Fwd: [PAG] Fwd: [isoc-advisory-council] STATEMENT: Internet Society Responds to Reports of the U.S. Government’s Circumvention of Encryption Technology
Given that protocols and standards effect NZ network operators, this
seems to be on topic.
Seeing how IETF handles these issues and rebuilds trust will be interesting.
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From: Alicia Jackson
On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:16 AM, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Seeing how IETF handles these issues and rebuilds trust will be interesting.
There are no purely technical solutions to social ills. Any organization operating under color of law can circumvent encryption entirely by going after the endpoints.
If folks are unhappy with the current state of affairs, they should concentrate on writing laws, not code. Else any code that's written will simply be obviated.
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Roland Dobbins
On 10/09/2013, at 1:59 PM, "Dobbins, Roland"
There are no purely technical solutions to social ills. Any organization operating under color of law can circumvent encryption entirely by going after the endpoints.
If folks are unhappy with the current state of affairs, they should concentrate on writing laws, not code. Else any code that's written will simply be obviated.
I believe ISOC is making that point, too. It does seem odd that it's fine for certain unsupervised surveillance organisations to make use of "hacking" in a manner that would see normal people prosecuted and receive lengthy prison sentences, especially in the United States. Should add some beer to this post now, but Snowden hasn't leaked any as of yet. -- Juha Saarinen twitter: juhasaarinen
On Sep 10, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Juha Saarinen wrote:
I believe ISOC is making that point, too.
Unfortunately, all the technical 'calls to arms' foofaraw is obscuring this point - and so the general populace (those who care, anyways) assume it's a technical problem which will be fixed by technical people, rather than something that they themselves can and must work to address, if they aren't happy with the status quo.
It does seem odd that it's fine for certain unsupervised surveillance organisations to make use of "hacking" in a manner that would see normal people prosecuted and receive lengthy prison sentences, especially in the United States.
All the activity that's been publicly reported rests upon supposedly legal grounds, however specious. Closing loopholes and making the implicit explicit in order to preclude 'generous' interpretations should be the goal of those who are unhappy with the present state of affairs.
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Roland Dobbins
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Dobbins, Roland
On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:16 AM, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Seeing how IETF handles these issues and rebuilds trust will be interesting.
There are no purely technical solutions to social ills. Any organization operating under color of law can circumvent encryption entirely by going after the endpoints.
If folks are unhappy with the current state of affairs, they should concentrate on writing laws, not code. Else any code that's written will simply be obviated.
You mean how it was illegal for the GCSB to do what they did but they did it and got away with it anyway, rewriting of laws?
On Sep 10, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Daniel wrote:
You mean how it was illegal for the GCSB to do what they did but they did it and got away with it anyway, rewriting of laws?
See my subsequent reply.
If folks are unhappy with the current state of affairs, they need to take civic action. Technical effort will likely be wasted effort, otherwise.
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Roland Dobbins
On 10/09/2013, at 1:59 PM, "Dobbins, Roland"
On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:16 AM, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Seeing how IETF handles these issues and rebuilds trust will be interesting.
There are no purely technical solutions to social ills. Any organization operating under color of law can circumvent encryption entirely by going after the endpoints.
If folks are unhappy with the current state of affairs, they should concentrate on writing laws, not code. Else any code that's written will simply be obviated.
I disagree. Some social revolutions (with a small 'r') come from mass movements but just as many come from the invention of new technology. For example, no matter how much the contributory factors to the spread of disease have been tackled (clean water etc), without the development of vaccines we would never have made such progress. History is littered with examples of new technology subverting existing power structures. That's what geeks do. If I wanted to write laws to change the world I'd have had the lobotomy and become a lawyer. PS well off-topic for this list. Jay -- Jay Daley Chief Executive .nz Registry Services (New Zealand Domain Name Registry Limited) desk: +64 4 931 6977 mobile: +64 21 678840 linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jaydaley
On 10/09/2013 2:43 p.m., Jay Daley wrote:
PS well off-topic for this list.
Lobotomy is a technical term related to a network, so I think you're all good :^) Gerard -- Netspace Services Limited http://www.netspace.net.nz Phone +64 4 917 8098 Mobile +64 21 246 2266 Level 4, 191 Thorndon Quay, Thorndon PO Box 12-082, Thorndon, Wellington 6004, New Zealand
participants (6)
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Daniel
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Dean Pemberton
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Dobbins, Roland
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Gerard Creamer
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Jay Daley
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Juha Saarinen