TFA indicates that there is no RC concept, and that the list is moderated by an independent group, however the list contents will not become public. Nevertheless I have just asked my ISP if they are planning to do any filtering... Jevon On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:44 AM, McDonald Richards wrote:

Out of curiosity does the NZ list also contain RC (refused classification) material or is it purely child pornography – or are people being kept in the dark about the exact contents of the list? Is it as useless as the proposed AU one which will only stop HTTP?

I guess you can say this is an issue close to all of our hearts (Aussies that is) at the moment - both because of the wasted tax payers money (what good is a filter that doesn’t work) and the ability for our government to censor what the public servants perceive as restricted content at whim!

Macca

*From:* nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wicks *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 February 2010 9:25 AM

*To:* nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz *Subject:* [nznog] DIA Filters

I don’t suppose anyone is prepared to comment on If particular ISP’s intend to adopt whatever this is ?

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/NZ-s-filter-starts-next-mont...

*Tony Wicks | Network Architect Team Leader** **DDI* +64 9 978 8328 |* **Mobile* +64 21 965362

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A minor correction. They are not filtering for all objectionable material, but just the sub-set which is deemed child pornography. Objectionable material is defined in s3(2) of the FVPA as: A publication shall be deemed to be objectionable for the purposes of this Act if the publication promotes or supports, or tends to promote or support,- * (a) The exploitation of children, or young persons, or both, for sexual purposes; or * (b) The use of violence or coercion to compel any person to participate in, or submit to, sexual conduct; or * (c) Sexual conduct with or upon the body of a dead person; or * (d) The use of urine or excrement in association with degrading or dehumanising conduct or sexual conduct; or * (e) Bestiality; or * (f) Acts of torture or the infliction of extreme violence or extreme cruelty. Only those that fall under (a) are subject to the filter. DPF _____ From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Brislen, Paul, VF-NZ Sent: Wednesday, 17 February 2010 11:49 a.m. To: McDonald Richards; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] DIA Filters As I understand it (and I'm not that close I must say) it's purely about objectionable material as defined by the DIA. Any site that is blocked must be assessed by two or more investigators and meet the DIA criteria for objectionable material. The approach isn't to prosecute anyone who does surf to these sites but to warn them off. It's purely a play to stop the curious from getting into a massive amount of trouble. I think the DIA would be first to say they don't expect this will stop all trafficking in child porn but rather that this is about helping stop the idle surfing turning into a nightmare. But as I say, this isn't an official statement on behalf of the company, just what I've gleaned in the last few months. Maybe we can ask the DIA to post a statement or comment here? Cheers Paul Paul Brislen Head of Corporate Communications Vodafone New Zealand 021 721 337 From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of McDonald Richards Sent: Wednesday, 17 February 2010 11:45 a.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] DIA Filters Out of curiosity does the NZ list also contain RC (refused classification) material or is it purely child pornography - or are people being kept in the dark about the exact contents of the list? Is it as useless as the proposed AU one which will only stop HTTP? I guess you can say this is an issue close to all of our hearts (Aussies that is) at the moment - both because of the wasted tax payers money (what good is a filter that doesn't work) and the ability for our government to censor what the public servants perceive as restricted content at whim! Macca From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Wicks Sent: Wednesday, 17 February 2010 9:25 AM To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [nznog] DIA Filters I don't suppose anyone is prepared to comment on If particular ISP's intend to adopt whatever this is ? <http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/NZ-s-filter-starts-next-mon th/0,130061791,339301140,00.htm> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/NZ-s-filter-starts-next-mont h/0,130061791,339301140,00.htm Tony Wicks | Network Architect Team Leader DDI +64 9 978 8328 | Mobile +64 21 965362 Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you may not read, use, copy or disclose this email. If you are not the intended recipient, please let us know by reply e-mail immediately and then delete this email from your system. We shall not be responsible for any changes to, or interception of, this email or any attachment after it leaves our information systems. We accept no responsibility for viruses or defects in this email or any attachments. _____ Unless otherwise stated, any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not represent those of Vodafone New Zealand Limited. _____

On 17/02/10 2:55 PM, David Farrar wrote:

Only those that fall under (a) are subject to the filter.

It's not often dpf and I agree (alert the press), but this is indeed the aim of the filter. I am part of the Independent Reference Group, mainly because I don't believe the filter will work, and because I am implacably opposed to any extension of it. The members of the IRG are: Nic McCully Deputy Chief Censor Office of Film & Literature Classification Nic Johnstone Office of the Children’s Commissioner Steve O’Brien Manager, Censorship Compliance Unit Department of Internal Affairs Mark Harris Technology Research & Consulting Andrew Bowater Government Relations Manager Telecom Duncan Campbell Deputy Editor Netguide My understanding is that this is not an exclusive list and may be added to if the need arises. The Independent Reference Group hasn't met yet. The first meeting will be in early March. One of the first things I will be pushing for is publication of ISPs that have decided to join the scheme. I can understand why they would, and I expect it to be a marketing point for them. As Jordan has said, it is an HTTP filter (which is why it won't work, as most of the really bad stuff passes through email, exclusive file sharing arrangements and the like). Anyone serious about obtaining images of child abuse (CAI in the jargon) will find it trivial to get around the filter. As I said to Thomas Beagle (www.techlibertynz.org) the other day, I think it's security theatre, designed to make some sectors of the community feel safer. Officials at DIA have assured me that they do not want to extend it, even to cover the other parts of s3(2), or I would not have agreed to be a part of the process at all. As TFA says, they have watched the train wreck that is the Great Wall of Conroy (my words, not theirs) and are determined to not make those sorts of errors. However, we all need to understand that DIA can be instructed to follow Government policy. We need to monitor the policy making process and head any 'slippery slope' plans off at the political level. I am mightily encouraged that InternetNZ is engaging with DIA on this. For those unaware, while a councillor of InternetNZ, I did the testing on the previous incarnation of a filtering product, the IWF list, in 2005. My report from that trial is still available from the InternetNZ website at http://internetnz.org.nz/issues/archive/other/INZ-IWF-CAI-report.pdf I'm happy to take questions and discuss the topic, and will also take points to the IRG where appropriate, but I'd suggest that NZNOG, while a good place for Tony to ask his initial question (remember that? "Which ISPs?"), is not really the right place to discuss the subject of CAI, filtering and censorship in general. To that end, I have posted an article on my blog and welcome any discussion there (http://tracs.co.nz/gripping-hand/censorship-and-the-dia-filter/). Cheers Mark Harris

The DIA filter is just a URL filter. The material in the list is meant to be only unambiguously child abuse material. It only deals with HTTP traffic. Nothing else. As far as we're aware there are no plans in DIA to extend it. We're still talking to DIA about the way it's governed and monitored. We did a paper criticising the approach which was released last month, I can give that to anyone who wants it off-list. Jordan Carter Policy Director, InternetNZ. On 17/02/2010 11:57 a.m., Florent Bouron wrote:

Am I the only one to spot that they’re going to use a /_Content_/ filter to actually filter URLs?

A content filter is able to scan the pages for offending material, when they talk about installing a black list of web sites.

And a content filter has got far bigger technical challenges than just filtering URLs and IPs ... or are they giving themselves the ability to deploy further and smarter filtering in the future?

*From:* nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] *On Behalf Of *McDonald Richards *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 February 2010 11:45 a.m. *To:* nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz *Subject:* Re: [nznog] DIA Filters

Out of curiosity does the NZ list also contain RC (refused classification) material or is it purely child pornography – or are people being kept in the dark about the exact contents of the list? Is it as useless as the proposed AU one which will only stop HTTP?

I guess you can say this is an issue close to all of our hearts (Aussies that is) at the moment - both because of the wasted tax payers money (what good is a filter that doesn’t work) and the ability for our government to censor what the public servants perceive as restricted content at whim!

Macca

*From:* nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wicks *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 February 2010 9:25 AM *To:* nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz *Subject:* [nznog] DIA Filters

I don’t suppose anyone is prepared to comment on If particular ISP’s intend to adopt whatever this is ?

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/NZ-s-filter-starts-next-mont...

*Tony Wicks | Network Architect Team Leader **DDI* +64 9 978 8328 |* **Mobile* +64 21 965362

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The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you have received it in error, you may not read, use, copy or disclose this email. If you are not the intended recipient, please let us know by reply e-mail immediately and then delete this email from your system. We shall not be responsible for any changes to, or interception of, this email or any attachment after it leaves our information systems. We accept no responsibility for viruses or defects in this email or any attachments.

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

-- Jordan Carter Policy Director InternetNZ +64 21 442 649 | skype: jordancarter To protect and promote the Internet for New Zealand

Where did you get that idea? The article quite clearly says that they use the Whitebox system from Netclean, here's the product page: http://www.netclean.com/eng/?page_id=30 "- http-responses is routed the normal way, the WhiteBoxTM sees only the http-requests." On 17/02/2010, at 11:57 AM, Florent Bouron wrote:

Am I the only one to spot that they’re going to use a _Content_ filter to actually filter URLs?

A content filter is able to scan the pages for offending material, when they talk about installing a black list of web sites.

And a content filter has got far bigger technical challenges than just filtering URLs and IPs ... or are they giving themselves the ability to deploy further and smarter filtering in the future?

From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of McDonald Richards Sent: Wednesday, 17 February 2010 11:45 a.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] DIA Filters

Out of curiosity does the NZ list also contain RC (refused classification) material or is it purely child pornography – or are people being kept in the dark about the exact contents of the list? Is it as useless as the proposed AU one which will only stop HTTP?

I guess you can say this is an issue close to all of our hearts (Aussies that is) at the moment - both because of the wasted tax payers money (what good is a filter that doesn’t work) and the ability for our government to censor what the public servants perceive as restricted content at whim!

Macca

From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Tony Wicks Sent: Wednesday, 17 February 2010 9:25 AM To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: [nznog] DIA Filters

I don’t suppose anyone is prepared to comment on If particular ISP’s intend to adopt whatever this is ?

http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/NZ-s-filter-starts-next-mont...

Tony Wicks | Network Architect Team Leader DDI +64 9 978 8328 | Mobile +64 21 965362

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