In this case no... they have carried across the 2014 percentages from the 2013 column... It's a basic, basic, basic error that I wouldn’t expect Stats NZ to make. (All 3 values are wrong in the 2014 percentage column are wrong... they are listed as 67/32/1 and should be 69/29/2) But I'm sure (apart from the other error I noted) that the rest of the spreadsheet is accurate right? We should all just believe it? Shouldn't we? Cheers - N -----Original Message----- From: Jay Daley [mailto:jay(a)nzrs.net.nz] Sent: Friday, 16 October 2015 11:29 a.m. To: Neil Gardner Cc: nznog Subject: Re: [nznog] Stats NZ ISP survey

On 16/10/2015, at 9:57 AM, Neil Gardner wrote:

And 30 seconds in I find a mistake :-)

Table 3, BB connection access technology table...

2014 to 2015 Fibre Optic connections went from 46000 to 105000 Or, in the percentage table below... Went from 1 to 5 percent...

The correct numbers (assuming the number of connections are right) are 2.4% to 5.45%

I think they apply the random rounding by 3 to the counts and percentages independently. Jay

But hey...

Cheers - N

-----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Jay Daley Sent: Friday, 16 October 2015 9:47 a.m. To: nznog Subject: [nznog] Stats NZ ISP survey

Those of you that use the ISP survey from Stats NZ might like to know that the’ve reissued it, silently, following discovery of discrepancies between this release and previous releases for historical data. Basically they re-ran the random rounding for historical data and got different random values from before. This is now fixed and the latest spreadsheet is consistent with previous ones.

http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/ISPSurvey/H...

Jay

-- Jay Daley Chief Executive NZRS Ltd desk: +64 4 931 6977 mobile: +64 21 678840 linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jaydaley

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The stats come from an annual ISP survey done by the Department of Statistics. Survey returns are compulsory, but the figures are self-reports by ISPs using their own interpretations of the categories. In most cases, ISPs will report "business users" as users of "business" plans, but other divisions may be used. The individual ISPs are probably in a better position than anyone else to report proportions of business vs residential usage, but you still need to apply appropriate condiments to the numbers. In many cases, an ISP may not know if a customer is operating as a business or not. As you observe, many connections are used for both residential and business purposes, and I can't imagine any ISP putting any serious research into this for the sake of answering one question on one annual survey. There are other questions that may also suffer an element of this kind of fuzz. Again, check your sodium intake. -- don On 16/10/15 14:39, Stan Rivett wrote:

I hope this isn't too far off topic but it goes to the accuracy of the actual stats.

How does everyone decide on what is and isn't a business connection when completing the survey? I'm guessing its reasonably straight-forward for those of you dealing with UFB / DSL but out here in rural wireless land the line is pretty blurry. These are some fairly substantial businesses being run from family homes.

Cheers

Stan Rivett ------------------ Netspeed PO Box 5691 Dunedin P: +64 3 481 7245 tel:%2B64%203%20481%207245 C: +64 21 323 841 tel:%2B64%2021%20323%20841 ------------------

On 16 October 2015 at 11:37, Neil Gardner mailto:Neil.Gardner(a)spark.co.nz> wrote:

In this case no... they have carried across the 2014 percentages from the 2013 column... It's a basic, basic, basic error that I wouldn’t expect Stats NZ to make.

(All 3 values are wrong in the 2014 percentage column are wrong... they are listed as 67/32/1 and should be 69/29/2)

But I'm sure (apart from the other error I noted) that the rest of the spreadsheet is accurate right? We should all just believe it? Shouldn't we?

Cheers - N

-----Original Message----- From: Jay Daley [mailto:jay(a)nzrs.net.nz mailto:jay(a)nzrs.net.nz] Sent: Friday, 16 October 2015 11:29 a.m. To: Neil Gardner mailto:Neil.Gardner(a)spark.co.nz> Cc: nznog mailto:nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> Subject: Re: [nznog] Stats NZ ISP survey

> On 16/10/2015, at 9:57 AM, Neil Gardner mailto:Neil.Gardner(a)spark.co.nz> wrote: > > And 30 seconds in I find a mistake :-) > > Table 3, BB connection access technology table... > > 2014 to 2015 Fibre Optic connections went from 46000 to 105000 > Or, in the percentage table below... Went from 1 to 5 percent... > > The correct numbers (assuming the number of connections are right) are 2.4% to 5.45%

I think they apply the random rounding by 3 to the counts and percentages independently.

Jay

> > But hey... > > Cheers - N > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Jay Daley > Sent: Friday, 16 October 2015 9:47 a.m. > To: nznog mailto:nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Subject: [nznog] Stats NZ ISP survey > > Those of you that use the ISP survey from Stats NZ might like to know that the’ve reissued it, silently, following discovery of discrepancies between this release and previous releases for historical data. Basically they re-ran the random rounding for historical data and got different random values from before. This is now fixed and the latest spreadsheet is consistent with previous ones. > > http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/ISPSurvey/H... http://www.stats.govt.nz/%7E/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/ISPSurvey... > > Jay > > -- > Jay Daley > Chief Executive > NZRS Ltd > desk: +64 4 931 6977 tel:%2B64%204%20931%206977 > mobile: +64 21 678840 tel:%2B64%2021%20678840 > linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jaydaley http://www.linkedin.com/in/jaydaley > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz mailto:NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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In my mind the most statistically useful division between residential and business might be whether the account is signed up under a personal entity, or a registered company/charity/etc. That'd be a fairly coarse filter; there are of course plenty of overlaps, in the home-business market and in the rural sense where connections may be aggregated and have multiple uses, etc. In other news I don't suppose there's anyone from Stats on NZNOG who could invite a more structured response to the concerns being raised about the validity of the stats? If ISP's are obliged to take the time to send a return, it seems chronically wasteful if the data can't be trusted. Mark. On 16/10/2015 4:10 p.m., Stan Rivett wrote:

Hi Don

Yes, that's why I asked. I scratch my head over the Business / Residential division every time I do the survey. My method of categorising it comes down to something like:

IIf( query.company eq '' , "Residential", "Business")

Not, I suspect, a very scientific method ;-)

Cheers

Stan Rivett ------------------ Netspeed PO Box 5691 Dunedin P: +64 3 481 7245 C: +64 21 323 841 ------------------

On 16 October 2015 at 15:14, Don Stokes mailto:don(a)daedalus.co.nz> wrote:

The stats come from an annual ISP survey done by the Department of Statistics. Survey returns are compulsory, but the figures are self-reports by ISPs using their own interpretations of the categories. In most cases, ISPs will report "business users" as users of "business" plans, but other divisions may be used.

The individual ISPs are probably in a better position than anyone else to report proportions of business vs residential usage, but you still need to apply appropriate condiments to the numbers. In many cases, an ISP may not know if a customer is operating as a business or not. As you observe, many connections are used for both residential and business purposes, and I can't imagine any ISP putting any serious research into this for the sake of answering one question on one annual survey.

There are other questions that may also suffer an element of this kind of fuzz. Again, check your sodium intake.

-- don

*snip*

This one is probably "TrueNet optimised”. -- Nathan Ward

On 16/10/2015, at 10:33, Neil Gardner wrote:

Additionally, I find it interesting that 45% of BB subscribers have an upload speed of between 1.5 and 10Mbps.

Given they specifically exclude mobile phone connections from this table (Table 4), I would question that number.

I thought you said this was the fixed document!

Cheers - N

-----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Jay Daley Sent: Friday, 16 October 2015 9:47 a.m. To: nznog Subject: [nznog] Stats NZ ISP survey

Those of you that use the ISP survey from Stats NZ might like to know that the’ve reissued it, silently, following discovery of discrepancies between this release and previous releases for historical data. Basically they re-ran the random rounding for historical data and got different random values from before. This is now fixed and the latest spreadsheet is consistent with previous ones.

http://www.stats.govt.nz/~/media/Statistics/Browse%20for%20stats/ISPSurvey/H...

Jay

-- Jay Daley Chief Executive NZRS Ltd desk: +64 4 931 6977 mobile: +64 21 678840 linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jaydaley

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