yes, prepaid - http://www.mysurf.net.nz btw, users on mysurf ( which has just ben launched ) are address translated and blocked from accessing Asia Online Mail servers or news servers. They only have web-based mail. if you have any problems with anti-social activities from mysurf pre-paid users please email helpdesk(a)nz.asiaonline.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Joe Abley Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:01 a.m. To: Shane Cole Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Internet Surveillance On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 08:53:43AM +1300, Shane Cole wrote:
Just one thing, what are they going to do about people using prepaid ^^^^^^^ internet on prepaid cellular to do there naughtyness...
Prepaid? --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Are they blocked also from accessing any smtp servers, not just the Asia Online ones? On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Tony Wicks wrote:
yes, prepaid - http://www.mysurf.net.nz
btw, users on mysurf ( which has just ben launched ) are address translated and blocked from accessing Asia Online Mail servers or news servers. They only have web-based mail. if you have any problems with anti-social activities from mysurf pre-paid users please email helpdesk(a)nz.asiaonline.net
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Joe Abley Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:01 a.m. To: Shane Cole Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Internet Surveillance
On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 08:53:43AM +1300, Shane Cole wrote:
Just one thing, what are they going to do about people using prepaid ^^^^^^^ internet on prepaid cellular to do there naughtyness...
Prepaid? --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
yes, prepaid - http://www.mysurf.net.nz
btw, users on mysurf ( which has just ben launched ) are address
no, just ours, but you will only have a problem if you run an open relay mail server eh.. If anyone wants their mail servers, etc blocked please email me. <hide from the flack mode on> ps. I did not invent this product, I am in no way responsible for it's conception. <normal mode returned> -----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Jeremy Clyma Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:24 a.m. To: Tony Wicks Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: Internet Surveillance Are they blocked also from accessing any smtp servers, not just the Asia Online ones? On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Tony Wicks wrote: translated
and blocked from accessing Asia Online Mail servers or news servers. They only have web-based mail. if you have any problems with anti-social activities from mysurf pre-paid users please email helpdesk(a)nz.asiaonline.net
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Joe Abley Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:01 a.m. To: Shane Cole Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Internet Surveillance
On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 08:53:43AM +1300, Shane Cole wrote:
Just one thing, what are they going to do about people using prepaid ^^^^^^^ internet on prepaid cellular to do there naughtyness...
Prepaid? --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
No, its not only a problem if you run an open relay.... Certain individuals provide lists of badly secured smtp servers which I can just see a prepaid spammer for hire, abusing to their hearts content. Even if *you're* smtp servers are secure, doesn't necessarily mean that downstreams off yourselves are. This is the continual battle that I find myself in. By blocking outbound port 25 access to everywhere on the prepaid users profile, you'll be doing .nz and the world a nice favour. On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Tony Wicks wrote:
no, just ours, but you will only have a problem if you run an open relay mail server eh.. If anyone wants their mail servers, etc blocked please email me.
<hide from the flack mode on> ps. I did not invent this product, I am in no way responsible for it's conception. <normal mode returned>
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Jeremy Clyma Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:24 a.m. To: Tony Wicks Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: Internet Surveillance
Are they blocked also from accessing any smtp servers, not just the Asia Online ones?
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Tony Wicks wrote:
yes, prepaid - http://www.mysurf.net.nz
btw, users on mysurf ( which has just ben launched ) are address translated and blocked from accessing Asia Online Mail servers or news servers. They only have web-based mail. if you have any problems with anti-social activities from mysurf pre-paid users please email helpdesk(a)nz.asiaonline.net
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Joe Abley Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:01 a.m. To: Shane Cole Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Internet Surveillance
On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 08:53:43AM +1300, Shane Cole wrote:
Just one thing, what are they going to do about people using prepaid ^^^^^^^ internet on prepaid cellular to do there naughtyness...
Prepaid? --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
We will not be blocking these users from outgoing p25 as one of the target markets is the corporate traveller accessing their mail. If they have a system set up so that they authenticate to their mail server before sending mail via their corporate mail server then they should be allowed to. Also, incase you had not noticed it is very easy to set up a bogus "free" isp account on *some* free providors in this country and send all the smtp mail they want. I would expect spammers to do this way before paying money to do so. If there turns out to be a problem, then it will obvously be revisited. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Jeremy Clyma Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:41 a.m. To: Tony Wicks Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: Internet Surveillance No, its not only a problem if you run an open relay.... Certain individuals provide lists of badly secured smtp servers which I can just see a prepaid spammer for hire, abusing to their hearts content. Even if *you're* smtp servers are secure, doesn't necessarily mean that downstreams off yourselves are. This is the continual battle that I find myself in. By blocking outbound port 25 access to everywhere on the prepaid users profile, you'll be doing .nz and the world a nice favour. On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Tony Wicks wrote:
no, just ours, but you will only have a problem if you run an open relay mail server eh.. If anyone wants their mail servers, etc blocked please email me.
<hide from the flack mode on> ps. I did not invent this product, I am in no way responsible for it's conception. <normal mode returned>
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Jeremy Clyma Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:24 a.m. To: Tony Wicks Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: Internet Surveillance
Are they blocked also from accessing any smtp servers, not just the Asia Online ones?
On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Tony Wicks wrote:
yes, prepaid - http://www.mysurf.net.nz
btw, users on mysurf ( which has just ben launched ) are address translated and blocked from accessing Asia Online Mail servers or news servers. They only have web-based mail. if you have any problems with anti-social activities from mysurf pre-paid users please email helpdesk(a)nz.asiaonline.net
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Joe Abley Sent: Monday, 13 November 2000 9:01 a.m. To: Shane Cole Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: Internet Surveillance
On Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 08:53:43AM +1300, Shane Cole wrote:
Just one thing, what are they going to do about people using prepaid ^^^^^^^ internet on prepaid cellular to do there naughtyness...
Prepaid? --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
mail via their corporate mail server then they should be allowed to. Also, incase you had not noticed it is very easy to set up a bogus "free" isp account on *some* free providors in this country and send all the smtp mail they want. I would expect spammers to do this way before paying money to do
A free ISP that I used for a week or two this year blocked port 25/110 incoming and outgoing, enforcing web-mail, and in my opinion, this is a bloody good idea. Tim J. Shackleton ------------------+ +- Business http://www.netlink.co.nz/ Networks Admin/Programmer ----------+ +- Personal http://www.netnet.net.nz/ Netlink LTD -- DDI +64 4 922 8476 --+ +------------- Pager 64 +26 253 4356 +64 29 650 476 -- Cellular ---------+ +------------------------------------ ---- " Don't just call me pessimist, try to read between the lines. " ----- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
By blocking outbound port 25 access to everywhere on the prepaid users profile, you'll be doing .nz and the world a nice favour.
But then you get everybody who is running a *nix box at home complaining cause they can't deliver their email directly. Some customers who send a lot of email we'd pretty much prefer they delivered their email diirect rather than sending it via our servers. Actually when I say some customers I mean Travel Agents, do other people have the same problem? We find that 90% of the time the customer with 100 connections to the smtp server is a travel agent. -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On 13 Nov 2000, at 10:09, Simon Lyall wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
By blocking outbound port 25 access to everywhere on the prepaid users profile, you'll be doing .nz and the world a nice favour.
But then you get everybody who is running a *nix box at home complaining cause they can't deliver their email directly. Some customers who send a lot of email we'd pretty much prefer they delivered their email diirect rather than sending it via our servers.
It's good to see someone noticing the "power" users. They are not uncommon. Policy is a good thing. Policy is used to determine what you do in most cases. It's not what you do in every case. Exceptions must be made. Perhaps on a case by case basis. -- Dan Langille The FreeBSD Diary - http://www.freebsddiary.org/ FreshPorts - http://freshports.org/ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
I agree that exceptions have to be made, but they should be exceptions, and not the rule. The problem I have with this is that there are few *users* that know how to correctly configure a smtp server, so that it is not open to relay rape. On more than one occassion, we've have downstreams who run their own smtp server, upgrade their mta software, only for the previous anti-relaying configuration to be overwritten and subsequently open to relay abuse. BTW isn't it time for a NZNOG pissu^H^H^H meeting again soon? On Mon, 13 Nov 2000, Simon Lyall wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
By blocking outbound port 25 access to everywhere on the prepaid users profile, you'll be doing .nz and the world a nice favour.
But then you get everybody who is running a *nix box at home complaining cause they can't deliver their email directly. Some customers who send a lot of email we'd pretty much prefer they delivered their email diirect rather than sending it via our servers.
Actually when I say some customers I mean Travel Agents, do other people have the same problem? We find that 90% of the time the customer with 100 connections to the smtp server is a travel agent.
--------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
By blocking outbound port 25 access to everywhere on the prepaid users profile, you'll be doing .nz and the world a nice favour.
But then you get everybody who is running a *nix box at home complaining cause they can't deliver their email directly. Some customers who send a lot of email we'd pretty much prefer they delivered their email diirect rather than sending it via our servers.
And everyone that has scripts that mail stuff, mailing lists, or browser-incapable machines (you try running netscape on my 4M 486 laptop!) or wives.. do you know how much crap I'd be in if I had to tie up the phone line for the whole time I was reading and replying to my mail? --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Sun, Nov 12, 2000 at 20:41 +0000, Jeremy Clyma wrote:
By blocking outbound port 25 access to everywhere on the prepaid users profile, you'll be doing .nz and the world a nice favour.
I changed the subject slightly because there is an issue I've been meaning to raise in this forum, and this suggestion of blocking a port to ameliorate (and certainly not solve) a problem like spam is probably as good a hook as any to hang it on. I'm more and more concerned that the distributed diagnostic capability of the Internet, you know, the way anyone can, with a little study and a few tools, do quite a bit to discover faults and decide whether it is you, the ISP, the server at the far end, etc... I suspect it is this "self-diagnosis" and ad-hoc notification to operators that means such a large and diverse network can continue to operate with proportionally few staff (very very capable ones of course, but still I get the impression the per-user ratio would be much less than one of these lumbering, fascist internal networks that Corporates bind themselves to.) However, more and more, I find ICMP messages being blocked, screwing up MTU discovery, traceroute, sometimes even ping... While this might deal with some problems, I'm interested to hear the opinions of this list on the degree to which this drives Help Desk and support calls. If I can't tell if it's me, the ISP, or the server at the far end, I will have to call... wade through first level response (and the effectiveness of that has been mentioned here recently) and generally not be certain of what I'm talking about, or able to offer authoritative evidence of the diagnosis... My interest then is, does the removal of access to these diagnostic tools increase or decrease the reliability and usefulness of the Net? Hamish. PS. Not operationally aligned to any IP operation, but wildly interested in them all. -- Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward together in the same direction. -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
participants (7)
-
Bruce Kingsbury -
Dan Langille -
Hamish MacEwan -
Jeremy Clyma -
Simon Lyall -
Tim Shackleton -
Tony Wicks