:: [nic(a)woodcut:~] traceroute mta.xtra.co.nz. :: traceroute to mta.xtra.co.nz (203.96.92.132), 30 hops max, :: 38 byte packets :: 1 forest (192.168.) 0.280 ms 0.263 ms 0.219 ms :: 2 water-forest.kpac.co.nz (192.168.) 1.358 ms 0.497 ms 0.437 ms :: 3 fe7-3-2.bertha.paradise.net.nz (203.79.92.1) 36.560 ms :: 18.051 ms 14.315 ms :: 4 210-55-41-1.citylink.xtra.co.nz (210.55.41.1) 16.941 ms :: 14.607 ms 16.841 ms :: 5 203.96.111.217 (203.96.111.217) 28.335 ms 23.983 ms 28.655 ms :: 6 * * * :: 7 * 203.96.111.217 (203.96.111.217) 33.240 ms !A * :: 8 * 203.96.111.217 (203.96.111.217) 33.715 ms !A * :: 9 * * * :: 10 * 203.96.111.217 (203.96.111.217) 32.758 ms !A :: :: :: Routing problem? Looks different from me (from AOL): $ traceroute mta.xtra.co.nz traceroute to mta.xtra.co.nz (203.96.92.132), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 ns1 (192.168.0.253) 0.345 ms 0.210 ms 0.192 ms 2 ip-210-48-100-1.iconz.net.nz (210.48.100.1) 2.787 ms 2.193 ms 2.122 ms 3 s0.ts9.ak.nz.asiaonline.net (210.48.2.1) 12.369 ms 12.438 ms 12.951 ms 4 f0-0.core2.ak.nz.asiaonline.net (202.14.100.221) 11.599 ms 12.332 ms 11.552 ms 5 192.203.154.60 (192.203.154.60) 12.902 ms 16.913 ms 13.792 ms 6 * * * 7 * * * 8 192.203.154.60 (192.203.154.60) 14.970 ms !X * * 9 192.203.154.60 (192.203.154.60) 12.721 ms !X * 13.673 ms !X -- Juha --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Dylan Reeve wrote:

Last I checked (on Friday) a some of the hosts behind that IP respond - I got 1 connection out of 6 attempts.

Maybe we could pass the hat around and get a couple of Linux boxes to act as secondary MX servers for xtra.co.nz ? At least it stops the email clogging up our outgoing smtp servers (we played with them a little as well). -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

At 11:59 AM 4/09/01 +1200, Dylan Reeve wrote:

On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:

...

Noticed lots of mail to Xtra customers stuck in the mail queue on one of ours swervers... doesn't seem like mta.xtra.co.nz is working properly:

...

$ telnet mta.xtra.co.nz. 25 Trying 203.96.92.132... telnet: connect to address 203.96.92.132: Operation timed out telnet: Unable to connect to remote host

Last I checked (on Friday) a some of the hosts behind that IP respond - I got 1 connection out of 6 attempts.

That $7mil will be well spent :)

smtp.xtra.co.nz seems to be down too, although pop3.xtra.co.nz is up....:) Regards, Simon --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

At 01:20 PM 4/09/01 +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:

:: smtp.xtra.co.nz seems to be down too, although :: pop3.xtra.co.nz is up....:)

pop3.xtra.co.nz == mta.xtra.co.nz

Yes, I just noticed that after sending my message :/ What I meant was that it was responding to pop3 connections immediately but smtp was timing out... Sometimes if you wait about 30 seconds it will send an SMTP greeting too...hmm Regards, Simon --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

At 02:03 PM 4/09/01 +1200, Craig Whitmore wrote:

MTA + POP are (I think) just proxy systems for their mail servers (which go to multiple email/pop servers behind it) I think the smtp servers behind the procy are playing up

Or since they're the same ip address its probably a firewall machine with load balancing port forwarding going off to the real servers. Why they don't just have a traditional backup MX (or two :) instead of trying to load balance the same ip address is anyones guess, since other sending MTAs will probably give up and requeue a message if it happens to get forwarded to one of the servers that is down, instead of immediately failing over to a backup MX....(or maybe my understanding is faulty) Regards, Simon --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

This is the NZ Network Operators Group.. We've had input from lots of people here except from the network operators at NZ's biggest ISP network... Simons Idea of setting up some servers as Secondary MX isnt a silly idea but I need to ask the questions: Why hasnt Xtra done it themselves? Why hasnt Xtra contributed to this conversation? For NZ's Biggest ISP theyre remarkably quiet... At 12:59 4/09/2001 +1200, Craig Whitmore wrote:

Looks like a proxy mail server setup which isn't working very right at all :-( but I see exactly the same thing.. we have LOTS of email waiting to go out to xtra

I would have no idea who to contact at Xtra. Xtra is not on the NZNOG contact list web page :-( so I guess I have to go thru the "Normal Channels"

But'll try their help desk

Ring Ring..

current status is there are no problems. - due to heavy load there might be a wait of 10 minutes on hold.... waiting... (hold music) .. Get Xtra Value Pack by pressing "Join Now" on our Home Page (errr.. its not on their home page???? (I looked) )......hold music.. (more advertising).... Music changes and someone forgot to turn up the volume on this music track..(very muffelled as well).. A person "we did have a problem a couple of hours ago" (please wait while the guy talks to someone) .. hold music... [Other staff across the room gets 2 calls about not being able to send email to xtra -( ] ....holding....this music changes the track every 1-2 mins.. can never listen to 1 full piece of music...more hold music . (5 mins later) - "they went down at about 10 this morning and we are still trying to fix them". Sorry but we are working on it.. Thanks..

(click)

Thanks Craig Whitmore Orcon Internet

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dylan Reeve" To: "Juha Saarinen" Cc: "Nznog(a)List. Waikato. Ac. Nz" Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: Re: mta.xtra.co.nz doesn't accept SMTP connects?

...

On Tue, 4 Sep 2001, Juha Saarinen wrote:

...

Noticed lots of mail to Xtra customers stuck in the mail queue on one of ours swervers... doesn't seem like mta.xtra.co.nz is working properly:

...

$ telnet mta.xtra.co.nz. 25 Trying 203.96.92.132... telnet: connect to address 203.96.92.132: Operation timed out telnet: Unable to connect to remote host

Last I checked (on Friday) a some of the hosts behind that IP respond - I got 1 connection out of 6 attempts.

That $7mil will be well spent :)

-- Dylan Reeve - dylan(a)wibble.net It's just not cricket.

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Please delete this message from your archives. ;-) -- Juha :: -----Original Message----- :: From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Juha Saarinen :: Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2001 13:43 :: To: 'Mark Foster'; 'Craig Whitmore'; 'Dylan Reeve' :: Cc: 'Nznog(a)List. Waikato. Ac. Nz' :: Subject: RE: mta.xtra.co.nz doesn't accept SMTP connects? :: :: :: Probably won't work if Xtra uses a custom d/b for user authentication :: etc. :: :: :: -- :: :: Juha :: :: :: -----Original Message----- :: :: From: Mark Foster [mailto:blakjak(a)blakjak.net] :: :: Sent: Tuesday, 4 September 2001 13:40 :: :: To: Craig Whitmore; Dylan Reeve; Juha Saarinen :: :: Cc: Nznog(a)List. Waikato. Ac. Nz :: :: Subject: Re: mta.xtra.co.nz doesn't accept SMTP connects? :: :: :: :: :: :: This is the NZ Network Operators Group.. :: :: We've had input from lots of people here except from the :: :: network operators :: :: at NZ's biggest ISP network... :: :: :: :: Simons Idea of setting up some servers as Secondary MX isnt :: :: a silly idea :: :: but I need to ask the questions: :: :: :: :: Why hasnt Xtra done it themselves? :: :: Why hasnt Xtra contributed to this conversation? :: :: :: :: For NZ's Biggest ISP theyre remarkably quiet... :: :: --------- :: To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: where the body of your message reads: :: unsubscribe nznog :: :: --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

I wonder if there will be a facility similar to what clear.net provides on xtra which check the delay of their MTA by sending an email to hello(a)clear.net.nz which is then processed and sent back with a reply? Simon Byrnand wrote:

At 01:43 PM 4/09/01 +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:

...

Probably won't work if Xtra uses a custom d/b for user authentication etc.

An incomming backup MX doesn't need access to the user database. All it needs to know is what domains (local domains) it should be accepting mail for queuing to the primary MX, and reject the rest. So yes, it would need access to their database of hosted mail domains, but not the actual user database....

Still, theres no reason why xtra themselves couldn't run their backup MX :)

Regards, Simon

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Mark Foster wrote:

Simons Idea of setting up some servers as Secondary MX isnt a silly idea but I need to ask the questions:

Actually, secondary MXs usually are a silly idea, if the MX can't actually do anything useful with the mail apart from queuing it. All they do is take a whole bunch of mail that would otherwise queue at the client end mail server, and put them in one big queue. It doesn't deliver the mail any faster, and if clients have their mail servers' retry timeouts screwed down so that they know in good time that their mail hasn't got through, that decision its taken away from them. Most mailers have a hard time with huge queues of undeliverable mail, so such an MX is not going to be as efficient at dealing with the backlog when the primary comes back up as just leaving the mail where it is on client servers. -- don --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

:: The anoying bit is that Xtra has not acknowledged this in :: public at all, :: we are getting our customers blaming us for delays in email :: getting to :: Xtra addresses. They have, albeit in a somewhat understated fashion: http://xtra.co.nz/help/ -- Juha --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 02:08:41PM +1200, Don Stokes wrote:

Actually, secondary MXs usually are a silly idea, if the MX can't actually do anything useful with the mail apart from queuing it. All they do is take a whole bunch of mail that would otherwise queue at the client end mail server, and put them in one big queue. It doesn't deliver the mail any faster, and if clients have their mail servers' retry timeouts screwed down so that they know in good time that their mail hasn't got through, that decision its taken away from them.

Maybe, but a secondary MX presents the idea that a "problem with my primary MX" is "my problem", rather than "your problem". Why waste your time when I can take it with my backup and delivery it faster when my primary is running again. Particular if your secondaries and primaries communicate via ERTN. Nicholas --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

Sorry everyone for the delay in replying. Have just returned to my desk and caught up on this thread. We're currently experiencing record levels of demand for email sent to and from Xtra customers. This is due in part to our continued growth, as well as to the obvious success of email as a medium for communication. We've spent the past several months planning and designing a new email infrastructure to continue to provide our customers with a carrier-class service. Work has already begun on installation, which is expected to be fully completed within the next eight weeks. The new platform will undoubtedly be the largest in New Zealand, and will easily service our growing base of Xtra customers. In the meantime, we're also adding another MTA to help cope with demand. Please refer to the following press release for more information: http://www.xtrasite.co.nz/media/releases/email.html -- Ted Grenfell Network Operations Manager, Xtra Limited Mob 025 435 455; DDI 09 359 5854; Fax 09 362 8100 Level 14, Xtra Tower, 16 Kingston St, Private Bag 92028, Auckland This email is for the person(s) identified above, and is confidential to the sender and the person(s). No one else is authorised to use or disseminate this email or its contents. The email or its contents do not necessarily represent the views of Xtra Limited or Telecom. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

Juha Saarinen wrote:

:: Please refer to the following press release for more information: :: http://www.xtrasite.co.nz/media/releases/email.html

...

From that Web page:

"Mr Ohlin says the implementation has been designed so that end users won't notice the changeover. "

Yes... well, I don't think it quite worked out that way, unfortunately.

Gee Juha, Can you read?

From the article:

"Ohlin says Xtra's new email platform upgrade, which is planned for installation in October" I coulda sworn it was September this month. Cheers, Andrew --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

Juha Saarinen wrote:

:: Gee Juha, :: :: Can you read? :: :: >From the article: :: :: "Ohlin says Xtra's new email platform upgrade, which is :: planned for installation :: in October" :: :: :: I coulda sworn it was September this month.

Gee Andrew, feeling particularly pedantic this month?

30 days hath September, April, June and November, etc etc ;) --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Aaron wrote:

Is anybody else still have problems with this? Currently we have 15 in our queue - all from earlier today and all for Xtra address. I have increased out timeouts (I think I changed the corrected option in Sendmail). I noticed that http://www.xtra.co.nz/help has been changed back to "Currently there are no known problems on the XTRA network".

I had some connection resets from around 11am this morning. Just emptied the queue for xtra.co.nz on two of our outgoing servers though without any problems. Maybe they only fixed it in the last haor or so. Either that or I've just struck a quiet period. -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog