is ... can we do this without the rare (and increasingly difficult to obtain) Public AS numbers.
APNIC members can obtain ASNs for their customers at no cost beyond the membership fees they already pay. It takes about four days. They are not at all difficult to obtain. I happen to know that at least one of the providers you mentioned is extremely familiar and well-practiced at this process :)
Could we have a publically agreed on pool of Private AS numbers that enterprises can use to peer with service providers. The pool would administered by a "impartial" group (maybe WIX/APE). The AS number would then be stripped by both higher-order ISPs and and the IP address potentially unsuppressed by the ISP who owns the IP address aggregate.
There is no need for it (and there is no "impartial group" called WIX/APE, unless you are talking about Citylink). Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Hi Aaron, I see that Joe has already mentioned that getting an AS for a customer isn't a big deal. The customer can have address space supplied by either provider, or get their own. Issuing private AS's then stripping them on our side would be adding another layer of complexity that isn't really necessary. The customer doesn't even need to talk BGP, unless they're providing services to the outside e.g. web or mail server. Vincent Jones has written a very good book that addresses this issue well - "High Availability Networking with Cisco". He's also a regular in the newsgroup comp.dcom.sys.cisco and seems to be more than happy to answer questions. Cheers, Gordon - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
participants (3)
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Arron Scott -
Gordon Smith -
Joe Abley