Thanks all, i posted to the list to see if i could get hold of someone with some real idea on a solution to my problem, (and preferably not a first level helpdesk person if at all possible), trying to get from them to someone who knows something sometimes feels like a lot of effort, but it appears my plan has worked. i expected a wait for a reply, but it arrived a lot quicker than expected. thankyou nznoggers... resume surfing / irc / whatever geeks do at this time of night (except for the shift working noc staff, get back to work)