Australian Bill - "10 years for hacker toolkits, scanners and virus code."
I've read some of the discussion at, http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/07/0132226 and wonder if anyone has any reassurance to offer about the NZ bill? I'm presuming the practitioners on this list will be in some kind of grey area in this legislation, unless the State wishes to introduce a form of licensing, a la Car Salesmen, Security Guards, Doctor, and Network Operator who is granted specific exemptions regarding the general provisions of the law. The other, supra-legislative, issue that might have an operational impact on the operation of the Internet in NZ is this Hague Treaty expansion, at the behest of the usual beneficiaries, to encompass content law. Is there any concern that NZ ISPs will become liable, if the law is so elsewhere in the world? Hamish. -- The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -- Marcel Proust --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sun, 8 Jul 2001, Hamish MacEwan wrote:
I've read some of the discussion at, http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/07/0132226
Hah! Excellent stuff. Apple's new MacOS X comes with a portscanner built into the GUI. Ten years in the slammer for the Apple developers then, or no MacOS X for Australia.
and wonder if anyone has any reassurance to offer about the NZ bill?
None whatsoever. Rest assured that the more ludicrous the provision, the greater chance it has to make it into the statutes books. Don't believe me? Look at how UK did it. www.stand.org.uk -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 04:20:40PM +1200, Hamish MacEwan wrote: I've read some of the discussion at, http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/07/0132226 and wonder if anyone has any reassurance to offer about the NZ bill? There is a global trend form politicians to take things they don't understand (i.e. words with more than two syllables and in general any kind of technology) and pass laws constraining how the industry is required to behave, without fully understanding any of the implications of what they are doing. New Zealand is no different, it is probably worse in many respects. I wish I could blame Labour, but the current government is only marginally more inept than the previous one. The real problem is that as a society we tolerate these total utter clueless cretins to 'govern the country' --- and when they do the most ludicrous inept things, sure, we get upset, for about two months, but come election day, The Disgusting Maggots Of Power are back. Leave now. While you can. Just leave! Don't walk, RUN! For those with families and such like who cannot escape the clutches of ineptitude and taxation based oppression, and for those who know it doesn't get much better elsewhere! The best you can do is contact you local politician (call early Monday, insist they talk to you, pretend you are an old friend from school, say you used to share needles or something, that often works) and ask of them what their position on the issue is (they will probably not have much to say here, maybe mumble something about poverty in their electorate and that being the biggest concern). Find out from there whom to contact and how with regards to what committees are looking at such things, and hopefully, if enough people do this, a few politicians will actually take and interest and help work with US (the people who technically do have a few ideas) and the select committee in not making a complete mess of things. Things to remember if you do want to talk to them: -- Call Monday, many send Tue -> Fri in Wellington -- Make sure they hear you name, what you do, and why you are concerned. Let them know you will be a thorn in their side if need be. -- Remember, when it comes to technology, most of these people have no education beyond what they got at school --- and for some of them, that was quite some time ago. -- Find out as much as you can from them of what is happenning, somewhere there will be a committee looking into this. Try to get documents on what they are presently doing and find out how to particiapte. Find out who is on the committee (usually what are supposed to be industry representatives, often people like former senior IT managers and we know how many clues some of them have). Or, just leave. Its easier. Really it is. --cw --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
I second everything Chris says, and would like to point out that by the looks of it, you'll get a harsher sentence for portscanning than for many serious crimes against a person, should the bill go through. Before someone says that this is OT, please note that the network providers will be in the thick of it. -- Juha :: There is a global trend form politicians to take things they don't :: understand (i.e. words with more than two syllables and in :: general any :: kind of technology) and pass laws constraining how the industry is :: required to behave, without fully understanding any of the :: implications of what they are doing. :: :: New Zealand is no different, it is probably worse in many respects. :: :: I wish I could blame Labour, but the current government is only :: marginally more inept than the previous one. The real :: problem is that :: as a society we tolerate these total utter clueless cretins :: to 'govern :: the country' --- and when they do the most ludicrous inept things, :: sure, we get upset, for about two months, but come election day, The :: Disgusting Maggots Of Power are back. :: :: Leave now. While you can. Just leave! Don't walk, RUN! :: :: :: For those with families and such like who cannot escape the clutches :: of ineptitude and taxation based oppression, and for those :: who know it :: doesn't get much better elsewhere! The best you can do is :: contact you :: local politician (call early Monday, insist they talk to you, pretend :: you are an old friend from school, say you used to share needles or :: something, that often works) and ask of them what their position on :: the issue is (they will probably not have much to say here, maybe :: mumble something about poverty in their electorate and that being the :: biggest concern). :: :: Find out from there whom to contact and how with regards to what :: committees are looking at such things, and hopefully, if :: enough people :: do this, a few politicians will actually take and interest and help :: work with US (the people who technically do have a few ideas) and the :: select committee in not making a complete mess of things. :: :: Things to remember if you do want to talk to them: :: :: -- Call Monday, many send Tue -> Fri in Wellington :: :: -- Make sure they hear you name, what you do, and why you are :: concerned. Let them know you will be a thorn in their side if :: need be. :: :: -- Remember, when it comes to technology, most of these :: people have :: no education beyond what they got at school --- and for some of :: them, that was quite some time ago. :: :: -- Find out as much as you can from them of what is happenning, :: somewhere there will be a committee looking into this. Try to :: get documents on what they are presently doing and find out how :: to particiapte. Find out who is on the committee (usually what :: are supposed to be industry representatives, often people like :: former senior IT managers and we know how many clues some of :: them have). :: :: :: Or, just leave. Its easier. Really it is. :: :: :: :: --cw :: :: --------- :: To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: where the body of your message reads: :: unsubscribe nznog :: :: --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Now the funny thing that appeared to me was the following. While I worked for Lucent they had an internal team of nazi^H^H^H^Hsecurity 'experts' These people would portscan anything that came within a wiff of a network port. Might be fun to have an arrest warrent taken out on them =) Dean On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 10:44:44PM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
I second everything Chris says, and would like to point out that by the looks of it, you'll get a harsher sentence for portscanning than for many serious crimes against a person, should the bill go through.
Before someone says that this is OT, please note that the network providers will be in the thick of it.
--
Juha
:: There is a global trend form politicians to take things they don't :: understand (i.e. words with more than two syllables and in :: general any :: kind of technology) and pass laws constraining how the industry is :: required to behave, without fully understanding any of the :: implications of what they are doing. :: :: New Zealand is no different, it is probably worse in many respects. :: :: I wish I could blame Labour, but the current government is only :: marginally more inept than the previous one. The real :: problem is that :: as a society we tolerate these total utter clueless cretins :: to 'govern :: the country' --- and when they do the most ludicrous inept things, :: sure, we get upset, for about two months, but come election day, The :: Disgusting Maggots Of Power are back. :: :: Leave now. While you can. Just leave! Don't walk, RUN! :: :: :: For those with families and such like who cannot escape the clutches :: of ineptitude and taxation based oppression, and for those :: who know it :: doesn't get much better elsewhere! The best you can do is :: contact you :: local politician (call early Monday, insist they talk to you, pretend :: you are an old friend from school, say you used to share needles or :: something, that often works) and ask of them what their position on :: the issue is (they will probably not have much to say here, maybe :: mumble something about poverty in their electorate and that being the :: biggest concern). :: :: Find out from there whom to contact and how with regards to what :: committees are looking at such things, and hopefully, if :: enough people :: do this, a few politicians will actually take and interest and help :: work with US (the people who technically do have a few ideas) and the :: select committee in not making a complete mess of things. :: :: Things to remember if you do want to talk to them: :: :: -- Call Monday, many send Tue -> Fri in Wellington :: :: -- Make sure they hear you name, what you do, and why you are :: concerned. Let them know you will be a thorn in their side if :: need be. :: :: -- Remember, when it comes to technology, most of these :: people have :: no education beyond what they got at school --- and for some of :: them, that was quite some time ago. :: :: -- Find out as much as you can from them of what is happenning, :: somewhere there will be a committee looking into this. Try to :: get documents on what they are presently doing and find out how :: to particiapte. Find out who is on the committee (usually what :: are supposed to be industry representatives, often people like :: former senior IT managers and we know how many clues some of :: them have). :: :: :: Or, just leave. Its easier. Really it is. :: :: :: :: --cw :: :: --------- :: To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz :: where the body of your message reads: :: unsubscribe nznog :: ::
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On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Dean Pemberton wrote:
Now the funny thing that appeared to me was the following.
While I worked for Lucent they had an internal team of nazi^H^H^H^Hsecurity 'experts' These people would portscan anything that came within a wiff of a network port. Might be fun to have an arrest warrent taken out on them =)
"What are you here for?" "Portscanning." "Jesus... you're a hard man..." ;-) -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
You forgor one thing Chris.... you should NEVER vote for them, it only encourages them.. :-) --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
You forgor one thing Chris.... you should NEVER vote for them, it only encourages them.. :-)
Thing is.. this never really solves anything.. all it means is that the intelligent people don't vote for someone who is at least bearable and we end up with the party voted in by the lowest common denominator (this usually happens anyway mind you). Technically (if you work within the rules) our line of recourse is to form your own political party based on technological concerns and hire only technically minded party members. Problem is the chance of this party ever getting in is about that of me ever becoming a CCIE. And they'd probably make a bolloxing of just about everything else since I don't know about you but I sure wouldn't know how to balance a Military budget with School spending ;) Really there is no easy way to win and politics is by and large a thing I try to ignore and hope the laws go mostly my way. If they don't.. I'll bitch but as to actually becoming formative in laws... that's a hard trick. But this is really pretty off topic so I'll shut up now. Chris Rigby Senior Systems Engineer IHUG - Into the Internet --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 09:01:14AM +1200, Chris Rigby wrote:
Problem is the chance of this party ever getting in is about that of me ever becoming a CCIE.
Because they would be no good at it? Or because they just don't give enough of a shit about it? I know whats keeping ME from becoming a CCIE =) (smart remarks from Juha/RDS/Jabley to /dev/null =) ) --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
At 10:39 AM +1200 9/7/01, Dean Pemberton wrote:
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 09:01:14AM +1200, Chris Rigby wrote:
Problem is the chance of this party ever getting in is about that of me ever becoming a CCIE.
Because they would be no good at it? Or because they just don't give enough of a shit about it?
I know whats keeping ME from becoming a CCIE =)
Because you're an idiot?
(smart remarks from Juha/RDS/Jabley to /dev/null =) )
Never, EVER, leave me out of a /dev/null list. It upsets me. -- Andrew P. Gardner barcelona.com stolen, stmoritz.com stays. What's uniform about the UDRP? We could ask ICANN to send WIPO a clue, but do they have any to spare? Get active: http://www.tldlobby.com --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 10:39:48AM +1200, Dean Pemberton wrote: I know whats keeping ME from becoming a CCIE =) There is a scene in a movie where someone rants on for a while, at the end he tells everyone they are stupider people for listening to him. Maybe thats why? --cw --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Could be =) How do you feel? Dumber? On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:28:35PM +1200, Chris Wedgwood wrote:
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 10:39:48AM +1200, Dean Pemberton wrote:
I know whats keeping ME from becoming a CCIE =)
There is a scene in a movie where someone rants on for a while, at the end he tells everyone they are stupider people for listening to him.
Maybe thats why?
--cw
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participants (7)
-
Andy Gardner -
Chris Rigby -
Chris Wedgwood -
Dean Pemberton -
Gordon Smith -
Hamish MacEwan -
Juha Saarinen