FW: Content again - legality question
Again, any thoughts on the NZ situation (legally) regarding this? -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists skeeve(a)eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- NOC, NOC, who's there? From: ausnog-bounces(a)lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces(a)lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Skeeve Stevens Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 12:59 AM To: ausnog(a)ausnog.net Subject: [AusNOG] Content again - legality question Hey all, Content question again - but this time a legal question. For any content that is 'freely available on the web' - what is the legality of acquiring this content and delivering it locally? For example.. many TV stations are uploading full episodes onto their websites after the show has aired. YouTube would be another example. I am only talking about free content - which is not paid for, but freely downloadable from websites. I guess I am talking about a 'pre-caching' kind of situation. Also, does anyone know at what point music becomes legally free to use in Australia?... like books after 50years after the authors death (in the US it is 20). ...Skeeve -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists skeeve(a)eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- NOC, NOC, who's there? Disclaimer: Limits of Liability and Disclaimer: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. eintellego Pty Ltd and each legal entity in the Tefilah Pty Ltd group of companies reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to be the views of any such entity. Any reference to costs, fee quotations, contractual transactions and variations to contract terms is subject to separate confirmation in writing signed by an authorised representative of eintellego. Whilst all efforts are made to safeguard inbound and outbound e-mails, we cannot guarantee that attachments are virus-free or compatible with your systems and do not accept any liability in respect of viruses or computer problems experienced.
Hello Skeeve, If you're serious, perhaps you need to contact a Lawyer. It may cost you money up front to find out what you may already know, but it might save you money in the long run if you run into issues down the track. However. one would have thought, though, that they would have posted the rules on this sort of thing in their Terms and Conditions. Other than that, it would probably pay to contact the sites delivering the currently available content and query them about this "pre-caching" situation, or "re-broadcasting" their web releases. As for the Auzzie Copyright question, you might want to check out: http://www.copyright.org.au/ (I think it's 10 years). Cheers, Mike ________________________________ From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Skeeve Stevens Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 3:00 a.m. To: nznog Subject: [nznog] FW: Content again - legality question Again, any thoughts on the NZ situation (legally) regarding this? -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists skeeve(a)eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- NOC, NOC, who's there? From: ausnog-bounces(a)lists.ausnog.net [mailto:ausnog-bounces(a)lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Skeeve Stevens Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 12:59 AM To: ausnog(a)ausnog.net Subject: [AusNOG] Content again - legality question Hey all, Content question again - but this time a legal question. For any content that is 'freely available on the web' - what is the legality of acquiring this content and delivering it locally? For example.. many TV stations are uploading full episodes onto their websites after the show has aired. YouTube would be another example. I am only talking about free content - which is not paid for, but freely downloadable from websites. I guess I am talking about a 'pre-caching' kind of situation. Also, does anyone know at what point music becomes legally free to use in Australia?... like books after 50years after the authors death (in the US it is 20). ...Skeeve -- Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists skeeve(a)eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954 Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego -- NOC, NOC, who's there? Disclaimer: Limits of Liability and Disclaimer: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. eintellego Pty Ltd and each legal entity in the Tefilah Pty Ltd group of companies reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to be the views of any such entity. Any reference to costs, fee quotations, contractual transactions and variations to contract terms is subject to separate confirmation in writing signed by an authorised representative of eintellego. Whilst all efforts are made to safeguard inbound and outbound e-mails, we cannot guarantee that attachments are virus-free or compatible with your systems and do not accept any liability in respect of viruses or computer problems experienced.
Michael Hutchinson wrote:
If you’re serious, perhaps you need to contact a Lawyer. It may cost you money up front to find out what you may already know, but it might save you money in the long run if you run into issues down the track.
Damn skippy, you should.
Skeeve wrote:
For any content that is ‘freely available on the web’ – what is the legality of acquiring this content and delivering it locally?
Define "freely available".
For example.. many TV stations are uploading full episodes onto their websites after the show has aired.
It's still covered by copyright (regardless of what one may think of the rights and wrongs of that). As Michael said, T&C will tell you a lot about what the publisher thinks you can and can't do with their content, and they WILL have contracted lawyers to look at this. Pointing to their content is one thing, Actually reusing it (even if in the same form) is a whole 'nother can'o'worms.
I am only talking about free content – which is not paid for, but freely downloadable from websites.
"Free" as in beer does not mean "free" as in speech ;-)
I guess I am talking about a ‘pre-caching’ kind of situation.
I don't know of any legislation anywhere that has considered "pre-caching". NZ law allows for caching to not be copyright infringement, I don't think Australia does. Regards Mark Harris
Skeeve wrote:
For any content that is freely available on the web what is the legality of acquiring this content and delivering it locally?
Define "freely available".
For example.. many TV stations are uploading full episodes onto their websites after the show has aired.
It's still covered by copyright (regardless of what one may think of the rights and wrongs of that). As Michael said, T&C will tell you a lot about what the publisher thinks you can and can't do with their content, and they WILL have contracted lawyers to look at this. Pointing to their content is one thing, Actually reusing it (even if in the same form) is a whole 'nother can'o'worms.
I am only talking about free content which is not paid for, but freely downloadable from websites.
"Free" as in beer does not mean "free" as in speech ;-)
Don't just deep link to someone elses content. Unless you have an explicit agreement with them, you will get a letter from a Lawyer. The rights extend way back to the original source. Even a TV station will be very careful. Strange things like the talent used in a commercial has to explicitly agree to release the content on the web as well as on TV and then in each case the geographic area is closely defined. So an Aust ad can't play in NZ without the talent being compensated (ie paid). In our case we produce and host a lot of content and do allow deep linking - but each URL is closely defined and given to only certain clients - and we always maintain copyright. We may not exercise copyright, but we maintain it. Where a client doen't have a clue, we assert copyright on their behalf. Everything is on a case by case basis.
Absolutely check with a lawyer but I would suspect this would be a big
no-no. Many (most? all?) of these sites have advertising that either shows
on the webpage that loads with the video (e.g. youtube) or an video
advertisement that must play before the actual content (I think TVNZ or TV3
does this). If you cache the content somewhere else, they don't get paid
advertising revenue for everyone who watches it. I think the legality
follows on from there.
Jonathan
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:00 AM, Skeeve Stevens
Again, any thoughts on the NZ situation (legally) regarding this?
--
Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
skeeve(a)eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve
www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego
--
NOC, NOC, who's there?
*From:* ausnog-bounces(a)lists.ausnog.net [mailto: ausnog-bounces(a)lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Skeeve Stevens *Sent:* Friday, 7 August 2009 12:59 AM *To:* ausnog(a)ausnog.net *Subject:* [AusNOG] Content again - legality question
Hey all,
Content question again – but this time a legal question.
For any content that is ‘freely available on the web’ – what is the legality of acquiring this content and delivering it locally?
For example.. many TV stations are uploading full episodes onto their websites after the show has aired.
YouTube would be another example.
I am only talking about free content – which is not paid for, but freely downloadable from websites.
I guess I am talking about a ‘pre-caching’ kind of situation.
Also, does anyone know at what point music becomes legally free to use in Australia?... like books after 50years after the authors death (in the US it is 20).
...Skeeve
--
Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
skeeve(a)eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve
www.linkedin.com/in/skeeve ; facebook.com/eintellego
--
NOC, NOC, who's there?
Disclaimer: Limits of Liability and Disclaimer: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain sensitive and private proprietary or legally privileged information. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. eintellego Pty Ltd and each legal entity in the Tefilah Pty Ltd group of companies reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to be the views of any such entity. Any reference to costs, fee quotations, contractual transactions and variations to contract terms is subject to separate confirmation in writing signed by an authorised representative of eintellego. Whilst all efforts are made to safeguard inbound and outbound e-mails, we cannot guarantee that attachments are virus-free or compatible with your systems and do not accept any liability in respect of viruses or computer problems experienced.
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This list's acceptable use policy states that 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. There are good reasons for this, including the shortage of actual lawyers on the list. - Donald Neal List Administrator -- Donald Neal | "Foolishness has every direction open Research Officer | to it. Wisdon is much more limited in WAND | choice." - Lady Drien The University of Waikato |
Donald Neal wrote:
This list's acceptable use policy states that
7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged.
There are good reasons for this, including the shortage of actual lawyers on the list.
Fair enough, Don, but with the amendment of the Copyright Act, I'd submit that issues relating to the legality of content now qualify as "operational issues" for network operators. It's a good point to note that what is said on here does NOT constitute legal advice, but the lack of lawyers on the list (and I know there are a few who are on it) should not prevent questions being raised. Cheers ~mark
At 10:19 a.m. 7/08/2009, you wrote:
Fair enough, Don, but with the amendment of the Copyright Act, I'd submit that issues relating to the legality of content now qualify as "operational issues" for network operators.
indeed it is. I would probably class my business as an "ISP" in that we run 12 points of presence on the Internet, we peer and "providing content services on the Internet" is just another combination of the words "Internet Service Provider". And copyright, caching, peering are vitally of interest to us. But I understand about the Lawyer bit........and agree with it.
On 7/08/2009, at 10:19 AM, Mark Harris wrote:
Donald Neal wrote:
This list's acceptable use policy states that
7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged.
There are good reasons for this, including the shortage of actual lawyers on the list.
Fair enough, Don, but with the amendment of the Copyright Act, I'd submit that issues relating to the legality of content now qualify as "operational issues" for network operators. It's a good point to note that what is said on here does NOT constitute legal advice, but the lack of lawyers on the list (and I know there are a few who are on it) should not prevent questions being raised.
Given that one person with a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, does more people with a little knowledge make it better? I would say no. I think it would be on topic for someone to announce that they have written a paper on the subject, but, I don't think that detailed discussion is. -- Nathan Ward
participants (8)
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Donald Neal -
Jonathan Woolley -
Mark Harris -
Michael Hutchinson -
Nathan Ward -
Regan Murphy -
Richard Naylor -
Skeeve Stevens